The results of some random weapons testing:
Reducing the animation time on a gun causes an animation glitch where the animation is not sped up, but rather it just cuts off half way through.
Any gun in the game can be given infinite ammo.
The stat Aim Error does exactly what I suspected it did: controls how much spread the bullets have.
An Avenger with a RoF of 9000 and 1000 round clip is actually incredibly amusing, and has you aiming at the roof in about 0.5 seconds from recoil.
Also I appear to have an Assault Rifle Thermal Scope for some reason. I don't know if Leviathan added it as a findable mod, but that's irrelevant because the character I do weapons testing on hasn't done Leviathan yet. The weight increase does not work, and the tooltip for it doesn't seem to be complete.
Were these mods supposed to be acquirable with Leviathan?
Weapons Stats Sheet - Updated for All Balance Changes
Débuté par
Cyonan
, juil. 21 2012 04:01
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#252
Posté 30 septembre 2012 - 05:01
Cyonan
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blaze55555 wrote...
That? It's a light turquious... and that's one color that I didn't change... and haven't changed... Now that you mention it, though... it is awefully bright; I'll try coming up with a more dull, light color.
In case you've never taken art, there are 2 things that are different but important:
(My art is limited to 2 years of Middle School and 4 years in High School... 6 years, but in Middle and High School)
I forget the term for this, but general lightness or darkness; If you take an original color and add white, it makes it a tint, if you add black, it makes it a shade, and if you add a grey of any sort, it makes it a tone. Adding white makes it lighter, and tints are what I'm going for - easier to see. I may be going for tones, though; lighter tones.
The other is Brightness; The more pure a color is, the brighter it is; inversely, if a color is less 'bright' it is duller. To dull a color, you add the compliment of said color. Too long looking at too bright of colors gives one a headache, especially when there is a mixture of multiple very bright primary/sencondary colors.I'm trying to make the colors clear, not too bright, and light. All help is appreciated, b/c unfortunately, unlike with paints, I'm bad with the 'weird' color palettes I'm working with. I'm not that good with paints, either.
I also have a kind of overhaul formatting change I will run by you. I'm just deciding on some 'finalized' details.
I took a small bit of art, and I used to work in the paint department at a store. Most of the time in my job if I to design though, I just have a website that I can put a colour into and I can set it up so it gives me a list of colours that go well with it.
I'll see what I can come up with, and wait for the overhaul changes you're coming up with.
#253
Posté 01 octobre 2012 - 02:32
blaze55555
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I'm primarily looking for feedback, suggestions, and opinion on this overhaul idea. I'm thinking about doing it, but I'm not thinking that I, guaranteed, WILL be doing it.
So, the general idea behind my change suggestion is:
Currently, all weapons now have the same 6 damage/weight rows, then 8 non-changing (reload duration, reload cancel, RoF, Shots per Burst, projectiles, etc.) stats, then 6 rows of ideal DPS stats, and then the 3 protection-type multiplier roles.
They all also share the same rows of accuracy stats. A lot of which aren't exactly all that clear...
Beyond that, the sniper rifles rightly have the hipfire stat rows.
And on top of that we have:
No extra rows in the SMG category; except in SP sheets.
Thor Damage multiplier, Thor Recoil Multiplier, Minimum Charge Time, Maximum Charge Time in the HP category.
Minimum Refire Time, Minimum Rate of Fire, Fully Charged Time (Rate of Fire), Damage Modifier, Prothean Damage Modifier, Heat Up Time (Damage Modifiers), Armor Piercing, Distance Penetrated in the AR category.
First Hit Damage (GPS), Second Hit Damage (GPS), Third Hit Damage (only applies to GPS, but is important), Minimum Charge Damage, Minimum Charge Time, Maximum Charge Time, Distance Penetrated (meters), Direct Damage Percent (Is this worth keeping?), DOT Duration (Is this worth keeping?) in the Shotgun Category
~and~
Direct Damage Proportion, Kishock Damage Multiplier, Kishock Recoil Multiplier, Maximum Charge Time, Minimum Charge Time, Not Regular Weapon, Distance Penetrated in the Sniper Rifle category.
SMG category doesn't even have a damage multiplier category and a charge-up time, even though they could use it for the GPSMG.
My suggested change is to universalize the stat names and consolidate. The new stats would fall under the light-turquoise background format - stats relevant to DPS and general 'experience' in handling the gun. In AR's the "Prothean Damage Modifier" (which is SOLELY relevant to the PPR, which, by the way, could rather use the other damage modifier stat row just as well for the purposes for the data sheet) could easily use the other stat row "Damage Modifier" that the Typhoon and co. use instead.
The same universal (I count ~16 potential stats that could be added) rows would be added to the sheet for all weapon classes; either below the first 23 rows of data, or below the white row block of accuracy stats.
The stats are all stats that can, are, or will be used for some gun in each of the categories. Some stats are used for some guns but aren't on the sheet (GPSMG charge stat and charge-time?)
The stats I am considering are (Names aren't final, I want them to be clear and intuitive):
In making this list, I thought of a couple extras that weren't on my original list (hence why there should be more than 16 new stat ideas up there) - I think you can see what I mean by "finalized details" in the previous post ~ The details are anything but finalized, but I'm looking for feedback, now, on all of this. Just a yay/nay if you like the idea overall, potentially copy my list, delete the details for each specific stat and put a for/against next to each stat name so I can see which you don't like. If you like them, I will gladly do the overhaul and put these in and convert the sheet from using the current cells/rows/set-up to using these stats and I'd make a decision as to whether they go above or below the accuracy stat rows.
one added benefit: We might be able to put in a standard DPS with these stats for ALL weapons - Simply do a max damage/clip divided by the full duration of the clip ~ the general formula for burst-fire-based guns, which, with all of the guns now having these rows of universal stat names, we could potentially come up with a formula that works everywhere. On guns without a Min Refire time, it could be set up to have the Refire Time =60/RoFstat or if the Standard Refire Time stat were included, for those guns, it could be set up to automatically be a cell reference to that stat, unless you otherwise type in a unique/special stat.
