165 réponses à ce sujet

[XOGHunter246]

I suppose all classes are can be overpowered if you know how to build them the AI is predictable.

Modifié par XOGHunter246, 18 décembre 2009 - 02:06 .

[Tirigon]

7a7ec wrote...

I am playing with a mage on nightmare difilcuty and is still too easy ..... But the same could be said about warrior so mages probably arent overpovered ..... Once you learn how to lvl up and which skills and talents to use its no problem to beat the game .....

It depends. I think its:

• Mage = in theory stronger, but much harder to play
• Warrior= better damage against singletarget, better survivability, better sustainables, but if that is not enough there is less you can do than with a mage
• Rogue: Cant say much to them, I suck with rogues, but AFAIK it´s in between warrior and mage.

What I mean is: With a mage, I do a certain fight. I use my spells wrong, I die in 5 seconds. I reload, use them better, I win without getting wounded at all.
With a warrior, I attack. If I´m strong enough, I win easily. If I´m not, I die. The way you use your talents makes a fight easier or harder, but it will never change a "5 seconds and I´m dead" fight into an "5 seconds and THEY are dead" fight, what is quite possible with a mage.

[XOGHunter246]

critical rogues can solo game easy if build right don't think they suck

[sleepy__head]

To the original poster :



I think there is a major flaw in your logic. You admitted that Mages are OP at Easy and Normal, and claimed that it is tougher in Hard and NM. Well, that is no surprise since the game's difficulty levels are DESIGNED to work that way. I can say the exact same thing with Rogue and Warrior. But in addition to that, as someone who has played every class multiple times by now, Rogues and Warriors sure are a lot HARDER than mages, in any difficulty level.



If you want to prove that Mages aren't OP, you need to show that they aren't better than all the other classes. But instead your assertion was that Mages are harder in higher level difficulty. Thats not particularly enlightening. Plase compare apples to apples. When I took my rogues and warriors through Nightmare they sure were hell lot harder than being a mage. That, in essence, is the living proof that mages are OP.

[XOGHunter246]

ok heres how i see it i enjoy mages and find them fun but it too easy with them. Second comes a rouge i love the stealthy classes i found mine pretty easy towards mid game. haven't tried a warrior dual wielder yet. but i have played all classes and types except for dual wield warrior

[Finger The Cat]

I'm sorry for my opinion but it has to be stated,



When I think of a Mage, then think of a warrior, the mage kills the warrior (I'm not talking from game I'm talking my imagination)



It's funny how the forum believes I'm misspelling mage lol

[Dieover]

well i think any given mage (aoe spec) in your party become an "Ez-mode" , try play one without them and tell me what yall think.

[F-C]

in my opinion the only reason anyone would think mages are overpowered anymore after 1.02 is because they completely fail at making good melee classes and using decent combat tactics.



i know this is the reason because you always see the same people who complain about mages in other threads talking about how you dont need willpower yet complain about never having stamina. then in another thread saying things like pulling is exploiting the ai, or pulling mobs away from traps is exploiting ai and you are supposed to walk over them and take it to the face for it to be fair...



i just get the general impression that people who complain about mages are drooling morons who need massive crowd control to handle any situation because they fail at life.

[SheffSteel]

It's an interesting theory. Currently I'm playing a rogue and a mage, both on Medium/PC. My rogue has done 37% of her party's damage and the mage has done 70% of his. It will be interesting to see how that differs on Hard.



Remember when talking about difficulty to be clear about which platform you're playing on. PC is ~1 level harder than consoles.

[Darpaek]

I remember talk on the old forums that the game was originally designed to be played on the current "Hard" mode. "Normal" mode was the original easy and "Nightmare" was the original hard - in the same way that the BGs and NWN were intended to be played on "Core" but defaulted to an easier difficulty. During QA, their testers whined that the game was too hard and they changed the default to "Normal" and created the "Easy" difficulty.



Looking at the plethora of "OMG This game is TOO hard" threads and their patch history of continually making their game easier lends credence to this theory.



Too bad there isn't LAN play - as much as I loathe lame Arena mods, I think a lame Arena mod would end the "Mages are OP" discussion as scores of AWs lie dead at the feet of cold-resistance dualy rogues. LOL!

[Lord Phoebus]

Darpaek wrote...

Too bad there isn't LAN play - as much as I loathe lame Arena mods, I think a lame Arena mod would end the "Mages are OP" discussion as scores of AWs lie dead at the feet of cold-resistance dualy rogues. LOL!

What about the scores of cold resistance dualy rogues dead at the hands of misdirection hex, death hex, death cloud AWs?

Warriors and Rogues respond to the battlefield, the battlefield responds to mages.  As long as that remains the case Mages are stronger than the other two.

