454 réponses à ce sujet

[peddroelm]

Zikel wrote...

peddroelmz wrote...

Charged Striker max 550 RPM

That can't be right. It would mean that when charged it does 1658 DPS, which would be much higher then Harrier 10.

It does seem a bit high .. Will check again ... Anyway striker has tiny clip and huge kick - it very hard to put that DPS on target ...


UPDATE 1
--------------

START 230.647461
487 230.647461
376 230.647461
231 230.647461
234 230.647461
227 230.647461
235 230.647461
240 230.647461
235 230.647461
245 230.647461
213 230.647461
212 230.647461
243 230.647461
249 230.647461
217 230.647461
233 230.647461
218 230.647461
216 230.647461
217 230.647461
237 230.647461

21 shot clip

Even at 215 milliseconds delay RPM is 60000 / 215 = 279,069

Which resembles coalesced.ini 275 RPM info for the weapon ...

60000 / 230 = 260,8695 RPM closer to reality or due to measuring error ?

But why did my TC cloak test record 23 hits with cloak bonus ? Will redo test ..

215 375.367432 // TC bonus on -weapon is at full RPM (notice 215 millisencods delay)
233 375.367432 
219 375.367432
234 375.367432
231 375.367432
219 375.367432
218 375.367432
216 375.367432
249 375.367432
219 375.367432
232 375.367432
234 375.367432
217 375.367432
220 556.267578 //ammo pack reload ( weapon clip too small even with extended mag)
247 556.267578
234 556.267578
234 556.267578
219 556.267578
216 556.267578
250 556.267578
231 556.267578
221 556.267578
233 556.267578 Last Shot with cloak damage bonus

Again 23 hits with cloak bonus ..

-----------------------------------.
But TC damage bonus  lasted near 5 (215 * 23 = 4945) realtime seconds ...WTF ?!?!
Will ammo pack extend TC bonus ? Will activating TC while autofiring a weapon make the bonus last longer ??? 

EDIT2 - The simple explanation is STRIKER unlike any other weapon does NOT break cloak.. The ~5 second duration is how much TC specced for damage lasts ... This takes Striker on anotehr dimension on a TurianGhostInfiltrator ...
---------------------------------------

Will do some phaeston test ...


EDIT done phaeston 600 rpm, hurricane 600 rpm & ramped up PPR  800 RPM tests ... Expecterd number of rounds fired in the 2.5 cloak bonus window ... Striker seem bugged to receive cloak bonus for longer than 2.5 seconds ... Will need to use extended mag and reload via ammopack to take advantage of it thow ...

Modifié par peddroelmz, 10 novembre 2012 - 10:19 .

[Cyonan]

Tactical Cloak has a 1.5 second bonus duration, but it also has a minimum duration of 1 second on the cloak itself.  Not sure how that will mess with calculations.

I've been meaning to do some tests, but the memory tool's download page seems to have moved. I just get a 404 error.

I've done a lot of modifications to the spreadsheets. I thought about just using Blaze55555's sheet since a lot of the work was already done, but a lot of people already have the link to mine, and a lot of people wouldn't know to switch over. The entire change list is:

> Formatting has been updated to be based off Blaze's spreadsheet
> All weapons with burst fire and min refire rates have had their formula's tweaked to better reflect those properties.
> Javelin/Reegar damage formulas have been changed to reflect the 0.25 charge time of both weapons.
> The left columns that contain title information for the numbers is locked in place now so that scrolling left/right keeps it in place for easier reading of the numbers. For some reason Google Docs doesn't show this on the html version of the sheet. To get this effect you need to remove "output=html" from the URL, or just click here
> Rows have been moved around to have more relevant information above the wall of DPS numbers. Things like Magazine/Spare Ammo,  Rate of Fire, Reload Speed, Shots per Burst, etc.

Modifié par Cyonan, 16 septembre 2012 - 09:10 .

[CROAT_56]

these stats are helpful thanks

[peddroelm]

Cyonan wrote...

