267 réponses à ce sujet

[King Cousland]

 DA is supposed to be an 18+ game right? So show it in the future! There's no reason BioWare can't be more realistic and mature in things such as sex scenes (yes, I am talking nudity, if games like the Witcher can do it there's no reason BioWare can't), language (they seem reluctant to include any curses beyond "bastard") and general story (this was done reasonably well in Origins, the presence of things like rape, abuse, visible and obvious pestilence, povery and suffering, DAII seemed to include less of these aspects) all create (IMHO) a much more mature and gritty game that suits DA. 

EDIT: I use the above suggestions as examples (particulalry the nudity). They are not absolute musts for me (apart from general story). 

EDIT II: Ignore the line about sex scenes. It was a poor choice as an example, particularly in realtion to wanting more maturity. I suggest everybody read  Sylvanpyxie's post on page 6, which articulates what I'm looking for much more eloquently than me. 

Modifié par harkness72, 26 juillet 2012 - 11:46 .

[Fauxnormal]

Every time I see threads like this, I think OP must be just barely eighteen and desperate to be ZOMG SUPAH EDGY AND ALL GROWED UP. /snort.

[King Cousland]

Fauxnormal wrote...

Every time I see threads like this, I think OP must be just barely eighteen and desperate to be ZOMG SUPAH EDGY AND ALL GROWED UP. /snort.

Heh, not at all, I just feel that DA seems to be drifting from the "dark" and "mature" RPG series that it first established itself as. 

[Warden661]

Just because it holds an 18+ rating doesn't mean it has to have all of those "mature" aspects. The ESRB gave DA2 that rating for the exact reasons it gives on the back of the case. Something tells me that you played the Witcher 2 and now think that every Medieval fantasy RPG should be exactly like that. DA just isn't that kind of game. If you don't like it, I'm sure you can find plenty of things on the internet to feed your "mature" desires.

[wsandista]

BoBear wrote...

Just because it holds an 18+ rating doesn't mean it has to have all of those "mature" aspects. The ESRB gave DA2 that rating for the exact reasons it gives on the back of the case. Something tells me that you played the Witcher 2 and now think that every Medieval fantasy RPG should be exactly like that. DA just isn't that kind of game. If you don't like it, I'm sure you can find plenty of things on the internet to feed your "mature" desires.

Funny I have both DA2 and TW2 and here are what they are both reated M(by ESRB) for

DA2:Bood and Gore, Language,Sexual Content, Violence

TW2:Blood and Gore,Intense Violence,Nudity,Strong Language,Strong Sexual Content,Use of Drugs

So other than nudity and drug use, DA2 and TW2 both have similar factors that contrubute to their rating.

So why doesn't DA2 deal with complex issues like TW2 does? They both actually bring up things like rape, racism, political intrigue, etc. The difference is that TW2 explicitly depicts them, while DA2 mentions them in conversation but the PC is removed from witnessing them.

Modifié par wsandista, 21 juillet 2012 - 03:24 .

[Fauxnormal]

harkness72 wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...

Every time I see threads like this, I think OP must be just barely eighteen and desperate to be ZOMG SUPAH EDGY AND ALL GROWED UP. /snort.

Heh, not at all, I just feel that DA seems to be drifting from the "dark" and "mature" RPG series that it first established itself as. 

Sure, tweenie. Sure.

[CarlSpackler]

Sadly when many gamers use the word mature they make it a synonym for puerile.

[Warden661]

wsandista wrote...

Funny I have both DA2 and TW2 and here are what they are both reated M(by ESRB) for

DA2:Bood and Gore, Language,Sexual Content, Violence

TW2:Blood and Gore,Intense Violence,Nudity,Strong Language,Strong Sexual Content,Use of Drugs

So other than nudity and drug use, DA2 and TW2 both have similar factors that contrubute to their rating.

So why doesn't DA2 deal with complex issues like TW2 does? They both actually bring up things like rape, racism, political intrigue, etc. The difference is that TW2 explicitly depicts them, while DA2 mentions them in conversation but the PC is removed from witnessing them.

And it's that reason that makes them different games. Yes they have those same aspects and both deal with those same issues but TW2 is more extreme in its presentation. Why does DA have to be that extreme as well? I'm not against nudity in video games but I don't think it needs to show up in every game with an M rating just because it has an M rating.

[Fredward]

Fauxnormal wrote...

harkness72 wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...

Every time I see threads like this, I think OP must be just barely eighteen and desperate to be ZOMG SUPAH EDGY AND ALL GROWED UP. /snort.

Heh, not at all, I just feel that DA seems to be drifting from the "dark" and "mature" RPG series that it first established itself as. 

Sure, tweenie. Sure.

MATURITY AT IT'S GREATEST LADIES AND GENTLEMAN! 


I wouldn't mind a darker STORY to be sure but I'm not really sure if that needs to go with the 18+ rating. I mean what gave DA2 that rating anyway? The word "bastard" and "****" which basically boil down to YOU MEANY! Or was it the exploding mannequins filled with strawberry jam? I dunno, why even bother confininf yourself to an 18+ audience (at least technically, show me how that stops anyone from the playing the game) if your game is like My LIttle Pony with Jam Bombs?

