24 réponses à ce sujet

[Graedus]

Is the spell banishment bugged?

I have tested them in the Vordan's Hero Creator Module against outsiders and elementals and in MotB, seems that banishment(lvl 7) has always lower DC than dismissal(lvl 5) and sometimes the enemies don't even try the will save

Has anyone tried those spells I didn't find any topic about them or could it be a problem with my game only?

[I_Raps]

It's not your game only. There's something bizarre about them. For one thing, Banishment is limited in how many hit dice it will affect. That's why "sometimes the enemies don't even try the will save." Dismissal is easily more powerful. There probably should be more limitations on what Dismissal should affect (only creatures actually summoned by a spell, not placed by the module) but there aren't in practice.

As for what's going on with the saving throws, I have an idea. I just ran Sand into a suite full of outsiders, threw a Banishment and then a Dismissal. The saving throw for all the mephits was 23 for the Banishment; the erinyes and succubus didn't need to save since Sand popped enough mephits. The Dismissal then got rid of everyone that was left - but the saving throw DCs were all different (succubus 25, erinyes 23, mephit 28, succubus 25). It seems to depend on the target's level/hit dice as well as the caster's.

Modifié par I_Raps, 22 juillet 2012 - 03:47 .

[I_Raps]

I_Raps wrote...

... saving throw DCs were all different (succubus 25, erinyes 23, mephit 28, succubus 25). It seems to depend on the target's level/hit dice as well as the caster's.

Looking at the Dismissal script ... I'm right.

  nHitDice = GetHitDice ( oTarget );
  nAdjustedSpellDC = nBaseSpellDC - nHitDice;

[I_Raps]

Whether it SHOULD be like this is a different matter altogether.

[GFallen01]

I_Raps wrote...

Whether it SHOULD be like this is a different matter altogether.

Nope. From the SRD:

www.systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/dnd35/soveliorsage/spellsDtoE.html#dismissal

Dismissal

Abjuration
Level: Clr 4, Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One extraplanar creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes

This spell forces an extraplanar creature back to its proper plane if it fails a special Will save (DC = spell’s save DC – creature’s HD + your caster level). If the spell is successful, the creature is instantly whisked away, but there is a 20% chance of actually sending the subject to a plane other than its own.

www.systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/dnd35/soveliorsage/spellsAtoB.html#banishment

Banishment

Abjuration
Level: Clr 6, Sor/Wiz 7
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Targets: One or more extraplanar creatures, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

A banishment spell is a more powerful version of the dismissal spell. It enables you to force extraplanar creatures out of your home plane. As many as 2 Hit Dice of creatures per caster level can be banished.

You can improve the spell’s chance of success by presenting at least one object or substance that the target hates, fears, or otherwise opposes. For each such object or substance, you gain a +1 bonus on your caster level check to overcome the target’s spell resistance (if any), the saving throw DC increases by 2.

Certain rare items might work twice as well as a normal item for the purpose of the bonuses (each providing a +2 bonus on the caster level check against spell resistance and increasing the save DC by 4).

Arcane Focus: Any item that is distasteful to the subject (optional, see above).

Modifié par GFallen01, 22 juillet 2012 - 09:23 .

[kevL]

thanks Guys,

I conformed my versions to those, and gave Banishment a +3DC


figure that caster can flash his/her robes open .. that's sort of a Focus

[I_Raps]

While you're at it, you should make Banishment work on Elementals, too.