Tactical Cloak has a 1.5 second bonus duration, but it also has a minimum duration of 1 second on the cloak itself.  Not sure how that will mess with calculations.
...

Most weapons I've tested with get 2.5 second cloak bonus damage bonus ...For some unknown reason (BUG ?) Striker seems to get more TC damage bonus duration (almost 5 seconds)....   Not huge issue .. only way to get striker a big enough clip to fire for 5 seconds on infiltrators requires AR extended mag mod & reload while firing with ammo pack ... It cannot be abused ... Only real consecquence it takes away one of the few precise methods I have to measure its ramped up ROF (TC test will get inflated value due to extended TC bonus duratrion)...  Next best thing are the timestamps that - while not as exact - puts the weapon ROF ~ 275 RPM which has the big advantage of matching the coalesced.ini value ...

[peddroelm]

some more TC with time stamp auto weapon tests

///////////////////////////
///////////////////////////

Separate striker test


START 208.034912
457 208.034912
394 352.754883 // TC on
198 352.754883
226 352.754883
245 352.754883
216 352.754883
223 533.655029 // AMMO PACK reload
243 533.655029
225 533.655029
246 533.655029
221 533.655029
251 533.655029
219 533.655029
242 533.655029
240 533.655029
227 533.655029
219 533.655029
227 533.655029
226 533.655029
231 533.655029
240 533.655029
216 533.655029
249 533.655029
233 533.655029 // LAST TC SHOT 23 shots ~5 second cloak damage bonus duration
232 388.935059

//////////////////////
//////////////////////
huricane (600 RPM) test


START 112.688232
83 112.688232
184 112.688232
100 112.688232
116 112.688232
84 112.688232
135 201.514893 //TC ON
85 201.514893
182 201.514893 //miss here
99 201.514893
204 312.548340 // AMMO PACK ON (missed shot here double delay)
100 312.548340
98 312.548340
106 312.548340
115 312.548340
79 312.548340
202 312.548340 //miss here
118 312.548340
82 312.548340
119 312.548340
96 312.548340
87 312.548340
96 312.548340
101 312.548340
101 312.548340
116 312.548340
84 312.548340
99 312.548340 //LAST TC bonused shot
117 223.721680
100 223.721680
100 223.721680
82 223.721680


25 shots - in 2.5 second window 600 RPM match

///////////////
/////////////////////////

typhoon VII TC ammopack

start 66.854980
217 66.854980
263 66.854980
146 66.854980
108 66.854980
107 111.532471 //ramped up
99 111.532471
107 111.532471
109 111.532471
82 111.532471
89 111.532471
101 111.532471
98 111.532471
97 111.532471
101 111.532471
110 111.532471
84 111.532471
108 111.532471
114 111.532471
73 111.532471
108 111.532471
95 204.772461 // TC
106 204.772461
103 204.772461
129 204.772461
81 204.772461
99 204.772461
98 204.772461
100 204.772461
97 204.772461
95 204.772461
104 204.772461
91 204.772461
109 204.772461
98 204.772461
123 321.322510 // TC +ammo
76 321.322510
99 321.322510
109 321.322510
92 321.322510
99 321.322510
98 321.322510
98 321.322510
99 321.322510
97 321.322510
98 321.322510 //last shot with TC bonus
98 228.082520 // TC OFF
104 228.082520
104 228.082520
99 228.082520
75 228.082520
108 228.082520
100 228.082520

~600 ? RPM after ramp up

25 shots in 2.5 second window .. Typhoon max RPM is 600 ?