The formula could be:
{ Damage per Projectile (Snap Fire) * Projectiles per Shot * Bullets per Clip } / { Minimum Fire Delay Duration + {(Magazine - (Magazine / Bursts per Magazine)) * (Standard Refire Time (60/RoF))} + {(Magazine / Bursts per Magazine) * (Minimum Refire Time (=either the SRT or a unique number put in manually)} }
Uniquely for the PPR, GPSMG, Typhoon, and Striker, the formula wouldn't work, but a new one could be formulated which takes, when the full clip is fired in a non-stop trigger-pull, the number of bullets fired without the damage multiplier * base damage + charged damage * number of bullets fired with the multiplier (e.g. 4 w/o and 48 w/ for Typhoon) / unique formula which determines how many seconds it takes to deplete the clip.
Afterthought: Direct/Instant Damage Proportion/Multiplier could be an added stat in the future if more gun classes have a bleed damage effect like the Kishock; Additionally, A Bleed/DoT Damage Proportion/Multiplier stat along with a Bleed/DoT Duration stat would need to be added.
I still believe some stats should remain class-specific if it is not seen in at least 2 separate weapon categories; no need to drag around a stat/mechanic when nothing else uses it. Some classes for some time should leave off some of the stats; The SMG's could be the only weapon class to have the "Ammo Consumed per Shot" stat until it otherwise becomes universal, and same for Kishock Bleed Mechanic stats.
More potential after-thought Stats:
AoE Damage (Boolean-value, TRUE/FALSE entry to determine if a weapon has a radius of impact)
AoE Radius (For the Krysae, Falcon, Scorpion, Striker and any other AoE weapon I've missed)
Can Get Headshots/Headshot Capable (Boolean-value, TRUE/FALSE entry to determine if a weapon can score a headshot - Kishock is unique iirc - it can get headshots and headshot damage, but cannot score headshot kills for the purposes of medals; The GPSg cannot score any extra headshot damage at all last I checked)
HeadShot Damage Multiplier/Base Modifier (2.5 for most weapons, 3 for Kishock and Graal last I checked, and N/A for any weapon which can't score a headshot)
If we put this overhaul in, I could write up a single list post which defines all stats on the sheet and their purpose, and you could make a link in the OP which says "Stat Name Legend/Key" which links to my post. I'd be willing to make the post to save you some work, too.
I think I'm finally done writing! (typing, but w/e!) omg I write (type, but who cares! Obviously I do!) too much.
So, the general idea behind my change suggestion is:
Currently, all weapons now have the same 6 damage/weight rows, then 8 non-changing (reload duration, reload cancel, RoF, Shots per Burst, projectiles, etc.) stats, then 6 rows of ideal DPS stats, and then the 3 protection-type multiplier roles.
They all also share the same rows of accuracy stats. A lot of which aren't exactly all that clear...
Beyond that, the sniper rifles rightly have the hipfire stat rows.
And on top of that we have:
No extra rows in the SMG category; except in SP sheets.
Thor Damage multiplier, Thor Recoil Multiplier, Minimum Charge Time, Maximum Charge Time in the HP category.
Minimum Refire Time, Minimum Rate of Fire, Fully Charged Time (Rate of Fire), Damage Modifier, Prothean Damage Modifier, Heat Up Time (Damage Modifiers), Armor Piercing, Distance Penetrated in the AR category.
First Hit Damage (GPS), Second Hit Damage (GPS), Third Hit Damage (only applies to GPS, but is important), Minimum Charge Damage, Minimum Charge Time, Maximum Charge Time, Distance Penetrated (meters), Direct Damage Percent (Is this worth keeping?), DOT Duration (Is this worth keeping?) in the Shotgun Category
~and~
Direct Damage Proportion, Kishock Damage Multiplier, Kishock Recoil Multiplier, Maximum Charge Time, Minimum Charge Time, Not Regular Weapon, Distance Penetrated in the Sniper Rifle category.
SMG category doesn't even have a damage multiplier category and a charge-up time, even though they could use it for the GPSMG.
My suggested change is to universalize the stat names and consolidate. The new stats would fall under the light-turquoise background format - stats relevant to DPS and general 'experience' in handling the gun. In AR's the "Prothean Damage Modifier" (which is SOLELY relevant to the PPR, which, by the way, could rather use the other damage modifier stat row just as well for the purposes for the data sheet) could easily use the other stat row "Damage Modifier" that the Typhoon and co. use instead.
The same universal (I count ~16 potential stats that could be added) rows would be added to the sheet for all weapon classes; either below the first 23 rows of data, or below the white row block of accuracy stats.
The stats are all stats that can, are, or will be used for some gun in each of the categories. Some stats are used for some guns but aren't on the sheet (GPSMG charge stat and charge-time?)
