454 réponses à ce sujet

[blaze55555]

RESERVING!!! c'mon... SUCCESS!!!
This will be the Legend/Key post in the future, but I don't feel like writing it now, so for now, it'll remain as is!

Modifié par blaze55555, 09 octobre 2012 - 05:01 .

[peddroelm]

for accuracy best illustration would be a non - accuracy bonused char wall imprint (screenshot) of a shot for shotguns ; 10-20 rounds for the other weapons ...

like this

Modifié par peddroelmz, 09 octobre 2012 - 05:21 .

[blaze55555]

peddroelmz wrote...

for accuracy best illustration would be a non - accuracy bonused char wall imprint (screenshot) of a shot for shotguns ; 10-20 rounds for the other weapons ...

like this

This is sick.

[peddroelm]

blaze55555 wrote...

This is sick.

there is information on the wall bullet imprint  that the current weapon stats from config don't have .. Claymore fires in X pattern ; AT raider fires in ellipse pattern and so forth .... Each shotgun has a base shot template on which the various accuracy parameters work ... 

[blaze55555]

peddroelmz wrote...

blaze55555 wrote...

This is sick.

there is information on the wall bullet imprint  that the current weapon stats from config don't have .. Claymore fires in X pattern ; AT raider fires in ellipse pattern and so forth .... Each shotgun has a base shot template on which the various accuracy parameters work ...

This is even sicker... how'd you even find this out? Hours of shooting the walls?!?!?

[peddroelm]

blaze55555 wrote...

peddroelmz wrote...

blaze55555 wrote...

This is sick.

there is information on the wall bullet imprint  that the current weapon stats from config don't have .. Claymore fires in X pattern ; AT raider fires in ellipse pattern and so forth .... Each shotgun has a base shot template on which the various accuracy parameters work ...

This is even sicker... how'd you even find this out? Hours of shooting the walls?!?!?

 
 
origin clocks my me3 at 420 hours played ... Enough time to notice each shotgun has a specific base shot pattern ... Shoting them at walls is the best way to gauge effects of the various +accuracy skills//add-ons//cover//aimed mode ... 

Modifié par peddroelmz, 09 octobre 2012 - 08:16 .

[exxtrooper]

So how long until we'll be able to get info on the new weapons from Retaliation?

[blaze55555]

So... I started putting in what info I could on the 2 new weapons from your Decompiling Retaliation thread, [here] along with some info that has been tested for in Peddro's thread, [here]

P.S. I also have the images in, now; aaand... I updated/edited the mods sections of each mod, double checking those already in, using my manifest [here] as a reference to what the game named each of the mods; the only ones that were 'incorrect' were the ones that were made available in the update today.

EDIT: I'm currently not seeing the UR quality in the CSMG... it seems way UP... like Uncommon Quality... weighs little less than a Hornet with lower DPS? :/

EDIT 2: Recharge Delay Duration for the CSR seems to be slower than the stat you originall found, Cyonan. That Youtube video is the first I can find on either of the 2 new weapons (the new Collector SMG or the SR). 6:11 to 6:16 seems to be the delay time, which is ~5 seconds (I can't see the microseconds from start to end of cooldown delay, but seconds seem close enough that I imagine it matches the stats of the PPR; Additionally, could some confirmation/information on the 4x multiplier of the CSR be found somewhere? The source or origin, preferably? I'm curious as to where that info came from as I've yet to see it in any info threads as of yet. I Hope the CSMG has a similar mechanic as it seems way UP for an UR... I think it need some kind of buff...

EDIT 3: Found a video example of someone using the CSMG for a long period of time... seems to perform... okay on bronze... (The video is a Bronze playthrough >.>)

EDIT 4: Found another of the CSMG.... The guy in the Edit 3 video has a base clip size of the CSMG of 55, whereas the guy in this video has 72 (I'm going to assume the Clip mod is used); 72 = ???
Vid 2 guy seems like a lot more experienced player, I think I've seen him doing vids for a lot longer, and I vaguely recognize him, which means he likely is one of the players who has a lot maxed out, including all things Uncommon or less rare including such things as the UC mods; thus the CSMG likely has the 80% magazine boost SMG mod; 1.8x(Base Clip Size) = 72 = 72/1.8 = Base Clip Size; 40... Hmmm... how does the other guy have a clip size of 55... I'm going to revert my edits to say 30 to 40 Clip size for the CSMG...