/////////////////////
///////////////////
////////////////////
PPR

start 15.986572
66 15.986572
78 15.986572
64 15.986572
77 15.986572
74 15.986572
75 15.986572
83 15.986572
51 15.986572
80 15.986572
93 15.986572
58 15.986572
97 15.986572
65 15.986572
79 15.986572
58 15.986572
80 15.986572
70 15.986572
95 15.986572
68 15.986572
67 15.986572
69 15.986572
82 15.986572
77 15.986572
72 15.986572
80 15.986572
68 15.986572
78 108.946777 Charged up
73 108.946777
64 108.946777
92 108.946777
78 108.946777
74 108.946777
57 108.946777
83 108.946777
74 108.946777
74 108.946777
57 108.946777
81 179.773438 //TC
75 179.773438
75 179.773438
81 179.773438
80 179.773438
57 179.773438
83 179.773438
67 179.773438
75 179.773438
82 179.773438
81 179.773438
57 179.773438
83 179.773438
78 179.773438
81 179.773438
57 179.773438
78 179.773438
80 179.773438
73 179.773438
63 179.773438
96 179.773438
48 179.773438
86 268.306641 //ammo pack
94 268.306641
55 268.306641
82 268.306641
82 268.306641
57 268.306641
83 268.306641
77 268.306641
81 268.306641
50 268.306641
98 268.306641
44 268.306641
96 197.479980 //TC off
74 197.479980
57 197.479980
92 197.479980
49 197.479980


60 000 / (2500 / 34) = 816 RPM OK

[Kingfurykiller]

dude! this is awesome! thanks for all the hard work

i am slightly confused on what the difference between stat damage and level X damage is...

[Cyonan]

Kingfurykiller wrote...

dude! this is awesome! thanks for all the hard work

i am slightly confused on what the difference between stat damage and level X damage is...

Level X(and level I) damage is the damage of each individual projectile, while stat damage is total damage. This only really has a difference in pellet based weapons like shotguns.

It's named stat damage since that's just what it was when I took over the sheet. I probably should change it over to something clearer.

[PeskySquirrel]

Cyonan, would it be possible to add a "freeze" to the google docs excel sheet? This would freeze the left most column (row headers like Stat Bar Acc, Recoil, etc) so when you scroll right you can know what each row's values are for. I know it's doable and very helpful on the standard version but I've never messed around with google docs.

[Cyonan]

PeskySquirrel wrote...

Cyonan, would it be possible to add a "freeze" to the google docs excel sheet? This would freeze the left most column (row headers like Stat Bar Acc, Recoil, etc) so when you scroll right you can know what each row's values are for. I know it's doable and very helpful on the standard version but I've never messed around with google docs.

It is set up to do that currently, however for some reason that feature doesn't appear to work in the html version of the spreadsheet, so you have to look at the regular version of the sheet here:

https://docs.google....RnbGRDYnc#gid=8

[Astreon]

Astreon wrote...

A couple of questions,

How are you calculating single clip DPS for burst weapons?  When I try it myself, I get numbers like those on Grimy's weapon sheet.  With a Vindicator X, for example, I got 471.4 DPS from taking eight bursts and seven refire delays into consideration for the time spent.

Also, in light of the recent Valiant damage edit, is it still true that the weapon only gains a single spare round on its way from I to X?  If so, I wonder if it's unintentional, as it stands out like a sore thumb compared to the rest of the game's arsenal.

(bump)

The Vindicator's DPS now appears to be even more incorrect than it was, probably just a quirk with the recent formatting.

Any confirmation on the Valiant's spare ammo?

[PeskySquirrel]

Cyonan wrote...

PeskySquirrel wrote...

Cyonan, would it be possible to add a "freeze" to the google docs excel sheet? This would freeze the left most column (row headers like Stat Bar Acc, Recoil, etc) so when you scroll right you can know what each row's values are for. I know it's doable and very helpful on the standard version but I've never messed around with google docs.

It is set up to do that currently, however for some reason that feature doesn't appear to work in the html version of the spreadsheet, so you have to look at the regular version of the sheet here:

https://docs.google....RnbGRDYnc#gid=8

Thanks.  I went back to search earlier posts for specific descriptions on some of the row headers and noticed you had addressed this already - sorry, should have just read the first post.

