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Mages are NOT overpowered


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#1
Malfurus

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Let me start by stating that everyone has a right to their opinion so I hope you respect mine and try to understand where I'm coming from and I'll try to extend the same courtesy. Having said that:

I understand the concern everyone has with Mages being overpowered and I truly believe if you play the game in Hard mode and so on, the game in itself fixes itself. Let me explain. YES, they may be overpowered in Normal mode, and thats probably why, having created a Mage character, the game was a breeze for me and thats why I went back to play it on Hard mode with a different Mage. And lets clarify, the so called "OP" part of the Mages is the Primal tree, the other trees aren't really that overpowered, not even in Normal mode and that makes sense, since they're not the primary damage tree if you get what I mean.

I truly believe that in Hard mode the power diminishes greatly, yet still making my character a formidable foe. For instance, Easy mode I tended to run behind my tank, cast Flame Blast, followed by Tempest and usually finshing up the combo with Cone of Cold. As soon as they "Defreeze" I would Mind Blast them, while having my other party members continue to damage them. Or in really big fights I would cast Inferno, then Tempest, maybe even Blizzard for the hell of it, gain the aggro, and Forcefield my character. Within a few seconds anything Yellow is dead and usually most Oranges are almost dead (Excluding big fights like High Dragon)s (Yellow and Orange being level of monster etc)
So yes, I agree that was way too easy.

In Hard mode on the other hand I felt like a true RPG mage. Powerful, formidable, but a lot more cautious. I couldn't use the former mothod because I would end up damaging and hurting my party members, which is precisely, in my opinion, what "depowers" the mage. I took more advantage of my single spells, and had to be more careful when I used my AOE spells or else I'd find myself along with my party laying, unmoving on the stone cold floor. Not being able to use Flame Burst, or Fireball, or Tempest, or Inferno or Cone of Cold so easily, it forced me to be more strategic and had me think about what combos I would use, when to use them, and since I wasn't able to spam the above mentioned, it made gameplay more intriguing.

A mage in lore is supposed to be a powerful being, commanding fear, respect or both. He should be able to deal with a group of three soldiers coming after him with relative ease, but when surrounded can just as easily fall. Will you do less damage overall without a Primal mage in your party? Absolutely! Should a Warrior be able to take down four monsters at once as fast or as ferocious as a mage..Absolutely not! He may be able to kill one after the other with somewhat relative ease, but not all at once, AOE shouldn't and is not a warriors job.

So overall, I think (again my opinion) that if the game is played on Hard difficulty setting, which I highly recommend (I don't like my 2h warrior taking down mobs too fast in Normal, I want battles to last longer) then it makes for a much more fascinating, fun, lasting experience and at the same time "depowering" the Mage's abilities but still making him a fearsome foe.

As for those few who don't wish to have a ranged or Mage party member but would rather have a group of four consisting of warriors and rogues and complain that the damage is not up to par and the game is more difficult then I say...good. Its SUPPOSED to be that way. The game mechanics, in fact a lot of games, urge the player to create a party consisting of different classes to be better Equiped in handling a variation of different encounters.

You want to ambush me with a group of melee attackers followed by Rangers? No problemo. I'll send my Tank in, my two handed warrior friend Sten follwing right behind, while my mage casts fireball at the Rangers and we all know what that does hah. Oh you wana throw an enemy mage in that scenario? No problem, Ill send my Tank after him, disrupting his attacks whith the shield, knocking him down, while my Cone of Cold takes care of the enemy Meleers running after my Tank as he pursues the Mage. BAMB! They're frozen. A stone from the ground juts out, BAMB, shatters the ****. Meanwhile my Rogue runs up behind the other frozen one and BAMB, critical hit. Then Maybe I cast Tempest on the rangers, followed by Fireball BAMB...dead. Or maybe I'll sing them a lulluby putting them to sleep and then make sure their sleep is filled with waking Nightmares...oooo aaaah. Maybe Ill stick a bomb on their forehead and kill it, exploding and killing his friends..lovely! lol Anyways point is, theres a lot of different strategies involved and I think the game is superb in itself. Are there things that need fixing? Sure, we can't expect any game developer to come out with such an intricate and fascinating game without a few issues here and there. In the meantime we'll enjoy the game, its massive history and lore and try to be as patient as we can till those issues are resolved. After all, what other option do we have? Quit the game? Yeah.....right. lol Thanks for reading!
:wizard:

Modifié par Malfurus, 18 décembre 2009 - 01:33 .


