46 réponses à ce sujet

[EpicBoot2daFace]

I just watched the Destiny trailer for Dragon Age 2. It's still awesome, but I noticed something about Hawke. In the trailer, he looks like a real person. Not just the graphics because it's CGI, but the facial features are all convincing and look like what you'd expect from a modern game.

But then when I look at Hawke in the actual game, he looks COMPLETELY different. He looks more like a cartoon, and his facial features are almost completely changed.






It's a world apart.

After playing a lot of Origins, which I think has realisitc-looking characters, I find it difficult to go back to DA2 because they all (including Hawke) look so fake. It also hurts immersion. They have all this blood and gore in a cartoony-looking game. It looses it's effect entirely, unlike Origins, where it at least felt like it had a right to be there.

The really poor graphics engine doesn't help, I suppose. But that's a topic for another time.

Anyway, I hope that Dragon Age 3 is a return to form. A return to a more realistically rendered world and people within it. If I wanted a cartoony-looking RPG, I'd play Kingdoms of Amular!

Thoughts?

[Ophir147]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Thoughts?

I think there's enough light reflecting off of your Hawke's beard to power my house for a week.

And his beard and hair are different colors.

But yes you are right, for what that's worth, but everyone looks better in the trailer. It's an almost universal rule, as long as I can remember (and I can tell from seeing quite a few trailers in my time).

[Realmzmaster]

The same can be said for the trailers in DAO and other games. So what is the point? I did not find DAO to be any more realistically rendered.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 21 juillet 2012 - 01:44 .

[Abispa]

Morrigan and Leliana do not look the same in DA:O as they did in the trailer.

Actually, I'm ticked off about all the horse drawn carts we see all over the place in DA:O and DA2, yet we don't see a horse till the second DA2 expansion, and then only in a portrait.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Realmzmaster wrote...

The same can be said for the trailers in DAO and other games. So what is the point? I did not find DAO to be any more realistically rendered.

You don't think they look more cartoony in DA2 versus DA:O?

[Amycus89]

Trailers are usually (like in this case) CGI, they aren't pre-rendered in "real-time". Instead, as it is just mean to be in a rendered movie, they can usually let their computer chew on the rendering for days or weeks if they wish to. And thus they can use a huge poly-count, instead of using low-poly models with normal maps --> more detail.

That being said, I agree that the graphics in DA2 were horrible with its cartoony style. Even origin looks better. My guess it was largely because of the bad engine and them trying to make it run better on consoles. Why? Because cartoony characters require less polygons to be used, and we have all already seen the low-poly NPCs that stands around in crowds in DA2 to fill out the scenery. DA:O had NPCs that were just meant to fill in the backround too, but they didnt have less detail for that.

I don't really care if the rumors of them using the frostbite engine being true, but I do hope that they try to choose a better engine this time around and try to go for a "realistic" look. Heck, use the DA:O engine again, that looked 10 times better (at least on the PC).

They have said before that they want a "unique" look for their games, so that one can just see a random screenshot and recognize which game it's from. But that should be possible even with realistic graphics. Just look at the trailer (even if you can't make the game itself look QUITE as good as a CGI, one can get pretty close even in the current console generation), the characters and surroundings look real enough, but it looks pretty unique thanks to the design, and to a lesser degree, the lightening

[Amycus89]

Realmzmaster wrote...

The same can be said for the trailers in DAO and other games. So what is the point? I did not find DAO to be any more realistically rendered.

If you use some skin texture mods, you can make them look very realistic. DA:O is just "suffering" from bad textures, the meshes alone looks really good (apart from their giant hands).

In DA2 however, you have a lot larger problems than that. Aside from that the vanilla skin textures there are even more undetailed than in DA:O, the  meshes themselves looks very cartoony, not just the hands. They look like freaks

Modifié par Amycus89, 21 juillet 2012 - 02:36 .

[Realmzmaster]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

The same can be said for the trailers in DAO and other games. So what is the point? I did not find DAO to be any more realistically rendered.

You don't think they look more cartoony in DA2 versus DA:O?

Actually no.

[Realmzmaster]

Amycus89 wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

The same can be said for the trailers in DAO and other games. So what is the point? I did not find DAO to be any more realistically rendered.

If you use some skin texture mods, you can make them look very realistic. DA:O is just "suffering" from bad textures, the meshes alone looks really good (apart from their giant hands).

