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I dont even consier ME3 a true RPG


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#301
crypticcat 2o2p

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suntzuxi wrote...

NightAntilli wrote...

How people consider ME2 to be 'more RPG' than ME3 is beyond me. ME2 had no weapon mods, less weapon leveling, smaller skill trees...


This is actually very interesting. Mass Effect 2 has least RPG feeling but it's considered as the best game among the three. I think ME2 did it right and did it briliantly but pity BioWare insisted on bringing ME1's feeling back and the result is a mess.

edit: spelling


I love that aspects of ME1 were brought back, but I hate the weight-system. It is established that the hard-points in the armors are little ME-fields, rendering the weapons weightless in ME1. So, how come those hard-points are suddenly ineffective? If you look at ME2 and impose the weight on that, Sheppie should not be able to stand up straight at all! But 6 months after the end of ME2, all those little mass effect hard points are suddenly worthless.

Since the multi-player consideration answer is meta and the hard-point ME-fields canon through 1 and 2, what the FFF happened to them in those six months?

#302
Mr. MannlyMan

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NightAntilli wrote...

How people consider ME2 to be 'more RPG' than ME3 is beyond me. ME2 had no weapon mods, less weapon leveling, smaller skill trees...


Dialogue and choice. Those are the bread and butter of traditional RPGs.

ME2 is leagues ahead of ME3 when it comes to these.

#303
MegaSovereign

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Mr. MannlyMan wrote...

NightAntilli wrote...

How people consider ME2 to be 'more RPG' than ME3 is beyond me. ME2 had no weapon mods, less weapon leveling, smaller skill trees...


Dialogue and choice. Those are the bread and butter of traditional RPGs.

ME2 is leagues ahead of ME3 when it comes to these.




ME2 does have more dialogue options.

However, a lot of the choices you made in the previous games are validated in ME3. Without ME3, things like destroying/rewriting the Geth heretics or saving/killing certain people wouldn't be that meaningful.

Not to mention the post-EC endings. Love it or hate it, there are far more ending variations in ME3 than ME1 and ME2 combined.

#304
Terror_K

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JaegerBane wrote...

Somewhat. I wouldn't necessarily say that an apparent difference in age is equivalent to the Star Trek-esque species changes that occurred in Dragon Age 2, but yes, there was some discrepency between how characters looked.

That being said, any rational person would be able to tell they're the same game series even if the faces of a few characters are a little off. It sounds like you're *looking* for differences rather than reacting to them - if you're going to try and list all the stuff that didn't look how they should vs the stuff that did, the list is going to be massively skewed in the latter's favour, so I'm not sure where you're going with that one.

I'm not trying to claim ME3 is perfect - just that saying it's barely related to the others of the series is pure hyperbole.


What I actually meant was that it was a Mass Effect game, but only just. It has most of the same ingredients, but not in the right amount in the right places, and things that seemed to matter and be a focus in the original game just  aren't in ME3. It's like it's trying to distance itself as much as possible from the original game without actually doing it, if you can understand that. ME1 was at least trying to be an RPG and trying to give players the ability to roleplay the protagonist character, while ME3 just seems to want to be about TPS combat and telling players who Shepard is rather than letting them direct him/her anymore. Just about all the things they said Mass Effect was supposed to be about as a game originally just went away by the time ME3 came along.

And to be fair regarding your other main point, I wouldn't say a lot of stuff looked wrong in ME3 compared to the others. In fact, not much more than what I listed was. Most characters looked the same and were recognizable, and it still had the Mass Effect visual style with regards to architecture, ship designs, etc. But it just weirds me out that certain characters just looked so off and different for no discernable reason at all. I could excuse Bailey and Udina because with their stations, perhaps they put some some effort into trying to look younger, but Anderson just didn't look right throughout the whole thing, Oriana no longer looks like Miranda's clone at all and has a completely different facial structure, and Matriarch Aethyta looked absolutely nothing like she did in ME2, where she had a great design, and in ME3 just looks like a generic background asari. In a game that was already wasting time and resources on stuff that was largely superflous and/or unwanted, why didn't they simply reuse the same models they had from ME2? What is BioWare's obsession with unneeded visual retcons in the middle of their series' lately? There's just no consistency with BioWare these days. I'm not :looking for differences," and not
all differences are bad ones. But unnecessary differences that ruin immersion and break the consistency and integrity of the mythos, lore and style for no logical or reasonable reason are bad.

NightAntilli wrote...

How people consider ME2 to be 'more
RPG' than ME3 is beyond me. ME2 had no weapon mods, less weapon
leveling, smaller skill trees...