The stats I am considering are (Names aren't final, I want them to be clear and intuitive):
- Minimum (Charge) Damage Multiplier (ex. 0.45 for GPSg or 1.00 for Kishock ~ Might be 0.67 for Kishock due to the bleed damage effect)
- Proportional Damage Multiplier (A maximum damage multiplier that some guns have - Kishock and GPSg have this kind of charge that is constant through the full charge duration)
- "Boolean" Damage Multiplier (A kind of multiplier that the Typhoon, PPR, GPSMG and co. have - it is either active or it isn't; Graal and Arc Pistol have it, too)
- Minimum Refire Time (Additional: Standard Refire Time? - SRT is always "=60/RoF")
- (Minimum) (Fire Delay) (Charge) (Time/Duration) ~ (I'm still trying to come up with an intuitive name for this stat, but it applies to guns like the Acolyte, Javelin, Reegar, etc. guns with a duration you have to wait to charge the gun before it even fires)
- Minimum Charge Time/Duration (Applicable in any weapon class with a charge-able weapon - which all weapon classes have - GPSMG, Acolyte/Arc Pistol, Typhoon/PPR, Graal/GPSg, Kishock)
- Maximum Charge Time/Duration (As above)
- Recoil Multiplier (Occasionally useful)
- Minimum RoF (Either N/A for most guns or simply use an equation which turns it into a cell reference for the regular RoF for weapons this doesn't apply to - would apply to Typhoon, GPSMG, Striker, etc.)
- Ammo Consumed Per Shot (Only applies to Hurricane Currently - could leave it off to keep wall of text smaller, and leave the hurricane with the ** key reference/note; also, could be left off of the universal stat list, and only be put in underneath this list of universal stats just in the SMG's category)
- Ammo Consumption Multiplier (Applies to GPSg - Does it apply to the Arc pistol? I'm still confused on exactly what happens when you spam the trigger vs. when you charge shots)
- RoF "Charge" Time/Duration (For weapons with a 'Min RoF' that is different from their 'RoF' (max) stat - iffy on the name)
- Armor Piercing (Currently broken ingame and only applies to the Typhoon ~ We could leave it off until it works in the future)
- Innate Distance Penetrated (A lot of guns currently have this - Primarily in the Sniper Rifle category, but at least 1 Sg and 1 AR have this mechanics off the top of my head; I'm conflicted whether the default entry for guns without innate penetration mechanics should be None, N/A, or 0.00 - Opinions? Additionally, The Kishock should always have "Guardian Shields" in this category, as that is the only thing it can ~penetrate (it's theorized to not be penetrating, but simply the projectile size))
- Can Penetrate (A boolean-value, TRUE/FALSE row - relevant to any gun with unique projectiles fired - GPSg, Kishock, Graal, Acolyte, Arc Pistol? GPSMG? Highly useful to those reading b/c they can determine if penetration/AP mods are worthwhile. I believe every unique-projectile gun in the game has been tested to prove that they cannot penetrate, but conversely, to make up for that, ignore armor DR, so the AP/Shredder mods/ammo are absolutely useless compared to alternatives; Penetration Capable? Alternative stat name meant to sound all technical-like?)
- Charge-Based Weapon (Another boolean-value stat, TRUE/FALSE, so people know what kind of mechanics they're dealing with when they handle the gun, ofc, there are different types of chargeable weapons (Proportional/Continuous/Boolean) but overall, knowing you're dealing with a weapon that needs some time if you want to abuse the full potential can be important in whether or not you make the decision to use it)
- Sustained/Indefinite-Charge Weapon (Another potential Boolean-value stat - weapons like the Acolyte, Graal, GPSg, and Kishock, etc. can be charged before you even are ready to fire them and held indefinitely until you see an enemy you wanna shoot; this could be relevant to any chargeable weapon as to how they handle - Guns like the Typhoon, PPR, GPSMG, Javelin, Reegar, etc. which are different breeds of charge-based weapons would be TRUE for chargeable weapons, but FALSE for this - gives a look into how the guns handle; N/A for non-charge-able weapons)
In making this list, I thought of a couple extras that weren't on my original list (hence why there should be more than 16 new stat ideas up there) - I think you can see what I mean by "finalized details" in the previous post ~ The details are anything but finalized, but I'm looking for feedback, now, on all of this. Just a yay/nay if you like the idea overall, potentially copy my list, delete the details for each specific stat and put a for/against next to each stat name so I can see which you don't like. If you like them, I will gladly do the overhaul and put these in and convert the sheet from using the current cells/rows/set-up to using these stats and I'd make a decision as to whether they go above or below the accuracy stat rows.
one added benefit: We might be able to put in a standard DPS with these stats for ALL weapons - Simply do a max damage/clip divided by the full duration of the clip ~ the general formula for burst-fire-based guns, which, with all of the guns now having these rows of universal stat names, we could potentially come up with a formula that works everywhere. On guns without a Min Refire time, it could be set up to have the Refire Time =60/RoFstat or if the Standard Refire Time stat were included, for those guns, it could be set up to automatically be a cell reference to that stat, unless you otherwise type in a unique/special stat.
The formula could be:
{ Damage per Projectile (Snap Fire) * Projectiles per Shot * Bullets per Clip } / { Minimum Fire Delay Duration + {(Magazine - (Magazine / Bursts per Magazine)) * (Standard Refire Time (60/RoF))} + {(Magazine / Bursts per Magazine) * (Minimum Refire Time (=either the SRT or a unique number put in manually)} }
Uniquely for the PPR, GPSMG, Typhoon, and Striker, the formula wouldn't work, but a new one could be formulated which takes, when the full clip is fired in a non-stop trigger-pull, the number of bullets fired without the damage multiplier * base damage + charged damage * number of bullets fired with the multiplier (e.g. 4 w/o and 48 w/ for Typhoon) / unique formula which determines how many seconds it takes to deplete the clip.