#2
Skellimancer

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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA



URK!


*Dies*

Modifié par Skellimancer, 18 décembre 2009 - 01:24 .


#3
Wardka

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I'd argue that the real power of the mages is not in the primal tree at all, but in the absurd amount of crowd control, hexes and utility spells they have available. I mean, force field, come on ;)

#4
Viglin

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Not sure why everyone goes nuts over Mages, long as anyone can remember, be it in game or book, Mages start out weak and become Gods.



I myself find it boring playing a Mage, but each to their own.

#5
Skellimancer

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Viglin wrote...

Not sure why everyone goes nuts over Mages, long as anyone can remember, be it in game or book, Mages start out weak and become Gods.

I myself find it boring playing a Mage, but each to their own.


Mages are like starting Baldur's Gate with a Wizard that regens spell memerizations and starts of with 3rd level spells.

#6
Jonfon_ire

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Skellimancer wrote...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA



URK!


*Dies*


*Starts signing the "Ding dong the witch is dead" song and prying the ruby slippers from Skellis feet*
My ruby slippers!! Mine!!!

Personally I tend to find Mages better at wiping out lots of weaker enemies and warriors and rogues better at dishing out the single target damage. Warriors and Rogues seem to take longer to get "Up to speed" compared to Mages though, in terms of levels. Especially Rogues.

Modifié par Jonfon_ire, 18 décembre 2009 - 01:33 .


#7
Viglin

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Skellimancer wrote...

Viglin wrote...

Not sure why everyone goes nuts over Mages, long as anyone can remember, be it in game or book, Mages start out weak and become Gods.

I myself find it boring playing a Mage, but each to their own.


Mages are like starting Baldur's Gate with a Wizard that regens spell memerizations and starts of with 3rd level spells.


Woudld't know, l played a Rogue:)

So your saying they start like...hmm DemiGods?:)

#8
Skellimancer

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Jonfon_ire wrote...

Skellimancer wrote...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA



URK!


*Dies*


*Starts signing the "Ding dong the witch is dead" song and prying the ruby slippers from Skellis feet*
My ruby slippers!! Mine!!!

Personally I tend to find Mages better at wiping out lots of weaker enemies and warriors and rogues better at dishing out the single target damage. Warriors and Rogues seem to take longer to get "Up to speed" compared to Mages though, in terms of levels. Especially Rogues.


Try mana clash at the mages tower. :lol:

#9
LightSabres

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All Mages should be turned into Arcane Warriors. They are TRULEY an overpowered class and I love them for it!



I'll never run another mage without specing them to Arcane Warrior

#10
Skellimancer

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Viglin wrote...

Skellimancer wrote...

Viglin wrote...

Not sure why everyone goes nuts over Mages, long as anyone can remember, be it in game or book, Mages start out weak and become Gods.

I myself find it boring playing a Mage, but each to their own.


Mages are like starting Baldur's Gate with a Wizard that regens spell memerizations and starts of with 3rd level spells.


Woudld't know, l played a Rogue:)

So your saying they start like...hmm DemiGods?:)


Yep! Try one out.

#11
Viglin

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Skellimancer wrote...

Viglin wrote...

Skellimancer wrote...

Viglin wrote...

Not sure why everyone goes nuts over Mages, long as anyone can remember, be it in game or book, Mages start out weak and become Gods.

I myself find it boring playing a Mage, but each to their own.