[Timortis]

I soloed Nightmare with a Rogue and a 2H Warrior. I also started a solo game with a Mage, caster, not AW. I got bored and stopped playing at level 12 in the Brecilian Ruins because it felt too easy. Can't bring myself to continue the game.

[Darpaek]

Good luck with that misdirection hex gimping my dualy rogues 150 attack to 100! She'll NEVER hit your 15 Dex AW! LOL



Seriously? Your leet strat would be to drop an AoE DoT on your head and a hex that requires you to actually HIT a rogue. Just because you can PWN dumb AI darkspawn all day long doesn't mean you'd actually beat a real person that can backstab your 220 hitpoint AW with 120+ hits.



Just for giggles, she'd hit you once, ****slap you with DF, and then stealth away to watch your own DoT kill you.



Have you seen the 5 hit rogue Logain death vid? I'd pay good money to see you post a YouTube doing the same thing with your AW.

[Gracchio]

Mages? Isn't the plurar magi?

[Shallina]

if you think the mage is not OP or it is on par with the other class it's beceause you are a very bad gamer.



Rogue and warior are easier toplay than mage beceause they got fewer action and skill. So if you are a really bad gamer you'll find rogue and war easier to play.



But the truth is if you know how to play and if you know how to deal with friendly fire, mage are god while war and rogue are nothing. The games bore me beceause of it. I see no point of having a party, just the mage is enought and is so much more powerfull than the 2 other class that I don't see the point of bringing them for combat.



Even without armor, witht he magical protection the mage is a better tank than a heavy fighter.

[Darpaek]

Gracchio wrote...

Mages? Isn't the plurar magi?

Hrmmmm... netass fake diction for a fake word defining a fake concept.  Go to college and do something useful with that leet brainpower. 

For argument's sake, "magi" is the plural of "magus", whereas "mages" is the plural of "mage."

LOL

[Lycidas]

SheffSteel wrote...

It's an interesting theory. Currently I'm playing a rogue and a mage, both on Medium/PC. My rogue has done 37% of her party's damage and the mage has done 70% of his. It will be interesting to see how that differs on Hard.

You know your numbers do actually say nothing right?
I could make up those nubers the other way around if I wanted.

[Darpaek]

They also reflect your playstyle. Your swordie-type playstyle may be to "wade in with the team," whereas your mage playstyle may be to hit H all the time.



I know mine is. =D

[Lord Phoebus]

Darpaek wrote...

Good luck with that misdirection hex gimping my dualy rogues 150 attack to 100! She'll NEVER hit your 15 Dex AW! LOL

Seriously? Your leet strat would be to drop an AoE DoT on your head and a hex that requires you to actually HIT a rogue. Just because you can PWN dumb AI darkspawn all day long doesn't mean you'd actually beat a real person that can backstab your 220 hitpoint AW with 120+ hits.

Just for giggles, she'd hit you once, ****slap you with DF, and then stealth away to watch your own DoT kill you.

Have you seen the 5 hit rogue Logain death vid? I'd pay good money to see you post a YouTube doing the same thing with your AW.

I think you just proved the point that you don't know how to play a mage or what the spells do.  Misdirection hex turns all your hits into misses unless they're critical hits, in which case they become regular hits.  Death hex+Death Cloud triggers the Entropic Death combo with takes off about 400 hit points instantly.  At level 25 your rogue doesn't have that many hitpoints.  I could think of many other ways of killing your rogue too, that was just the elegant way. Learn rules and then post your hyperbolic crap. 

[MiG-77]

About mage damage potential(juts for theory):



Fireball -> Cone of Cold -> shock -> flame balst = many, many dead enemies very fast.

[Jonfon_ire]

Lord Phoebus wrote...

Darpaek wrote...

Good luck with that misdirection hex gimping my dualy rogues 150 attack to 100! She'll NEVER hit your 15 Dex AW! LOL

Seriously? Your leet strat would be to drop an AoE DoT on your head and a hex that requires you to actually HIT a rogue. Just because you can PWN dumb AI darkspawn all day long doesn't mean you'd actually beat a real person that can backstab your 220 hitpoint AW with 120+ hits.

Just for giggles, she'd hit you once, ****slap you with DF, and then stealth away to watch your own DoT kill you.

Have you seen the 5 hit rogue Logain death vid? I'd pay good money to see you post a YouTube doing the same thing with your AW.

I think you just proved the point that you don't know how to play a mage or what the spells do.  Misdirection hex turns all your hits into misses unless they're critical hits, in which case they become regular hits.  Death hex+Death Cloud triggers the Entropic Death combo with takes off about 400 hit points instantly.  At level 25 your rogue doesn't have that many hitpoints.  I could think of many other ways of killing your rogue too, that was just the elegant way. Learn rules and then post your hyperbolic crap. 

