454 réponses à ce sujet

[Metal Vile]

Also, LOL at how worthless the "Super Scope Mod" looks for Sniper Rifles. It literally adds nothing beyond what the normal scope does, and yet it weighs an extra 50 points.

Unless it auto-locks onto enemies' heads, I can't see how this could possibly be worth it.

[Amano Kazumi]

Does having an armor piercing mod add to the default 50% armor reduction of the Typhoon or replace it? IE will an armor piercing mod make armor 35% effective or 0% effective?

[rmccowen]

Thanks for taking up the reins on this!

/bookmarked

[MIA115]

Thank you for the updates.

[brblx]

+1 for 'thanks'.

I have to comment...holy CRAP the typhoon seems unbalanced. People already favored the harrier, and it looks like the highest DPS assault rifle...then you look at the typhoon, and see it does barely less than half as much damage per shot...

...at a minimum of four times the firerate? That doesn't seem right. The math definitely seems off. Harrier, at level 1, initial firerate...~106 damage, 80 rounds per minute...typhoon, 45, 400.

That's 1.3 and 6.6 rounds per second, respectively. ROF must not be quantified in RPM...so what is it? And why does the typhoon, using the Harrier as a reference, do well over 2000 DPS?

[Cyonan]

 

brblx wrote...

+1 for 'thanks'.

I have to comment...holy CRAP the typhoon seems unbalanced. People already favored the harrier, and it looks like the highest DPS assault rifle...then you look at the typhoon, and see it does barely less than half as much damage per shot...

...at a minimum of four times the firerate? That doesn't seem right. The math definitely seems off. Harrier, at level 1, initial firerate...~106 damage, 80 rounds per minute...typhoon, 45, 400.

That's 1.3 and 6.6 rounds per second, respectively. ROF must not be quantified in RPM...so what is it? And why does the typhoon, using the Harrier as a reference, do well over 2000 DPS?

The RoF of the Harrier is 550 RPM(9.2 per second) while the Typhon is 650 RPM(10.8 per second). Their overall DPS is roughly equal once the Typhon gets ramped up to full, but the Typhoon has 5x the clip size and takes 1.5 seconds to get there.

After 0.75 seconds the Typhoon's damage per shot doubles, and for the first 1.5 seconds the RoF goes from 250 RPM to 650 RPM.

Gamemako wrote...

Hey Cy, since you're updating this, feel like adding the ejectshellcasingtimeratio to them?

I think I might borrow the sheet and add updated DPS calculations including/excluding warmup times.

I'll see to getting it added. I'll probably just add a new field for Reload Duration while Cancelling so that I don't have to explain what ejectshellcasingtimeratio is and how to figure out the new duration from it on the sheet somewhere.

and then everyone also has the calculations done for them already.

[Sevrun]

Ok, a question... if the Rev is supposed to do almost twice the damage of the Phaeston at X... Why does the Phaeston appear to be just as effective shot for shot??

I use the Stability mod and AP on the Rev. AP and EB on the Phaeston. But the EB shouldn't add enough to adjust things that much...

[Uchimura]

Been waiting for this, thanks.

[Cyonan]

Sevrun wrote...

Ok, a question... if the Rev is supposed to do almost twice the damage of the Phaeston at X... Why does the Phaeston appear to be just as effective shot for shot??

I use the Stability mod and AP on the Rev. AP and EB on the Phaeston. But the EB shouldn't add enough to adjust things that much...

With the EB(Assuming you have no other damage modifiers), the Phaeston X would be doing 65.5 per shot to the Revenant X's 79.5.

The Revenant will do more dps in the end, but shot for shot 15 damage isn't really going to be noticable.

[DSxCallOfBooty-]

Cyonan wrote...

N7 Typhoon
> Damage per shot ramps up after a few shots(This is what the Heat Up Time is).
> It ignores 50% of the target's armour and can penetrate 1 meter of cover without the use of mods or ammo.

Acolyte
> It gets the standard 300% damage modifier vs Shields/Barriers that all electrical effects get against.
> It can taze unprotected targets like Energy Drain or Overload(without Neural Shock) do.
> It cannot shoot through cover, even with the piercing mod.