Modifié par blaze55555, 11 octobre 2012 - 02:32 .

[Cyonan]

I've got the stats in there. Collector SMG had incorrect damage values in the game files, but I got the proper number from Peddroelmz. The gun also has a hidden modifier of 1.5x against armoured targets.

I'll be doing dps calculations later as I don't yet have a formula for the charged based weapons(which I should probably come up with one).

Going to play around with some of the stats in SP later as well. They might be rather irrelevant to how the guns functions and we could clear up some row space by not having them.

[peddroelm]

no *4 chage multiplier for any of the new weapons .. As far as I can tell DPS calculations should be very straight forward (constant rof) ... no charge up mechanics for the new weapons

[Cyonan]

Got the damage formulas in. Sustained damage is very poor for both weapons due to the small clip sizes and long recharge times.

With so many things having been changed with the weapons, might be a good idea to test that the SMG restores 30% of the clip per second and the Sniper Rifle 35% like the game files say they do.

[blaze55555]

FORMATTING DONE!!! For all sheets including both SP sheets, WHOOOOO!!!!! *for now

In the future, when you need to add a new weapon and thusly, insert a column between 2, could you wait? I have a system in place for putting in new data, now, so that it is kinda easy comparing sheets;

It involves a strange self-determined system of order priority. The weapons are all currently in order, left to right, in terms of rarity, and within the individual rarity chunks, there's this odd, self-decided order based on a combination of accessibility ingame (both in SP and MP), general strength and devastating 'rating,' how soon you can get the gun, how easy the gun is to get, chronologically when the gun was released (i.e. in MP, a gun that came out with one DLC would be somewhere to the left of a gun that came out with a different DLC that came out after the first DLC); and so on and so forth. Also, Imma go check the wikia to verify that the BPSMG and Adas Anti-Synthetic Rifle are UR's or Golds. (You can't see in MP b/c they aren't there yet, but the costs for upgrading them should give insight on the subject)

Group ToDo list:

• I've concluded that the CSMG is UP for it's rarity.
• I've highlighted in BOLD red some stats which I believe need reviewing.
• The Chakram launcher should have a launch mechanics; Cyonan/Peddro, either one of you wanna try doing a quick test to find this out?
• The charge duration stats, and such should be double checked imo.
• Radius of Explosive projectile guns' explosion radius would be cool to put in; give me the info and I'll put it in (Asking a dev might be necessary?)
• Is the Collector AR available in SP? Cuz I can't think of anything every in my memory that would imply that; if it isn't, tell me and I'll remove it
• SP Falcon stats seem wonky, primarily the damage; It has a higher RoF than the MP version AND a higher Damage stat?
• I started including Shots/Burst in the "Maximum damage per Shot" thingy, BECAUSE, I included it somewhat for the Arc Pistol, as it does forcibly shoot 3 ammo in succession when charged (or so I've been told by a lot of people) - I believe I mainly did this on the SP version, tell me how you feel
• I forgot the Sniper Rifle stats; need to split the relevant ones
• Should there be a new second sheet dedicated to f'd up weapon stats; explosive weapons, chargeable weapons, etc. We could focus on only 3 DPS stats; Triggerspam DPS, Charging every shot DPS; and errr... I forget the last one
• I thought of a potentially 'better' format for DPS:
  