On that note, would it be possible to post descriptions of the row headers?  Some are obvious, but others like Stat Bar Acc and Acc Fire Interp Speed aren't so obvious.  I did a search a while back and found that Stat Bar Acc was the length of the accuracy bar on the weapon screen in game but I think it would be good if these descriptions and others were posted.  Acc Fire Interp Speed I think is how the accuracy changes as you keep firing but I'm not sure.

[Shpoon]

Excellent stuff, Cyonan. Well done on putting the work into this. Much appreciated, helps a lot.

[Cyonan]

Astreon wrote...

Astreon wrote...

A couple of questions,

How are you calculating single clip DPS for burst weapons? When I try it myself, I get numbers like those on Grimy's weapon sheet. With a Vindicator X, for example, I got 471.4 DPS from taking eight bursts and seven refire delays into consideration for the time spent.

Also, in light of the recent Valiant damage edit, is it still true that the weapon only gains a single spare round on its way from I to X? If so, I wonder if it's unintentional, as it stands out like a sore thumb compared to the rest of the game's arsenal.

(bump)

The Vindicator's DPS now appears to be even more incorrect than it was, probably just a quirk with the recent formatting.

Any confirmation on the Valiant's spare ammo?

It depends on how the refire rate is being calculated in the formula. In my rebalancing mod of SP while I was doing the Incisor I noticed that the refire timer starts from the moment you click the mouse, rather then from when the last bullet in the burst fires.

The Vindicator has a rate of fire of 550 which means it takes 0.11 seconds per bullet, or 0.33 to fire off an entire burst. Since the min refire rate is 0.25 seconds, it doesn't come into play, but you do notice a slight delay before you can fire a second burst because of the rate of fire wanting you to wait 0.11 seconds first.

I only use the min refire rate in the calculation if the refire rate is longer than it takes to fire a burst.

Unless someone with a Valiant X can confirm how much ammo it has, I don't know. I only have a Valiant II right now. I can confirm that at II it has 31 spare ammo.

[peddroelm]

Cyonan wrote...

Astreon wrote...

Astreon wrote...

A couple of questions,

How are you calculating single clip DPS for burst weapons? When I try it myself, I get numbers like those on Grimy's weapon sheet. With a Vindicator X, for example, I got 471.4 DPS from taking eight bursts and seven refire delays into consideration for the time spent.

Also, in light of the recent Valiant damage edit, is it still true that the weapon only gains a single spare round on its way from I to X? If so, I wonder if it's unintentional, as it stands out like a sore thumb compared to the rest of the game's arsenal.

(bump)

The Vindicator's DPS now appears to be even more incorrect than it was, probably just a quirk with the recent formatting.

Any confirmation on the Valiant's spare ammo?

It depends on how the refire rate is being calculated in the formula. In my rebalancing mod of SP while I was doing the Incisor I noticed that the refire timer starts from the moment you click the mouse, rather then from when the last bullet in the burst fires.

The Vindicator has a rate of fire of 550 which means it takes 0.11 seconds per bullet, or 0.33 to fire off an entire burst. Since the min refire rate is 0.25 seconds, it doesn't come into play, but you do notice a slight delay before you can fire a second burst because of the rate of fire wanting you to wait 0.11 seconds first.

I only use the min refire rate in the calculation if the refire rate is longer than it takes to fire a burst.

Unless someone with a Valiant X can confirm how much ammo it has, I don't know. I only have a Valiant II right now. I can confirm that at II it has 31 spare ammo.

Had  you made this post 10 minutes earlier - would've tested and provided in game milisecond delay between shots//bursts  ...  Next time  

Also regarding to topic .. I can measure Real DPS inflicted to target in game atm with any weapon ... (single or multiclip )
...

Modifié par peddroelmz, 17 septembre 2012 - 06:50 .

[Cyonan]

PeskySquirrel wrote...

Thanks. I went back to search earlier posts for specific descriptions on some of the row headers and noticed you had addressed this already - sorry, should have just read the first post.

