225 réponses à ce sujet

[SubAstris]

The Twilight God wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

What exactly about the presentation makes them unbelievable? It is set up, we know there is a controlling force behind the Reapers, we know TIM will be on the Citadel etc

It is not exactly on the word of the Reapers, it is the Catalyst, the creator of the solution in the form of the Reapers. And when you say "allow them to continue" what you really mean to say is that they will continue to exist not continue to threaten

No, your utopia and space god BS is just a delusion of Shepard's. It does not occur. You killed yourself and the Reapers won. The cycle continued.

The catalyst is the collective will of the Reapers. It is The Reapers for all intents and purposes. So when it says something it is the reapers saying something. You blindly trusted the word of your enemy if you pick anything other than Destroy - Fact. If you disagree explain how I am wrong. Did you pick Synthesis or control because you didn't trust StarChild? LOL.

You're Shepard was indoctrinated, chose Control or synthesis and doomed everybody. That in and of itself is valid. To think that anything positive actually came of it is invalid and delusional. That is the beauty of it. You're still indoctrinated right now as you defend your poor decison to kill yourself because a Reaper told you it was a good idea. LOL. You still think 1 guy can overpower all the reapers or that magic fairy light can alter DNA.. because the reapers said so. And even after the game is over you, the indoctrinated, died feeling like you did a good thing. Textbook indoctrination.

In my world they do, and you have frankly very little to say otherwise. What exactly is so BS about the Catalyst anyway? He might be wrong on some things, but that doesn't mean he is necessarily lying all the time. And as seen by the epilogue scenes, I didn't kill myself, I am continuing on.

The Catalyst is not necessarily the collective will of the Reapers, it is the controller of the Reapers. The Reapers doesn't equal the Catalyst, this is clear, and actually said in the dialogue.

This is rubbish, and the EC proves that, since Shepard does indeed have a life after Control and Synthesis. It is not about trust, it is about whether I have substantive grounds to say and know that he is definitely wrong, and I cannot say he is. The Catalyst's appearance is used as a twist, a lot of things we thought we knew at that point turned out to be inaccurate somewhat, and now that new information has come to light, new decisions can be made.

I would be careful not to use absolutes when discussing interpretations. It is alright to believe in IT, I don't. But at least come up with something better than ad hominems

[M Hedonist]

The Twilight God wrote...

And once again, I'll repeat in my posts that you obviously aren't reading[....]

Frankly, that's probably because your fanfiction is kinda boring. Spice it up with some crack pairings and character assassinations. Also, let some fanfiction reader like manwithoutabody (I've been waiting for weeks to namedrop him on these forums) read it. Then we can continue discussing your piece of fanfiction.

[SubAstris]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

You chose synthesis, didn't you? Lol

Control. 

You know that you cannot control them ? It was what thought TIM and look where he is now...

Have you ever heard of a twist ending? The reason that TIM couldn't control them is because he was indoctrinated. Shepard isn't, ergo he can control them. The fact that he can do so is shown in the EC

[M Hedonist]

The Twilight God wrote...

You still think 1 guy can overpower all the reapers or that magic fairy light can alter DNA.. because the reapers said so. And even after the game is over you, the indoctrinated, died feeling like you did a good thing. Textbook indoctrination.

But believing that shooting at some pipes activates the Crucible which in turn sends out a different kind of "magic fairy light" that destroys every Reaper in the galaxy (because "the Reapers" said so) is any less silly?

[The Twilight God]

Sauruz wrote...

But if you take Destroy you trust the Catalyst by his word. So the Catalyst can't be trusted except when he tells you to shoot at some pipes, resulting in the Crucible getting destroyed? That's ridiculous. Looking at this scenario logically, the most likely thing that is going to happen when you shoot at the pipes is that the Crucible explodes and nothing particular happens after that. What makes the Catalyst's statements regarding the Destroy option more believable and trustworthy than his statements regarding the other two options? Sorry, but your headcanon is just silly.

The Crucible was made by our side to Destroy the Reapers. That's what it does. I don't have to trust in the Catalyst that it will do what I explicitly came to do. If shooting the conduits didn't do the trick I wouldn't be dead and unable to correct my mistake and look for another way. There is no way shooting the conduits is going to blow up the Crucible. Might as well say it will blow up the Zakera Ward. 

