267 réponses à ce sujet

[Nerdage]

harkness72 wrote...

 DA is supposed to be an 18+ game right? So show it in the future! There's no reason BioWare can't be more realistic and mature in things such as sex scenes (yes, I am talking nudity, if games like the Witcher can do it there's no reason BioWare can't)

Just because they can... I still don't understand the appeal of watching the characters have sex; I don't see how it improves anything, espeically when the animations let them down as often as not and make the whole thing quite jarring. For my money DA2 was the best Bioware has handled those scenes, I don't have to watch the characters awkwardly writhe around for 30 seconds, but there was some kind of display of intimacy that was unique to the character; all the interesting character bits, none of the fat (so to speak).

language (they seem reluctant to include any curses beyond "bastard")

Maybe it's just me but more often than not actors trying some swear words sound really forced, I'd say the words the writers chose were safe not in terms of vulgarity but acting, and I think it was a good call (maybe it's lost in translation but all the swearing in the early part of TW2 made me cringe, really awful).

and general story (this was done reasonably well in Origins, the presence of things like rape, abuse, visible and obvious pestilence, povery and suffering, DAII seemed to include less of these aspects)

I might agree on this in part. Lowtown, including the alienage, really didn't seem as bad as it was made out to be, save for all the bandits at night but they're all over the city anyway. I don't want loads of oppressive tales from everyone I meet, but there were elements that were meant to exist (characters kept mentioning them) which didn't seem to be there. In terms of things that happen in the story though, I don't have such a problem with that.

[wsandista]

Realmzmaster wrote...

You will note the differences in the descriptions. DA2 has Violence. TW2 has Intense Violence. DA2 has Sexual Content. TW2 has Strong Sexual Content. DA2 has Language. TW2 has Strong Language. Now add in that TW2 has drug use and nudity and you have the difference. TW2 is stronger in its use of the content.TW2 just barely escapes the AO rating which would put it a 18+ because it does not have prolonged scenes of intense violence and/or nudity.

I won't dispute that TW2 has much stronger violence and language than DA2 (sexual content, if taken seperately from nudity, is about the same). I just don't see why DA2 can't show racism as explicitly as TW2, or have political intrigue as comnplex as that present in TW2. 

I believe that TW2 should have gotten a AO rating BTW. Then again I believe that there should be more AO games that are more than sexploitation games.

[Cultist]

You have to work really really really really hard to get Adults Only rating. There's only 21 games that get AO. And only Manhunt 2 get it due to violence, others are sex-related. It is almost impossible to step beyond M.

[SafetyShattered]

Seriously? Why do we need nudity in a videogame for it to be considered mature? I mean look at the sex mini-games in the first two God of War games. There was nothing mature about how it was handled. It was just like naked women......DO EM! Just because a game has sex and nudity doesn't make it mature. DAO didn't have complete nudity or strong sexual content in it and I believe that it was exactly the amount of maturity and grittiness that I enjoy in my videogames. I do agree though that I wish DA2 had a darker story.

[PhillyB]

Cultist wrote...

You have to work really really really really hard to get Adults Only rating. There's only 21 games that get AO. And only Manhunt 2 get it due to violence, others are sex-related. It is almost impossible to step beyond M.

I was under the impression that Manhunt 2 was given an AO solely because of the Wii port.

[AkiKishi]

Shadowfang12 wrote...

Seriously? Why do we need nudity in a videogame for it to be considered mature? I mean look at the sex mini-games in the first two God of War games. There was nothing mature about how it was handled. It was just like naked women......DO EM! Just because a game has sex and nudity doesn't make it mature. DAO didn't have complete nudity or strong sexual content in it and I believe that it was exactly the amount of maturity and grittiness that I enjoy in my videogames. I do agree though that I wish DA2 had a darker story.

You don't. But you do not shy away from and make it PG-13 if you are going to tackle the subject.

The story of DA2 is plenty dark. But the presentation is not. As someone apptly put it it's like Stephen King writing for a Scoobie Doo episode.
If CDPR had been given that story then we would probably be huddled under out beds

[Cimeas]

Senseless violence is stupid. A blade does not just slice someone's arm off, it just doesn't happen. Why do I want to watch sex scenes in game?

