267 réponses à ce sujet

[King Cousland]

Cultist wrote...

Nyoka wrote...

More maturity would mean to me more politics and less mook killing, especially if you're a person of influence like post-deep roads Hawke. Getting out of all the problems by stabbing people in the face doesn't strike me as a mature picture.

Unfortunately this goes against five million years of role playing tradition but Bioware prides itself on being innovative.

On the contrary. Killing everyone and solving problems only with battles is immature. But politics and making hard decisions are.  Let's say - if you romanced Morrigan and in DA3 your new character somehow meet her and have to choose whom to sacrificeturn to templarsor else - her or her child. Choosing sides where you can't be friend with everyone.
That kind of decision is mature, not simple killing or nudity.

I'm pretty sure that's what Nyoka was saying. Less combat and more politics is also something that I'd hope for. A Day In Court and A Brewing Conspiracy in Awakening were both quests that I enjoyed, and I'd like to see more quests in that format, but with further reaching consequences and more difficult decisions. 

[Realmzmaster]

Nyoka wrote...

I was thinking more of something like... *improvising now*

For instance, the Viscount and Meredith could use your sibling as a hostage to influence you into supporting the templars and not the mages... but the Viscount also knows that you are the only person in Kirkwall the qunari Arishok respects enough as to talk with him, so that's something YOU can use to get your way, especially if you have the approval of important people like Cullen and Magistrate Vanard... but you can't get too confrontational about that, because you're a public figure now, one of the powers in Kirkwall, and open hostility among the ruling class might scare your friends away, and convince the Arishok that the city is a basket case, triggering the attack...

Or let's suppose you're a vocal qunari and mage supporter and your sibling got killed in the deep roads so they have no leverage on you. That may lead the Viscount to grow desperate about the situation with the qunari, maybe to the point of seeking help from the Coterie to organize the assassination of the Arishok, in the hopes that the rest will scatter once they're devoid of leadership. You get to know this because of Athenril/Meeran and Tomwise. You could warn the Arishok, try to sabotage the attack, or confront the Viscount... but this is getting too long...

Also, I think there should be more ways to lose than by being killed in a fight. What if you play a total douchebag that kills guards and templars in daylight, openly supports blood mages, mocks influential people, rivals all the companions... that's probably a good excuse to have you banished from Kirkwall right after Act 2, thus losing the game. Just like that, the higher class fabricated a case against you (you were a qunari sympathizer or whatever) and nobody bothered to help you.

I'm not saying THIS IS HOW IT HAS TO BE, I'm just brainstorming... this kind of intrigue and maneuvering looks interesting to me. Situations where you have to think hard and be smart or you could lose everything, regardless of how much damage your dagger+1 deals.

I like the brainstorming. The problem is that what you suggest then forces gamers to play a certain way to avoid the part that is bolded  or anything like it especially if the game ends because of it. Gamers can accept the game ending because of the character's death but not because they are roleplaying a certain way.

[Fast Jimmy]

It doesn't force them anymore than the current model does. It just offers a 'bad ending'/game over if they run aroun like a bull in a china shop.

I love games that let me go up to any random civilian and take them down (see Fallout or Arcanum) but then make that decision haunt me. Having such freedom gives you the ability to role play however you feel, provided you don't mind paying the price.

I think playing a Hawke who was banished in Act 2 and given a game over scene of being kicked out by the nobles after killing Sister Patriece because I knew exactly where her motives and goals were leading would have been a better ending than the one we got. Instead, we're forced to accommodate every person in the city, even when we know (even without meta-game knowledge) that they are crazy, disturbed, power hungry and/or dangerous to the extreme.

If killing Sister Patriece even resulted in Meredith killing my sibling, and then I had to deal with the reactions from my companions and mother, that would have been great story-telling. Or if provoking the Arishok early on would have resulted in never seeig Isabella again, or being seen as too Blood Mage friendly would have lost you Sebastian and Fenris... There are lots of options to integrate said politics. And even a game over scene of 'losing' for what my character believes are the right reasons would have been a blast to play.