  • Basically, 2 (I/X) rows of "Maximum Damage per Clip
    Then, 2 (I/X) rows of "Duration to Empty a Full Clip (W/O Releasing the Trigger)
• For guns like the SS Shotguns, SR's and the Raider, this is a FAR more clear and accurate depiction of the Damage and DPS stats; IMO.
• You could even tack on a 3rd dual/set of (I/X) lines dividing the 2 columns to show a DPS stat
• I need to check the bg colors of the defense-type modifier rows, just to double check most are duller color bg's and the appropriate ones which get bonuses have the appropriate highlighted/brighter color bg's
  ummm...
• Oh, as to the penetration capable, etc. columns: As is, it's either YES or NO for penetration capable, then the one below it, if the gun isn't capable (NO), then it's N/A b/c it doesn't count, except for the Kishock, so as to accurately give an idea of what you can do with it, the Kishock is always "Cerberus Guardian Shields" in the 'innate penetration' stat row, and if a gun can penetrate, the second column for the weapon is 0, just type in 0, the format will do the rest for you, but if the gun has innate penetration, put that in instead. I have it set up in meters, but based on what it used to be, I'd say the stats are probably stored in centimeters? so 'move' the decimal over 2 points to the left, and put that number in; again, if it's 1 meter, or 100 cm, just type '1' and the format of the sheet will make it 1.00
• Similarly, for damage type multiplier rows, just type in a number and hit enter; again I did some working with the format so that it'll take '1' and make it look like '1.00x' and it'll take '1.5' if you put that in, and make it '1.50x,' etc.
  Uuuhhhmmmmmmm...
• I redid the DPS for the BPSMG, if you wanna look at it. Basically, if you look at an 8 round burst (because if you look at a burst between 1 to 7 or 9 to 15, it's not including a full cycle with the special round, and if you include more, you're inaccurately depicting the cycle, and making it seem like there's more than 7 reg rounds per 8th AP rounds); for regular DPS, I made it calculate, pretty much:
  ([SperAPR - (SperAPR/SperAPR)] * [(BaseDMG) * (Min Damage Multiplier)]) + ((SperAPR/SperAPR) * [(BaseDMG) * (MaxDMG Multiplier)]) / (SperAPR * (60 seconds/RoF in Rounds per Minute))Basically, that's the 7 shots in a 8 round burst multiplied by the damage they do (base dmg * min multiplier, which is 1) added to the damage of the special AP round (the 1 shot * the base damage * the max dmg multiplier, 5) all divided by how long it takes to fire the full 8 round burst, which is 8 shots * time per shot which is just the invert of the shots/second, or 60/RoFstat
  For the RC and nRC sustained stats, I basically modded it a little replacing the SperAPR for the full magazine in a few places, as that's the full damage done, and then I added in the Reload and RC durations to the bottom to look a little more like this:
  (_ ( [MagSize - (MagSize/SperAPR)] * [(BaseDMG) * (Min Damage Multiplier, 1)] ) + ( (MagSize/SperAPR) * [(BaseDMG) * (MaxDMG Multiplier)] ) _) / ( (SperAPR * (60 seconds/RoF in Rounds per Minute)) + (Reload Duration or RC Duration) )
• The Refire times of some weapons caused mild alarm; maybe they should be looked at across the board; primarily for the SP weapons
  Uuuhhhmmm...
• SP GPSg needs fixing; I borked it. Basically the min damage multiplier needs to be *'d into the formula; likely a fixed cell reference needs to replace a '{}' which I suspect is somewhere in the formula. When you delete a cell in some what (typically by deleting an entire row or column) that a formula references, in google docs spreadsheet, it can no longer find it and all references to the deleted cell get replaces with '{}'
• If I think of more, I'll likely add the todo's in a brand new post as this is already likely to be really long!
  
• One more: Need to do the Legend by editing my post above! And when it's done, a link to the post should be put in the OP

Edit: Formatting to make things a little less... blobbed together. Oh, and I'd love if someone looked over every stat of the Adas in some what or another to verify stuff.

Modifié par blaze55555, 13 octobre 2012 - 03:02 .

[blaze55555]

Collector SR Gameplay Video. A lot of good quality video of it being used.
Focusing on the full-clip depleted moment @11 minutes in.

it seems to have a ~1 second "Reload Cancel" duration
it seems to have a ~4 second "Reload" duration
and, to me, appears to regen ~50% per second, taking 2 seconds to recharge.

