354 réponses à ce sujet

[Fisto The Sexbot]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Is it just me, or did everyone else have a bad feeling about the sarcophagus? Something doesn't seem right to me.

The ship carrying it was attacked but the sarcophagus was still there. So the attackers probably took what's inside to begin with, or something within did the killing, but why would it remain? Unless it wants to be found. Or maybe the attackers from outside wanted it to be found too. Maybe they replaced what's within.

Feels like a trap to me tbh. Strauss says that Lacroiz is too attracted to the sarcophagus. Maybe it's a trap from Max? Or someone else? I don't know, but I have a bad feeling about this. If it is a trap, Max is a bit too obvious though, hmmm

It's no fun if you're (mostly) correct. 

[termokanden]

I too had a bad feeling about the sarcophagus.

Anyway, did anyone else notice that the ship is called Elizabeth Dane, the exact name of the ship from the old horror movie The Fog? I found that pretty funny.

[KnightofPhoenix]

While the stealth in this game is less than stellar, the dominate ability makes it so cool regardless.
Picture this, two armed thugs in one room, positioned in such a way that sneaking up on them is impossible, and any fighting would alert the entire building.

So my vampire comes in, uses brain wipe, makes the 2 guards forget they saw her for a few seconds, use suicide on one of them to force self-choking while quickly going behind the other for a stealth kill. 2 guards killed in 5 seconds, with no sound at all. Perfection.

[Addai]

Suicide is a fun discipline. So sneaky. Blood Theft for Thaumaturgy (Tremere) beats it, though- same principle but you get half your blood tank refilled when the mook croaks. It makes stealth runs through human areas so easy. Plus it's got a cool little sound effect.

[Jozape]

MerinTB wrote...

Such a great game. Like Alpha Protocol, I don't think the combat is nearly as bad as people make it out to be, but I guess I don't play the kind of games where people say the combat is "great" so who am I to judge?

The most recent I can think of with good combat is Avernum. That is very pleasurable. I can sit down and drink a cup of coffee while I'm playing. For AP or VtMB, I HAVE to sit down and drink a cup of coffee before playing. And it's still frantic and frustrating.

Everything is fine and dandy when I'm not actually fighting enemies of course. Being stealthy is mostly fine.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

While the stealth in this game is less than stellar, the dominate ability makes it so cool regardless.
Picture this, two armed thugs in one room, positioned in such a way that sneaking up on them is impossible, and any fighting would alert the entire building.

So my vampire comes in, uses brain wipe, makes the 2 guards forget they saw her for a few seconds, use suicide on one of them to force self-choking while quickly going behind the other for a stealth kill. 2 guards killed in 5 seconds, with no sound at all. Perfection.

That's what I did for a large part of the game, except I would feed instead of making a stealth kill most of the time. Kill them and heal + replenish blood/health for free. Dominate rocks for the lesser enemies(which are everywhere). I was usually low on bullets and cash, so it was a real help in that I could save the bullets for the real threats. 

[Gibb_Shepard]

What a game. Honestly wasn't expecting much, but it's had me hooked for the past few hours. I chose a Toreador with the Gambling Degenerate (I think that's what it's called) subclass. Even though i know guns are not the best in this game, i've chosen to specialize in them.

The quests are extremely interesting. Especially the side-quests. Hopefully the quality of the game is consistent throughout.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...
The quests are extremely interesting. Especially the side-quests. Hopefully the quality of the game is consistent throughout.

It's not sadly.

[Addai]

I thought it was fantastic all the way through. The sewers were nightmarish, but in its own way that was quite a memorable experience.

[KnightofPhoenix]

So I finished the game.
All in all, it was good!

The endgame is clearly rushed though, but at least it was possible to do it via stealth and reduce combat to a minimum. In my ending, siding with Max Strauss, the climax was kind of...absent. Like I didn't really feel anything. I read the other endings and now it makes more sense (while Max is smart for not opening it, well it kind of makes  for a boring ending), but even then it feels like the story is incomplete. You know who, who is behind all this, is not fully explored. There are questions left unanswered, like who was the man Strauss referred to as "my lord"?

