308 réponses à ce sujet

[Pitznik]

jreezy wrote...

Terror_K wrote...
Squaddie's from prior games alive or dead? Doesn't matter, some weak substitute chump steps in and does whatever they did anyway, making their seemingly special nature and uniqueness redundant.)

Funny you should mention this, I found Padok Wiks to be a more enjoyable character than Mordin Solus, especially considering Mordin's character assassination if you supported the Genophage throughout Mass Effect 2.

If you supported the genophage, you can make Mordin change his mind.

[Fredvdp]

Allen Spellwaver wrote...

ME1 and 2 you can't do anything that really renegenda.More like you were making jokes.But in ME3 you can be a hardass and don't count the consequences.Although those scenes are in small number and just like you said you can't pretend to be nothing happened after Thessia's fall.But shooting Mordin really reminds me of those scenes back to old BioWare games for the first time after Jade Empire.

I thinkt hey outdid themselves with the ending of the krogan campaign, and right after that, you're dragged back into ME3 mode.

Shepard: "I'm mourning the lost."
Liara: "Anyone in particular?"

Then you can pick either "Ashley/Kaidan" or "no one in particular". Heck, Shepard! Heck! There are four empty slots on that dialog wheel.

I think you have enough control over Shepard's actions, just not his/her emotions.

[Allen Spellwaver]

Pitznik wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Terror_K wrote...
Squaddie's from prior games alive or dead? Doesn't matter, some weak substitute chump steps in and does whatever they did anyway, making their seemingly special nature and uniqueness redundant.)

Funny you should mention this, I found Padok Wiks to be a more enjoyable character than Mordin Solus, especially considering Mordin's character assassination if you supported the Genophage throughout Mass Effect 2.

If you supported the genophage, you can make Mordin change his mind.

Wait,does this need an imported save file in which you supported genophage?

[Allen Spellwaver]

Fredvdp wrote...

Allen Spellwaver wrote...

ME1 and 2 you can't do anything that really renegenda.More like you were making jokes.But in ME3 you can be a hardass and don't count the consequences.Although those scenes are in small number and just like you said you can't pretend to be nothing happened after Thessia's fall.But shooting Mordin really reminds me of those scenes back to old BioWare games for the first time after Jade Empire.

I thinkt hey outdid themselves with the ending of the krogan campaign, and right after that, you're dragged back into ME3 mode.

Shepard: "I'm mourning the lost."
Liara: "Anyone in particular?"

Then you can pick either "Ashley/Kaidan" or "no one in particular". Heck, Shepard! Heck! There are four empty slots on that dialog wheel.

I think you have enough control over Shepard's actions, just not his/her emotions.

I feel it's just a simple dialogue choice in which every options don't represent either R or P.But I admit it's pity that I can't say I'm all right,just go on to the bussiness.

[tanisha__unknown]

ME has always been a shooter/RPG hybrid.

[JaegerBane]

I've always been amused by how certain people get so bent out of shape about whether a given game is an RPG. Typically these same people are the same ones who subscribe to ludicrous idea that an RPG is only a 'true' RPG if they player's skill level is totally divorced from gameplay, which I've always thought sounded suspiciously like the idea behind the 'Interactive Movie' fad that was around 15ish years ago.

The basic definition of an RPG is a game that allows you to build and shape a character during the course of a story. The degree to how much you can shape your character, and whether the story is a linear written story or just a collection of open-ended quests depends largely on the design decisions of the developers... but they're all RPGs.

Mass Effect has *always* been an action RPG/TPS hybrid... its moved closer and closer to TPS over time, but while you still make choices, whether that be story, classes or skills, its technically still has RPG elements. Its like the difference in the way that Starcraft and Supreme Commander are both RTS while Sins of a Solar Empire is hybrid between 4X and RTS.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 21 juillet 2012 - 09:45 .

[elegolas1]

I think the role playing aspect of mass effect came from the player being able to shape the personality of Shepard, to a certain extent, through dialogue options. The autodialogue, removal of the neutral option and fewer paragon/renegade interupts of me3 (one of my biggest criticisms of the game) removed this aspect of role playing.

In place of this was improved combat customization: weapon mods, skill trees, armor and weapon choices.

The question is, which is more important to the fans? Combat or character?

[JaegerBane]

elegolas1 wrote...
The question is, which is more important to the fans? Combat or character?

I take it one step further and ask is it more important that its a pure RPG or the third ME game. Personally I'm less interested in what the specific genre is and more interested in whether it allowed me to play more Mass Effect, and conclude the story.

[Terror_K]

JaegerBane wrote...

elegolas1 wrote...
The question is, which is more important to the fans? Combat or character?