Mages are like starting Baldur's Gate with a Wizard that regens spell memerizations and starts of with 3rd level spells.


Woudld't know, l played a Rogue:)

So your saying they start like...hmm DemiGods?:)


Yep! Try one out.


I did on DAO, got to like level 7 at Redcliff and got bored.
Or did you mean hunt down my old BG and roll up a Wizard?

Or both, ooh.

#12
mkonrad6288

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"They" patched up some spell durations and cooldowns in the last patch. If "they" thought mages were overpowered, they'd change a few more. Since you assert that mages are overpowered in easy but challenged in hard mode, can you prove that warrior/rogue are underpowered in easy but overpowered in hard. Else, not balanced.



Basically, this isn't going anywhere. Mages were powerful in lore? Something tells me that's not what Bioware balanced the game around. I figure Hercules was pretty strong and I bet he was pretty overpowered. Bioware's job is to make those talent numbers, the cooldowns, mana costs, hit points of the enemies, stuns to your character all balance out for some difficulty level. You say that's done, it's a valid viewpoint. Since you felt the need to make this post, for a topic that's 100% purely speculative opinion, I figure you're looking for everyone to come around to your way of thinking. I doubt it will happen, but, well, good luck.


#13
XOGHunter246

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I respect your opinion no comment

#14
Tirigon

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Atm, I am playing both a dualwielder-warrior and a mage on nightmare. Or rather, I was. I stopped playing the warrior because he was too strong. The Game was too easy and therefore boring. Playing as mage however, the game is very challenging, I have to use all the spells correctly, I have to use strategy. Im spending more time in pause mode than in actual playing to target my spells correctly. If I do everything correctly, my mage is stronger than my Warrior. But if I do something wrong, this equals death in 4 out of 5 cases. With warrior, however, its like "Ah, I just wasted dualsweep. Nevermind, so I hit 2 more times with autoattack and win". Warriors are just boring. You dont have to use talents at all. All you have to do is autoattack an enemy and sometimes swallow a healing pot.

#15
Skellimancer

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Viglin wrote...

Skellimancer wrote...

Viglin wrote...

Skellimancer wrote...

Viglin wrote...

Not sure why everyone goes nuts over Mages, long as anyone can remember, be it in game or book, Mages start out weak and become Gods.

I myself find it boring playing a Mage, but each to their own.


Mages are like starting Baldur's Gate with a Wizard that regens spell memerizations and starts of with 3rd level spells.


Woudld't know, l played a Rogue:)

So your saying they start like...hmm DemiGods?:)


Yep! Try one out.


I did on DAO, got to like level 7 at Redcliff and got bored.
Or did you mean hunt down my old BG and roll up a Wizard?

Or both, ooh.


I quit my DA:O Mage at 14! way overpowered.

#16
XOGHunter246

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the thing about mages in all games is their downfall is their defense and hp if you can get near them easily dead

#17
Skellimancer

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XOGHunter246 wrote...

the thing about mages in all games is their downfall is their defense and hp if you can get near them easily dead


Arcane Warrior much?

#18
XOGHunter246

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Skellimancer wrote...

XOGHunter246 wrote...

the thing about mages in all games is their downfall is their defense and hp if you can get near them easily dead


Arcane Warrior much?

#

Ok with an exception of arcane warrior or battlemage as they use armors

#19
Tonya777

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I read nothing but the title and I agree



Mages are not overpowered in any way at all



Rogues & Warriors are capable of immortality and soloing the entire game too



Rogues & Warriors are capable of actually doing more damage than a mage is even capable of

#20
themaxzero

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As a general rule Arcane Warrior does not make Mages dramatically stronger. If you put massive plate on a Mage the fatigue costs are huge. The best armour you can give a good casting Mage is Medium Wades Dragonscale which gives about the same armour as Reaper's vestments.



My casting Mage runs at about 20 armour. Anymore begins costing heavy fatigue.