The entire scene is absurd as none of the choices should be presented in that manner (since the Catalyst isn't expecting the Crucible), but that's what Bioware did. Which is why IT people think it has to be a hallucination as it doesn't make any sense along with everything else else after shepard is knocked out. Either we accept It or handwave it as ****** poor writting. Taking the later route the options, the only options we get are:

1. Do what the Crucible was meant to do; what you've come to do.
2. Kill yourself at the reapers suggestion to do something that you don't know the Crucible can do
3. Kill yourself at the reapers behest to do something that you don't know the Crucible can do 
4. Give up and let them win

Don't even try to compare #1 to the others.

Sauruz wrote...

Similarly, I can form statements why it's wrong not to take the other two of the Catalyst's options.

You can make any statement you want. Doesn't mean it makes sense. and only Destroy makes sense to a person who has overcome indoctrination.

Sauruz wrote...

You had the means to turn everybody in the galaxy into a cyborg before you and you didn't grant them that for no good reason. So, yes, your shepard must have been indoctrinated. What other explaination is there?

A good reason would be that I have no reason to trust the Reapers that it will turn people into cyborgs vs simply killing me and leaving the Reapers to continue the cycle unopposed.

See. You can make all the statements you want, but they are nonsense.

[M Hedonist]

The Twilight God wrote...

See. You can make all the statements you want, but they are nonsense.

Nah, I'll stop now. This thread gets enough nonsensical statements as it is with you posting in it.

[The Twilight God]

SubAstris wrote...

In my world they do, and you have frankly very little to say otherwise. What exactly is so BS about the Catalyst anyway? He might be wrong on some things, but that doesn't mean he is necessarily lying all the time. And as seen by the epilogue scenes, I didn't kill myself, I am continuing on.

The Catalyst is not necessarily the collective will of the Reapers, it is the controller of the Reapers. The Reapers doesn't equal the Catalyst, this is clear, and actually said in the dialogue.

It says explicitly that it is. It is responsible. Stop trying to paint it as some innocent  benelovent being. It is the butcher. It is responsible for all the deaths spanning millions of years. It's like saying Hitler was in charge of the ****s. He wasn't at the death camps so he's not a murderer. He's not the enemy. Give me a break.

SubAstris wrote...

This is rubbish, and the EC proves that, since Shepard does indeed have a life after Control and Synthesis.

The EC proves nothing. You CHOOSE to believe it reflects truth. As I have explained 2 or 3 times already. I'm not going to keep repeating myself. 
 

It is not about trust, it is about whether I have substantive grounds to say and know that he is definitely wrong, and I cannot say he is.

So you gamble everyone's life? instead of doing what you came to do? Sorry, there is no justification for this. If you don't pick destroy you are indoctrinated. Even if everything worked out and the Catalyst was telling the truth you would still have been indoctrinated. You still have no reason to make a 180 degree change literally minutes after you just denounced control. None of the reasons you just gave TIM against it have changed. Oh, except the reapers said you could do it. So it must be true and you're going to risk everyone's life on the word of the reapers. OK.

[M Hedonist]

The Twilight God wrote...

The EC proves nothing. You CHOOSE to believe it reflects truth. As I have explained 2 or 3 times already. I'm not going to keep repeating myself.

And you choose to believe it doesn't reflect truth. The difference is, you obnoxiously try to force your headcanon onto others.

[The Twilight God]

Sauruz wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

See. You can make all the statements you want, but they are nonsense.

Nah, I'll stop now. This thread gets enough nonsensical statements as it is with you posting in it.

At least you finally realized you are wrong.

[The Twilight God]

Sauruz wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

The EC proves nothing. You CHOOSE to believe it reflects truth. As I have explained 2 or 3 times already. I'm not going to keep repeating myself.

And you choose to believe it doesn't reflect truth. The difference is, you obnoxiously try to force your headcanon onto others.

I can't force anyone to believe anything. I have explained my position. What angers you is that my points are valid concerning trusting the reapers.

If we're going to go that route you are trying to force the truthfulness of the epiligues on me. Nobody is going to force anyone to think anything.

[M Hedonist]

The Twilight God wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

The EC proves nothing. You CHOOSE to believe it reflects truth. As I have explained 2 or 3 times already. I'm not going to keep repeating myself.

And you choose to believe it doesn't reflect truth. The difference is, you obnoxiously try to force your headcanon onto others.

I can't force anyone to believe anything. I have explained my position. What angers you is that my points are valid concerning trusting the reapers.

If we're going to go that route you are trying to force the truthfulness of the epiligues on me. Nobody is going to force anyone to think anything.