In DA2 however, you have a lot larger problems than that. Aside from that the vanilla skin textures there are even more undetailed than in DA:O, the  meshes themselves looks very cartoony, not just the hands. They look like freaks

I have zero interest in mods. If I have to use mods in DAO or DA2 to make it look as it should or better then in my opinion the original  artists and designers  have failed

[Amycus89]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Amycus89 wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

The same can be said for the trailers in DAO and other games. So what is the point? I did not find DAO to be any more realistically rendered.

If you use some skin texture mods, you can make them look very realistic. DA:O is just "suffering" from bad textures, the meshes alone looks really good (apart from their giant hands).

In DA2 however, you have a lot larger problems than that. Aside from that the vanilla skin textures there are even more undetailed than in DA:O, the  meshes themselves looks very cartoony, not just the hands. They look like freaks

I have zero interest in mods. If I have to use mods in DAO or DA2 to make it look as it should or better then in my opinion the original  artists and designers  have failed

That wasn't my point. The point is that  DA:O looked much more realistic. The meshes especially so, but the textures not so much. The latter is what I'm saying could have been improved there, but its also the only thing that would have been needed to be improved on the PC version at least (aside from the big hands). If you see that as them having failed, then fine, I'm not saying that you are wrong there. Only that they did the first part with the meshes right back then.

However, in DA2, you would have to start over from scratch with both meshes and textures, because it didn't look even remotely realistic -which was slightly intentional, since they dicided to go with a cartoony look. You can add retexture mods there to improve the looks, but it will still have that cartoony feel as long as the meshes remain the same.

[AkiKishi]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

snip...

There are all sorts of conisideration when making in engine cut scenes that are non issues with CG.

CG is always higher quality than the engine stuff. The gap has narrowed though if you look at FFXIII/-2 and the interactive in engine cutscenes.



This is a real time tech demo. But it still does not have to account for actual gameplay elements (yet) or interfaces awkward camera angles etc. The sort of stuff you need to make a game playable.

Even our beardy friend here



Is still not at max possible CG level , but he's definately not "cartoony"



And she's not far off the detail in the Ashes trailer.



Please note I resisted the urge to post "goofy" Morrigan just to make a point. But I am going to do it to show that CG is not always better than the game version.



You will find the bleach on the left as you exit the thread.

To address the OP while it might be what you could expect from a next gen game. We are not quite there yet. Although with reagards to realism Witcher2 will put DA2 to shame.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 21 juillet 2012 - 12:24 .

[King Cousland]

Agree completely with the OP, this is an issue I've brought up quite a few times. I'm not looking for Witcher 2 quality graphics, but there's no reason to stick to this cartoon-like style that saps the darkness and maturity out of the game. DA:O wasn't the best in terms of both graphics and art style, but I liked it infinitely more than DAII.

I really hoped that BioWare would return to a more realistic style for DAIII, but they've said they think they did an "amazing job" in an Origins to DAII art style transition, so I'd say it's likely we'll have another childish looking game.

[Fauxnormal]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

The same can be said for the trailers in DAO and other games. So what is the point? I did not find DAO to be any more realistically rendered.

You don't think they look more cartoony in DA2 versus DA:O?

No. At all. The art in DA: O bordered on horrible, as a matter of fact, and there was nothing even slightly realistic about it.

[Fauxnormal]

harkness72 wrote...

Agree completely with the OP, this is an issue I've brought up quite a few times. I'm not looking for Witcher 2 quality graphics, but there's no reason to stick to this cartoon-like style that saps the darkness and maturity out of the game. DA:O wasn't the best in terms of both graphics and art style, but I liked it infinitely more than DAII.

I really hoped that BioWare would return to a more realistic style for DAIII, but they've said they think they did an "amazing job" in an Origins to DAII art style transition, so I'd say it's likely we'll have another childish looking game.

This seriously makes me think you're about fifteen.  The art style of something does not have to do with it's darkness or maturity, and if that's enough to snap you out of the immerison, that's something you need to work on.

[King Cousland]

Fauxnormal wrote...

harkness72 wrote...

Agree completely with the OP, this is an issue I've brought up quite a few times. I'm not looking for Witcher 2 quality graphics, but there's no reason to stick to this cartoon-like style that saps the darkness and maturity out of the game. DA:O wasn't the best in terms of both graphics and art style, but I liked it infinitely more than DAII.

I really hoped that BioWare would return to a more realistic style for DAIII, but they've said they think they did an "amazing job" in an Origins to DAII art style transition, so I'd say it's likely we'll have another childish looking game.

This seriously makes me think you're about fifteen.  The art style of something does not have to do with it's darkness or maturity, and if that's enough to snap you out of the immerison, that's something you need to work on.