Thanks for the explanation on how the Typhoon's damage increase works, good to know.  As far as partially ignoring armor-dr, how does this work with AP Mod/Ammo?  To clarify, AP Ammo I subtracts 50% of the armor-dr applied.  Does this mean that, when using the Typhoon with AP Ammo I, on Gold, there's no armor penalty at all?  Or is there a penalty of 12.5?(Hopefully you understand what I mean there, couldn't find a good way to word it.)  Also, is there a partial armor-dr ignorance on some of the other weapons with innate penetration?  (Crusader, Widow, Black Widow)

As far as the Acolyte's tazing is concerned, is there a 100% chance of it occuring, or is it possibly determined randomly? (like the Disciple's stun is believed to)  Also, it would appear as if your DPS calculation for the Acolyte doesn't take the charge time into effect (the charge is 1.1 seconds, as far as I know).

Thanks for taking over the spreadsheet project Cyonan, good to have some updated spreadsheets.

Modifié par DSxCallOfBooty-, 22 juillet 2012 - 03:40 .

[Sevrun]

Cyonan wrote...

Sevrun wrote...

Ok, a question... if the Rev is supposed to do almost twice the damage of the Phaeston at X... Why does the Phaeston appear to be just as effective shot for shot??

I use the Stability mod and AP on the Rev. AP and EB on the Phaeston. But the EB shouldn't add enough to adjust things that much...

With the EB(Assuming you have no other damage modifiers), the Phaeston X would be doing 65.5 per shot to the Revenant X's 79.5.

The Revenant will do more dps in the end, but shot for shot 15 damage isn't really going to be noticable.

Makes sense.  Seem to do better with the Phaeston's accuracy, hence why I have reluctantly let the Rev rest

[Cyonan]

DSxCallOfBooty- wrote...
Thanks for the explanation on how the Typhoon's damage increase works, good to know.  As far as partially ignoring armor-dr, how does this work with AP Mod/Ammo?  To clarify, AP Ammo I subtracts 50% of the armor-dr applied.  Does this mean that, when using the Typhoon with AP Ammo I, on Gold, there's no armor penalty at all?  Or is there a penalty of 12.5?(Hopefully you understand what I mean there, couldn't find a good way to word it.)  Also, is there a partial armor-dr ignorance on some of the other weapons with innate penetration?  (Crusader, Widow, Black Widow)

As far as the Acolyte's tazing is concerned, is there a 100% chance of it occuring, or is it possibly determined randomly? (like the Disciple's stun is believed to)  Also, it would appear as if your DPS calculation for the Acolyte doesn't take the charge time into effect (the charge is 1.1 seconds, as far as I know).

Thanks for taking over the spreadsheet project Cyonan, good to have some updated spreadsheets.

I'm not 100% sure on how armour piercing stacks with itself. I suspect that it's additive(So having AP ammo I on the Typhoon would ignore all armour) because the majority of things in the game are, but I haven't tested it.

The other penetration weapons do not have any sort of armour ignore built in. The Typhoon has a unique variable for it.

In my Testing, the Acolyte had a 100% rate of tazing an unprotected target. The DPS calculations are all just (damage * RoF) / 60 so that's what it was doing, but I updated it to reflect that the Acolyte can only be fired via the charge mechanic.

[Cyonan]

Spreadsheet has been updated to include Reload Duration for reload cancelling.

Keep in mind this is the absolute fastest that it can be reloaded. Human error and reflexes will rarely allow for this unless you practice to get the timing perfect(Even then it will be very slightly slower).

[PsychoticBiotic]

Can you confirm if the Typhoon grants damage protection while fired, as some people are suggesting?

[Finnegone]

Thanks for keeping this up to date

Hear my face: awesome work

Modifié par Finnegone, 24 juillet 2012 - 02:40 .

[Creakazoid]

Hey Cyonan, which particular stat in the game files indicate the Typhoon's 50% armor reduction? I only see the 2x damage multiplier when charged. Thanks!

[Cyonan]

Spreadsheet has been updated for today's balance changes.

Creakazoid wrote...

Hey Cyonan, which particular stat in the game files indicate the Typhoon's 50% armor reduction? I only see the 2x damage multiplier when charged. Thanks!

I can't remember off the top of my head, but I know it isn't in the same place as every other variable for the gun. I wanna say it's in biogame -> sfxgameeffects, but I don't have my Coalesced editor open right now. it's right next to where they store a bunch of data for the new gear.

