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[dudemacha]

Since its necroed anyway i dont see the 1.5x multiplier against defenses on the GPS on the data sheet

Modifié par Nik6454, 13 juin 2013 - 02:04 .

[Cyonan]

Since it's been necro'd a second time...

How much do people actually look at any of the wall of stats that are below the defence modifiers?

It kind of feels like there is quite a bit that could be cut out, or merged into a single field(like min and max aim errors).

[capn233]

Cyonan wrote...

Since it's been necro'd a second time...

How much do people actually look at any of the wall of stats that are below the defence modifiers?

It kind of feels like there is quite a bit that could be cut out, or merged into a single field(like min and max aim errors).

I do, but I am probably one of the few.

[dudemacha]

Element 0 wrote...

Nik6454 wrote...

Since its necroed anyway i dont see the 1.5x multiplier against defenses on the GPS on the data sheet

 

Maybe because it DOESN'T have one? 

I asked that becoz, cyanon mentioned it in the first few pages or was once in the data sheet, i dont remember exactly

[Kirrahe Airlines CEO]

capn233 wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

Since it's been necro'd a second time...

How much do people actually look at any of the wall of stats that are below the defence modifiers?

It kind of feels like there is quite a bit that could be cut out, or merged into a single field(like min and max aim errors).

I do, but I am probably one of the few.

I do too. 

[Cyonan]

Nik6454 wrote...

Element 0 wrote...

Nik6454 wrote...

Since its necroed anyway i dont see the 1.5x multiplier against defenses on the GPS on the data sheet

 

Maybe because it DOESN'T have one? 

I asked that becoz, cyanon mentioned it in the first few pages or was once in the data sheet, i dont remember exactly

It might have been mentioned earlier on when we didn't have solid data on the defence modifiers, but the GPS doesn't actually have any defence modifiers.

[Evil]

Cyonan wrote...

How much do people actually look at any of the wall of stats that are below the defence modifiers?

It kind of feels like there is quite a bit that could be cut out, or merged into a single field(like min and max aim errors).

I usually don't, but it's good to have all the info available, better too much data than not enouth.

Might it be worth making a TLDR version of the same thing with smaller pictures and only the most pertinant pieces of data, for easier reading?

If it was more detailed than kalance, but less detailed than the full spreadsheet, it would be a nice intermediate option, I think.

On the full spreadsheet it also might be worth considering adding some simple explanations of what the more obscure stats actually mean, since some of us aren't as good with math and computers as you are.

Modifié par Evil Mastered, 18 octobre 2013 - 10:20 .

[Lucky]

Cyonan wrote...

Since it's been necro'd a second time...

How much do people actually look at any of the wall of stats that are below the defence modifiers?

It kind of feels like there is quite a bit that could be cut out, or merged into a single field(like min and max aim errors).

I've certainly found some of them useful on occasion like the hipfire penalties, charge damage modifiers, innate piercing stats, ignoring shieldgate, etc...

Though I will admit I have no ****g clue what some of them mean

[Cyonan]

rlucht wrote...

I've certainly found some of them useful on occasion like the hipfire penalties, charge damage modifiers, innate piercing stats, ignoring shieldgate, etc...

Though I will admit I have no ****g clue what some of them mean

Even I didn't know what some of them meant until recently =P

Mostly what I was thinking of doing was combining a few of the stats like Aim Errors, maybe renaming a few to make their purpose a little bit clearer, and then removing a few which have little to no meaning anyway like Stat Bar Accuracy.

Although I've been messing around with some old source code for a game I was working on years ago, so I have no idea when I'd make time to do these changes.

[Neonn]

Hi Cyonan,

May I ask how do you figure out the multi-clip DPS for Lancer?
Could you please demonstrate your calculation, thanks.

[Cyonan]

For any of the infinite ammo weapons, the no reload-cancel DPS is calculated as though you emptied the clip(and thus have to wait through the overheat animation) while the reload cancel DPS is calculated at taking the clip to 1 bullet left and letting it regenerate.

In order to calculate the average DPS across multiple clips, I use the following formula:

(clip_size * damage_per_shot) / (((60 / rate_of_fire) * clip_size) + regen_delay + (100 / regen_per_second))

Basically this is the amount of damage dealt in a single clip divided by the time it takes for you to fire all those shots plus wait for the regeneration.

In the case of "reload canceled" DPS, you would take 1 off of the clip_size variable in that.

For the Lancer specifically, regen delay is 4 seconds if you empty the clip completely, or 1 second if you don't. The clip regenerates 35% per second.

The regeneration phase of these guns tends to really hurt the on paper sustained DPS, which is why Extended Mags is typically very strong for them.

[Neonn]

Cyonan wrote...

For any of the infinite ammo weapons, the no reload-cancel DPS is calculated as though you emptied the clip(and thus have to wait through the overheat animation) while the reload cancel DPS is calculated at taking the clip to 1 bullet left and letting it regenerate.

In order to calculate the average DPS across multiple clips, I use the following formula:

(clip_size * damage_per_shot) / (((60 / rate_of_fire) * clip_size) + regen_delay + (100 / regen_per_second))

Basically this is the amount of damage dealt in a single clip divided by the time it takes for you to fire all those shots plus wait for the regeneration.

In the case of "reload canceled" DPS, you would take 1 off of the clip_size variable in that.

For the Lancer specifically, regen delay is 4 seconds if you empty the clip completely, or 1 second if you don't. The clip regenerates 35% per second.