I take it one step further and ask is it more important that its a pure RPG or the third ME game. Personally I'm less interested in what the specific genre is and more interested in whether it allowed me to play more Mass Effect, and conclude the story.

I don't think that ME3 is a proper Mass Effect game at all, much like DA2 isn't really a proper Dragon Age game if you look at what Dragon Age was originally trying to be. ME3 just removes or cuts back far too much of what made Mass Effect Mass Effect for me personally for the sake of growing its audience, following modern trends and perfecting its TPS combat. Almost everything that made Mass Effect special, important, appealing and interesting took a massive back-seat for things I didn't really care about or sometimes didn't even want. The reasons I got hooked on the trilogy and the reasons that Mass Effect as a series, universe and style became more to me than just another game are almost non-existent come ME3.

It basically went from Mass Effect to Mass Appeal. And I've said it before and I'll say it again: ME3 didn't fail at being a game, ME3 failed at being Mass Effect. And it failed not because it didn't live up to its expectations and potential, but because the people behind it didn't even try to make it live up to them. Along the way Mass Effect's M.O. changed and it pretty much ruined the trilogy for it. Show me somebody who worked on all three games who can honestly say that this is where they intended the trilogy to go from the start and I'll show you a big fat liar.

Modifié par Terror_K, 21 juillet 2012 - 10:15 .

[MassStorm]

It is maybe strange on my side but i'm still having much more fun on playing ME1 than ME3. Probably it's because of the story and the style of the game....i don't know why....it feels more sci-fi for me.

[JaegerBane]

Terror_K wrote...
I don't think that ME3 is a proper Mass Effect game at all, much like DA2 isn't really a proper Dragon Age game if you look at what Dragon Age was originally trying to be. ME3 just removes or cuts back far too much of what made Mass Effect Mass Effect for me personally for the sake of growing its audience, following modern trends and perfecting its TPS combat.

That's largely because, for some reason, you've always believed ME to be something it isn't. That is no-one's problem but your own.

[elegolas1]

Terror_K wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

elegolas1 wrote...
The question is, which is more important to the fans? Combat or character?

I take it one step further and ask is it more important that its a pure RPG or the third ME game. Personally I'm less interested in what the specific genre is and more interested in whether it allowed me to play more Mass Effect, and conclude the story.

I don't think that ME3 is a proper Mass Effect game at all, much like DA2 isn't really a proper Dragon Age game if you look at what Dragon Age was originally trying to be. ME3 just removes or cuts back far too much of what made Mass Effect Mass Effect for me personally for the sake of growing its audience, following modern trends and perfecting its TPS combat. Almost everything that made Mass Effect special, important, appealing and interesting took a massive back-seat for things I didn't really care about or sometimes didn't even want. The reasons I got hooked on the trilogy and the reasons that Mass Effect as a series, universe and style became more to me than just another game are almost non-existent come ME3.

It basically went from Mass Effect to Mass Appeal. And I've said it before and I'll say it again: ME3 didn't fail at being a game, ME3 failed at being Mass Effect. And it failed not because it didn't live up to its expectations and potential, but because the people behind it didn't even try to make it live up to them. Along the way Mass Effect's M.O. changed and it pretty much ruined the trilogy for it. Show me somebody who worked on all three games who can honestly say that this is where they intended the trilogy to go from the start and I'll show you a big fat liar.

ditto

mass effect 3 lost the character of a mass effect game

[Pr3ying M4nt15 360]

To me, Role Playing Game means any game where the players takes an active role in shaping the experience to the point they feel connected to the game.

Mass Effect is not a hardcore strategy RPG. It's an action RPG that is trying to do something new by integrating tried and true shooter mechanics. It is otherwise no different from other Bioware RPG's.

It is true that Mass Effect 2 and 3 feel more shooter because their gameplay is more separated from the more story centric sections. But they are still RPG's. And you still have a lot of control over who lives and dies, over the dialog and how Shepard reacts, even in ME3.

In an ideal world there would have been more exploration (although exploration makes poor sense in ME3 from a story pacing perspective). But then it would have been better off with a different engine. As shown in ME1, Unreal 3 engine is not ideal for huge detailed and explorable worlds. A new engine capable of large and detailed worlds could bring so much to the Mass Effect universe in the next generation.

The only real thing I feel let down by in ME3 is that there are too many auto-fetch quests. I didn't like them in Dragon Age 2 and I didn't like them here. I want to actually talk to characters offering me missions not just stand there awkardly eavedropping convos and then go to a random planet and hit scan. Also being regulated to one hub world makes me feel less connected to the worlds I'm trying to save.

That and ME3 feels the most linear of the lot because you have less control over where you go next in the main storyline. They could have easily given the player the choice between dealing with the quarian / geth situation or krogan / turian situation first.

Modifié par Pr3ying M4nt15 360, 21 juillet 2012 - 10:29 .