Alright then - you're allowed to your own opinion and you've made your point. It's your own interpretation of the endings and if you believe that rejecting the Catalyst means giving up, so be it.
One more thing though: Your interpretation is very different from IT and you've said yourself it isn't IT, so what does it have to do with the topic at hand?

Modifié par Sauruz, 21 juillet 2012 - 10:45 .

[SubAstris]

The Twilight God wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

In my world they do, and you have frankly very little to say otherwise. What exactly is so BS about the Catalyst anyway? He might be wrong on some things, but that doesn't mean he is necessarily lying all the time. And as seen by the epilogue scenes, I didn't kill myself, I am continuing on.

The Catalyst is not necessarily the collective will of the Reapers, it is the controller of the Reapers. The Reapers doesn't equal the Catalyst, this is clear, and actually said in the dialogue.

It says explicitly that it is. It is responsible. Stop trying to paint it as some innocent  benelovent being. It is the butcher. It is responsible for all the deaths spanning millions of years. It's like saying Hitler was in charge of the ****s. He wasn't at the death camps so he's not a murderer. He's not the enemy. Give me a break.

SubAstris wrote...

This is rubbish, and the EC proves that, since Shepard does indeed have a life after Control and Synthesis.

The EC proves nothing. You CHOOSE to believe it reflects truth. As I have explained 2 or 3 times already. I'm not going to keep repeating myself. 
 

It is not about trust, it is about whether I have substantive grounds to say and know that he is definitely wrong, and I cannot say he is.

So you gamble everyone's life? instead of doing what you came to do? Sorry, there is no justification for this. If you don't pick destroy you are indoctrinated. Even if everything worked out and the Catalyst was telling the truth you would still have been indoctrinated. You still have no reason to make a 180 degree change literally minutes after you just denounced control. None of the reasons you just gave TIM against it have changed. Oh, except the reapers said you could do it. So it must be true and you're going to risk everyone's life on the word of the reapers. OK.

It never says it is a Reaper. You can't deny that. I never said it was innocent, it was the cause of something terrible, stop with the strawman. To completely write it off before he has said anything is just a logical fallacy, ad hominem. You are missing my point, I never said it can be absolved of the blame.

Yes, BW spent 3 months on pointless dreams sequences for all endings, squandering both time and resources, having to spend ages planning it and reshuffling their other DLC around it, for nothing. Very likely...

It is not about gambling life. In fact you could argue that I am gambling with the Geth and EDI's life when I could just save them with the other options. Again you can't just say things in such certain terms, a story allows many interpretations.

You really need to explain further what you mean by saying you are still indoctrinated. The tables have changed when the Catalyst comes on the scene, yes you have been arguing against TIM, but the reason he can't get control is because he is indoctrinated, Shepard isn't. Just because he's the Catalyst doesn't necessarily mean he is wrong.

[Geneaux486]

So basically, I'm wrong and it doesn't happen because you say it doesn't happen. Gotcha. Well, when you explain why Shepard lost his balls and became a reaper yes man I'll consider your opinion.

You're wrong and it doesn't happen because the game says it doesn't happen. Go back and replay the ending if you don't believe me. Shepard makes a choice, then dies, then the Crucible does whatever it's supposed to do based on the choice you made, you see that play out, you see the epilogue, you see the scene thousands of years later, then you get the message saying "Shepard has become a legend by ending the Reaper threat." No indoctrination subplot is ever initiated or brought to fruition in that sequence, all three choices are seen through to the end.

And there's no ball-loss involved in choosing control, unless that's how you imagine your own character choosing it. As with most other revalations in the series, Shepard comes to learn that the situation isn't exactly what he thought it was. There are two other options that don't have the collateral damage of killing the Geth, so at that point you have to decide whether the Reapers deserve to die at the cost of your synthetic allies, or if you'd rather stop them in a way that doesn't involve their deaths. Once again Shepard has to sack up and incorporate new information into his existing strategy, as was the case with Legion's loyalty mission, the fate of the Collector Base, and so on. All three choices are acceptable ways to end the Reaper threat because that's how the story is structured, and since you didn't write the story, you're not in a position to pass off your reimagining as fact. It's that simple. Like I've said, I think the indoctrination idea is an interesting peice of fanfiction, but fanfiction nonetheless. This is the last time I will respond to this particular point with you. If you wish to discuss something else, I'll be more than happy to do so, but I don't need to prove an aspect of the game's story that is blatant, presented to us on the surface repeatedly, and literally spelled out for us after the credits.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 22 juillet 2012 - 12:24 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

IT is still potentially valid because BW will neither confirm nor deny it.