[kevL]

yeh, here's the list so far

if (oTarget == GetAssociate(ASSOCIATE_TYPE_SUMMONED, oMaster)
|| oTarget == GetAssociate(ASSOCIATE_TYPE_FAMILIAR, oMaster)
|| oTarget == GetAssociate(ASSOCIATE_TYPE_ANIMALCOMPANION, oMaster)
|| iRacialType == RACIAL_TYPE_OUTSIDER
|| iRacialType == RACIAL_TYPE_ELEMENTAL
|| iRacialSubType == RACIAL_SUBTYPE_GITHYANKI
|| iRacialSubType == RACIAL_SUBTYPE_GITHZERAI)

- i basically started with re-coding Dismissal for one target, then copied that into Banishment and adapted it for multiple targets ( TotalHD = CL * 2 ). Took the ground targetType out of Spells.2da, for Dismissal, and rewrote both entries in Dialog.Tlk ... tedious,

[I_Raps]

Do you retrieve racial_subtypes with the GetRacialType function?  There's no GetRacialSubtype.

[edit]  Nevermind.  GetSubRace.

I see a lot more Grobnar than Sand in this scripting language.

Modifié par I_Raps, 26 juillet 2012 - 09:22 .

[kevL]

lol, i should look into opening a Paste.bin account ...


ps. Yes generally expect to find > 0 things wrong in every stock script.

Modifié par kevL, 26 juillet 2012 - 09:24 .

[I_Raps]

I think once, long ago in a previous game, the developers discussed Dismissal and said that expanding it to affect more than one target was deliberate. The computer games were not intended to be identical to the P&P game.

Plus - if you are making your changes to a server/PW, beware the frenzy of the anti-nerfbatters.

Last week I considered just using the Dice Pool from Banishment for Dismissal, but decided just to upgrade Banishment instead for now. I did not give a constant DC bonus but nBrainsBon - (the higher of WIS Bonus or INT Bonus)/2. I also added it to the Banishment Dice Pool. My latest character (Favored Soul) just reached a level to decide on whether to take Banishment, so tonight I will see how the change fares under fire.

[painofdungeoneternal]

this is my dismissal, might be helpful, even though a lot is involved at making it work with other systems i am using.

http://pastebin.myrror.net/3210

CSLGetIsDismissable

[kevL]

just tried Pastebin :

http://pastebin.myrror.net/3211 <- Dismissal
http://pastebin.myrror.net/3212 <- Banishment




- the game I play is one big nerf, and it's mine muahahahaha jk

[ edit ] links changed.

Modifié par kevL, 26 juillet 2012 - 10:25 .

[kamal_]

kevL wrote...

just tried Pastebin :

http://pastebin.ca/2175037 <- Dismissal
http://pastebin.ca/2175040 <- Banishment


( no account, expires in 1 month )


- the game I play is one big nerf, and it's mine muahahahaha jk

nwscript specific pastebin, much better, automatic color coding of things for readability etc.
http://pastebin.myrror.net/

[kevL]

painofdungeoneternal wrote...

CSLGetIsDismissable

nAssType



...

[kevL]

great Kam, Tks.

(done)

Modifié par kevL, 26 juillet 2012 - 10:26 .

[I_Raps]

I_Raps wrote...

 My latest character (Favored Soul) just reached a level to decide on whether to take Banishment, so tonight I will see how the change fares under fire.

So I'm in a barrow and run in to some Barrow Guardians.  I drop a Dismissal on the first batch and they pop.  I then try Banishment on the next group and nothing happens.

I load up the toolset and have a look at Barrow Guardians.  I note that there is a RACIAL_SUBTYPE_ELEMENTAL as well.  I'm not sure who or what else that would include, but you may want to include it in your spell targets.

(I don't know whether that had any impact on the Barrow Guardians;  I immediately checked my Banishment script and saw that I had deleted the Elemental line when I put in the lines for Giths).

Modifié par I_Raps, 28 juillet 2012 - 01:14 .

[kevL]

If you hunt through .2da's notice there's RacialTypes.2da & RacialSubTypes.2da

subTypes are purely subfunctions, as it were, of Types: you can't directly change the Type in the toolset, the subType has to be changed and that will set the *necessary* Type.


in the script, we should be able to hit either the Type or subType with the right function call and ~poof~

in other words, the Githyanki & Githzerai checks are redundant ... i wrote that clause a long time ago, and they should be getting automatically subsumed by type,Outsider ... i haven't tested that but would put 50-bucks on it

[kevL]

the craziness could come in, if there's an NPC like Zeeaire or Zhjaeve, or some critters that merely have their Appearance set to, say, githyanki but their underlying Racial or subType is actually, say, human .....