It runs out a little before the time my link is set to, then ~11:12 is when I believe he hit x to reload and the reload duration starts, right around the beginning of the 12th second in the 11th minute. After that, it appears to finally finish and start regening about 4 seconds later at the beginning of the 16th second of the 11th minute. It then finishes what seems to be around the beginning of the 18th second of the 11th minute.

In English: It seems to run out. Right as the clock turns to 11 minutes 12 seconds into the video, it seems to start the reload duration cooldown, then as the clock turns to 11 minutes 16 seconds into the video, it seems to start the reload duration regeneration section. As the clock turns to 11 minutes and 18 seconds, it appears the gun has finished regenerating to a full 45 round clip.

From what I see, I'd say the gun has a 1 second cooldown if the clip doesn't deplete; a 4 second cooldown id the clip does deplete, and regenerates ~50% of the clip/second when it starts regenerating.

P.S. I'd appreciate it if both peddroelmz and Cyonan could look at the bold red cells in the SP & MP parts. Also: use ctrl+f or the "Find & Replace" function (in the 'edit' submenu) to find any cell with a ? in it, and help to either a. verify that the data is correct, b. verify that the data is incorrect and state what data IS correct, or c. put in data if there is none.

Specific Weapons I want 100% looked over:

• Acolyte
• Arc Pistol
• Scorpion
• Falcon
• Adas Anti-Synthetic Rifle
• Bloodpack Punisher
• Collector SMG
• Collector SR
• Collector AR (Maybe)
• Hornet
• GPSMG
• Falcon
• Valkyrie (am I the only one who thinks the Valkyrie and Falcon gun models look eerily similar? I confuse them alot at first glance when they're next to each other; when doing some rearranging in the SP sheets, I even accidentally, temporarily put one gun image in the place of the other for a short while before realizing I did it)
  • &
• The Chakram Launcher

Specific Stat Rows I Want Double-Checked/Looked Over:

• Minimum Refire Time (SP, specifically)
• Charge Durations
• Headshot Capable
• HS Damage Modifier
• Charge-Based Weapon
• Weapon Charge Type
• Penetration Capable
• Innate Penetration Distance (SP, specifically)
• Ignores Armor DR
• Ignores Shield Gate
  
  • &
• AoE radius for the appropriate weapons

Modifié par blaze55555, 13 octobre 2012 - 04:19 .

[Dracian]

Holy FU, it wasn't only me, Collector SMG is a real big piece of zhit !

[Tybo]

I have a quick question about the Collector Sniper Rifle. How did you do the DPS calculations for it?

I assume that reload duration is the time before it starts regenerating ammo. Thus, if you stop shooting before you run out of ammo, it begins regenerating ammo after 1 second, and if you hit zero it is 4 seconds. Is this correct?

Secondly, do you know how the ammo regeneration works? In your DPS formula, you have a 100/50 listed. I'm guessing that this means that the Collector Sniper Rifle regenerates half its ammo every second. Is this correct?

So the total reload time for a fully spent clip is 6 seconds, and 2.9666 seconds if stopped at 1? (Only needs to regenerate 44 ammo, not 45)

[blaze55555]

tyhw: It's kind of guesswork. Cyonan had it at 35%/second; how it currently is:

I'm very excited and curious about these guns since they're the first PPR-like guns in the game since the PPR. I've been scouring youtube for gameplay example videos, and Cyonan has been doing his typical datamining thing with coalesced to see what the game files claim the stats are, but apparently is a lot different (the Collector SMG has a damage stat >90 @Rank X!!!), so I've been trying to see if I can verify some stuff.

How the Reload duration works is: Reload Dutation is the time you have to wait between when you stop firing and when the ammo starts regenerating; after that, there's still the time it takes for the ammo to regenerate. if you read up above, I posted a link with a time frame with, what I believe, to be a good example of this gun working. It would appear it takes 4 seconds to start regenerating, and after, it took ~2 seconds to get back to 45 ammo, so i changed it from the 35% that Cyonan had to the 50% I thought I observed.

Reload Cancel is the duration it takes to start regenerating if you don't deplete the clip; again, it's the time between when you stop firing and when it starts to regenerate.

