I only use it from time to time, and to be fair, some may not like the few misses for a pure archer build but for the utility that comes with having a CUN character I know id put up with it.
Archer stats: Cunning vs. Str/Dex?
Débuté par
Diamaht
, déc. 18 2009 05:34
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#27
Posté 20 décembre 2009 - 07:01
Kaigen42
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sinosleep wrote...
Off the top of my head you miss the 2nd persuade check on the bandits in lothering to get more money, you miss the check on Bodhan to get more money, you miss the check to get the green sword for free (at least if you go to redcliffe fairly early), you can't disarm annoying flimsly leg traps until later, your hit rate has to be garbage since mine is and I did it the other way around pumping dex first and MY hitrate is garbage, and I'm sure I can think of more. Some might not think those things are a big deal since the dollar amounts are pretty low and the green sword isn't the greatest thing on earth, but at early levels I'll take every last copper I can get.
Interestingly enough, I got the extra money from the bandits and the extra money from Bodahn with only 2 skills points into Coercion. I can't say anything about Redcliffe, though, because I rarely go there first anymore. And I have yet to find a trap I haven't been able to disarm (except for that one in the Korcari Wilds that I couldn't get my mouse cursor on). I have put two points into Coercion and three points into deft hands, but if you read the post you were responding to, you already know that. You can only get points into these things so fast (especially Deft Hands), and the game takes that into account, so I don't find myself missing anything.
I will admit that my hit rate is a low 68%, but it sounds like yours was similarly low despite pumping dex early. By the time that Dex adds up enough to bring your hit rate up, I'll have Song of Courage and Rally to compensate for my side, and once you have enough attack rating, you don't need any more.
#28
Posté 20 décembre 2009 - 08:20
Siven80
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I see the same thing with "just" 30 or 40 cunning too, early zones dont have huge persuasion check so you rarely miss anything. Same for trap disarming. I mean my mage never missed a persuasion check that i can recall and his route was shale area, keep, mage circle, redcliffe.
A lot of people when they talk about high cunning or high dex take these to the extremes and minimize other stats, which for rogues is absurd.
Fact is Dex and Cunn are important for Archers, though Dex is the more important of the two due to attack bonus it gains. Even if you minimize Dex and max Cunn with song of courage the attack rating and dmg from it wont be better than getting cunn to 40 for a main char(30 for npc Leli) and the rest into Dex. That way you a good cunn level and save skill and talent points in Coercion and deft hands while gaining superior attack rating thru Dex.
Its actually simple math when you know the the math behind SoC.
Tho this is one of the great things about RPGs is that you can spec your chars how you like, some will be better, someworse yet all still fun.
Personally tho i wish dex gave 1 full ranged attack point like it states ingame, that would help a whole lot as archer are indeed hurt in the attack rating department whichever way you go.
A lot of people when they talk about high cunning or high dex take these to the extremes and minimize other stats, which for rogues is absurd.
Fact is Dex and Cunn are important for Archers, though Dex is the more important of the two due to attack bonus it gains. Even if you minimize Dex and max Cunn with song of courage the attack rating and dmg from it wont be better than getting cunn to 40 for a main char(30 for npc Leli) and the rest into Dex. That way you a good cunn level and save skill and talent points in Coercion and deft hands while gaining superior attack rating thru Dex.
Its actually simple math when you know the the math behind SoC.
Tho this is one of the great things about RPGs is that you can spec your chars how you like, some will be better, someworse yet all still fun.
Personally tho i wish dex gave 1 full ranged attack point like it states ingame, that would help a whole lot as archer are indeed hurt in the attack rating department whichever way you go.
Modifié par Siven80, 20 décembre 2009 - 08:22 .
#29
Posté 20 décembre 2009 - 08:40
sinosleep
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Kaigen42 wrote...
Interestingly enough, I got the extra money from the bandits and the extra money from Bodahn with only 2 skills points into Coercion. I can't say anything about Redcliffe, though, because I rarely go there first anymore. And I have yet to find a trap I haven't been able to disarm (except for that one in the Korcari Wilds that I couldn't get my mouse cursor on). I have put two points into Coercion and three points into deft hands, but if you read the post you were responding to, you already know that. You can only get points into these things so fast (especially Deft Hands), and the game takes that into account, so I don't find myself missing anything.
I will admit that my hit rate is a low 68%, but it sounds like yours was similarly low despite pumping dex early. By the time that Dex adds up enough to bring your hit rate up, I'll have Song of Courage and Rally to compensate for my side, and once you have enough attack rating, you don't need any more.
kaigen, just like someone else did earlier in the thread all you are doing is proving my point. The max coersion you are going to have early on is 2, which is what I advocate using. What I am speaking out against is people who say "you save all these talent points from not putting ANY points into coersion or device mastery because endgame all that cunning will do it for you." Every example I posted is or the character that doesn't put ANY POINTS into coersion or defthands but has put every last skill point into cunning. I am FIRMLY in the middle ground here. I don't advise going all dex over cunning, and I don't advise maxing out coersion and devise mastery. What I'm saying is go somewhere in the middle. 40 cunning is more than enough for all the utility you need in the game, so long as you put a couple of points into coersion and deft hands. This allows you more points for dex and a higher attack rating while still saving you some points from coersion and deft hands
p.s. At what level was your hitrate 68%?