I'd personally see it come down to what equipment the rogue has and how sneaky they are. Some Spell Resistance items & runes could basically render most of what a mage can do useless. Coupled with Stealth a smart Rogue could easily be a handful for a mage. Either way I could see it being a short fight one way or the other. The game isn't really designed for proper class vs class battles, there's too many I Win buttons & combos IMO.

It's all hyperbola anyway on both sides given that it's unlikely to ever happen that we get a PvP style arena ingame.

[Jordi B]

Darpaek wrote...

Good luck with that misdirection hex gimping my dualy rogues 150 attack to 100! She'll NEVER hit your 15 Dex AW! LOL

Seriously? Your leet strat would be to drop an AoE DoT on your head and a hex that requires you to actually HIT a rogue. Just because you can PWN dumb AI darkspawn all day long doesn't mean you'd actually beat a real person that can backstab your 220 hitpoint AW with 120+ hits.

Just for giggles, she'd hit you once, ****slap you with DF, and then stealth away to watch your own DoT kill you.

Have you seen the 5 hit rogue Logain death vid? I'd pay good money to see you post a YouTube doing the same thing with your AW.

The description for Misdirection Hex says nothing about lowering your attack score by 50. It just says it turns regular hits into misses and critical hits into regular hits. I don't know about backstabs. Also, what makes you think an AW only has 15 dex? I think mine has 30 (and also 30 con). I think the defense score (buffed) was 134, so even if your attack is 150, you would miss a third of the time.
I'm not saying you don't stand a chance though. Combat stealth is very powerful (a little too powerful in my opinion) and of course there is always a chance that you resist the worst spells that are cast on you. I would probably still bet on the mage though, because as soon as any stun spell sticks on you, you're screwed.
Anyway, I don't think a one-on-one PvP battle is a good benchmark for a party-based single-player game. Mages are more useful in group-based combat, because they have more ways to increase the damage the rest of the party does. Rogues on the other hand are more useful (than mages and warriors) outside of combat (because they have more skills, can pick locks and detect traps).

[JaegerBane]

sleepy__head wrote...
If you want to prove that Mages aren't OP, you need to show that they aren't better than all the other classes. But instead your assertion was that Mages are harder in higher level difficulty. Thats not particularly enlightening. Plase compare apples to apples. When I took my rogues and warriors through Nightmare they sure were hell lot harder than being a mage. That, in essence, is the living proof that mages are OP.

Actually, it's living proof of bias. It is no good lecturing people on comparing apples to apples and then formulate an argument that compare's the Mage's strong points against the warrior/rogues's weak points. Practice what you preach and do the same.

In essence, Mages have, by their nature, always been the crowd control and artillery of a party. That's their role. There are a lot of people on here who have somehow got it into their heads that all classes are little more than different skins for a player and that they all have to function exactly the same. A Mage, for instance, cannot defuse traps and hences misses out on a crudload of XP and takes a ton of unnecessary damage without a rogue. A Mage, in it's pure form, cannot tank and is a woeful close combatant, as most of his spells will either do as much damage to himself or his friends as it will to the enemy when used up close.

*Obviously* if we compare the performance of a mage against an oncoming group of uglies at range then by definition the character that specialise in ranged AoE attacks is going to be a lot better than a guy with thick armour and a sword. That is a statement of the obvious, it doesn't somehow vindicate all this OP rubbish. Look, I can do this too. If I stick my mage right next to an enemy and compare how long he lasts compared to a warrior then poof, my mage goes down in a quarter of the time. Does this mean that the mage is nerfed? No, it means I'm using my mage wrong and I'm playing to his weakenesses, not his strengths.

Do the same. Play your rogues like rogues. Don't simply go down the logically bankrupt route of deciding you rogue is underpowered because he can't carry out the mage's role as well as a mage.

[Lycidas]

Players thinking they knew how class balance should be handled + Dev's stupid enoung to listen results in games nobody wants to play anymore again and again. It just seems to be the nature of things lol.

[Darpaek]

Lord Phoebus wrote...

I think you just proved the point that you don't know how to play a mage or what the spells do.  Misdirection hex turns all your hits into misses unless they're critical hits, in which case they become regular hits.  Death hex+Death Cloud triggers the Entropic Death combo with takes off about 400 hit points instantly.  At level 25 your rogue doesn't have that many hitpoints.  I could think of many other ways of killing your rogue too, that was just the elegant way. Learn rules and then post your hyperbolic crap. 

Alright genius, let's stop waving our e-peen around with leet make-believe strats for an arena mod that will never exist.  I'm sure a player of your skill has a special save on one of your chars immediately before you walk into the Landsmeet - most people do.

Kill Loghain with 5 hits/spells.  Post your vid on YouTube.  Heck - you can even put it on Easy.  Put up or shut up, bro.