Of course it does. Perhaps not for you, but when something that tries as desperately hard as DAII to prove that it's dark applies a bright, clean, smooth and cartoony art style it just doesn't work. All That Remains is a prime example of a plot that screams out "Look at me! I'm dark, I'm gritty!", but the cheesiness of the story and the way parts of it were rendered due to the art style (i.e, when Leandra steps out of the chair) makes it laughable at best, cringeworthy at worst. 

[Chipaway111]

Fauxnormal wrote...

harkness72 wrote...

Agree completely with the OP, this is an issue I've brought up quite a few times. I'm not looking for Witcher 2 quality graphics, but there's no reason to stick to this cartoon-like style that saps the darkness and maturity out of the game. DA:O wasn't the best in terms of both graphics and art style, but I liked it infinitely more than DAII.

I really hoped that BioWare would return to a more realistic style for DAIII, but they've said they think they did an "amazing job" in an Origins to DAII art style transition, so I'd say it's likely we'll have another childish looking game.

This seriously makes me think you're about fifteen.  The art style of something does not have to do with it's darkness or maturity, and if that's enough to snap you out of the immerison, that's something you need to work on.

Why belittle them for their opinion? And another thing, what the heck is wrong with being fifteen? Art style for some can help with immersion, if an RPG is leaning towards a dark and mature theme shouldn't it reflect in its environments and feel? If DA2 was painted in nothing but brightness and rainbows, with every colour exaggerated in its extreme then wouldn't that make it a little hard to take seriously if someone was being drowned in their own blood... or something. 

It's a rather extreme example I'm aware, but I still think art style is a part of helping set the appropriate tone of a game.

[King Cousland]

Chipaway111 wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...

This seriously makes me think you're about fifteen.  The art style of something does not have to do with it's darkness or maturity, and if that's enough to snap you out of the immerison, that's something you need to work on.

Why belittle them for their opinion? And another thing, what the heck is wrong with being fifteen? Art style for some can help with immersion, if an RPG is leaning towards a dark and mature theme shouldn't it reflect in its environments and feel? If DA2 was painted in nothing but brightness and rainbows, with every colour exaggerated in its extreme then wouldn't that make it a little hard to take seriously if someone was being drowned in their own blood... or something. 

It's a rather extreme example I'm aware, but I still think art style is a part of helping set the appropriate tone of a game.

This. 

[Fauxnormal]

Chipaway111 wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...

harkness72 wrote...

Agree completely with the OP, this is an issue I've brought up quite a few times. I'm not looking for Witcher 2 quality graphics, but there's no reason to stick to this cartoon-like style that saps the darkness and maturity out of the game. DA:O wasn't the best in terms of both graphics and art style, but I liked it infinitely more than DAII.

I really hoped that BioWare would return to a more realistic style for DAIII, but they've said they think they did an "amazing job" in an Origins to DAII art style transition, so I'd say it's likely we'll have another childish looking game.

This seriously makes me think you're about fifteen.  The art style of something does not have to do with it's darkness or maturity, and if that's enough to snap you out of the immerison, that's something you need to work on.

Why belittle them for their opinion? And another thing, what the heck is wrong with being fifteen? Art style for some can help with immersion, if an RPG is leaning towards a dark and mature theme shouldn't it reflect in its environments and feel? If DA2 was painted in nothing but brightness and rainbows, with every colour exaggerated in its extreme then wouldn't that make it a little hard to take seriously if someone was being drowned in their own blood... or something. 

It's a rather extreme example I'm aware, but I still think art style is a part of helping set the appropriate tone of a game.

FIfteen year old was a number a plucked out of the air. Get over your butthurt.

Because they annoy me.

Your example is so absurd I won't even bother dignifying it.

[King Cousland]

Fauxnormal wrote...

Chipaway111 wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...

harkness72 wrote...

Agree completely with the OP, this is an issue I've brought up quite a few times. I'm not looking for Witcher 2 quality graphics, but there's no reason to stick to this cartoon-like style that saps the darkness and maturity out of the game. DA:O wasn't the best in terms of both graphics and art style, but I liked it infinitely more than DAII.

I really hoped that BioWare would return to a more realistic style for DAIII, but they've said they think they did an "amazing job" in an Origins to DAII art style transition, so I'd say it's likely we'll have another childish looking game.

This seriously makes me think you're about fifteen.  The art style of something does not have to do with it's darkness or maturity, and if that's enough to snap you out of the immerison, that's something you need to work on.

Why belittle them for their opinion? And another thing, what the heck is wrong with being fifteen? Art style for some can help with immersion, if an RPG is leaning towards a dark and mature theme shouldn't it reflect in its environments and feel? If DA2 was painted in nothing but brightness and rainbows, with every colour exaggerated in its extreme then wouldn't that make it a little hard to take seriously if someone was being drowned in their own blood... or something. 