My major grip with this game is twofold:
A- everyone is impotent and incompetent, forcing me to do all the work while they sit around and do nothing. Am I supposed to take it seriously that the plaguebearers and the HQ of the freakin Sabbat is right accross from the Tremere Chantry and Venture tower and they still didn't find out? I am literally doing everything and was dissapointed that at the end, I couldn't gather allies and ask them to help, with the exception of the Chinese girl. The characters and factions are cool, but I have to suspend my disbelief too much in order to take them seriously.

B- Despite the fact that I am doing everything, my PC was essentially a lapdog throughout the game (she can even joke about it, which while funny, actually pissed me off). All of the above was to give me the illusion of importance, which is very typical of Bioware games as well. Now it's good that my PC can have skills other tham direct combat, but ultimately, she rarely displayed initiative, pro-activity, independence and intelligence. It was just running from one quest giver to the other.  I don't mind playing pawns (I loved Raziel from Legacy of Kain), but as long as there is story significance and depth behind it, which is my main problem with silent PCs. They no longer work for me as well as before, as whatever I imagine, I still have to play a brick.

Also, there are very few choices and even less consequences. The game plays out the exact same way regardless of clan or allegiance except at the very end and even then the differences are minor. I guess it's cool to experience the different dialogue options depending on clan, but ultimately the story is the same and I am not sure I have the patience or desire to replay it again, at least not after a very extended break.

Overall imo, the gameplay was fun but not without problems, the story was good but nothing great, the characters were cool but nothing that memorable, the politics are good but nothing special (problems in execution mostly, not the ideas). The atmosphere and music are excellent though, the game has a personality of its own. 
So all in all, I found it to be a good game, but nothing great or special.

EDIT: and I might be the minority here, but I would have preferred if the game had a set protagonist, even if it meant a set clan. Silent blank PCs no longer satisfy me as well as voiced set PCs. 

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 02 septembre 2012 - 08:55 .

[termokanden]

It's not that they can't handle themselves, but why would they when they have a new vampire to push around. You are indeed their lapdog, and that's why you get sent to handle all their problems. Granted, some of it is clearly just to give you some quests to do.

The part I find the least believable is how that same brand new vampire can go beat up old and powerful vampires. In a straight up fight, you really should just lose.

As for the silent protagonist, it doesn't bother me. I would even go as far as to say that given the choice, I would keep it as is.. I value customizability over making the game slightly more cinematic. It just makes the game much more replayable for me, and I like being able to pick the character that is least likely to annoy me (some set protagonists are annoying to me). In any case, it would certainly be a shame to have a set clan. One of the strengths of the game is how much of a difference there is between the clans. Well, clans Malkavian and Nosferatu are the most unique dialogue-wise.

Modifié par termokanden, 02 septembre 2012 - 09:07 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

termokanden wrote...

It's not that they can't handle themselves, but why would they when they have a new vampire to push around. You are indeed their lapdog, and that's why you get sent to handle all their problems. Granted, some of it is clearly just to give you some quests to do.

When the masquerade is in danger from their great enemies, the Sabbat, who are just accross from the Camarilla HQ and they didn't even know aobut it, then this is simply pushing it. They are incompetent.

I take no pleasure playing a lapdog to passive factions who aren't doing anything.


EDIT: as for the clans, according to what I read, the story is the exact same regardless of what clan you pick. What changes is the manner in which you say things.
I guess nosferatu would have to use seqers more frequently, but the story is the same either way.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 02 septembre 2012 - 09:09 .

[Addai]

If there were no more silent protagonists, I probably wouldn't play video games. Those are the only games that are really memorable to me, because I'm so much more actively engaged.

As for being a lapdog, it was again part of the reason why the anarchs seemed the best choice. They are, after all, lone wolves and have to be strong individuals. And the ending was so much more satisfying than the others. You still feel used, but feeling like I was Smiling Jack's protege was still damn cool.

Modifié par Addai67, 02 septembre 2012 - 09:18 .

[termokanden]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

When the masquerade is in danger from their great enemies, the Sabbat, who are just accross from the Camarilla HQ and they didn't even know aobut it, then this is simply pushing it. They are incompetent.

Yes. To some extent it makes sense that you are just an errand boy for your elders, but when it comes to conflicts between factions, it does seem a bit incompetent to just trust the new guy to handle everything.