On that note, would it be possible to post descriptions of the row headers? Some are obvious, but others like Stat Bar Acc and Acc Fire Interp Speed aren't so obvious. I did a search a while back and found that Stat Bar Acc was the length of the accuracy bar on the weapon screen in game but I think it would be good if these descriptions and others were posted. Acc Fire Interp Speed I think is how the accuracy changes as you keep firing but I'm not sure.

I'm not 100% sure on some of them, but the list of ones that might be confusing:

Stat Bar Acc has no actual effect. It's really just a total of a bunch of other variables that make up the things that will decide how accurate the gun is. Changing this doesn't do anything for the gun in-game, and there isn't a stat that's just "accuracy" for guns.

I'll have to do some more tests, but from a couple of weapons tests what I observed is:

Acc Fire Penalty is how much accuracy(how bad your bullet spread is) you lose while firing.

Acc Fire Interp Speed is how long the penalty lasts. Doesn't appear to be measured in seconds or even milliseconds, though.

There are different numbers for if you're zoomed in. The Mattock seems to have a very large accuracy penalty if not zoomed in, but it's hard to test that since you don't get a crosshair unless you're zoomed in.

[PeskySquirrel]

Thanks. What I've been trying to understand is that the talon has a pretty high recoil but when looking at the numbers and comparing them to other weapons like the paladin, they just don't make sense to me.

[peddroelm]

vindicator fired on gold game

START 35.799805
93 35.799805
79 35.799805

485 35.799805
105 35.799805
79 35.799805

324 35.799805
106 35.799805
93 35.799805

298 35.799805
106 35.799805
107 35.799805

245 35.799805
91 35.799805
108 35.799805

252 35.799805
97 35.799805
93 35.799805

257 35.799805
93 35.799805
95 35.799805

325 35.799805
103 35.799805
112 35.799805

732 35.799805 //shooter took extra half second to ajust aim
100 35.799805
104 35.799805

355 35.799805
113 35.799805
97 35.799805

278 35.799805
119 35.799805

403 35.799805
191 35.799805

269 35.799805
104 35.799805
94 35.799805

297 35.799805
92 35.799805
114 35.799805

299 35.799805

250 milliseconds between bursts seems minimum

Modifié par peddroelmz, 17 septembre 2012 - 09:23 .

[Cyonan]

peddroelmz wrote...
250 milliseconds between bursts seems minimum

Is that from start of firing or end of burst?

I'd also ask about the 7.5% increased speed of gold, but that's not enough variance to make enough of a difference.

[peddroelm]

Cyonan wrote...

peddroelmz wrote...
250 milliseconds between bursts seems minimum

Is that from start of firing or end of burst?

I'd also ask about the 7.5% increased speed of gold, but that's not enough variance to make enough of a difference.

first colum is millisecond difference between previous BP trigger (previous shot)  (end of burst)
second is damage inflicted (not relevant here) 

I put empty lines between bursts  (obvious due to the  longer delays )

So burst fire is at about 60000 / 100 = 600 RPM (or lower due to gold speed up)

with ~ 250 millisecond delay between bursts

Modifié par peddroelmz, 17 septembre 2012 - 09:26 .

[Cyonan]

peddroelmz wrote...

first colum is millisecond difference between previous BP trigger (previous shot) (end of burst)
second is damage inflicted (not relevant here)

I put empty lines between bursts (obvious due to the longer delays )

So burst fire is at about 60000 / 100 = 600 RPM (or lower due to gold speed up)

with ~ 250 millisecond delay between bursts

600 RPM is about right for Gold. 550 sped up by 7.5% is 591.25 RPM.

The delay is variable, which can be explained by human element, but the shortest was 245ms, which means 228ms after accounting for the increase in speed. It seems the game wants to wait for the refire rate, but it doesn't always need to wait the full amount?