I'm also investigating the damagereduction variable to see when that's active, and if the gun gives you 40% damage reduction.

[Lambda_00]

Cyonan wrote...

Spreadsheet has been updated for today's balance changes.

Creakazoid wrote...

Hey Cyonan, which particular stat in the game files indicate the Typhoon's 50% armor reduction? I only see the 2x damage multiplier when charged. Thanks!

I can't remember off the top of my head, but I know it isn't in the same place as every other variable for the gun. I wanna say it's in biogame -> sfxgameeffects, but I don't have my Coalesced editor open right now. it's right next to where they store a bunch of data for the new gear.

I'm also investigating the damagereduction variable to see when that's active, and if the gun gives you 40% damage reduction.

The one in biogame sfxgameeffect is:
lmgdamagetakenbonus
maxdamagereduction -0.5f

Modifié par Lambda_00, 24 juillet 2012 - 08:42 .

[blaze55555]

Thank you so much for this and taking it up when tangster appeared to go off the grid. I really appreciate the info. Just one request: The columns are very wide, and a lot of the time, the stat names get bumped off the end when I try to find specific weapons on the table. Any chance you could do one of a few things: Use a trick to make sure the stat names along the left-hand-side of the document always stay on top of the other stuff, on the left (You could move all weapon stats over, deleting the mid-table-stat-name columns); or alternatively, move the stats for weapons over more frequently in the table to make room for stat-name-columns. I know how to do the first one in OpenOffice, an open-source text/table document program (A free version of MSworks, essentially). If you say how you edit these things, I could porbly figure out how to do so in w/e you use.
Thank you again for the document, and for reading this!

Adendum: You piranha stats looked massively overly broken and off. I didn't doubt your math, but I remembered seeing something somewhere, (here: https://docs.google....pUamd4dVE&gid=3) If you take your updated DPP (Damage per projectile) for I and X and multiply it by 6 as if each shot shoots 6 projectiles compared to the average 8 of most other shotguns, you get his statdamage stat. Yours seems a tad high. 1700 DPS sounds massively broken, but if you change 8*projectile damage to 6*projectile damage, the DPS suddenly becomes a lot more similar to the Harrier DPS, and becomes  a lot more understandable. Perhaps check the files once more to see if it really does shoot only 6 projectiles per shot as opposed to 8 like your stat spreadsheet claims/uses. keep up the awesomeness, thank you!

Modifié par blaze55555, 25 juillet 2012 - 08:54 .

[YapperFlapper]

Sevrun wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

Sevrun wrote...

Ok, a question... if the Rev is supposed to do almost twice the damage of the Phaeston at X... Why does the Phaeston appear to be just as effective shot for shot??

I use the Stability mod and AP on the Rev. AP and EB on the Phaeston. But the EB shouldn't add enough to adjust things that much...

With the EB(Assuming you have no other damage modifiers), the Phaeston X would be doing 65.5 per shot to the Revenant X's 79.5.

The Revenant will do more dps in the end, but shot for shot 15 damage isn't really going to be noticable.

Makes sense.  Seem to do better with the Phaeston's accuracy, hence why I have reluctantly let the Rev rest

Yeah, if it seems like the Phaestron is killing as quickly or quicker than the Revenant, it's because you're landing more shots.  While the difference with EB on the Phaestron is only 15 points per bullet, that's about a 20% damaage advantage to the Revenant at the same RoF.  If you're shooting at enemies at medium/long range, you're likely just missing a bit more with the Revenant.  Up close/short range, the Revenant should be noticably doing more damage.  That's what I've noticed, anyway.

[peddroelm]

Cyonan wrote...

I'm not 100% sure on how armour piercing stacks with itself. I suspect that it's additive(So having AP ammo I on the Typhoon would ignore all armour) because the majority of things in the game are, but I haven't tested it.

The other penetration weapons do not have any sort of armour ignore built in. The Typhoon has a unique variable for it.

Yes it stacks ..Yes it can get over 100% (ignore all armor) ... No there are no extra benefits when going over 100% armor piercing ... Yes I have tested this ... 

-------
Is platinium difficulty armor DR still 50 ?

[Cyonan]

 

blaze55555 wrote...