[Akugagi]

RamilVenoard wrote...
The problem becomes, BioWare had to balance between storyline (REAPERS AHHHH!!!!!!) and RPG ("I do what I want, when I want, mothaf*cka!).

"I do what I want, when I want, mothaf*cka!" sounds more like the definition of a sandbox game rather than the definition of RPG. Honestly, why is it so hard to define RPG? RPG is an acronym, the definition of it is in its name, role-playing game. YOU, play the main character. YOU get to choose what he says and does, YOU PLAY a ROLE in the GAME, considering how heavily story based ME3 is aswell, even to an extent that some of you call it linear.

I'm expecting someone to reply with something like: "oh but you play a role in [insert a generic shooter name] aswell uuugghhh doesn't that make it an RPG then by your logic" no, I'm yet to see  [aforementioned shooter] being marketed as an RPG. I guess they can do that if they include decisions and conversations where you get to really "play" the role... not just by pulling the trigger. Sure there are the shooters that are marketed with "RPG elements" which are just the traditional customization, unlocks and leveling up.

Those "RPG elements" are just stereotypes of the RPG genre, everyone expects to see them in all RPG games as those seem to define what an RPG is today. The latest, successful RPGs seem to have set the standards for developers and what to expect from the game for consumers, which then leads to everyone forgetting what is "playing a role in a game".

Suffice to say, ME3 is an RPG.

Modifié par Akugagi, 21 juillet 2012 - 10:38 .

[Pitznik]

jreezy wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Terror_K wrote...
Squaddie's from prior games alive or dead? Doesn't matter, some weak substitute chump steps in and does whatever they did anyway, making their seemingly special nature and uniqueness redundant.)

Funny you should mention this, I found Padok Wiks to be a more enjoyable character than Mordin Solus, especially considering Mordin's character assassination if you supported the Genophage throughout Mass Effect 2.

If you supported the genophage, you can make Mordin change his mind.

Not if Wrex and Eve are alive, which they were my second time through the game..

If Eve is alive, you did NOT support the genophage. And Wrex alone doesn't affect Mordin's options.

Modifié par Pitznik, 21 juillet 2012 - 10:48 .

[Pitznik]

Pr3ying M4nt15 360 wrote...
The only real thing I feel let down by in ME3 is that there are too many auto-fetch quests. I didn't like them in Dragon Age 2 and I didn't like them here. I want to actually talk to characters offering me missions not just stand there awkardly eavedropping convos and then go to a random planet and hit scan. Also being regulated to one hub world makes me feel less connected to the worlds I'm trying to save.

If those fetch quests were made into ME2 style 5 minute side quests it would really add much to the game. I guess when game engine and graphics become more sophisticated doing such a neat little side quest becomes more work and more difficult. Shame

[res27772]

For me, I think while the first two had a lot of action, they also had a sense of adventure and exploration to them... with ME3 though that sense of adventure and exploration simply isn't there any more, it's almost purely action - that for me was one of the big disappointments of ME3.

[sartt]

I can Hackett wrote...

  I dont think im alone here but im in the middle of a Red Dead Redemption playthrough and im juist realizing thtat ME3 isnt even an RPG I mean not even close, IDK what it is maybe a hybrid between a 3rd ps and a rpg but nothing like me1, omg its just hitting me ...... what have they done?!!

cool story bro.

[Pr3ying M4nt15 360]

Pitznik wrote...

Pr3ying M4nt15 360 wrote...
The only real thing I feel let down by in ME3 is that there are too many auto-fetch quests. I didn't like them in Dragon Age 2 and I didn't like them here. I want to actually talk to characters offering me missions not just stand there awkardly eavedropping convos and then go to a random planet and hit scan. Also being regulated to one hub world makes me feel less connected to the worlds I'm trying to save.

If those fetch quests were made into ME2 style 5 minute side quests it would really add much to the game. I guess when game engine and graphics become more sophisticated doing such a neat little side quest becomes more work and more difficult. Shame

In fairness I think those sidequests took a backseat in ME3 to ensuring that everyone's love interest and potentially dead or alive character was covered to some degree in ME3. It's clear that the main focus was to ensure almost every major / minor character you'd ever met in the universe returned to fullfill a promise to fans. And even that was a struggle but they just about managed to represent everyone some way or another.
 
ME3 also probably has more overall main story content but because of the war situation it all tends to blend in more than ME2, the larger side quests (like Turian Bomb, etc) are in the main story missions really and tend to blend in. This can be viewed as both good and bad.

Modifié par Pr3ying M4nt15 360, 21 juillet 2012 - 11:05 .

[Langeman]

BioWare can do decent/good RPGs, and have done so in the past, so clearly that wasn't what they intended with the Mass Effect-series, maybe in the beginning with ME1, but as history shows the series became more of a shooter-oriented game.