Again, as I stated, ME3 was technically a stronger RPG when it came to the statistical crunching side of things, but where it fell down was in the actual roleplaying and narrative side of things. So while ME3 might have been technically more of an RPG, ME2 retained more of the factors a lot of players prefer in their CRPGs than ME3 did, even if these factors aren't as defining as the statistical stuff.

I too was calling for more statistical RPG gameplay elements to return after ME2 pretty much watered them right down, and was happy when I heard that they were in ME3. But I wasn't expecting it to come at the cost of my choices not mattering, no longer being able to control or define my Shepard as much as I used to, an absolute complete focus on combat and the only thing really mattering being the biggening of some arbitrary number.

#305
Terror_K

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MegaSovereign wrote...

ME2 does have more dialogue options.

However, a lot of the choices you made in the previous games are validated in ME3. Without ME3, things like destroying/rewriting the Geth heretics or saving/killing certain people wouldn't be that meaningful.


They aren't that meaningful in ME3. Because almost nothing you did mattered. There was always either some way around it anyway, there was always somebody to step in and do the same thing whenever a character died in a previous game, and you were pretty much funneled down the same path no matter what happened. If there's no Wrex, there's Wreav. If there's no Mordin, there's Padok. If there's no Miranda, there's Oriana. If there's no Legion, there's still Legion anyway. If there's no Council, there's still The Council. If there's no Rachni Queen, there's still a Rachni Queen.

All that really mattered in ME3 was the raising of a stupid number. That's all we got after playing three games God knows how many times: make this number bigger to succeed. ME3 as a whole was a joke, and not a funny one.

Not to mention the post-EC endings. Love it or hate it, there are far more ending variations in ME3 than ME1 and ME2 combined.


Aside from the fact that those endings had to come as the EC rather than being in the vanilla game, they were still awful, pretentious, insulting, riddled with plot holes and contra theme to the rest of Mass Effect up to that point. These so-called choices had no bearing on what you did before beyond raising that stupid arbitrary number, and are still basically the same in different colours and all derived from a "magic Reaper off-button" we were promised wasn't going to exist within a year of the game's release.

#306
megamacka

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ZombieGambit wrote...

The only real difference between ME1 and ME3 is that the combat is more refined. Are you saying that good combat can't be in an RPG? Seems a little ridiculous....


  Are you.... wha.....What did I just read? Did we play the same game?
The world felt like small corridors go from A to B, NO real side missions like on ilium for example or for example the Quarian falsely accused of thievery on the citadel. 80% less dialogue choices, and the VERY few choices that you did get were bland and almost the same. Less ways of approaching situations ( talking yourself out of things etc ).

   Do I have to go on? Mass effect 3 disappointed me as a whole, not just the ending that most people seem to be bringing up. I think that ME3 abandoned way too much RPG elements in order to fit into EA´s anti singleplayer scheme ala '' every game has to have multiplayer ''. ME3 to me did NOT feel like a true RPG, I feel so very limited whilst playing that it makes me go all teary eyed, WHAT HAPPENED!?
   

  I sincerely hope that the DA3 team does NOT follow this same route. And if you honestly look at ME1 and ME3 and say '' oh they are the same, both have the same amount of RPG in them '' .... Please either get real or replay it again. Understand the cold truth, ME3 was a disappointment as an '' RPG '' game. 

  I am not saying that ME3 was neccessarily a '' bad '' game as a whole. But I felt horribly violated and disappointed by Bioware when I played it and realized just how much they abandoned and how they messed the RPG feel and the '' you are in a galaxy '' feel. No, shot them and go from A to B, a cutscene choose 1 out of 2 responses with a VERY few renegade/ paragon and with no REAL side missions making the game feel alive.
Sadly, this isn't new and the gaming industry is changing. They are trying to appeal to a greater audience by making Mass effect into a shooter with RPG elements, and it hurts. It hurts so very much Bioware.....

   Bioware can go all '' we wrote more dialogues for this game than ME1 and 2 '' all they want. But oh really? It sure as hell DID NOT feel like it. I don't call hearing my crew members or random people at the citadel speaking and then having to go to the elevator and back to hear them say something different ( and then repeating the exact same thing again and again and again AND AGAIN AND AGAIN ) for dialogue. Perhaps you should have focused more on SHEPARD AND MEANINGFUL CHARACTERS....

Modifié par megamacka, 07 septembre 2012 - 05:01 .


#307
ghost9191

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it is till you turn off decision making

#308
Phantom089

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It better than Dragon Age/Kotor Style types I'm not really interested in those much. Mass Effect is a awesom and wonderful series, game. :)

#309
Ghost

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All of the ME games are action RPGs.