Afterthought: Direct/Instant Damage Proportion/Multiplier could be an added stat in the future if more gun classes have a bleed damage effect like the Kishock; Additionally, A Bleed/DoT Damage Proportion/Multiplier stat along with a Bleed/DoT Duration stat would need to be added.
I still believe some stats should remain class-specific if it is not seen in at least 2 separate weapon categories; no need to drag around a stat/mechanic when nothing else uses it. Some classes for some time should leave off some of the stats; The SMG's could be the only weapon class to have the "Ammo Consumed per Shot" stat until it otherwise becomes universal, and same for Kishock Bleed Mechanic stats.
More potential after-thought Stats:
AoE Damage (Boolean-value, TRUE/FALSE entry to determine if a weapon has a radius of impact)
AoE Radius (For the Krysae, Falcon, Scorpion, Striker and any other AoE weapon I've missed)
Can Get Headshots/Headshot Capable (Boolean-value, TRUE/FALSE entry to determine if a weapon can score a headshot - Kishock is unique iirc - it can get headshots and headshot damage, but cannot score headshot kills for the purposes of medals; The GPSg cannot score any extra headshot damage at all last I checked)
HeadShot Damage Multiplier/Base Modifier (2.5 for most weapons, 3 for Kishock and Graal last I checked, and N/A for any weapon which can't score a headshot)
If we put this overhaul in, I could write up a single list post which defines all stats on the sheet and their purpose, and you could make a link in the OP which says "Stat Name Legend/Key" which links to my post. I'd be willing to make the post to save you some work, too.
I think I'm finally done writing! (typing, but w/e!) omg I write (type, but who cares! Obviously I do!) too much.
Modifié par blaze55555, 01 octobre 2012 - 04:11 .
#254
Posté 02 octobre 2012 - 06:56
KyreneZA
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Something is up with the PPR:
I only have FRAPS (30 second capture) and AVS Video Editor to work with, but I got the following results via frame comparisons:
Using PPR with standard clip (100) against the wall on Condor
1st Volley
Start Firing @ 0.494s
Clip Empty @ 5.312s
2nd Volley
Start Firing @ 12.339s
Stop at 1 @ 17.085s
3rd Volley
Start Firing @ 21.569s
Clip Empty @ 26.387s
This gives consistent times of 4.818s for 100 bullets and one of 4.746s for 99. Small sample, I know. Problematic...
However in the first two volleys I also got consistent results for the time it takes to recharge the clip (2.871s) so I think a conclusion can already be made here.
At the PPR's RoF of 800, the clip should have been empty only after 7.500s, so something is up here. If I theorize that similar to the Typhoon two bullets get used per shot after the gun is "hot" the above times start making sense.
In all cases it takes 26 bullets (2 * 800 / 60) to get "hot", so in the 1st and 3rd volley, the remaining RoF = 74 * 60 / (4.818 - 2) = ~1575. In the 2nd volley, the remaining RoF = 73 * 60 / (2.746 - 2) = ~1595. Both are close enough to a RoF of 1600 that it using two bullets per shot is plausible.
Could someone with better testing software verify this?
I only have FRAPS (30 second capture) and AVS Video Editor to work with, but I got the following results via frame comparisons:
Using PPR with standard clip (100) against the wall on Condor
1st Volley
Start Firing @ 0.494s
Clip Empty @ 5.312s
2nd Volley
Start Firing @ 12.339s
Stop at 1 @ 17.085s
3rd Volley
Start Firing @ 21.569s
Clip Empty @ 26.387s
This gives consistent times of 4.818s for 100 bullets and one of 4.746s for 99. Small sample, I know. Problematic...
However in the first two volleys I also got consistent results for the time it takes to recharge the clip (2.871s) so I think a conclusion can already be made here.
At the PPR's RoF of 800, the clip should have been empty only after 7.500s, so something is up here. If I theorize that similar to the Typhoon two bullets get used per shot after the gun is "hot" the above times start making sense.
In all cases it takes 26 bullets (2 * 800 / 60) to get "hot", so in the 1st and 3rd volley, the remaining RoF = 74 * 60 / (4.818 - 2) = ~1575. In the 2nd volley, the remaining RoF = 73 * 60 / (2.746 - 2) = ~1595. Both are close enough to a RoF of 1600 that it using two bullets per shot is plausible.
Could someone with better testing software verify this?
#255
Posté 02 octobre 2012 - 07:04
Eckswhyzed
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#256
Posté 02 octobre 2012 - 07:06
peddroelm
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#257
Posté 02 octobre 2012 - 07:32
KyreneZA
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Thanks guys. I don't read all the threads, so I missed that one.
Any idea what the recharge rate is of the clip?
Any idea what the recharge rate is of the clip?
#258
Posté 02 octobre 2012 - 10:14
Cyonan
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Updated this for today's changes. The AT-12 will be added tonight.
Edit: AT-12 Raider has been added with the new MP stats. Damage and Spare Ammo Capacity are larger in MP than they were in SP.
Edit: AT-12 Raider has been added with the new MP stats. Damage and Spare Ammo Capacity are larger in MP than they were in SP.
Modifié par Cyonan, 02 octobre 2012 - 10:26 .
#259
Posté 02 octobre 2012 - 11:48
blaze55555
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Cyonan, have you reviewed my suggestion text wall?
#260
Posté 02 octobre 2012 - 11:56
capn233
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It's a good thing that they introduced the Raider with 3000dps. Oh wait, sustained is "only" 1200... 