In TW2, basically every woman apart from Triss seems to be raped, and the ones that aren't are either hinted at going to be raped or able to have sex with Geralt. Sure, some scenes are shocking, the elf sex slave who is pregnant in the back room of the mayor's house, for example, but after a while, especially after Ves, it gets boring.

Maturity doesn't have to be rape, it doesn't have to be s***** game of thrones. It can be about humanity, about what war does, what poverty does, the unfairness of society, philosophical questions etc...

[elfdwarf]

dragon age 2 has rape ,murder ,mutilation of dead & living ,kidnapping ,slavery ,and corrupt politician

[InfinitePaths]

harkness72 wrote...

 DA is supposed to be an 18+ game right? So show it in the future! There's no reason BioWare can't be more realistic and mature in things such as sex scenes (yes, I am talking nudity, if games like the Witcher can do it there's no reason BioWare can't), language (they seem reluctant to include any curses beyond "bastard") and general story (this was done reasonably well in Origins, the presence of things like rape, abuse, visible and obvious pestilence, povery and suffering, DAII seemed to include less of these aspects) all create (IMHO) a much more mature and gritty game that suits DA. 

Yes I want it as in The Witcher 2 so much.The blood,violence,maturity,nudity,sex,YES! 

IMO Neither DA2 and Neither Origins did it properly...

[MichaelStuart]

I have always ignore age ratings on games/films. The only one qualified to judge what games/films are suitable for me, is me.

I believe a game/film should never work to forwards a specific age rating. If a game/film requires a scene that some people might find disturbing it should still be put in, but if the scene is not required then it should not be put in.
A lot of scenes that are often classed as mature are not really required to seen, as they work better when implied.

[InfinitePaths]

Modifié par HeriocGreyWarden, 21 juillet 2012 - 08:30 .

[InfinitePaths]

Sundance31us wrote...

If I wanted porn I'd buy it or better yet go for the real thing...I don't need that from a game.

Its not about getting a boner or getting wet.It is about showing maturity,rape and violance it how It really is.It is much better to get in the theme and the atmopshere of  the game when the game actually shows you what is happening ,not just a black screen.Hawke says he had Sex(After completing romance) but it never shows it.Some people were raped but it never showed it.Its like People talk that Hawke killed The Arishock but instead they never show It and we get a black screen istead of killing The Arisock...

Modifié par HeriocGreyWarden, 21 juillet 2012 - 08:32 .

[Cultist]

The point is - sex scenes are absolutely optional. BUT. If you implement them, then do them properly. Do not turn them into a laughing stock and parody. If you add violence and want to present your game as a "Dark Fantasy" then do it properly. Do not turn darkspawn into a cartoonish mumbo-jumbos and turn templars into a school bullies. Make violence and horrors of the medieval worlds really dark and "real", at least as far as computer game allows us to make them real.

[InfinitePaths]

Cultist wrote...

The point is - sex scenes are absolutely optional. BUT. If you implement them, then do them properly. Do not turn them into a laughing stock and parody. If you add violence and want to present your game as a "Dark Fantasy" then do it properly. Do not turn darkspawn into a cartoonish mumbo-jumbos and turn templars into a school bullies. Make violence and horrors of the medieval worlds really dark and "real", at least as far as computer game allows us to make them real.

This!

[mopotter]

BoBear wrote...

wsandista wrote...

Funny I have both DA2 and TW2 and here are what they are both reated M(by ESRB) for

DA2:Bood and Gore, Language,Sexual Content, Violence

TW2:Blood and Gore,Intense Violence,Nudity,Strong Language,Strong Sexual Content,Use of Drugs

So other than nudity and drug use, DA2 and TW2 both have similar factors that contrubute to their rating.

So why doesn't DA2 deal with complex issues like TW2 does? They both actually bring up things like rape, racism, political intrigue, etc. The difference is that TW2 explicitly depicts them, while DA2 mentions them in conversation but the PC is removed from witnessing them.

And it's that reason that makes them different games. Yes they have those same aspects and both deal with those same issues but TW2 is more extreme in its presentation. Why does DA have to be that extreme as well? I'm not against nudity in video games but I don't think it needs to show up in every game with an M rating just because it has an M rating.