Standard DPS is simple: When you're shooting it, not counting other conditions, how much damage are you doing per second?
That's Damage (of the appropriate Rank, I or X) times the RoF (800, so it's been reported) divided by 60 (as RoF stats are stored as Shots/Minute, and we want Shots/Second * Damage/Shot)
= Base_Damage * RoF/60

Full-Cycle DPS is Total damage in the clip (Damage per shot * Shots/clip) divided by the total time it takes to run a full clip-firing cycle; which is time it takes to deplete the clip (for most weapons, including this one; especially weapons with a consistent, full-automatic, non-varying RoF stat, it's shots/clip * 60/RoF or shots/clip / (RoF/60) - The reason I say shots/clip is b/c of the Hurricane; it has a magazine size of 40, but fires 2 ammo per shot, so only 20 shots/clip; for every other weapon, it's just the magazine size) + the Regeneration Cooldown time (Reload Duration) + time it takes to regenerate the full clip to be back where you started, which seems to be 50%/second, which is 100/50; a full cycle.
= (Base_Damage * Magazine_Size) / ((Magazine_Size * (60/RoF)) + (Reload_Duration) + (Regeneration Time or 100/50))

The optimal full cycle DPS is the same, with a few exceptions: For a regen weapon, you can't fire the full clip, so for perfect DPS, the Magazine_Size stat is (Magazine_Size - 1) throughout the formula, and the Reload Duration part is the Reload Cancel Duration part.

Cool-ly enough, the Collector SMG seems to start regenerating ammo instantly after you release the trigger without overheating.

[blaze55555]

tyhw wrote...

I have a quick question about the Collector Sniper Rifle. How did you do the DPS calculations for it?

I assume that reload duration is the time before it starts regenerating ammo. Thus, if you stop shooting before you run out of ammo, it begins regenerating ammo after 1 second, and if you hit zero it is 4 seconds. Is this correct?

Secondly, do you know how the ammo regeneration works? In your DPS formula, you have a 100/50 listed. I'm guessing that this means that the Collector Sniper Rifle regenerates half its ammo every second. Is this correct?

So the total reload time for a fully spent clip is 6 seconds, and 2.9666 seconds if stopped at 1? (Only needs to regenerate 44 ammo, not 45)

More simply stated: I think you get what we put in it.

Your assumption is correct; the reload duration is the time between when you stop firing and when the magazine *starts* regenerating; with Reload Duration (Regular) this includes when you deplete the clip; it's longer.
With the Reload Cancel Duration, it's when you don't deplete the clip. In the most ideal and highest-DPS situation, the reload 'cancel' happens with 1 ammo left, otherwise the DPS is lower.

You are correct, it takes 4 seconds to start regenerating if you deplete, it seems, and 1 second if you don't.

You are correct about the 100/50 part; I thoroughly believe I observed video proof of it regenerating 50% of the magazine/second, you can check in a link above. (I can't say off the top of my head, which link and where exactly, but it's on this (the 12th) page)

And you're right about the reload/regeneration time, it's 6 seconds for regeneration v. 2.96666 seconds (according to your math; I'll trust it as I've seen you do your testing, also I'm lazy!)

[Cyonan]

Opinions on the red highlighted fields:

> I like the Damage Multipliers.
> I feel like we could condense charge duration into one stat. Knowing the Weapon Charge Type generally renders one of these fields irrelevant to you.
> Weapon Charge Type is still the best name I can think of for that field.

I don't see anything about explosion radius for weapons in the Coalesced. Will most likely need developer input.

Collector AR is a promotional weapon for SP. PC players can mod saves to unlock it without needing the promotion though.

Falcon was nerfed pretty hard early on in the MP due to how overpowered(for back then, it would be average these days) the SP version is when ammo isn't a concern.

I like the idea of factoring in shots/burst into max damage/shot, since it's the max damage you get out of 1 single mouse click or trigger press.

I don't really know what to do about charged weapon DPS. There's so many different ways you can fire the gun that I don't know if I want to bother including every single method. Maybe just stick to charging every shot and not charging any shots.