Wraith is going to get buffed until it one shots an Atlas apparently.
Wraith is going to get buffed until it one shots an Atlas apparently.
#261
Posté 03 octobre 2012 - 12:07
Cyonan
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blaze55555 wrote...
Cyonan, have you reviewed my suggestion text wall?
I've looked it over. I'll make my feedback wall of text tonight =P
#262
Posté 03 octobre 2012 - 12:10
DivineAtropos
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Are those numbers accurate? The Raider really has double the single clip DPS of the Piranha, which was already the most OP gun in the game? o_O
#263
Posté 03 octobre 2012 - 12:14
Cyonan
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DivineAtropos wrote...
Are those numbers accurate? The Raider really has double the single clip DPS of the Piranha, which was already the most OP gun in the game? o_O
They are accurate.
Though what it doesn't mention is that the Raider's single clip DPS doesn't even last a full second, while the Piranha's lasts 2.4. Also that the Raider is much more reliant on being very good at reload cancelling due to the small clip(same effect the Claymore has, only not quite as bad as the Claymore is).
Stuff like that is why I have the quote at the bottom of my sig =P
#264
Posté 03 octobre 2012 - 12:17
DivineAtropos
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The bulb in my TV is dead so I can't quite test it out in-game yet, but damn. I 
reload canceling as it is so it sounds like I'll love this gun.
reload canceling as it is so it sounds like I'll love this gun.
#265
Posté 03 octobre 2012 - 12:41
blaze55555
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request: Raider burst DPS is misleading, as, much like single-shot SR's, it doesn't last a second, perhaps we should list it's full clip Damage and that it doesn't last more than a second, and leave it at that, and let the sustain and RC sustained DPS tell the story? And awesome; looking forward to the response X)
Modifié par blaze55555, 03 octobre 2012 - 12:48 .
#266
Posté 03 octobre 2012 - 11:40
KyreneZA
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No, that is a slippery slope. The Reegar's burst DPS only lasts 1.32 seconds so should then also be a special case. Where would you draw the line? I think keeping it as no burst DPS for single shot weapons is the correct way to go, even if other weapons have ridiculous burst DPS for a very short time. As you say: "let the sustain and RC sustained DPS tell the story"blaze55555 wrote...
request: Raider burst DPS is misleading, as, much like single-shot SR's, it doesn't last a second, perhaps we should list it's full clip Damage and that it doesn't last more than a second, and leave it at that, and let the sustain and RC sustained DPS tell the story? And awesome; looking forward to the response X)
#267
Posté 03 octobre 2012 - 06:56
Cyonan
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I like the idea of consolidating names like damage modifiers. Most people probably don't even know why it's called the Thor Damage Multiplier anyway(Which is actually just because the Arc Pistol was originally called the Thor Pistol).
I like most of the stats you've come up with. A few thoughts on them:
> Armour Piercing doesn't apply to any gun and might as well just be removed.
> Not Regular Weapon doesn't really change anything, and might as well just be removed as well
> I think leaving off Ammo Consumed Per Shot is best for now, as only the Hurricane has that variable
> For the Kishock, we should have a stat that notes the bleed damage.
> For Ammo Consumption Multiplier, the Arc Pistol when fully charged fires 3 projectiles that each consume 1 ammo. The GPS fires it's normal shot that consumes 2 ammo. The Reegar has variable ammo consumption, but we have yet to get any accurate readings on what its' doing.
> Perhaps have a boolean for if it ignores shield gate like the Kishock currently does?
Coming up with a universal formula could work, but it would require putting certain stats on every gun, like charge time(as the Javelin needs to use it). I'm happy with the formulas now that we've got the refire rate mechanics sorted out and they've been updated.
I'd rather leave the DPS for the AT-12 as is to keep it consistent. I don't really like the way DPS stats in general get used around here what I feel is too much of the time, but I refuse to not include data just because I don't like how it's being used.
I've entertained the idea of having a "Time to unload entire clip" stat, but I'm not completely sold on the idea.
On a side note, something I noticed is that while aim error does control bullet spread, most pellet based weapons have an aim error spread of 0 to 0. There a hidden thing that controls pellet spread that I don't see in the Coalesced.
I like most of the stats you've come up with. A few thoughts on them:
> Armour Piercing doesn't apply to any gun and might as well just be removed.
> Not Regular Weapon doesn't really change anything, and might as well just be removed as well
> I think leaving off Ammo Consumed Per Shot is best for now, as only the Hurricane has that variable
> For the Kishock, we should have a stat that notes the bleed damage.
> For Ammo Consumption Multiplier, the Arc Pistol when fully charged fires 3 projectiles that each consume 1 ammo. The GPS fires it's normal shot that consumes 2 ammo. The Reegar has variable ammo consumption, but we have yet to get any accurate readings on what its' doing.
> Perhaps have a boolean for if it ignores shield gate like the Kishock currently does?
Coming up with a universal formula could work, but it would require putting certain stats on every gun, like charge time(as the Javelin needs to use it). I'm happy with the formulas now that we've got the refire rate mechanics sorted out and they've been updated.
I'd rather leave the DPS for the AT-12 as is to keep it consistent. I don't really like the way DPS stats in general get used around here what I feel is too much of the time, but I refuse to not include data just because I don't like how it's being used.
I've entertained the idea of having a "Time to unload entire clip" stat, but I'm not completely sold on the idea.
On a side note, something I noticed is that while aim error does control bullet spread, most pellet based weapons have an aim error spread of 0 to 0. There a hidden thing that controls pellet spread that I don't see in the Coalesced.