The Witcher is one of the darker games I've played but Origins was just fine, I would've liked it a little darker but DA2 seemed like a kids game in comparison, the world, especially Kirkwall which was supposed to be an awful place, lost it's gravitas for me.

[Fauxnormal]

More tweenies.

/snerk.

[Fallstar]

Whoever rated DA2 probably gave it an 18 because they thought it was one of those OTT gore and violence games, as everyone detonated when you breathed too hard on release. There's certainly nothing else in the game that'd get more than a 12.

[Fauxnormal]

You amuse me.

[Cultist]

Fauxnormal you can scream "tweenie tweenie tweenie" all you want, it won't change the fact that DA2 could be called "dark fantasy" only as a joke. And Witcher 2 beaten DA completely in terms of dark fantasy athmosphere, because it did not implemented "brutality and sex for the sake of brutality and sex".

And it's that reason that makes them different games. Yes they have those same aspects and both deal with those same issues but TW2 is more extreme in its presentation. Why does DA have to be that extreme as well? I'm not against nudity in video games but I don't think it needs to show up in every game with an M rating just because it has an M rating.

Dragon Age already degenerated to jRPG slasher for kids. They turned sexual scenes into a joke with all that clothed sex and whiny romances. It is unimaginable to see something like any of Witcher 2 sexual scenes in DA anymore - just not their level. Apart from sexual content, we won't see brutal and dark actions like slicing child's throat or darkspawn executing a soldier. And it's not different games - it WAS present in DA: Origins and were cut in DA2.

[Fauxnormal]

Mmm-hmmm. Kay, kiddo.

[PhillyB]

Fauxnormal wrote...

Every time I see threads like this, I think OP must be just barely eighteen and desperate to be ZOMG SUPAH EDGY AND ALL GROWED UP. /snort.

Very insightful. Would you like to explain why you feel that this concept is rather ridiculous, or do you
feel that your one line of text is sufficient? 

Modifié par PhillyB, 21 juillet 2012 - 04:52 .

[Fallstar]

Fauxnormal wrote...

Mmm-hmmm. Kay, kiddo.

This wins constructive post of the year. 

[Fauxnormal]

Nope.

It's more fun to mock you and laugh as you RAEG.

[Amycus89]

I think it was that "lower... LOWER:blink:" scene in the sebastian DLC that contributed to that "sexual content" label... or at least so I read in a local newspaper right before DA2 was to be released.

Either way, I don't care one bit about nudity myself, but I would like a "darker" story, that is, bringing up issues like public executions, rapism, child labour, torture, prostitution, drug use, people who kill to preserve their family's honour (not sure about the english word for that). Simply make the world around you seem like a much darker and untrustworthy place to be in. It would make it easier to justify playing as an "evil" character, as well as more fun to play as a goody two-shoes.

One thing I've always found odd is that prostitution seems to be viewed in quite a... positive light in the DA games. While there is nothing wrong with showing different perspectives of an issue, it hasn't been viewed as anything bad at all - except that Gamlen doesnt want your mother to hear about him being there in DA2..

Modifié par Amycus89, 21 juillet 2012 - 05:05 .

[Sundance31us]

If I wanted porn I'd buy it or better yet go for the real thing...I don't need that from a game.

[Realmzmaster]

wsandista wrote...

BoBear wrote...

Just because it holds an 18+ rating doesn't mean it has to have all of those "mature" aspects. The ESRB gave DA2 that rating for the exact reasons it gives on the back of the case. Something tells me that you played the Witcher 2 and now think that every Medieval fantasy RPG should be exactly like that. DA just isn't that kind of game. If you don't like it, I'm sure you can find plenty of things on the internet to feed your "mature" desires.

Funny I have both DA2 and TW2 and here are what they are both reated M(by ESRB) for

DA2:Bood and Gore, Language,Sexual Content, Violence

TW2:Blood and Gore,Intense Violence,Nudity,Strong Language,Strong Sexual Content,Use of Drugs

So other than nudity and drug use, DA2 and TW2 both have similar factors that contrubute to their rating.

So why doesn't DA2 deal with complex issues like TW2 does? They both actually bring up things like rape, racism, political intrigue, etc. The difference is that TW2 explicitly depicts them, while DA2 mentions them in conversation but the PC is removed from witnessing them.

You will note the differences in the descriptions. DA2 has Violence. TW2 has Intense Violence. DA2 has Sexual Content. TW2 has Strong Sexual Content. DA2 has Language. TW2 has Strong Language. Now add in that TW2 has drug use and nudity and you have the difference. TW2 is stronger in its use of the content.TW2 just barely escapes the AO rating which would put it a 18+ because it does not have prolonged scenes of intense violence and/or nudity.

DA2 would have a teen rating but it does have sexual content so that places it in the M rating. It would required even more categories to break the rating down further. It would approach the methods used to grade comics, stamps or coins. I doubt developers or raters want to get than descriptive with their ratings.