So Mass Effect isn't mainly a RPG, and was never intended to be. It's a Shooter/Adventure game, where your choices have some effect on your surroundings/story-line.

If you want to play a computer game that is really close to "Pen and Paper RPG" play Planescape: Torment.

[Pr3ying M4nt15 360]

One things for sure. ME 3 ends without us ever getting to explore Palaven, or truely explore Thessia or Sur'kesh, and to a lesser extent Ranoch, and without us getting to meet the woman and children of all races. Without us truely being able to soak up their civilisations.

I want to come back at a different time in a new ME game and see what these planets would look like.

Mass Effect Trilogy has you always from a distance dealing with the overall threat. I really want to see a Mass Effect game that truely explores the universe indepth.

Modifié par Pr3ying M4nt15 360, 21 juillet 2012 - 11:13 .

[Sarcastic Tasha]

Fredvdp wrote...

I thinkt hey outdid themselves with the ending of the krogan campaign, and right after that, you're dragged back into ME3 mode.

Shepard: "I'm mourning the lost."
Liara: "Anyone in particular?"

Then you can pick either "Ashley/Kaidan" or "no one in particular". Heck, Shepard! Heck! There are four empty slots on that dialog wheel.

I think you have enough control over Shepard's actions, just not his/her emotions.

That bit really bugged me. My Shep had just made a renegade choice that had caused someone to die (I'm not being specific since this is the no spoiler section) so why was there no option to mention that person? Why the hell would Shep be thinking of Kaidan at that time? I'm not saying Shep should have been able to mention any character that had been killed at some point in the trilogy, but the option to mention someone that died in the previous mission doesn't seem like much to ask.


I definitely think ME3 was going for a wider appeal. It was obvious before the game even came out, what with all the talk of Kinect, multiplayer and the improved combat. Developers saying ME3 was a great place to jump into the Mass Effect story made me laugh, how can the 3rd game of a trilogy be a great place to start? There's so much that wouldn't make sense, so much missing context. I get that they want to sell the game to as many people as possible but aiming for a wider appeal runs to risk of alienating the fans they already have. All the games are doing it though, RPGs are adding more action and cinematics while shooters are adding "RPG elements" (usually just levelling up weapons and such). All the genres are bleeding together, I don't know why games can't stick to what they're good at. Do I want a platforming section in a 1st person shooter? No! I can't tell where my feet are so it never works properly (as Mirror's Edge proves, what an irritating game) and just feels like filler.

[JaegerBane]

res27772 wrote...

For me, I think while the first two had a lot of action, they also had a sense of adventure and exploration to them... with ME3 though that sense of adventure and exploration simply isn't there any more, it's almost purely action - that for me was one of the big disappointments of ME3.

As someone mentioned above, I reckon this is largely down to trying to balance the idea of exploration with the simple fact there's a galactic invasion going on. Realistically they're so far apart that one aspect was always going to suffer, and diluting the Reaper invasion to the point where exploration was going to make sense would have been a little anti-climactic.

I dunno - I miss the exploration aspects of ME1 but they partially only worked because your character (and the player) had so little idea about the galaxy. By ME3 you know virtually everything there is to know about galactic history, the topology of the galaxy and a deluge of info that were mysteries prior to ME3. As big a place as the galaxy is, I can't really see how they'd make further exploration (on ME1's scale) work without going down a different storyline path.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 21 juillet 2012 - 12:14 .

[AxStapleton]

Pr3ying M4nt15 360 wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

Pr3ying M4nt15 360 wrote...
The only real thing I feel let down by in ME3 is that there are too many auto-fetch quests. I didn't like them in Dragon Age 2 and I didn't like them here. I want to actually talk to characters offering me missions not just stand there awkardly eavedropping convos and then go to a random planet and hit scan. Also being regulated to one hub world makes me feel less connected to the worlds I'm trying to save.

If those fetch quests were made into ME2 style 5 minute side quests it would really add much to the game. I guess when game engine and graphics become more sophisticated doing such a neat little side quest becomes more work and more difficult. Shame

In fairness I think those sidequests took a backseat in ME3 to ensuring that everyone's love interest and potentially dead or alive character was covered to some degree in ME3. It's clear that the main focus was to ensure almost every major / minor character you'd ever met in the universe returned to fullfill a promise to fans. And even that was a struggle but they just about managed to represent everyone some way or another.
 
ME3 also probably has more overall main story content but because of the war situation it all tends to blend in more than ME2, the larger side quests (like Turian Bomb, etc) are in the main story missions really and tend to blend in. This can be viewed as both good and bad.

Whether all the the love interests were well covered is very debatable, also many popular minor characters got death by e-mail or twitter.