#268
Posté 03 octobre 2012 - 07:01
Heggy
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Perhaps there's a base spread in the game's code that aim error adds to?
Edit: For pellet based weapons, they always have the same pattern, so there is little to no randomness in it its distribution, which would be what that stat contributes to perhaps? At least, that's how I've observed it.
Edit: For pellet based weapons, they always have the same pattern, so there is little to no randomness in it its distribution, which would be what that stat contributes to perhaps? At least, that's how I've observed it.
Modifié par Heggy, 03 octobre 2012 - 07:02 .
#269
Posté 04 octobre 2012 - 02:17
blaze55555
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Heggy wrote...
Perhaps there's a base spread in the game's code that aim error adds to?
Edit: For pellet based weapons, they always have the same pattern, so there is little to no randomness in it its distribution, which would be what that stat contributes to perhaps? At least, that's how I've observed it.
Graal, Talon, and Piranha, and/or any other shotgun with a Choke on it - the spread, (angle and whatnot) can and does change. Unless I'm misunderstanding what you meant to say, they don't "always have the same patter." And there is randomness - all 8 can accidentally land in the upper right quarter-circle quadrant of the circle, or they can all spray evenly throughout the circle.
As to the Reegar v. Raider argument.
No other guns in the game other than Single Shot shotguns can unload their entire clip in less than a second, like the AT-12 Raider. Why is this relevant? Well, you'll never even reach 3000 damage with a Raider, even at level X, I think you might be able to reach 2000 (it's max damage per clip at rank X), before the clip runs out, but that will be well before the second is up and already you're reloading. In fact, there are only 3 circumstances (as soon as the patch comes out) which would allow one to sustain firing the Raider through a full one-second window:
1. Human Soldier's with AR. The autoreload should allow the raider to fire through a full second, but then the damage boost distorts the DPS (in your favor, mind you). And this is also a very conditional thing. I will never put in any kind of note "Gun can only sustain fire through a full second with a Human Soldier" or any such clarification.
2. Turian Soldier, once MM gets patched/updated to auto-reload on use. Same as above, though - also the fraction of a second that it takes to activate these powers, and if they have any animations, the time it takes to fulfill those animations... well, it kind of makes sustaining fire through a full second ridiculously distorted, unrealistic and unachieveable.
3. Any class using a Thermal Clip pack, which can currently only be done, at most, 5 times per game. Even then, similar issues to above - it's unrealistic AND it increases damage in your favor for the second half of the clip.
So why I kind of support somehow throwing it in with the SS SR's is: It's clip can and never will truly last a full second for the clip to release - you'd need to increase it's clip size to at least 4 as the RoF is over 3 shots per second. Best chance might be on a destroyer, but last I checked, the Clip Size bonuses end around 80%, just shy of the 100% bonus that is needed, AND it increases RoF, which means the clip size would need to reach 4 even more... Having 3300 DPS stat up on that sheet is not only misleading, it looks ridiculous and stands out like a sore thumb - the Reegar Carbine can at least last firing for a full second, so the DPS stat that is on the sheet can theoretically be obtained if you can get all shots to hit. The sheer number of damage units in the Standard DPS stat for the Raider cannot be achieved for the exact reasons that a SS SR can't. I'm kinda in favor of some change to make it less... odd looking.
#270
Posté 04 octobre 2012 - 02:52
blaze55555
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P.S. the developers should have simply had way less accuracy stats and determined accuracy as an angle of spread that the weapon had and & increase of that angle for aim error penalties from sustained fire! Reguardless; I've started putting in a bunch in the SMG category and I foresee 1 huge problem that I couldn't easily see before: Size & Length; this change will increase the vertical height of the document a lot... >.>
I'm going to mess around and see what I can do about that, but I'm not currently happy with the pink rows.
I'm going to mess around and see what I can do about that, but I'm not currently happy with the pink rows.
#271
Posté 04 octobre 2012 - 10:32
blaze55555
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Additional: If anyone has any opinions, requests, or needs on the format, I am looking for feedback. Esp. if you have opinions on how to make it look good and not an eyesore or too fruity-colorful.
I'm still pondering on how to better represent the names of UR guns which is both readable and clearly depicts the guns' rarity. The guy who posted on Page 10 voiced concern and when I asked for his opinion he confirmed what I feared: He's colorblind, and anyone with such a condition will have issues with my formatting; which I don't want and am looking to change. Looking for opinion and suggestions.
Cyonan: Could you put "Blaze55555 is looking for input on format" in the OP? Maybe link it to this post, if possible?
EDIT 2: I'm starting to think that the Accuracy Stat rows need to be changed in some way... =_=
They're just too unclear, most don't understand them (I certainly don't) and the 'aim error' stat rows which theoretically determine the guns accuracy, or how... far off the gun misses/can miss? is 0 across the board for Shotguns, the most inaccurate guns in the game... I'm not even sure if Tangster knew what those stat means or whether a higher or lower number was better, etc. That being said, accuracy is important, we just need a better way to present the idea/feel of the accuracy.
EDIT 3: Overhaul in on MP page, but not done yet; the darker pink cells are prone to changing; I'm thinknig I like the current set-up on "Min/Max Damage Multiplier" combined with the Charge-Type Cell, it's very clear as to how a charged-type weapon handles. The Min Charge/Fire Delay cells, though, I'm thinking of consolidating...