Exactly.   There actually is nothing in TW2 that interest me.   The only thing I'd be happy about is if BW would get rid of the underwear.  I wish they would do romance scenes like they did in ME1.  Romantic.  Change it around for different couples but get rid of the underwear.  <sigh>

[mopotter]

HeriocGreyWarden wrote...

Sundance31us wrote...

If I wanted porn I'd buy it or better yet go for the real thing...I don't need that from a game.

Its not about getting a boner or getting wet.It is about showing maturity,rape and violance it how It really is.It is much better to get in the theme and the atmopshere of  the game when the game actually shows you what is happening ,not just a black screen.Hawke says he had Sex(After completing romance) but it never shows it.Some people were raped but it never showed it.Its like People talk that Hawke killed The Arishock but instead they never show It and we get a black screen istead of killing The Arisock...

Wouldn't buy it, wouldn't play it.  I'm sure someone else would but I personally hope they stay away form the Witcher, God of War and whatever else style these cover.

[PsychoBlonde]

CarlSpackler wrote...

Sadly when many gamers use the word mature they make it a synonym for puerile.

Yes.

I'm not particularly interested in playing a game with explicit sex acts and language full of obscenities.  Nor do I think that Bioware should be held responsible for dealing with the ****storm of negative press that would result if they tried to really delve into "complex" topics like these.  CDProjekt is a POLISH company that is not nearly as badly buried under American sensibilities as Bioware, even though the DA2 studio is actually in Canada.

I'll grant you, I thought the romance scenes in ME were really tasteful and well done, but they also resulted in a lot of screeching from the press.

I think the problem currently with video games portraying adult subjects is that too many people see the "game" part as meaning "for kids".  You can put an 18+ rating on them, and it doesn't matter, some hyper-sensitive idiot will still buy it for their 13-year-old and then pitch a fit over it, because GAMES ARE FOR KIDS.  You can't make games like, say, the Watchmen movie, where the naked blue guy and violent rape passed with little comment because it's clear that SOME MOVIES ARE FOR ADULTS.

Do I hope this will change in the future?  Yes.  Do I expect Bioware to put their ass on the line in order to press the point?  No.

Addendum:  You know, it occurs to me that one of the things seriously holding games back in this regard is that no matter how hyper-violent, bloody, and obscenity-filled the game is, marketing still tries to pitch it to youngsters.  I mean, seriously "your mom hates this game"?  It's a bloody, violent slugfest!  Should you REALLY be pitching a game like that to someone who would actually HAVE that kind of puerile motivation?!

If you make a product of a type that it'll probably only appeal to people who might be negatively affected by that product, you have only yourself to blame for the screaming that results.

Modifié par PsychoBlonde, 21 juillet 2012 - 09:19 .

[Uccio]

Cultist wrote...

The point is - sex scenes are absolutely optional. BUT. If you implement them, then do them properly. Do not turn them into a laughing stock and parody. If you add violence and want to present your game as a "Dark Fantasy" then do it properly. Do not turn darkspawn into a cartoonish mumbo-jumbos and turn templars into a school bullies. Make violence and horrors of the medieval worlds really dark and "real", at least as far as computer game allows us to make them real.

Exactly.

[Uccio]

nerdage wrote...

Maybe it's just me but more often than not actors trying some swear words sound really forced, I'd say the words the writers chose were safe not in terms of vulgarity but acting, and I think it was a good call (maybe it's lost in translation but all the swearing in the early part of TW2 made me cringe, really awful).

Well for me TW2 swearing felt more "real" and in character all the time, DA2 just could not deliver at all in that area. The moment where you can sit down with those dwarves in the tavern and drink and talk sh*t is one of the best moments in TW2. The reality of the characters talking just makes you smile, hard life, hard jokes and hard drinks.

Modifié par Ukki, 21 juillet 2012 - 09:37 .

[DiTHmaphacks]

Yeah well.18+ Doesnt only mean more nudage.This game to go back to being great needs to go to a darker color palette.
In my mind DA is a very dark universe.Hunger,conflict,shadow and pain is everywhere. But when you look around you see so many bright colors.The colors should be more dark agey.

We need prisons to have more blood,gutted bodies.I would love to see limbs flying off even be4 a mob is dead.Give us moar horror.