Modifié par sinosleep, 20 décembre 2009 - 08:49 .
#30
Posté 21 décembre 2009 - 02:57
Kaigen42
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sinosleep wrote...
kaigen, just like someone else did earlier in the thread all you are doing is proving my point. The max coersion you are going to have early on is 2, which is what I advocate using. What I am speaking out against is people who say "you save all these talent points from not putting ANY points into coersion or device mastery because endgame all that cunning will do it for you." Every example I posted is or the character that doesn't put ANY POINTS into coersion or defthands but has put every last skill point into cunning.
Sorry, it looked like you were responding to my post where I said I would be saving at least one talent point and skill point with examples of what I would miss, so I felt the need to clarify.
p.s. At what level was your hitrate 68%?
Level 8. I haven't gotten much further because I'm on my 4th playthrough and I've lost the zeal to soldier through the exponentially increasing load times on my computer. As a result, I'm just going through a couple of zones at a time.
#31
Posté 21 décembre 2009 - 03:02
Tonya777
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If you are on Xbox 360 and therefore DON'T have the DEX fix , does DEX still improve your accuracy on ranged weapons at least?
#33
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 10:50
Nuclear_Pony
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I hope it does, my bard / ranger PC is primarily DEX based. I simply can not stand all those misses. As of now, my Leliana and I (she is also bard / ranger) have respectively 67 % / 68 % (both longbows Falon Din's Reach / Marjolaine's Recurve). Seems it's pretty rough getting it any higher.
#34
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 02:22
shree420
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Tonya777 wrote...
If you are on Xbox 360 and therefore DON'T have the DEX fix , does DEX still improve your accuracy on ranged weapons at least?
Yes it does. Dex improves the Attack rating for every weapon in game, melee or ranged.
#35
Posté 06 janvier 2010 - 10:21
swk3000
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Frankly, while I like to hit just all the time like everyone else does, I have to go with a Cunning Archer build. For me, a Rogue isn't just about doing damage; they also need to be able to open chests and doors as soon as I come across them. If my rogue isn't toolboxing, then they're not doing their job.
There are ways to increase your Attack Rating. Here's what I can think of off-hand:
Far Song
Helm of Honnleath
The Felon's Coat
Silverhammer's Tackmasters
Andruil's Blessing
Key to the City
Harvest Festival Ring
You get a grand total of +26 Attack from having those items equipped. Taking Duelist first (on a PC Archer) gives you another point in Attack just for being a Deulist, and activating Dueling gives an extra +10.
Have a Mage cast Heroic Offense on the Rogue, and you get a varying boost to Attack. Having a Magic stat of 30 (quite easy to get) gives +12 Attack, and that can be done within about 3 levels of picking up either Morrigan or Wynne.
Have a Warrior keep Rally active when they have Motivate, and stay in it's AoE for a +10 to Attack.
Doing all of that gives a grand total of +59 Attack. All Rogues start off with a base Attack of 60 (according to the 360 version's manual), so that comes out to 119 Attack. And that doesn't include the fact that several Archer Abilities also increase Attack, as well. For example, Aim reduces Rate of Fire, but gives a bonus to Attack, and Master Archer increases that bonus.
And all of this without dumping a single point into Dexterity, or accounting for Fade Dexterity Bonuses.
There are ways to increase your Attack Rating. Here's what I can think of off-hand:
Far Song
Helm of Honnleath
The Felon's Coat
Silverhammer's Tackmasters
Andruil's Blessing
Key to the City
Harvest Festival Ring
You get a grand total of +26 Attack from having those items equipped. Taking Duelist first (on a PC Archer) gives you another point in Attack just for being a Deulist, and activating Dueling gives an extra +10.
Have a Mage cast Heroic Offense on the Rogue, and you get a varying boost to Attack. Having a Magic stat of 30 (quite easy to get) gives +12 Attack, and that can be done within about 3 levels of picking up either Morrigan or Wynne.
Have a Warrior keep Rally active when they have Motivate, and stay in it's AoE for a +10 to Attack.
Doing all of that gives a grand total of +59 Attack. All Rogues start off with a base Attack of 60 (according to the 360 version's manual), so that comes out to 119 Attack. And that doesn't include the fact that several Archer Abilities also increase Attack, as well. For example, Aim reduces Rate of Fire, but gives a bonus to Attack, and Master Archer increases that bonus.
And all of this without dumping a single point into Dexterity, or accounting for Fade Dexterity Bonuses.