It's up to you, Cyonan, at this point, whether or not you wanna delete the remaining bright cyan cells. These are either mechanics that weren't used, do nothing, don't apply to our sheet, or are current glitched and thusly irrelevant. (Some are just rows of "N/A" across the board, one is only in AR's and is currently broken for the ONLY gun that uses it, the Typhoon with AP mechanics)
EDIT 4: I'm trying to reserve the very first post on *a* page, atm. The next available one is obviously the one on the next page; I counted and each page fits 25 comments, then the next one goes onto the next page. This comment is the 21st. Other people can post 4 comments and the 5th is the first. If I cannot get up in time or for some reason cannot be around, could Cyonan at least reserve it? I want to use it to post a Key to stat names; It being the first post on a page I find to be... logical... and simple? Iunno, I think it would just look clean/better, I s'pose. Thanks to any who read this and listen/help.
EDIT 5: No comments or opinions/input on format? Hmmm... Also: Apparently putting a link in with the [ url = (link} ] command with a link to the very post you are making (only possible through editing) in an attempt to help out a friend by making him not have to create the link-part of the text you want him to put in the OP apparently breaks the post and makes it a blank box LOL
Let's see if this works; Cyonan, remove the spaces and put this text somewhere in the OP?
[ url = http://social.biowar...314/11#14344349 ]Blaze55555 is looking for any and all input, opinions, and help with the format.[ url ]
I'm still pondering on how to better represent the names of UR guns which is both readable and clearly depicts the guns' rarity. The guy who posted on Page 10 voiced concern and when I asked for his opinion he confirmed what I feared: He's colorblind, and anyone with such a condition will have issues with my formatting; which I don't want and am looking to change. Looking for opinion and suggestions.
Cyonan: Could you put "Blaze55555 is looking for input on format" in the OP? Maybe link it to this post, if possible?
EDIT 2: I'm starting to think that the Accuracy Stat rows need to be changed in some way... =_=
They're just too unclear, most don't understand them (I certainly don't) and the 'aim error' stat rows which theoretically determine the guns accuracy, or how... far off the gun misses/can miss? is 0 across the board for Shotguns, the most inaccurate guns in the game... I'm not even sure if Tangster knew what those stat means or whether a higher or lower number was better, etc. That being said, accuracy is important, we just need a better way to present the idea/feel of the accuracy.
EDIT 3: Overhaul in on MP page, but not done yet; the darker pink cells are prone to changing; I'm thinknig I like the current set-up on "Min/Max Damage Multiplier" combined with the Charge-Type Cell, it's very clear as to how a charged-type weapon handles. The Min Charge/Fire Delay cells, though, I'm thinking of consolidating...
It's up to you, Cyonan, at this point, whether or not you wanna delete the remaining bright cyan cells. These are either mechanics that weren't used, do nothing, don't apply to our sheet, or are current glitched and thusly irrelevant. (Some are just rows of "N/A" across the board, one is only in AR's and is currently broken for the ONLY gun that uses it, the Typhoon with AP mechanics)
EDIT 4: I'm trying to reserve the very first post on *a* page, atm. The next available one is obviously the one on the next page; I counted and each page fits 25 comments, then the next one goes onto the next page. This comment is the 21st. Other people can post 4 comments and the 5th is the first. If I cannot get up in time or for some reason cannot be around, could Cyonan at least reserve it? I want to use it to post a Key to stat names; It being the first post on a page I find to be... logical... and simple? Iunno, I think it would just look clean/better, I s'pose. Thanks to any who read this and listen/help.
EDIT 5: No comments or opinions/input on format? Hmmm... Also: Apparently putting a link in with the [ url = (link} ] command with a link to the very post you are making (only possible through editing) in an attempt to help out a friend by making him not have to create the link-part of the text you want him to put in the OP apparently breaks the post and makes it a blank box LOL
Let's see if this works; Cyonan, remove the spaces and put this text somewhere in the OP?
[ url = http://social.biowar...314/11#14344349 ]Blaze55555 is looking for any and all input, opinions, and help with the format.[ url ]
Modifié par blaze55555, 04 octobre 2012 - 04:47 .
#272
Posté 06 octobre 2012 - 11:17
KyreneZA
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Has anyone tested the RoF of the Reegar Carbine? I'm getting consistent results of around 700 for a full clip of 22 (57 frames at 30 fps), as opposed to the 1000 the game files claim.
#273
Posté 08 octobre 2012 - 12:45
blaze55555
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I brought this up on a different thread, here: [link]Kyrene wrote...
Has anyone tested the RoF of the Reegar Carbine? I'm getting consistent results of around 700 for a full clip of 22 (57 frames at 30 fps), as opposed to the 1000 the game files claim.
P.S. this is the 23rd comment; I'm still aiming to reserve/have reserved the 1st post on *a* page, preferably the next one, which means 2 more comments can fit on this page (page 11) before I will have to/be able to reserve the spot. Please keep this in mind. If I cannot, once again, I ask that Cyonan does.
EDIT: *Scary-wide grin*
I moved the reformat to the non-image sheet of the weapon thingy
and founs a technique to repeat the feat for the SP sheets, however I still need to do the SP sheet reformatting... (finish some stuff)
Modifié par blaze55555, 08 octobre 2012 - 12:55 .
#274
Posté 09 octobre 2012 - 04:24
Cyonan
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It's looking good. My thoughts so far:
> I like having the min/max setup at the bottom.
> Not sure I like the name on "minimum fire delay(charge) duration"
> Weapon Charge Type seems a decent name. I think something like "Area of Effect Attack" for the other name questioned one.
> I would love to come up with a better numerical representation of accuracy, though it would be nearly impossible to come up with something based off recoil due to how variable that is based on the player. Stat Bar Accuracy as a stat seems kind of useless, though.