[I_eat_unicorns]

The Twilight God wrote...

I_eat_unicorns wrote...

I like the closure the ec dlc provided because it addressed the issues people had with the original ending (normandy escape scene, starchild logic). While they could have been better, I still appreciate the work Bioware has done. We see the closure of all the me2 squadmembers as well as the me3 crew at the funeral scene, what more do you want in terms of character closure? and trilogy closure is about stopping the reapers, which we see the effects of from the ending you choose. 

As I said in the post you you must not have read. The fate of the crew is uncertain and if you pciked destroy Shepard's fate is uncertain. Obviously your idea of closure and mine are two different things so I'll just leave it at that.

And again, you dissmissed my question and my statement about why applying the IT to the series at this point is impossible. For anderson, the chasms in the citadel were changing, that's how he beat him to the control room, not the beam. What does it even matter? You're overspeculating, the conversation between the illusive man and anderson was real, the reapers indoctrinated illusive man to stop anderson/shepard from breaking the cycle. Control ends the cycle as shepard can stop the harvesting, which the reapers didn't want, hence the delay using illusive man. 

And once again, I'll repeat in my posts that you obviously aren't reading (why am I bothering?) I am not an indoctrination theorist. I am not saying the entire part from Marauder shields to Credits is a hallucination. I'm saying that in the end some Shepard's were indoctrinated. It all happened, but at the end 3 choices are that of an indoctrinated shep and 1 isn't. You being indoctrinated and doomed the galaxy is a valid ending. It just doesn't actually turn out as you are lead )indoctrinated) to believe. You don't have to agree. I'm not going to convince you of anything. Just explaining my position.

If you choose to believe that the epiligue has to reflect what actually happens simply because it is shown that is your puragative. But as I said before they couldn't "indoctrinate" a player if they say "Haha, Critical Fail!! You chose unwisely". YOU have to believe in it for the indoctrination to be indoctrination even if that means lying to the player and showing bunnies and raindbows. They would have to keep up the delusion that those 2 choices are good and lead to good outcomes or else they would be invalidated by the playerbase. Refusal is the most honest of the indoctrinated "Reapers Win" endings. 

You're contradicting yourself and you don't even know it. You say you're not an IT supporter, but the only idea where control/synthesis were indoctrination endings CAME from the IT. Saying that you don't support the IT, but believing that depending on the endings the player chooses, he/she becomes indoctrinated is supporting the IT. 
 

You can believe anything you want if that's how you derive entertainment, and there's nothing wrong with it. But if there can be a "truth" about the structure of a fictional work it is that that which the author intended is the actuality. ME's writers do not intend IT to be the valid end. 

Modifié par I_eat_unicorns, 22 juillet 2012 - 01:13 .

[The Twilight God]

SubAstris wrote...

Yes, BW spent 3 months on pointless dreams sequences for all endings, squandering both time and resources, having to spend ages planning it and reshuffling their other DLC around it, for nothing. Very likely...

They didn't squander anything. They effectively indoctrinated, you, the player. You are still arguing that it's a good idea to kill yourself because the reaper king told you to. Not a waste at all. The control and synthesis endings serve their purpose in maintaining the delusion that you made a good choice.

It is not about gambling life. In fact you could argue that I am gambling with the Geth and EDI's life when I could just save them with the other options.

You're gambling EVERYONE else to save 1 race. And honestly, the reapers could be lying about all synthetics dying as well. All I know is the Crucible was created to destroy reapers and their alternatives could very well equal suicide and no one left to oppose them. If Anderson AND Shepard got there it would be a different story. But Shepard is it. If his trust in this AI isn't rewarded EVERYONE DIES. Nobody left to ensure the reapers were stopped. He can do what the Crucible is meant to do or RISK EVERYONE on a gamble that this thing that gives the reapers their orders is telling the truth.

This is Biowares fault. This is ****** poor storytelling and until they fix it Destroy is the "only valid non-indoctrinated ending. This is why the EC isn't enough. The entire presentation of the options needs to change so that it doesn't seem ridiculous that Shepard would believe this AI. Regardless of their intent, what they actually wrote dictates that Shepard was indoctrinated if he picks control or synthesis. You don't have to agree. It is what it is.

You really need to explain further what you mean by saying you are still indoctrinated.

Hmm, I'll have to explain this another way.

If the game had the Refusal ending after you choose control or synthesis would you still consider that your real ending or would you do it over and pick Destroy?