[Zkyire]

harkness72 wrote...

 DA is supposed to be an 18+ game right? So show it in the future! There's no reason BioWare can't be more realistic and mature in things such as sex scenes (yes, I am talking nudity, if games like the Witcher can do it there's no reason BioWare can't), language (they seem reluctant to include any curses beyond "bastard") and general story (this was done reasonably well in Origins, the presence of things like rape, abuse, visible and obvious pestilence, povery and suffering, DAII seemed to include less of these aspects) all create (IMHO) a much more mature and gritty game that suits DA. 

"No spoilers allowed" don't wanna break that, but, what happes to Leandra is pretty dark, isn't it? i agree that the series could do with being a bit more like that, (as it was, DA2 felt a bit cartoony, like everything was a joke to Hawke, nothing really mattered to him/her).

[Wulfram]

Nudity, I'd personally prefer to avoid anything more than the Liara scenes in ME1 and ME3.

As for poverty and disease, I thought Origins did well enough. As it did with rape in the City Elf origin - I don't think there's need for anything more explicit than that. DA2 did struggle to show poverty very successfully - Darktown and the Alienage weren't done very well.

I do think it's important not to go too far with this though. One of the flaws of DA2 was that it never really gave us any reason to see Kirkwall as anything more than a pretty crappy oppressive place to live. And if you don't care about the setting, it can be hard to care about the story.

[AkiKishi]

Zkyire wrote...

harkness72 wrote...

 DA is supposed to be an 18+ game right? So show it in the future! There's no reason BioWare can't be more realistic and mature in things such as sex scenes (yes, I am talking nudity, if games like the Witcher can do it there's no reason BioWare can't), language (they seem reluctant to include any curses beyond "bastard") and general story (this was done reasonably well in Origins, the presence of things like rape, abuse, visible and obvious pestilence, povery and suffering, DAII seemed to include less of these aspects) all create (IMHO) a much more mature and gritty game that suits DA. 

"No spoilers allowed" don't wanna break that, but, what happes to Leandra is pretty dark, isn't it? i agree that the series could do with being a bit more like that, (as it was, DA2 felt a bit cartoony, like everything was a joke to Hawke, nothing really mattered to him/her).

It should have been but it was obvious and cheesy it was hard not to laugh. Hawke has a great capacity for moving on at lightning speed too...

[Zkyire]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Zkyire wrote...

harkness72 wrote...

 DA is supposed to be an 18+ game right? So show it in the future! There's no reason BioWare can't be more realistic and mature in things such as sex scenes (yes, I am talking nudity, if games like the Witcher can do it there's no reason BioWare can't), language (they seem reluctant to include any curses beyond "bastard") and general story (this was done reasonably well in Origins, the presence of things like rape, abuse, visible and obvious pestilence, povery and suffering, DAII seemed to include less of these aspects) all create (IMHO) a much more mature and gritty game that suits DA. 

"No spoilers allowed" don't wanna break that, but, what happes to Leandra is pretty dark, isn't it? i agree that the series could do with being a bit more like that, (as it was, DA2 felt a bit cartoony, like everything was a joke to Hawke, nothing really mattered to him/her).

It should have been but it was obvious and cheesy it was hard not to laugh. Hawke has a great capacity for moving on at lightning speed too...

Aye, that's why I never *felt* for the Hawke character. Horrible thing happens to his mother -> forgets about it in short order.

Dragon Age is a series where horrible things are constantly happening, but we're rarely shown them explicitly, and even when we are, we're rarely shown the lasting consequences.

[King Cousland]

Zkyire wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Zkyire wrote...

harkness72 wrote...

 DA is supposed to be an 18+ game right? So show it in the future! There's no reason BioWare can't be more realistic and mature in things such as sex scenes (yes, I am talking nudity, if games like the Witcher can do it there's no reason BioWare can't), language (they seem reluctant to include any curses beyond "bastard") and general story (this was done reasonably well in Origins, the presence of things like rape, abuse, visible and obvious pestilence, povery and suffering, DAII seemed to include less of these aspects) all create (IMHO) a much more mature and gritty game that suits DA. 

"No spoilers allowed" don't wanna break that, but, what happes to Leandra is pretty dark, isn't it? i agree that the series could do with being a bit more like that, (as it was, DA2 felt a bit cartoony, like everything was a joke to Hawke, nothing really mattered to him/her).

It should have been but it was obvious and cheesy it was hard not to laugh. Hawke has a great capacity for moving on at lightning speed too...

Aye, that's why I never *felt* for the Hawke character. Horrible thing happens to his mother -> forgets about it in short order.

Dragon Age is a series where horrible things are constantly happening, but we're rarely shown them explicitly, and even when we are, we're rarely shown the lasting consequences.

Exactly. A lot of the things that were intended as dark in DAII just felt like Stephen King guest wrote for Scooby Doo. 

Regarding what Amycus89 said, nudity isn't an absolute must for me I was more just using it as an example. I completely agree that DA should deal more with those darker issues to make Thedas feel like a harsher, more unforgiving place.