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[Cyonan]

WorgariusShadowfang wrote...

Because I'm pretty terrible at math and will probably mess it up royally: How does the Valkyrie stack up against the Locust/GPR on a Turian Soldier speced and equipped for headshot damage? Does the minimum refire delay on the bursts keep it from being a top tier pick?

The burst DPS of each gun with 50% increased RoF from Marksman is:

Valkyrie: 757.26 - 946.75 DPS from rank I to X

Locust X: 701.25

GPR X: 720

In theory, the clips of the Locust and GPR will take longer to unload than the Valkyrie's, however the rate of fire bug means both the Locust and GPR will have reduced clips under Marksman. The Valkyrie is immune to the bug since it's a burst fire weapon.

[WorgariusShadowfang]

Wait, there's a bug with Marksman? Does the skill cause weapons to expend more ammo than it's supposed to? And I thought I knew every bug in this game..

Either way, thanks. Gonna do a game or two with it tonight to see if I like it, tho it being level I doesn't do it any favors.

[Cyonan]

WorgariusShadowfang wrote...

Wait, there's a bug with Marksman? Does the skill cause weapons to expend more ammo than it's supposed to? And I thought I knew every bug in this game..

Either way, thanks. Gonna do a game or two with it tonight to see if I like it, tho it being level I doesn't do it any favors.

It's a bug with really high rate of fire. Marksman just makes many guns that aren't affected by it reach the needed RPM to be hit, which is ~800.

It causes guns to occasionally consume twice as much ammo per shot, and gets worse the higher your rate of fire goes.

For the Reegar(1000 RPM), you lose almost half your clip to this, which is why I often say theoretical DPS of the Reegar is not a reachable number in-game.

Burst fire weapons appear to be immune to this, however.

[Astreon]

I'm always impressed by how quickly you get this data updated—something like 6 minutes today?! Thanks for keeping this up, it's a great resource that more games need!

I did find a couple of errors on the SP weapons and consumable sheets:

1) SP Piranha is in its original, non-nerfed form, so it still has 8 rounds per magazine and I would guess the original damage, too.

2) Power Amplifier Module IV is +50% power damage instead of +40%.

[Megakoresh]

I think GPR does not deal headshot damage to bosses, might want to look into that.

[nicethugbert]

It would be very useful to factor accuracy into the DPS formula. It only makes sense that if a certain number of shots are likely to miss via game mechanics that we should look at that. In the RL world, accuracy is important. Don't see why it would not be so in ME3 MP.

[Cyonan]

nicethugbert wrote...

It would be very useful to factor accuracy into the DPS formula. It only makes sense that if a certain number of shots are likely to miss via game mechanics that we should look at that. In the RL world, accuracy is important. Don't see why it would not be so in ME3 MP.

It would be nice, but unfortunately there's no real system in place to determine how many bullets are going to miss.

Since every player is going to be different against every target, that's not something theorycrafting can plan for really.

[nicethugbert]

Cyonan wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

It would be very useful to factor accuracy into the DPS formula. It only makes sense that if a certain number of shots are likely to miss via game mechanics that we should look at that. In the RL world, accuracy is important. Don't see why it would not be so in ME3 MP.

It would be nice, but unfortunately there's no real system in place to determine how many bullets are going to miss.

Since every player is going to be different against every target, that's not something theorycrafting can plan for really.

I know you can't account for the player's attempt to manage recoil/spread/etc.  But, these things do make a difference and the simplest calculations are already simplified cases. It would be useful for comparative purposes at least.

It would be interesting to see DPS calcs for enemies.  I know they shoot in bursts so it would have to be two calculations, one for min and one for max DPS.

Modifié par nicethugbert, 02 février 2013 - 06:10 .

[Grotaiche]

I have a question about the "Reload Duration (Reload Cancel)" durations listed in the sheet : what do they mean exactly ? Because if it's the time it takes for the weapon to be actually reloaded (vs the total reload animation time), it's probably inaccurate. For example, the Hurricane's reload time with reload cancel is somewhat the same as the reload time without reload cancel. Same can be said of Harrier, Talon, Wraith, etc...
So what am I missing here ?

[Cyonan]

Grotaiche wrote...

I have a question about the "Reload Duration (Reload Cancel)" durations listed in the sheet : what do they mean exactly ? Because if it's the time it takes for the weapon to be actually reloaded (vs the total reload animation time), it's probably inaccurate. For example, the Hurricane's reload time with reload cancel is somewhat the same as the reload time without reload cancel. Same can be said of Harrier, Talon, Wraith, etc...
So what am I missing here ?

Reload cancel is the time it takes for the game to refill your clip(which happens mid-reload animation). It is the duration of a reload cancel that was executed perfectly.

There isn't a huge difference between reload cancel and regular reload duration for weapons with fast reloads however. Once you factor in human reaction time, it gets even smaller.

nicethugbert wrote...

I know you can't account for the player's attempt to manage recoil/spread/etc.  But, these things do make a difference and the simplest calculations are already simplified cases. It would be useful for comparative purposes at least.

It would be interesting to see DPS calcs for enemies.  I know they shoot in bursts so it would have to be two calculations, one for min and one for max DPS.

The thing is that I have no number to use. For example, in the formula that accounts for accuracy with the Revenant, what % of bullets should I say didn't hit? Why should I use that number?