The tables have changed when the Catalyst comes on the scene, yes you have been arguing against TIM, but the reason he can't get control is because he is indoctrinated, Shepard isn't. Just because he's the Catalyst doesn't necessarily mean he is wrong.

And the tables have turned because? And you know this how? Ah, right. Because Catalyst says so. Again, you are blindly trusting the Catalyst. Shepard can do it because the Catalyst says so? The whole argument is what if he is lying??? So the Catalyst making claims isn't proof of those claim's validity. The issue isn;t that he IS lying. The problem is I don't know if he's lying or telling the truth. And i have no reason whatsoever to trust him. You're using circular logic. The Bible is 100% fact because the Bible says so. If the options weren't imminent suicide; if i could pick them and then see them out and then die afterwards somehow OK. But killing myself with no one else to finish the job if it doesn't work based on nothing but the Catalyst's say so. No. Not happening.

Modifié par The Twilight God, 22 juillet 2012 - 02:06 .

[The Twilight God]

I_eat_unicorns wrote...

You're contradicting yourself and you don't even know it. You say you're not an IT supporter, but the only idea where control/synthesis were indoctrination endings CAME from the IT. Saying that you don't support the IT, but believing that depending on the endings the player chooses, he/she becomes indoctrinated is supporting the IT.

I would have to believe it is all a hallucination for my views to be IT.  I don't. Now you may think my views are similar, but similar isn't the same as being identical.

Do I believe It is a valid interpretation of events? Yes. It assumes Bioware Casey Hudson is not a horrible writter and that the inconsistencies are intentional. And there is alot of evidence throughout that hints at the reapers being inside Shep's head throughout the game. But I'm not convinced that everything after that last Harbinger blast is a dream. I don't totally dismiss it either.

 

You can believe anything you want if that's how you derive entertainment, and there's nothing wrong with it. But if there can be a "truth" about the structure of a fictional work it is that that which the author intended is the actuality. ME's writers do not intend IT to be the valid end. 

They have never denied IT. They may decide to use it one day to make a ME4 with Shepard in it. Who knows.

As far as what they supposedly intended? I could care less. All I see is what they actually wrote. And what they wrote is 4 options in which 3 would only be picked by an indoctrinated person. It's the writers job to convey their intention. Not explain it over twitter. Twitter is not the game I'm playing.

[ZackG312]

OP if you want something to go away just dont pay attention to it. And what does it matter to you what others think what happened to Shepard.

[AlanC9]

So this is an indoctrination theory, just not the original indoctrination theory. It needs some sort of a nickname so we can shorthand it.

Modifié par AlanC9, 22 juillet 2012 - 02:47 .

[KevShep]

Geneaux486 wrote...

So basically, I'm wrong and it doesn't happen because you say it doesn't happen. Gotcha. Well, when you explain why Shepard lost his balls and became a reaper yes man I'll consider your opinion.

You're wrong and it doesn't happen because the game says it doesn't happen. Go back and replay the ending if you don't believe me. Shepard makes a choice, then dies, then the Crucible does whatever it's supposed to do based on the choice you made, you see that play out, you see the epilogue, you see the scene thousands of years later, then you get the message saying "Shepard has become a legend by ending the Reaper threat." No indoctrination subplot is ever initiated or brought to fruition in that sequence, all three choices are seen through to the end.

And there's no ball-loss involved in choosing control, unless that's how you imagine your own character choosing it. As with most other revalations in the series, Shepard comes to learn that the situation isn't exactly what he thought it was. There are two other options that don't have the collateral damage of killing the Geth, so at that point you have to decide whether the Reapers deserve to die at the cost of your synthetic allies, or if you'd rather stop them in a way that doesn't involve their deaths. Once again Shepard has to sack up and incorporate new information into his existing strategy, as was the case with Legion's loyalty mission, the fate of the Collector Base, and so on. All three choices are acceptable ways to end the Reaper threat because that's how the story is structured, and since you didn't write the story, you're not in a position to pass off your reimagining as fact. It's that simple. Like I've said, I think the indoctrination idea is an interesting peice of fanfiction, but fanfiction nonetheless. This is the last time I will respond to this particular point with you. If you wish to discuss something else, I'll be more than happy to do so, but I don't need to prove an aspect of the game's story that is blatant, presented to us on the surface repeatedly, and literally spelled out for us after the credits.

It also spells out that the story of shepard is NOT over when Bioware says that it is over for shep.