Thank you so much for this and taking it up when tangster appeared to go off the grid. I really appreciate the info. Just one request: The columns are very wide, and a lot of the time, the stat names get bumped off the end when I try to find specific weapons on the table. Any chance you could do one of a few things: Use a trick to make sure the stat names along the left-hand-side of the document always stay on top of the other stuff, on the left (You could move all weapon stats over, deleting the mid-table-stat-name columns); or alternatively, move the stats for weapons over more frequently in the table to make room for stat-name-columns. I know how to do the first one in OpenOffice, an open-source text/table document program (A free version of MSworks, essentially). If you say how you edit these things, I could porbly figure out how to do so in w/e you use.
Thank you again for the document, and for reading this!

Adendum: You piranha stats looked massively overly broken and off. I didn't doubt your math, but I remembered seeing something somewhere, (here: https://docs.google....pUamd4dVE&gid=3) If you take your updated DPP (Damage per projectile) for I and X and multiply it by 6 as if each shot shoots 6 projectiles compared to the average 8 of most other shotguns, you get his statdamage stat. Yours seems a tad high. 1700 DPS sounds massively broken, but if you change 8*projectile damage to 6*projectile damage, the DPS suddenly becomes a lot more similar to the Harrier DPS, and becomes  a lot more understandable. Perhaps check the files once more to see if it really does shoot only 6 projectiles per shot as opposed to 8 like your stat spreadsheet claims/uses. keep up the awesomeness, thank you!

I'll see what I can do with the formatting.

I tested the Piranha in-game, it's firing 8 pellets. I suppose the idea was that it's incredible DPS would be off set by the fact that it has pitiful accuracy, which is why it's amazing on any character with an accuracy boosting ability =P

peddroelmz wrote...

Yes it stacks ..Yes it can get over 100% (ignore all armor) ... No there are no extra benefits when going over 100% armor piercing ... Yes I have tested this ... 

-------
Is platinium difficulty armor DR still 50 ?

Yes, the Platinum armour DR is still 50.

Modifié par Cyonan, 25 juillet 2012 - 04:15 .

[blaze55555]

Cyonan wrote...

I'll see what I can do with the formatting.

I tested the Piranha in-game, it's firing 8 pellets. I suppose the idea was that it's incredible DPS would be off set by the fact that it has pitiful accuracy, which is why it's amazing on any character with an accuracy boosting ability =P

Thank you for the info and responding so quickly. And I was thinking about that (The accuracy being the offset) when I remembered to check back here. I've heard about its poor accuracy. (I read somewhere that the accuracy is so bad, that if you aim down the sights and shoot, the spread would cover the entire screen... now that's inaccurate)

[MikeSlackenerny]

Thanks for updating the spreadsheet. Good on you. Got two questions:

1) Any chance you can put a better quality picture for the Harrier (I know, picky picky)?
2) The Hurricane. Its rate of fire is based on the nominal number, isn't it (i.e. a magazine size of 40)? However, because it actually fires "two" rounds for every shot, wouldn't that mean its effective rate of fire be only half of 600? Because if that's the case, its DPS would also get halved.

I'm not sure about point 2 above, because if the Hurricane's DPS is indeed the value listed then it'll be on par with the Harrier. I somehow feel though a half of its nominal DPS is more consistent with my in-game experience.

[datako12]

MikeSlackenerny wrote...

Thanks for updating the spreadsheet. Good on you. Got two questions:

1) Any chance you can put a better quality picture for the Harrier (I know, picky picky)?
2) The Hurricane. Its rate of fire is based on the nominal number, isn't it (i.e. a magazine size of 40)? However, because it actually fires "two" rounds for every shot, wouldn't that mean its effective rate of fire be only half of 600? Because if that's the case, its DPS would also get halved.

I'm not sure about point 2 above, because if the Hurricane's DPS is indeed the value listed then it'll be on par with the Harrier. I somehow feel though a half of its nominal DPS is more consistent with my in-game experience.

for number 2 im fairly certain that 600 is the true rate of fire, and 1200 would be the rate of fire if you went off of what the number in the clip shows.

and i've used the hurricane a fair bit, and 1000 DPS seems a lot more consistent with my play than 500 DPS would. as i've gone up against another person using the exact same build except they were using a harrier, and i outscored them by a little bit, if the hurricane was putting out half the DPS of the harrier i would have had a hard time doing that