The regeneration phase of these guns tends to really hurt the on paper sustained DPS, which is why Extended Mags is typically very strong for them.

Thanks for the reply. 

So roughly, if you leave 1 bullet in the clip, it is gonna take 3.81s secs to regen
(1+(56/57)/0.35) = 3.81s

One clip dps = 848.00

Multiclip dps = 848 * (time required to shoot 56 bullets/ (time required to shoot 56 bullets+3.81s))
= 848 * (5.6/(5.6+3.81))
= 504.6 multiclip dps (close enough to your stats, which is now 502.14)



PS: I noticed Lancer's multiclip DPS stats on the google sheet is now 502.14 (was 698.03).
Lancer's multiclip DPS was much higher than what I previously calculated and I could not figure out why.  

Modifié par Neonn, 21 novembre 2013 - 01:43 .

[Cyonan]

Yeah, I found the Lancer's numbers to be a bit higher. I'm not sure what I did when originally calculating it.

To be honest, I should probably double check all the infinite ammo weapon DPS. I know the PPR is currently higher than it should be as well because I did the formula before 2x ammo consumption was common knowledge.

For the Lancer, it will take 100 / 35 = 2.86 seconds to regenerate fully with 1 extra second of delay before it begins regenerating for 3.86 seconds total.

If you're just looking for regeneration time, the only part of the formula you need is:

regen_delay + (100 / regen_per_second)

The clip size stuff is to figure out how long it took you to fire off 56 bullets.

[Neonn]

Cyonan wrote...

Yeah, I found the Lancer's numbers to be a bit higher. I'm not sure what I did when originally calculating it.

To be honest, I should probably double check all the infinite ammo weapon DPS. I know the PPR is currently higher than it should be as well because I did the formula before 2x ammo consumption was common knowledge.

For the Lancer, it will take 100 / 35 = 2.86 seconds to regenerate fully with 1 extra second of delay before it begins regenerating for 3.86 seconds total.

If you're just looking for regeneration time, the only part of the formula you need is:

regen_delay + (100 / regen_per_second)

The clip size stuff is to figure out how long it took you to fire off 56 bullets.

Thanks again 

BTW, is regen per second 35% for all infinite ammo wpns?

[Lexsoar]

Apologies for necro, some of the weapon weights in the SP sheet were confusing me. 

 

Ingame I've just noticed when comparing a few weapons like the Indra/Raptor/Valiant and Talon/Paladin/Executioner, that the MP balance changes' encumbrances make more sense (those applied to the mp sheets).  This is just from some weapon bench swapping, and looking at the cooldown change on screen (in singleplayer).

[Cyonan]

Apologies for necro, some of the weapon weights in the SP sheet were confusing me. 

 

Ingame I've just noticed when comparing a few weapons like the Indra/Raptor/Valiant and Talon/Paladin/Executioner, that the MP balance changes' encumbrances make more sense (those applied to the mp sheets).  This is just from some weapon bench swapping, and looking at the cooldown change on screen (in singleplayer).

 

There was a patch towards the end of support that was supposed to optimize some stuff for the MP, but ended up hitting SP with some of the balance changes that had occurred.

 

A few powers have been affected as well, but I don't actually have a list of everything that was affected by it.

[numark]

Question on the RoF fire for some of the Sniper Rifles.

It lists the Viper RoF as 70, which is the same as the Mantis. How is that possible, given that one is semi-auto and the other is single shot?

It also lists the Black Widow at a RoF of 60, again slower than the single-shot sniper rifles, which seems odd.

 

Is there a formula that calculates RoF?

[Deerber]

Question on the RoF fire for some of the Sniper Rifles.

It lists the Viper RoF as 70, which is the same as the Mantis. How is that possible, given that one is semi-auto and the other is single shot?

It also lists the Black Widow at a RoF of 60, again slower than the single-shot sniper rifles, which seems odd.

 

Single shots weapons have a RoF value too. And it is also used, as you need to wait for 1/RoF seconds before you can start your reload animation, which lasts for the amount specified in the spreadsheet.

[Lucky]

Disregard the ROF stat for all weapons that are single shot. In theory that is their "ROF" if they had more than one in the clip, but they don't so their ROF is one shot per reload speed.

 

The only exception is the Executioner pistol on the Destroyer as he can use the clip mod plus devastator mode to up it's clip size to 2.

 

Edit: Blast! Ninja'ed by an even more acurate explanation

[numark]

cool! thx for the replies.

So just to make sure I'm understanding this right taking the Mantis as an example you wait:

1/70 = 0.014 seconds 

 

before starting the reload duration?

[Deerber]

cool! thx for the replies.

So just to make sure I'm understanding this right taking the Mantis as an example you wait:

1/70 = 0.014 seconds 

 

before starting the reload duration?

 

Yes.

 

Edit: sorry no, my bad. The RoF is expressed in rounds per minute, so you wait for 1/RoF minutes. It's a noticeable time.

[The NightMan Cometh]

Seriously..???? this is Necro'd?????...My reply......

 

[peddroelm]

Messing with some SP tests.  the SP tables don't have the right damage range for viper . It should be 292.1 365.2 matching the MP stats..

 

same for shuriken  38.7 48.3. 

[Alfonsedode]

as it s backup on top, there s a problem with the listed damage for incisor, either in SP or MP, dont remebmer, one of them list the 3 burst damage and the other the single shot one.