( which wouldna surprise me ) From the wiki:

Some of the outsiders in the original campaign have their racial type set to a wrong number, so this spell simply ignores them. The proper way to fix this would be to fix their templates, but an easier way is to include creatures based on appearance. nw_s0_dismissal.nss:
GetAppearanceType(oTarget)==483 //Githyanki

I think i'll put back in Destroy after a short delay ( giving time for an onDeath script to start ), so they disappear. Maybe a nifty vFx too if i can find one

[I_Raps]

Are you sure you want Zhjaeve popping back to the Astral Plane? 

It would be a fun thing to test, though, to see if it just killed her, sent her away to return when the dead companions stand up, or completely bombed the campaign.

[kevL]

yah well uhhhh,

ideally (in my view) she'd pop back to her hangout spot

but uhmm...

[kevL]

so .. down in the CanCreatureBeDestroyed( ) scope, I'm gonna try out:

if (!GetIsRosterMember(oTarget)
&& !GetIsOwnedByPlayer(oTarget))
{
AssignCommand(oTarget, SetIsDestroyable(TRUE, FALSE, FALSE));
DelayCommand(0.3f, DestroyObject(oTarget));
}

( now i see the wisdom Obsidian had by making the companions RosterMembers as soon as they enter the game world, even though they don't show up on the Roster until their "campaignNPC" switch is turned off )


but anyway, i just want baddies to go ~poof~ and haven't even checked this for IG Vis ...

Modifié par kevL, 28 juillet 2012 - 12:56 .

[kamal_]

kevL wrote...

the craziness could come in, if there's an NPC like Zeeaire or Zhjaeve, or some critters that merely have their Appearance set to, say, githyanki but their underlying Racial or subType is actually, say, human .....

( which wouldna surprise me ) From the wiki:

Some of the outsiders in the original campaign have their racial type set to a wrong number, so this spell simply ignores them. The proper way to fix this would be to fix their templates, but an easier way is to include creatures based on appearance. nw_s0_dismissal.nss:
GetAppearanceType(oTarget)==483 //Githyanki

I think i'll put back in Destroy after a short delay ( giving time for an onDeath script to start ), so they disappear. Maybe a nifty vFx too if i can find one

This wiki edit was made by the person who produced the "plot fixes" pack that was mostly their own preferences.

In the OC the githyanki are set to a wide variety of racial types. Since they're not set to gith, and not set to any one specific type, it's apparently intentional on Obsidian's part. The most likely reason is that the spells are broken such that it makes their use an insta-win tactic for a large chunk of the game, including against all the gith bosses. In addition, the gith in the OC are not summoned, which means they should not be affected by Dismissal based on the spell description. They should not be Banishment-able either, since that's also for summons per the description.

So essentially no, don't target gith appearance, you'll break the OC and any work that uses the gith appearance for a non planar creature (using it for diseased people like lepers for instance).

Modifié par kamal_, 28 juillet 2012 - 01:39 .

[kevL]

no right, i wouldn't target an appearanceType, not because it would 'break the OC' ( haha ) but because, as noted, that's not the proper way to fix it. Personally i'd like to hunt down those blueprints ......

if my PC can blast 5 gith to the Astral Plane at a go, so it is; special characters like Zeeaire ought have their Plot flag set ...

despite WRFan's personal preferences, he did a lot of poking around & identified many, many issues

[kevL]

Dismissal has been working great vs. elementals - i Like the single target, and a 300ms delay for destroy shows an earth elemental fall to its knees as it fades, then it's gone before it hits the floor

newer scripts:
Dismissal - http://pastebin.myrror.net/3217
Banishment - http://pastebin.myrror.net/3218