[TEWR]

Regarding the topic, I think DA could stand to be a little bit more mature in various regards. Racism, politics, nudity (which can be done tastefully), etc.

Nudity doesn't require seeing characters have blatant sex. There's tasteful nudity, and then there's getting raunchy nudity.

Fauxnormal wrote...

Every time I see threads like this, I think OP must be just barely eighteen and desperate to be ZOMG SUPAH EDGY AND ALL GROWED UP. /snort.

Do us all a favor: Post something pertinent to the thread and stop being a troll.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 21 juillet 2012 - 10:13 .

[King Cousland]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Regarding the topic, I think DA could stand to be a little bit more mature in various regards. Racism, politics, nudity (which can be done tastefully), etc.

Nudity doesn't require seeing characters have blatant sex. There's tasteful nudity, and then there's getting raunchy nudity.

 

This, pretty much. As I mentioned above, nudity isn't a must for me, at least not Witcher-style, semi-pornographic style, but as many have said, tastefully. Think of the Liara romance in ME for what I'm talking about. It can be done where you know that the characters aren't wearing anything, but anything potentially offensive is just out of shot. Both Origins and DAII felt weird to just see characters writhing about fully clothed. 

[EpicBoot2daFace]

harkness72 wrote...

 DA is supposed to be an 18+ game right? So show it in the future! There's no reason BioWare can't be more realistic and mature in things such as sex scenes (yes, I am talking nudity, if games like the Witcher can do it there's no reason BioWare can't), language (they seem reluctant to include any curses beyond "bastard") and general story (this was done reasonably well in Origins, the presence of things like rape, abuse, visible and obvious pestilence, povery and suffering, DAII seemed to include less of these aspects) all create (IMHO) a much more mature and gritty game that suits DA. 

Yeah, but part of the appeal is the humor. If they took that out, I probably wouldn't play it.

[King Cousland]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

harkness72 wrote...

 DA is supposed to be an 18+ game right? So show it in the future! There's no reason BioWare can't be more realistic and mature in things such as sex scenes (yes, I am talking nudity, if games like the Witcher can do it there's no reason BioWare can't), language (they seem reluctant to include any curses beyond "bastard") and general story (this was done reasonably well in Origins, the presence of things like rape, abuse, visible and obvious pestilence, povery and suffering, DAII seemed to include less of these aspects) all create (IMHO) a much more mature and gritty game that suits DA. 

Yeah, but part of the appeal is the humor. If they took that out, I probably wouldn't play it.

The humour is a big part and I think it's important that they keep it (I don't necessarily think that conflicts with the focus of this thread), but honestly, I feel like it was a bit overdone in DAII. It was included so often (perhaps because of the humorous personality) that it became a bit lifeless and forced. I also noticed it could be quite juvenile (and not in a goofy way like Alistair that could make you chuckle). There were a few lines that brought a smile to my face though. 

Modifié par harkness72, 21 juillet 2012 - 11:29 .

[EpicBoot2daFace]

harkness72 wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

harkness72 wrote...

 DA is supposed to be an 18+ game right? So show it in the future! There's no reason BioWare can't be more realistic and mature in things such as sex scenes (yes, I am talking nudity, if games like the Witcher can do it there's no reason BioWare can't), language (they seem reluctant to include any curses beyond "bastard") and general story (this was done reasonably well in Origins, the presence of things like rape, abuse, visible and obvious pestilence, povery and suffering, DAII seemed to include less of these aspects) all create (IMHO) a much more mature and gritty game that suits DA. 

Yeah, but part of the appeal is the humor. If they took that out, I probably wouldn't play it.

The humour is a big part and I think it's important that they keep it (I don't necessarily think that conflicts with the focus of this thread), but honestly, I feel like it was a bit overdone in DAII. It was included so often (perhaps because of the humorous personality) that it became a bit lifeless and forced. I also noticed it could be quite juvenile (and not in a goofy way like Alistair that could make you chuckle). There were a few lines that brought a smile to my face though. 

I don't recall many instances where humor felt forced in DA2. I mean, other than Hawke being a smart ass. Infact, I probably laughed more while playing Origins thanks to Oghren.

Still, I liked it when Fenris and Anders would always bicker back and forth.