I like having a "time to unload clip" stat, though I do think that DPS should still be there, even on weapons like the AT-12 where you unload the entire clip in under 1 second.

Random thoughts on stat rows:

> Not sure I like the name "Aim Error". I only fully know what it does because I messed around with it in singleplayer. We could rename it to something like "Bullet Spread" and even put it into 1 row rather than 2(still have one for hipfired and one for zoomed)

> After testing I still don't actually have the slightest clue was Recoil Yaw Frequency/Scale or Accuracy Interp Speed do. Possibly think about just removing them since I don't think anybody but Bioware actually knows? Same goes for Ideal Range stats.

Will hopefully be doing a couple of tests tonight. Need to double check that thread about Phasic Rounds(unless Peddroelmz has beaten me to it).

[peddroelm]

Cyonan wrote...

...Need to double check that thread about Phasic Rounds(unless Peddroelmz has beaten me to it).

No worries on that one ... Peddroelmz was kidnapped by unknown aliens (X-COM) ...

[Cyonan]

peddroelmz wrote...

No worries on that one ... Peddroelmz was kidnapped by unknown aliens (X-COM) ...

Yeah... I've been playing that too.

Though my Memory Reading software doesn't appear to want to record breakpoints right now for some reason.

[peddroelm]

Cyonan wrote...


Though my Memory Reading software doesn't appear to want to record breakpoints right now for some reason.

chat me up next time you try ...

[Rokayt]

peddroelmz wrote...

blaze55555 wrote...

peddroelmz wrote...

blaze55555 wrote...

This is sick.

there is information on the wall bullet imprint  that the current weapon stats from config don't have .. Claymore fires in X pattern ; AT raider fires in ellipse pattern and so forth .... Each shotgun has a base shot template on which the various accuracy parameters work ...

This is even sicker... how'd you even find this out? Hours of shooting the walls?!?!?

 
 
origin clocks my me3 at 420 hours played ... Enough time to notice each shotgun has a specific base shot pattern ... Shoting them at walls is the best way to gauge effects of the various +accuracy skills//add-ons//cover//aimed mode ... 

The Scimitar is distinctly biasesed to putting a single pellet or two in the center.

[Cyonan]

Weapons test with the Reegar at Rate of Fire of 200. Ammo Counter:

22
21
20
19
18
17
16
15
14
13
12
11
10
9
8
7
6
5
4
3
2
1
0

The gun does not consume multiple ammo per shot, and the ammo counter simply can't keep up with a RoF of 1000 which causes it to "skip" and look like it consumed 2 ammo for the shot.

[blaze55555]

@Cyonan: Can you see why the most shots anyone's seen hit reliably is 3 shy of 12 8-projectile shots? Is it just so inaccurate that it does fire a full 22-round clip, with 8 projectiles/shot, and misses ~like 40% of the time?

EDIT: Did you finally get past the recompiling issue needed to mod DLC weapon stats, now? I take it you did b/c the RoF you modded!

Could you tell if the RoF was accurately firing @ 200, or if the game might have slightly slower/faster ingame time that the RoF goes off of?

Modifié par blaze55555, 16 octobre 2012 - 08:01 .

[Cyonan]

blaze55555 wrote...

@Cyonan: Can you see why the most shots anyone's seen hit reliably is 3 shy of 12 8-projectile shots? Is it just so inaccurate that it does fire a full 22-round clip, with 8 projectiles/shot, and misses ~like 40% of the time?

EDIT: Did you finally get past the recompiling issue needed to mod DLC weapon stats, now? I take it you did b/c the RoF you modded!

Could you tell if the RoF was accurately firing @ 200, or if the game might have slightly slower/faster ingame time that the RoF goes off of?

I can do some tests. No guarantee's on it though.

I still can't mod the Reegar's rate of fire, but I can mod the rate of fire of the character via the Marksman ability. I just set it to -80% which slowed all guns down to 20% of their normal rate of fire.

I couldn't tell that it was exactly 200, but it was slow enough for the ammo counter to keep up. None of the timing tests I've done for RoF has produced consistent results.