I'm working on something for all of my spreadsheets right now. It's possible I can take a look at enemy DPS in doing this.

[nicethugbert]

Cyonan wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

I know you can't account for the player's attempt to manage recoil/spread/etc.  But, these things do make a difference and the simplest calculations are already simplified cases. It would be useful for comparative purposes at least.

It would be interesting to see DPS calcs for enemies.  I know they shoot in bursts so it would have to be two calculations, one for min and one for max DPS.

The thing is that I have no number to use. For example, in the formula that accounts for accuracy with the Revenant, what % of bullets should I say didn't hit? Why should I use that number?

I see now.  I just went through the file and I don't see a simple readily apparent accuracy number.  All those accuracy numbers have something to do with a hidden accuracy formula.

[Grotaiche]

Cyonan wrote...

to refill your clip (which happens mid-reload animation)

This is the part that bothers me, because it looks like the refill happens at the end of the animation (or there is no notable animation once the clip is refilled) on some weapons like the ones I have named (Hurricane, Talon, Wraith). Maybe it's just me because it happens so fast that I don't see it, though.

[Cyonan]

Grotaiche wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

to refill your clip (which happens mid-reload animation)

This is the part that bothers me, because it looks like the refill happens at the end of the animation (or there is no notable animation once the clip is refilled) on some weapons like the ones I have named (Hurricane, Talon, Wraith). Maybe it's just me because it happens so fast that I don't see it, though.

At some point in the middle of the animation, you should see a thermal clip eject from the gun(every gun does this, except the PPR/CSMG which vent steam instead). This is the visual part of the animation that is when the refill happens.

In the case of the Talon/Hurricane after the clip ejects, the character will spend a short amount of time returning the gun back to normal aiming position. During this you can't fire unless you reload cancel. For both of these weapons though, the time between ejecting the clip and being able to fire again is less than 1 second if you don't cancel.

[Cyonan]

The Hurricane finally has the right recoil values, as the balance change only said "lowered recoil" rather than giving exact numbers.

The recent patch was kind enough to include a snapshot of every balance change ever made up to a certain point(which was not too long before the patch came out). This includes certain changes they made server-side prior to launching DLC content without telling us(since we didn't have the content yet).

Nothing we didn't know already weapons wise other than the Hurricane thing(I did get the correct values for staggering a Dragoon and will have some updates to wave data).

[Cyonan]

Updated for today's changes.

Some increases in damage for the Incisor and Collector Sniper Rifle.

[Grinch57]

Cyonan wrote...

Updated for today's changes.

Some increases in damage for the Incisor and Collector Sniper Rifle.

Dude, you are fast.  Thank you.

[GroverA125]

Any chances of seeing Reckoning content in here? I want to see how bad the Adas is now.

[Cyonan]

I've got the spreadsheet with images updated. Google Drive is being bad and should feel bad right now, so I'll update the no images version later tonight.

For the four weapons that are from SP, the changes they got were:

BPP - Damage nerf
Adas - Rate of Fire nerf
Executioner - Nothing
Venom - Damage buff to uncharged attack. Charged attack damage nerfed(this assumes the modifier is working).

Images will be added later as well.

Side note: The Spitfire's max RoF might be wrong since ramp up weapons have a habit of having incorrect values for RoF in the game files. I used the number that the stat bar displays which is 800 RPM. I will have to test it once I unlock it.

Modifié par Cyonan, 27 février 2013 - 05:31 .

[Raptor2023]

Thanks again Cyonan.
Are all these numbers correct though? The Suppressor's single clip DPS is listed at 1571 which is impossible for a clip of 6 shots at 157.10 damage.

[Cyonan]

Raptor2023 wrote...

Thanks again Cyonan.
Are all these numbers correct though? The Suppressor's single clip DPS is listed at 1571 which is impossible for a clip of 6 shots at 157.10 damage.

It has to do with the RoF being 600 RPM. Single clip DPS is calculated as damage * rof / 60. If the time to unload the clip is less than 1 second then the damage per clip will be lower than 1 seconds worth of DPS.

In the case of a gun like this, you also wont be able to click at 600 RPM most likely, unless you use a macro.

The AT-12 actually does the same thing since the clip unloads in 0.6 seconds.

[Sulaco_7]

Thank you for this!

One question, how is the punisher's dps over 1000 when it does such mediocre damage even at X (47.75)? I don't understand this one.

[Cyonan]

Sulaco_7 wrote...

Thank you for this!

One question, how is the punisher's dps over 1000 when it does such mediocre damage even at X (47.75)? I don't understand this one.

Updated it(That is actually the armour DPS)

The AP Round increases the overall DPS considerably, though.

Every 8th round the shot is replaced with an AP Round, which hits 5x as hard as does 5x as much recoil.

Against armour, this AP round does 2x damage.

[Tybo]

You've got the Executioner listed with no headshot damage. I think its a mistake, because you have it listed as 2.5x in single player, right?

[Elecbender]

The Spitfire description says its highly effective versus shields and synthetics.

Is there any truth to this?

[Cyonan]

Elecbender wrote...

The Spitfire description says its highly effective versus shields and synthetics.

Is there any truth to this?

I've not changed the modifiers for the weapons I don't have yet(Spitfire and Lancer).

It might have a shield/barrier modifier, though it'll have to be tested.