It's a rather extreme example I'm aware, but I still think art style is a part of helping set the appropriate tone of a game.

FIfteen year old was a number a plucked out of the air. Get over your butthurt.

Because they annoy me.

Your example is so absurd I won't even bother dignifying it.

In other words you're butthurt at people actually having the temerity to have an opinion that goes against yours, so you're throwing your toys out of the pram. 

[Fauxnormal]

harkness72 wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...

Chipaway111 wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...

harkness72 wrote...

Agree completely with the OP, this is an issue I've brought up quite a few times. I'm not looking for Witcher 2 quality graphics, but there's no reason to stick to this cartoon-like style that saps the darkness and maturity out of the game. DA:O wasn't the best in terms of both graphics and art style, but I liked it infinitely more than DAII.

I really hoped that BioWare would return to a more realistic style for DAIII, but they've said they think they did an "amazing job" in an Origins to DAII art style transition, so I'd say it's likely we'll have another childish looking game.

This seriously makes me think you're about fifteen.  The art style of something does not have to do with it's darkness or maturity, and if that's enough to snap you out of the immerison, that's something you need to work on.

Why belittle them for their opinion? And another thing, what the heck is wrong with being fifteen? Art style for some can help with immersion, if an RPG is leaning towards a dark and mature theme shouldn't it reflect in its environments and feel? If DA2 was painted in nothing but brightness and rainbows, with every colour exaggerated in its extreme then wouldn't that make it a little hard to take seriously if someone was being drowned in their own blood... or something. 

It's a rather extreme example I'm aware, but I still think art style is a part of helping set the appropriate tone of a game.

FIfteen year old was a number a plucked out of the air. Get over your butthurt.

Because they annoy me.

Your example is so absurd I won't even bother dignifying it.

In other words you're butthurt at people actually having the temerity to have an opinion that goes against yours, so you're throwing your toys out of the pram. 

Awww, what a cute kid.

[Chipaway111]

Fauxnormal wrote...

Chipaway111 wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...

harkness72 wrote...

Agree completely with the OP, this is an issue I've brought up quite a few times. I'm not looking for Witcher 2 quality graphics, but there's no reason to stick to this cartoon-like style that saps the darkness and maturity out of the game. DA:O wasn't the best in terms of both graphics and art style, but I liked it infinitely more than DAII.

I really hoped that BioWare would return to a more realistic style for DAIII, but they've said they think they did an "amazing job" in an Origins to DAII art style transition, so I'd say it's likely we'll have another childish looking game.

This seriously makes me think you're about fifteen.  The art style of something does not have to do with it's darkness or maturity, and if that's enough to snap you out of the immerison, that's something you need to work on.

Why belittle them for their opinion? And another thing, what the heck is wrong with being fifteen? Art style for some can help with immersion, if an RPG is leaning towards a dark and mature theme shouldn't it reflect in its environments and feel? If DA2 was painted in nothing but brightness and rainbows, with every colour exaggerated in its extreme then wouldn't that make it a little hard to take seriously if someone was being drowned in their own blood... or something. 

It's a rather extreme example I'm aware, but I still think art style is a part of helping set the appropriate tone of a game.

FIfteen year old was a number a plucked out of the air. Get over your butthurt.

Because they annoy me.

Your example is so absurd I won't even bother dignifying it.

I'd try a different argument, but I can see you won't exactly be reasonable about this if you're going to resort to insults. Just bear in mind that perhaps others have a different opinion and that doesn't make it any less valid. 

[Fauxnormal]

Chipaway111 wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...

Chipaway111 wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...

harkness72 wrote...

Agree completely with the OP, this is an issue I've brought up quite a few times. I'm not looking for Witcher 2 quality graphics, but there's no reason to stick to this cartoon-like style that saps the darkness and maturity out of the game. DA:O wasn't the best in terms of both graphics and art style, but I liked it infinitely more than DAII.

I really hoped that BioWare would return to a more realistic style for DAIII, but they've said they think they did an "amazing job" in an Origins to DAII art style transition, so I'd say it's likely we'll have another childish looking game.

This seriously makes me think you're about fifteen.  The art style of something does not have to do with it's darkness or maturity, and if that's enough to snap you out of the immerison, that's something you need to work on.

Why belittle them for their opinion? And another thing, what the heck is wrong with being fifteen? Art style for some can help with immersion, if an RPG is leaning towards a dark and mature theme shouldn't it reflect in its environments and feel? If DA2 was painted in nothing but brightness and rainbows, with every colour exaggerated in its extreme then wouldn't that make it a little hard to take seriously if someone was being drowned in their own blood... or something. 