For the Reegar, I've tried a few things in-game like slowing down time by 99%, but the ammo consumed is still variable. I can't just mod the RoF of the gun since it's contained within a DLC pack, and I'm pretty sure override variables don't work in the base Coalesced file.
Might play around with some of these variables to see what they actually do, since I don't even actually know what all of them do exactly. Tomorrow will be datamining Retaliation, though.
> I like having the min/max setup at the bottom.
> Not sure I like the name on "minimum fire delay(charge) duration"
> Weapon Charge Type seems a decent name. I think something like "Area of Effect Attack" for the other name questioned one.
> I would love to come up with a better numerical representation of accuracy, though it would be nearly impossible to come up with something based off recoil due to how variable that is based on the player. Stat Bar Accuracy as a stat seems kind of useless, though.
For the Reegar, I've tried a few things in-game like slowing down time by 99%, but the ammo consumed is still variable. I can't just mod the RoF of the gun since it's contained within a DLC pack, and I'm pretty sure override variables don't work in the base Coalesced file.
Might play around with some of these variables to see what they actually do, since I don't even actually know what all of them do exactly. Tomorrow will be datamining Retaliation, though.
#275
Posté 09 octobre 2012 - 05:00
blaze55555
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Min/Max charge times and Damage Multipliers and whatnot?Cyonan wrote...
It's looking good. My thoughts so far:
> I like having the min/max setup at the bottom.
I don't like it either, hence the (), but I can't think of a short, simple and intuitive name for that stat... it's for weapons like the Javelin, Reegar, and Acolyte which cannot/will not fire until the trigger is held through a certain second duration. I'm considering melding it with Min Charge Time stats.Cyonan wrote...
> Not sure I like the name on "minimum fire delay(charge) duration"
AoE Projectiles/Weapon is what I'm thinking... I'm not gung-ho about 'attack.' It's a sheet about gun weaponry, so it should be assumed that all 'attacks' are with projectile-types, but I kind of enjoy beating dead horses with Captain Obvious sticks.Cyonan wrote...
> Weapon Charge Type seems a decent name. I think something like "Area of Effect Attack" for the other name questioned one.
I see... More on this later, back burner FTW!!!Cyonan wrote...
> I would love to come up with a better numerical representation of accuracy, though it would be nearly impossible to come up with something based off recoil due to how variable that is based on the player. Stat Bar Accuracy as a stat seems kind of useless, though.
As to the reegar, I used Peddro's timestamp data sample from page... 7? of this thread. It's between 7 and 10 iirc.Cyonan wrote...
For the Reegar, I've tried a few things in-game like slowing down time by 99%, but the ammo consumed is still variable. I can't just mod the RoF of the gun since it's contained within a DLC pack, and I'm pretty sure override variables don't work in the base Coalesced file.
Might play around with some of these variables to see what they actually do, since I don't even actually know what all of them do exactly. Tomorrow will be datamining Retaliation, though.
http://social.biowar...5086/7#14404147
That was what I summarized that I took from the post, keeping in mind what the guy a few comments up was saying about it. (I did that after he posted his concern on the Reegar RoF, as I found it to be a good topic to consider)
EDIT: You might find this interesting; I saw this on a page.
Basically, reload this thread page until the ad link under the "What's New/Profile/My Content/My Games/Messages/Friends/Logout" (which is under your profile picture) is the ME3 MP image/ad.
Click it and it takes you to your manifest page; if you know some other/easier/faster way to get to your manifest, do that.
Once on your manifest page, click the Character Tab.
Then, on any image, right click and click the "Open Image in a New Tab" option, if available (it is a Chrome, Right-click menu standard option for image links)
It takes you to this weird long link that the png images stay in...
Now here's the kicker:
Replace the very last bit of (class)(Race) with a guess as to a new class/race combo. I successfully made 13, but I couldn't find the right link to get the last 3 to work. They are these:
1. AdeptVolus.png
2. AdeptKrogan.png
3. AdeptBatarian.png
4. SoldierGeth.png
5. SoldierQuarian.png (CANNOT GET THIS TO WORK)
6. SoldierTuran(Havoc).png (CANNOT GET THIS TO WORK)
7. EngineerVolus.png
8. EngineerTurian.png
9. EngineerVorcha.png
10. SentinelVolus.png
11. SentinelAsari.png
12. InfiltratorDrell.png
13. InfiltratorAsari.png
14. InfiltratorTurian(Ghost).png (CANNOT GET THIS TO WORK)
15. VanguardVolus.png
16. VanguardBatarian.png
http://na.llnet.biow.../AdeptVolus.png
http://na.llnet.biow...AdeptKrogan.png
http://na.llnet.biow...eptBatarian.png
http://na.llnet.biow...SoldierGeth.png
http://na.llnet.biow...gineerVolus.png
http://na.llnet.biow...ineerTurian.png
http://na.llnet.biow...ineerVorcha.png
http://na.llnet.biow...ntinelVolus.png
http://na.llnet.biow...ntinelAsari.png
http://na.llnet.biow...tratorDrell.png
http://na.llnet.biow...tratorAsari.png
http://na.llnet.biow...nguardVolus.png
http://na.llnet.biow...ardBatarian.png
Last 3 unknowns are Quarian Marksman (Soldier? New Infiltrator? b/c there are only 2 known Infiltrators and other than this quarian, 2 known soldiers, and there's already 1 more soldier than there is any other class)
The Turian Ghost and Havoc Infiltrator/Soldier are known, but I can't find what their icons look like.
Modifié par blaze55555, 09 octobre 2012 - 05:24 .