EDIT: as for the clans, according to what I read, the story is the exact same regardless of what clan you pick. What changes is the manner in which you say things.
I guess nosferatu would have to use seqers more frequently, but the story is the same either way.

The story is exactly the same, except that you can get different havens depending on your clan. What makes it worthwhile in my eyes is the fact that NPC reactions are so different. Malkavians have their own dialogue. Every line (well, 99% of them) has been translated to "Malkavian", and you get some pretty amusing reactions. Sometimes as a Malkavian, you will also hear a voice whispering to you. Now that's flavor.

Nosferatu are different because of NPC reactions and because you sometimes have to be very careful revealing yourself to humans. There's one place where you literally scare someone to death (nearly fell off my chair laughing).

I recommend to anyone who thought Bloodlines was great to try Malkavian and Nosferatu, in that order.

By the way, the whole thing about using the sewers is a myth that people who didn't actually play Nosferatu very much like to spread. In reality you can run around on the street without a problem as long as you don't get close to anyone. A bit silly perhaps, but it would also be annoying to actually have to use the sewers a lot.

Modifié par termokanden, 02 septembre 2012 - 09:28 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...
As for being a lapdog, it was again part of the reason why the anarchs seemed the best choice. They are, after all, lone wolves and have to be strong individuals. And the ending was so much more satisfying than the others. You still feel used, but feeling like I was Smiling Jack's protege was still damn cool.

Watching all the endings, I feel being the lone wolf and giving nines the finger to be the ending I'd find the closest to being satisfying.

But even if I side with the anarchs or just help them, I still have to act like their lapdog because like everyone else, they are incompetent idiots who are not doing anything.

It's not my thing, stuff like that pisses me off unless there is story significance and a character arc behind it, like Raziel who was like a stick being thrown around in 3 games. And he's one of my favorite protagonists ever. 

EDIT: also being the people who are manipulating Raziel are actually doing something. Here, everyone's doing almost nothing.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 02 septembre 2012 - 09:30 .

[termokanden]

The Anarchs, like everyone else, are just using you. Giving them the finger felt the best ending to me
as well.

[KnightofPhoenix]

On a more positive note, I feel I need to reiterate that the ambience was very good. And this is my favorite soundtrack by far. It's rare to have games with personality and this game has plenty.

Now I understand that the development for this game was mired in problem and even stopped before it was completed. It shows, the game at the beginning was more solid I felt. It's a damn shame, there was a lot of potential.

Still despite my annoyances with it, it was still good and the story was good (just my ending doesn't really show it). Better than most of the crap we have these days.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 02 septembre 2012 - 09:39 .

[Addai]

termokanden wrote...

The Anarchs, like everyone else, are just using you. Giving them the finger felt the best ending to me
as well.

Other than when Damsel asks you to look into the outbreaks, I don't see that.  Nines saved your life twice, and he got a hit put out on him because of you (the one time I felt forced in a bad way).  He also has the best excuse for not helping you in the end, being ripped up.

I also don't see them as incompetent- they don't have the Camarilla support that you do, so you can get to places they can't.

Smiling Jack is the one who manipulates you, but I forgive him because he's just too awesome.  :innocent:

So my ending is help the anarchs and join them.  I hope she could maintain good ties to the more moderate Camarilla elements like Strauss and some of the saner Nosferatu guys.  (oh- and the anarchs have the best music, that's my favorite track)

Modifié par Addai67, 03 septembre 2012 - 04:57 .

[TobiTobsen]

I thought it was a nice detail (despite the fact that you're doing everything) that LaCroix is actually using "Dominate" on you if you tell him to do the **** himself and probably even if you don't. Makes it a bit more believable why your're doing the whole stuff instead of just walking away.

Modifié par TobiTobsen, 03 septembre 2012 - 05:07 .

[Addai]

But don't you tell him at the end that he can't Dominate you? How would it stop working if it had been working up to that point? It's true that you didn't have nearly enough lines to insult LaCroix.

[SOLID_EVEREST]

Addai67 wrote...

But don't you tell him at the end that he can't Dominate you? How would it stop working if it had been working up to that point? It's true that you didn't have nearly enough lines to insult LaCroix.