[AngryFrozenWater]

I really do not get the maturity level of DA2. Chopping someone's head off is OK, but showing a nipple is taboo. It looks to me like a surreal movie in Disney style: "decapitation for the whole family".

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 12 août 2012 - 08:04 .

[Baronesa]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I really do not get the maturity level of DA2. Chopping someone's head off is OK, but showing a nipple is taboo. It looks to me like surreal movie in Disney style: "decapitation for the whole family".

You mean like on ME3 headshots that make the whole head explode, or even some weapons that make the whole body explode... yet the shower scene is shown with undies?

Yeah... Sex and Violence are treated with different standards, what an hypocritical surprise

Modifié par Baronesa, 12 août 2012 - 07:53 .

[Realmzmaster]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

It doesn't force them anymore than the current model does. It just offers a 'bad ending'/game over if they run aroun like a bull in a china shop.

I love games that let me go up to any random civilian and take them down (see Fallout or Arcanum) but then make that decision haunt me. Having such freedom gives you the ability to role play however you feel, provided you don't mind paying the price.

I think playing a Hawke who was banished in Act 2 and given a game over scene of being kicked out by the nobles after killing Sister Patriece because I knew exactly where her motives and goals were leading would have been a better ending than the one we got. Instead, we're forced to accommodate every person in the city, even when we know (even without meta-game knowledge) that they are crazy, disturbed, power hungry and/or dangerous to the extreme.

If killing Sister Patriece even resulted in Meredith killing my sibling, and then I had to deal with the reactions from my companions and mother, that would have been great story-telling. Or if provoking the Arishok early on would have resulted in never seeig Isabella again, or being seen as too Blood Mage friendly would have lost you Sebastian and Fenris... There are lots of options to integrate said politics. And even a game over scene of 'losing' for what my character believes are the right reasons would have been a blast to play.

I see what you are saying, but it still requires that the gamer roleplay the character a certain way to get to Act 3.

I do not think that Hawke should get banished for killing Petrice. Hawke should be arrested by Aveline. I would like to see  a companion try to find evidence of the conspiracy to exonerate Hawke. A trial would be held. Hawke would come before Magistrate Vanard. Depending on what Hawke did in Magistrate's Orders Vanard could be a friend or enemy. If Magistrate Orders was not done then Vanard would be neutral.
If the companion fails then Hawke gets hanged or the companions can try a jailbreak. Hawke becomes a fugitive. Aveline has to make a decision whether to aid Hawke (losing her position)  or hunt  Hawke down. The gamer then gets the choice of assuming the role of Aveline or Hawke. If Aveline corners Hawke she kills Hawke or Hawke kills her and escapes then you get the game over scene with epilogue slides of what happened to the companions especially if they aided Hawke in the jailbreak.

If Hawke is exonerated the game continues.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 13 août 2012 - 01:26 .

[EricHVela]

In the end, a game that is more mature is one that also makes you think, makes you examine your choices carefully and question your own sensibilities regarding your choices.

The "Your Mom Hates Dead Space 2" campaign focused on those people with moms (kids) that want to play something that's too cool for parents to understand (kids) despite the rating suggesting it is for players older than the targeted audience (kids). Is that what we call maturity?

The specific content that make many games rated M often has nothing to do with maturity but, often, quite the opposite. These days, rated M seems to be a way of marketing a game to kids.

"Reality" [sic] in certain settings might involve sex, nudity, violence and "strong" language, but if that's all there is in it, why bother? It might as well be porn. Throw in some bow-chicka-wow-wow and you're done.

Keep your sex scene, keep your rape and keep your nudity if you can give me a game with good gameplay (which making your character have sex has nothing to do with gameplay) and a compelling story (which doesn't require a game to be rated M).

Maturity respects the audience. (Yet, lets face it. EA's tendencies suggest to me that it does anything but that.)

[Cygnus x1]

I'm a DAO ,DA2,Witcher 1 & 2 ,ME1 & 2 ,AlphaProtocol Fan
Yeah Witcher 2 is R rated but once you get into the story its a great ride and should not be criticized for includeing nudity.
They can all co-exist, just as R rated movies that include or exclude nudity.
At the time that there was no maturity rateing on games,developers were slammed for violence ect.
Then Senator Lieberman demanded a rateing system.