[Astreon]

Cyonan wrote...
It depends on how the refire rate is being calculated in the formula. In my rebalancing mod of SP while I was doing the Incisor I noticed that the refire timer starts from the moment you click the mouse, rather then from when the last bullet in the burst fires.

Thanks to peddroelmz for testing the Vindicator, it would seem that the minimum refire time of 0.25 applies the instant the 3rd round is fired, meaning the single clip DPS would be:

(16 rounds with 60/550 = 109 ms refire) + (8 rounds with 250 ms refire) = 3.7455 s to empty a clip, assuming a final refire delay before a reload is allowed
(2059.2 damage dealt from a full clip) / 3.7455 s = 549.8 single clip DPS, Vindicator X

In this case, the Vindicator's DPS appears to have been correct on previous revisions of the weapons sheet.
Applying the same logic to the Hornet X gives:

(16 rounds with 60/1000 = 60 ms refire) + (8 rounds with 150 ms refire) = 2.1600 s to empty a clip
(1612.8 damage dealt from a full clip) / 2.1600 s = 746.7 single clip DPS, Hornet X

Applying the same logic to the Incisor X gives:

(10 rounds with 60/450 = 133 ms refire) + (5 rounds with 150 ms refire) = 2.0833 s to empty a clip
(1399.5 damage dealt from a full clip) / 2.0833 s = 671.8 single clip DPS, Incisor X

With the Incisor, the standard shot delay and minimum refire times are pretty close.
All of these numbers are of course ideal, since the readings show things snapping to a discrete time scale as we would expect.

Cyonan wrote...
Unless someone with a Valiant X can confirm how much ammo it has, I don't know. I only have a Valiant II right now. I can confirm that at II it has 31 spare ammo.

As for the Valiant, if it gains a round at just rank 2, I could see it maybe being 30-40 on spare ammo, like the Carnifex?  You're right, we need someone with a higher rank, but not necessarily X, to confirm.

Modifié par Astreon, 17 septembre 2012 - 09:56 .

[peddroelm]

Cyonan wrote...

peddroelmz wrote...

first colum is millisecond difference between previous BP trigger (previous shot) (end of burst)
second is damage inflicted (not relevant here)

I put empty lines between bursts (obvious due to the longer delays )

So burst fire is at about 60000 / 100 = 600 RPM (or lower due to gold speed up)

with ~ 250 millisecond delay between bursts

600 RPM is about right for Gold. 550 sped up by 7.5% is 591.25 RPM.

The delay is variable, which can be explained by human element, but the shortest was 245ms, which means 228ms after accounting for the increase in speed. It seems the game wants to wait for the refire rate, but it doesn't always need to wait the full amount?

don't know .. seems my measuring method is not accurate enough or game not consistent enough to get definitive answers ...  Preferate ROF testing method is measuring number of shots with TC cloak damage bonus because that uses in game time measuring unit 2.5 seconds ... But even that can fail sometimes (striker 5 second cloak bonus weirdness) ...And only works when measuring constant RPM (not for ramp up period analysis )

[Cyonan]

So I ran a weapons test in singleplayer since I can mod anything I want to there. Very easy to figure out which of the two is occurring when I can make it last seconds rather than milliseconds.

Vindicator with 60 RPM and a 3 second refire rate. Needed to wait 3 seconds after the last bullet fired before firing again. I'll update this on the burst fire weapons with min refire rates.

Also, you need to wait the entire refire rate before you can reload, rather than just the normal rate of fire.

Having a min refire rate lower than the rate of fire per bullet allows does absolutely nothing.

[Astreon]

Minor quirk: the Valiant's damage seems to have been reverted to the single player value. It's still 396.2 - 515.5, right?

[Cyonan]

Astreon wrote...

Minor quirk: the Valiant's damage seems to have been reverted to the single player value. It's still 396.2 - 515.5, right?

Yes it is still that.

Once somebody with a Valiant other than I or II tells me how much spare ammo they have, I can figure out the sequence and get that number in there as well.