I read on some forums that even elder vampires have to get a gigantic roll to make someone do something against their very nature. I guess all the hard work you had to do to get that key made the roll for LaCroix's dominate too high. I mean doing all those errands were something totally different than giving him a key that may just destroy your character.

Other forums have said that LaCroix is lying about his generation. I mean Nines, Gary Golden, and Isaac don't seem like they are even all that old yet they run their own sects. It is kind of believeable that a young vampire coaxed some elder into becoming a head of the Camarilla.

Others have said that the main character's sire was very powerful which was why LaCroix wanted you both dead. The character could've also have grown extremely powerful after all the time spent. I mean you get several wierd artifacts that artificially increase your powers.

[SOLID_EVEREST]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
As for being a lapdog, it was again part of the reason why the anarchs seemed the best choice. They are, after all, lone wolves and have to be strong individuals. And the ending was so much more satisfying than the others. You still feel used, but feeling like I was Smiling Jack's protege was still damn cool.

Watching all the endings, I feel being the lone wolf and giving nines the finger to be the ending I'd find the closest to being satisfying.

But even if I side with the anarchs or just help them, I still have to act like their lapdog because like everyone else, they are incompetent idiots who are not doing anything.

It's not my thing, stuff like that pisses me off unless there is story significance and a character arc behind it, like Raziel who was like a stick being thrown around in 3 games. And he's one of my favorite protagonists ever. 

EDIT: also being the people who are manipulating Raziel are actually doing something. Here, everyone's doing almost nothing.

They are primogen and don't raise a finger. I mean Jack tells you that every vampire in L.A. will use you to no end even if they only have a couple of years more in rank. Anarchs don't actively care about concealing the masquerade, that is a Camarilla thing.

I don't know, but if you like the game, Knight, you should read more on the WoD wiki. I read a lot of it and it is interesting. WoD talks about Anna Comnenus being a vampire, and the battle between the Romans and Carthage was one of the Ventrue (Romans) vs. the Brujah (Carthaginians). It is cool how they mix history with vampirisim, and I definitely like how Dracula is a Tzimice, like Andre, or however you spell that.

[TobiTobsen]

Addai67 wrote...

But don't you tell him at the end that he can't Dominate you? How would it stop working if it had been working up to that point? It's true that you didn't have nearly enough lines to insult LaCroix.

The same reason you can slaughter older vampires that should have, according to the lore of VTMB, no problems butchering you: because you are the player.
How cool is it to tell the Camarilla Elder of the whole town to stfu and do his own ****?

Modifié par TobiTobsen, 03 septembre 2012 - 04:33 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

@ Solid
I did read a bit about the lore and it's definitely intriguing. The game could have used a few codices, but it did set the vibe of the setting pretty well I thought. I still find the whole Camarilla / Anarch divide pretty intriguing and watching a few Anarchs scenes, I appreciate Nines more (killing a werewolf with his bare hands??!), he was kind of absent in my playthrough.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 03 septembre 2012 - 04:45 .

[termokanden]

Addai67 wrote...

termokanden wrote...

The Anarchs, like everyone else, are just using you. Giving them the finger felt the best ending to me
as well.

Other than when Damsel asks you to look into the outbreaks, I don't see that.  Nines saved your life twice, and he got a hit put out on him because of you (the one time I felt forced in a bad way).  He also has the best excuse for not helping you in the end, being ripped up.

I also don't see them as incompetent- they don't have the Camarilla support that you do, so you can get to places they can't.

Smiling Jack is the one who manipulates you, but I forgive him because he's just too awesome.  :innocent:

I don't know. Maybe, just maybe the other anarchs didn't know about it. But Jack does represent the Anarchs and despite their BS about not having a leader, he clearly is someone the others look up to.

As for Jack himself, of course you can't stay mad at him. He's adorable! He should have just asked me though and I would have gladly helped him get rid of the prince.

By the way, I agree with you about the anarchs having the best music. But really the soundtrack is just awesome in general.

Modifié par termokanden, 03 septembre 2012 - 07:40 .

[HoonDing]

Once I realized Jack is Bender, I found it very hard to take the game seriously anymore.