At first I was angry but the end result was that a developer could push the maturity and content to the edge as long as they rated the game 18+ , At that point parents had to take responsability, and be parents and make parental decisions by looking at the games rateing.

18 and above could decide If they wanted mature content whatever that content might be.And Developers gained the freedom to decide on the maturity level that their product was intended for.

[PounceTeazle]

The day a little bit of nudity on screen has less meaning than exploding people decorating house walls with there innards I will stop to consider the world as pretty insane.
Hello? Here we have two consenting adults doing something because they like each other very much, there you have an maniac with an 2 meter sword cutting people in half (justified or not, I sometimes wish for that option too)
I do not care for or against outplayed sex scenes as long i can esc over them and get on with the story but wonder how much more impact on rating nude adult fun has compared to splattering peoples bodyparts over sidewalks.

[Catroi]

I totally agree with OP, heck Mass Effect 1 had mature sex scene, with the Dragon Age games and ME2&3 it seems like they think we are some kind of kiddos who don't know what sex is supposed to be 0_o

Modifié par Catroi, 05 septembre 2012 - 04:18 .

[schalafi]

A lot of the plots for the game that are being suggested are interesting. Some are a bit far out, as rpgs usually don't kill off their protagonists, but the idea of more politics and less killing might be good, although, again, in traditional rpgs battle is one of the main elements, and I don't think that is going to be changed dramatically.

As far as more mature sex scenes, that is something I wonder about. Is this Bioware's choice, or are they being held back by EA? I don't know, but it strikes me as odd that when my fem Hawke is out on the street she can run around in her undies, but in a romance scene she and her partner are fully clothed, even to wearing their boots.

I really hope DA3 will be more like Mass Effect 3 in the romance aspect, and stop treating us like kids, (who probably wouldn't bat an eye at a nude/partly nude scene, considering what they are exposed to on TV and the internet!)

[Uccio]

[quote]schalafi wrote...

A lot of the plots for the game that are being suggested are interesting. Some are a bit far out, as rpgs usually don't kill off their protagonists, but the idea of more politics and less killing might be good, although, again, in traditional rpgs battle is one of the main elements, and I don't think that is going to be changed dramatically.

As far as more mature sex scenes, that is something I wonder about. Is this Bioware's choice, or are they being held back by EA? I don't know, but it strikes me as odd that when my fem Hawke is out on the street she can run around in her undies, but in a romance scene she and her partner are fully clothed, even to wearing their boots.

I really hope DA3 will be more like Mass Effect 3 in the romance aspect, and stop treating us like kids, (who probably wouldn't bat an eye at a nude/partly nude scene, considering what they are exposed to on TV and the internet!)[/quote]


Indeed. Kids these days have seen tons of internet porn and some game pixel is not going to shock them.

Modifié par Ukki, 05 septembre 2012 - 06:32 .

[Emzamination]

Ukki wrote...



Indeed. Kids these days have seen tons of internet porn and some game pixel is not going to shock them

You don't know what kids these days are viewing on the Internet.What a sickening and ignorant justification.

Modifié par Emzamination, 05 septembre 2012 - 11:51 .

[schalafi]

Emzamination wrote...

Ukki wrote...



Indeed. Kids these days have seen tons of internet porn and some game pixel is not going to shock them

You don't know what kids these days are viewing on the Internet.What a sickening and ignorant justification.

No, we don't really know what kids in general are viewing on the internet, but it's out there and unless they are continually supervised they will run across it.
That's not a justification at all, you just assumed that. What I was saying was porn is readily avaible for those who seek it, and the only ones who can limit kids viewing it are parents.

[wsandista]

Emzamination wrote...

Ukki wrote...



Indeed. Kids these days have seen tons of internet porn and some game pixel is not going to shock them

You don't know what kids these days are viewing on the Internet.What a sickening and ignorant justification.

Are you seriously going to argue that the majority of seventeen year-olds don't watch porn? Let alone the group of seventeen year-olds who would buy DA?

[Ninja Stan]

And now it's gotten political, so it gets closed.

End of line.