#21
Jonfon_ire

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Skellimancer wrote...

Jonfon_ire wrote...

Skellimancer wrote...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA



URK!


*Dies*


*Starts signing the "Ding dong the witch is dead" song and prying the ruby slippers from Skellis feet*
My ruby slippers!! Mine!!!

Personally I tend to find Mages better at wiping out lots of weaker enemies and warriors and rogues better at dishing out the single target damage. Warriors and Rogues seem to take longer to get "Up to speed" compared to Mages though, in terms of levels. Especially Rogues.


Try mana clash at the mages tower. :lol:


I'm not saying Mages aren't the most powerful of the three classes, but from my various characters & NPCs the Warriors and Rogues seem to narrow the gap later on (especially if, like me, you give all meleers at least one point in Poison)

As for Arcane Warriors mine is great, but I really notice the extra mana costs from wearing the armour. Of course I don't bother with carrying billions of mana potions, I try to manage mana using other spells and abilities. 

#22
XOGHunter246

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thats when you become addicted to lyrium

#23
Malfurus

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"Since you assert that mages are overpowered in easy but challenged in hard mode, can you prove that warrior/rogue are underpowered in easy but overpowered in hard. Else, not balanced."


1. I'm not here to prove anything about warriors or rogue, the post was simply to state that in my opinion Mages are more challanged in Hard Mode. The fact that Warriors and Rogues are not as powerful initially, well thats not my concern. At higher levels my 2-handed warrior does massive dmg in one single blow, close to 120 if not more in occasions, my mage does NOT do that with not one single spell that I'm aware of.


"Basically, this isn't going anywhere. Mages were powerful in lore? Something tells me that's not what Bioware balanced the game around."


Of course Bioware put into consideration Lore. Are you joking? Chantry...Mages...Templar...does that mean nothing? The whole idea in the GAME, is that Mages are feared for a REASON, and that reason being is that they command powerful forces that they extract from the Fade. They might have changed Elves into being slaves, rather than their haugty and isolated existence in some magnificent and glorious city hidden by the trees. They might have Dwarves meddling more in political affairs and held steadfast by a caste system, but I assure you, the one thing that did not change is the fact that Mages hold great and terrible power, something that is mentioned over and over again in the lore of Dragon Age.

Modifié par Malfurus, 18 décembre 2009 - 01:59 .


#24
XOGHunter246

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Malfurus wrote...

"Since you assert that mages are overpowered in easy but challenged in hard mode, can you prove that warrior/rogue are underpowered in easy but overpowered in hard. Else, not balanced."
"
1. I'm not here to prove anything about warriors or rogue, the post was simply to state that in my opinion Mages are more challanged in Hard Mode. The fact that Warriors and Rogues are not as powerful initially, well thats not my concern. At higher levels my 2-handed warrior does massive dmg in one single blow, close to 120 if not more in occasions, my mage does NOT do that with not one single spell that I'm aware of.

"Basically, this isn't going anywhere. Mages were powerful in lore? Something tells me that's not what Bioware balanced the game around."

Of course Bioware put into consideration Lore. Are you joking? Chantry...Mages...Templar...does that mean nothing? The whole idea in the GAME, is that Mages are feared for a REASON, and that reason being is that they command powerful forces that they extract from the Fade. They might have changed Elves into being slaves, rather than their haugty and isolated existence in some magnificent and glorious city hidden by the trees. They might have Dwarves meddling more in political affairs and held steadfast by a caste system, but I assure you, the one that did not change is the fact that Mages hold great and terrible power, something that is mentioned over and over again in the lore of Dragon Age.



most classes are challenged as they do less damage to creature though

#25
7a7ec

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I am playing with a mage on nightmare difilcuty and is still too easy ..... But the same could be said about warrior so mages probably arent overpovered ..... Once you learn how to lvl up and which skills and talents to use its no problem to beat the game .....

Modifié par 7a7ec, 18 décembre 2009 - 02:02 .