Catalyst kid:     Tell me another story about the shepard.
Grandfather:    Its getting late but, ok, one...more...story...

The last scene with the grandfather and the catalyst kid is not there to tell us theres more DLC about shep (because we already know that Bioware intends to make DLC that takes place before the ending).  It there for a reason and given that its the last thing we see ( meaning after the credits and the way the grandfather says it) means that it (DLC) happends...Post...ending.

Modifié par KevShep, 22 juillet 2012 - 03:49 .

[Geneaux486]

IT is still potentially valid because BW will neither confirm nor deny it.

 
"Shepard has become a legend by ending the Reaper threat."  The game itself denies IT, and has done so since before the EC.  IT, while interesting, was never valid.

KevShep wrote...
The last scene with the grandfather and the catalyst kid is not there to tell us theres more DLC about shep (because we already know that Bioware intends to make DLC that takes place before the ending).  It there for a reason and given that its the last thing we see ( meaning after the credits and the way the grandfather says it) means that it (DLC) happends...Post...ending.

You have no idea whether or not this is true.  The game tells us "Shepard has become a legend by ending the Reaper threat" post game.  That's as conclusive as it gets.  KevShep, you've spent no small amount of time pre-EC condescending to people who didn't believe in your bull**** theory and treating them like they were idiots for not "getting" it, so my willingness to argue the issue with you is basically gone.  The endings are real, you were wrong, suck it up and move on.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 22 juillet 2012 - 06:22 .

[G02Guy4Tace]

Its amusing how this thread went from a debatable discussion to quite nonsensical idea and comment bashing in such a short period.

Continue

[KevShep]

Geneaux486 wrote...

IT is still potentially valid because BW will neither confirm nor deny it.

 
"Shepard has become a legend by ending the Reaper threat."  The game itself denies IT, and has done so since before the EC.  IT, while interesting, was never valid.

KevShep wrote...
The last scene with the grandfather and the catalyst kid is not there to tell us theres more DLC about shep (because we already know that Bioware intends to make DLC that takes place before the ending).  It there for a reason and given that its the last thing we see ( meaning after the credits and the way the grandfather says it) means that it (DLC) happends...Post...ending.

You have no idea whether or not this is true.  The game tells us "Shepard has become a legend by ending the Reaper threat" post game.  That's as conclusive as it gets.  KevShep, you've spent no small amount of time pre-EC condescending to people who didn't believe in your bull**** theory and treating them like they were idiots for not "getting" it, so my willingness to argue the issue with you is basically gone.  The endings are real, you were wrong, suck it up and move on.

Ive treated no like an idiot. Ive been the one called an idiot ^^^^^ so get that right first off. Second, I was saying that it waits untill after the credits to show us the grandfather specifically telling us its not over. If there was nothing to it then it would not be there. However Ive been wrong about...

-Sheps voice in the catalyst(reason still unknown)
-Sheps eyes look like TIM's in control/synthesis (reason unknown)
- Just as anderson dies shep looks at a new wound that was NOT there before (this is where anderson was hit instead) and makes a point to show us(reason for this is unknown)
-Mako in the background of the breath scene(would like to know why)
-Dream music playing during the last 10 minutes(reason SEEMED clear before and now unknown to why)
-An altra sonic sound can be heard at times such as in the dreams( altra sonic sound is indoctrination in process as pre codex, reason for this us unknown as well)
-The first relay explostion was in sol but when we see the galaxy scene where they are all blowing up the first relay is NOT sol at all. Instead the first explostion happends in the same place as arrival(reason is unknown). 
 
You can see how many things point to IT so dont call me an idiot...Ive never called you that.

Modifié par KevShep, 22 juillet 2012 - 06:47 .

[Geneaux486]

Ive treated no like an idiot. Ive been the one called an idiot ^^^^^ so get that right first off.

While I shouldn't have called your theory "bull****" and do apologize for that, I know what I've seen. Our discussion is over.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 22 juillet 2012 - 07:06 .

[KevShep]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Ive treated no like an idiot. Ive been the one called an idiot ^^^^^ so get that right first off.

If you want to tell other people you haven't behaved in that manner then whatever, I don't really care, but don't bother trying to tell me directly, because I know what I've seen. Our discussion is over.

Obviously you think that having an argument is calling some one stupid then you need to rethink yourself.

Ive have been arguing with you NOT calling you an idiot. GET IT RIGHT! Good grief!

If you cant tell the difference then yes this is over but just to be clear I have NOT called anyone stupid! Somehow I dont think that went through the first time!