It's a rather extreme example I'm aware, but I still think art style is a part of helping set the appropriate tone of a game.

FIfteen year old was a number a plucked out of the air. Get over your butthurt.

Because they annoy me.

Your example is so absurd I won't even bother dignifying it.

I'd try a different argument, but I can see you won't exactly be reasonable about this if you're going to resort to insults. Just bear in mind that perhaps others have a different opinion and that doesn't make it any less valid. 

Fair enough ,but it MY mind it IS invalid, and I can say so. I can also mock it endlessly.

You're more then welcome to do the same to me, if you want. /waves.

[AkiKishi]

Chipaway111 wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...

harkness72 wrote...

Agree completely with the OP, this is an issue I've brought up quite a few times. I'm not looking for Witcher 2 quality graphics, but there's no reason to stick to this cartoon-like style that saps the darkness and maturity out of the game. DA:O wasn't the best in terms of both graphics and art style, but I liked it infinitely more than DAII.

I really hoped that BioWare would return to a more realistic style for DAIII, but they've said they think they did an "amazing job" in an Origins to DAII art style transition, so I'd say it's likely we'll have another childish looking game.

This seriously makes me think you're about fifteen.  The art style of something does not have to do with it's darkness or maturity, and if that's enough to snap you out of the immerison, that's something you need to work on.

Why belittle them for their opinion? And another thing, what the heck is wrong with being fifteen? Art style for some can help with immersion, if an RPG is leaning towards a dark and mature theme shouldn't it reflect in its environments and feel? If DA2 was painted in nothing but brightness and rainbows, with every colour exaggerated in its extreme then wouldn't that make it a little hard to take seriously if someone was being drowned in their own blood... or something. 

It's a rather extreme example I'm aware, but I still think art style is a part of helping set the appropriate tone of a game.

15 year olds should not be playing Dragon Age

[Fauxnormal]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Chipaway111 wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...

harkness72 wrote...

Agree completely with the OP, this is an issue I've brought up quite a few times. I'm not looking for Witcher 2 quality graphics, but there's no reason to stick to this cartoon-like style that saps the darkness and maturity out of the game. DA:O wasn't the best in terms of both graphics and art style, but I liked it infinitely more than DAII.

I really hoped that BioWare would return to a more realistic style for DAIII, but they've said they think they did an "amazing job" in an Origins to DAII art style transition, so I'd say it's likely we'll have another childish looking game.

This seriously makes me think you're about fifteen.  The art style of something does not have to do with it's darkness or maturity, and if that's enough to snap you out of the immerison, that's something you need to work on.

Why belittle them for their opinion? And another thing, what the heck is wrong with being fifteen? Art style for some can help with immersion, if an RPG is leaning towards a dark and mature theme shouldn't it reflect in its environments and feel? If DA2 was painted in nothing but brightness and rainbows, with every colour exaggerated in its extreme then wouldn't that make it a little hard to take seriously if someone was being drowned in their own blood... or something. 

It's a rather extreme example I'm aware, but I still think art style is a part of helping set the appropriate tone of a game.

15 year olds should not be playing Dragon Age

Meh, it's only two years under the game's rating; I wouldn't be surprised if they were. And most teenieboppers today are exposed to violence, sex, et. all through TV, other games, and movies anyway. :/

You know parents are buying their tweenieboppers and teenagers this game without even paying attention to the rating.

[Fredward]

Fauxnormal wrote...

harkness72 wrote...

Agree completely with the OP, this is an issue I've brought up quite a few times. I'm not looking for Witcher 2 quality graphics, but there's no reason to stick to this cartoon-like style that saps the darkness and maturity out of the game. DA:O wasn't the best in terms of both graphics and art style, but I liked it infinitely more than DAII.

I really hoped that BioWare would return to a more realistic style for DAIII, but they've said they think they did an "amazing job" in an Origins to DAII art style transition, so I'd say it's likely we'll have another childish looking game.

This seriously makes me think you're about fifteen.  The art style of something does not have to do with it's darkness or maturity, and if that's enough to snap you out of the immerison, that's something you need to work on.

You pointing out people's supposed ages in a vain attempt to degrade what they're saying makes me think you're seriously 12. Wanna point out my age now? <_<



I preferred the way Origins looked. I'm not going on a tirade and throw around words like "degrading" and "immersion breaking" but Origins looked better over all for me, the enviroments had weight too. And also, trailer Hawke is hot, game Hawke reminds me of my father.