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Comparison of Mac Walters & Drew Karpyshyn (And the ME3 Ending)


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#26
Michelle Howe

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crimzontearz wrote...

Referring to Mac. You may believe the rumor is not founded but everyone saw the postage of the lead writer position up before it was swiftly removed. He is on his way out and good freaking riddance


I'm very confused right now. xD I have no idea what rumor you're talking about. Drew and Mac co-wrote ME2. ME3's lead writer was Mac. Neil was the senior writer. These are facts. >_>

EDIT: Or do you mean that the lead writing job posting means that Mac is on his way out? Not really. It just means that Bioware is handing the reins of Mass Effect over to someone else. Mac will probally stay at Bioware. At least for a bit.

Modifié par Michelle Howe, 22 juillet 2012 - 01:40 .


#27
crimzontearz

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Michelle Howe wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...Referring to Mac. You may believe the rumor is not founded but everyone saw the postage of the lead writer position up before it was swiftly removed. He is on his way out and good freaking riddance

I'm very confused right now. xD I have no idea what rumor you're talking about. Drew and Mac co-wrote ME2. ME3's lead writer was Mac. Neil was the senior writer. These are facts. >_>

a job listing for lead writer was posted by bioware ( in other words they are looking for a new lead writer) then when people noticed it was removed from the job listing page. Mark my words, Mac is on his way out....hopefully Casey is too

#28
crimzontearz

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as long as he does not have his pretentious pseudo artist paws on Mass Effect anymore I am peachy

#29
ld1449

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crimzontearz wrote...

Michelle Howe wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...Referring to Mac. You may believe the rumor is not founded but everyone saw the postage of the lead writer position up before it was swiftly removed. He is on his way out and good freaking riddance

I'm very confused right now. xD I have no idea what rumor you're talking about. Drew and Mac co-wrote ME2. ME3's lead writer was Mac. Neil was the senior writer. These are facts. >_>

a job listing for lead writer was posted by bioware ( in other words they are looking for a new lead writer) then when people noticed it was removed from the job listing page. Mark my words, Mac is on his way out....hopefully Casey is too


Casey has already been demoted from director to exec producer. I think for now, Gamble is unnoficially running the show

#30
crimzontearz

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ld1449 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...Michelle Howe wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...Referring to Mac. You may believe the rumor is not founded but everyone saw the postage of the lead writer position up before it was swiftly removed. He is on his way out and good freaking riddanceI'm very confused right now. xD I have no idea what rumor you're talking about. Drew and Mac co-wrote ME2. ME3's lead writer was Mac. Neil was the senior writer. These are facts. >_>

a job listing for lead writer was posted by bioware ( in other words they are looking for a new lead writer) then when people noticed it was removed from the job listing page. Mark my words, Mac is on his way out....hopefully Casey is too

Casey has already been demoted from director to exec producer. I think for now, Gamble is unnoficially running the show

deo gratias

#31
Michelle Howe

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ld1449 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Michelle Howe wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...Referring to Mac. You may believe the rumor is not founded but everyone saw the postage of the lead writer position up before it was swiftly removed. He is on his way out and good freaking riddance

I'm very confused right now. xD I have no idea what rumor you're talking about. Drew and Mac co-wrote ME2. ME3's lead writer was Mac. Neil was the senior writer. These are facts. >_>

a job listing for lead writer was posted by bioware ( in other words they are looking for a new lead writer) then when people noticed it was removed from the job listing page. Mark my words, Mac is on his way out....hopefully Casey is too


Casey has already been demoted from director to exec producer. I think for now, Gamble is unnoficially running the show 

 Just read that Casey disallowed the other writers any input in the ending. So that was all his doing? Now I'm not sure if I should blame Mac entirely. xD;

But Casey was the director throughout the entire series. ME1 & 2 didn't have these problems. :\\ In the major players, I only see Drew leaving between 2 & 3. Still, if Casey went on a power trip....

Modifié par Michelle Howe, 22 juillet 2012 - 02:04 .


#32
AresKeith

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and thats why most of us are still pissed off, because they won't admit they messed up and allow proper ending

#33
SpamBot2000

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I wouldn't want to get too far into speculating who wrote which bits. I think the normal writing process would involve all the writers making suggestions for each other any way. But it does seem that the parts I found absolutely the worst in the series are usually attributed to Mr. Walters. Mass Effect 2 is something of a mishmash, true, and somewhat detached from the events of ME1. But it could be argued that a trilogy would still work, assuming the final part would somehow manage to combine these seemingly separate pillars. And that just went completely out of the window with ME3. Furthermore the Arrival DLC is not just plain bad in itself (the railroading and autodialogue really started there, as well as the undermining of the story of ME1), but it also establishes a completely separate storyline apart from anything that took place within ME2 proper, which at least wrapped up the story of the Collectors. It looks a lot like a latecomer in charge forcefully stamping his mark on the whole, ruining what critics used to call "the organic unity" of the work.

Then we have ME3, for which Walters came up with the idea of the Action mode. To me at least, this speaks directly to his priorities in regards to storytelling. There is one planned path through the game, with all the choice that has been the hallmark of BioWare games since the original Baldur's Gate reduced to grudgingly allowing an inconsequential alternate dialogue line here and there. If this is not a radical design departure from the BW tradition, I don't know what is. AND there's the ending he apparently kept from the commentary of the rest of the writing team, likely because their probable concern for the narrative continuity of the trilogy would have complicated ramming it down the throat of this once truly great series to make a crude full stop.

So what we have here is no longer the BioWare I was a fan of. I see no reason to continue funding the imposture.

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 22 juillet 2012 - 02:14 .


#34
Baa Baa

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BatmanPWNS wrote...

Patrick Weeke wrote Tali and so his no.1 in my book.



#35
crimzontearz

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Michelle Howe wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...Michelle Howe wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...Referring to Mac. You may believe the rumor is not founded but everyone saw the postage of the lead writer position up before it was swiftly removed. He is on his way out and good freaking riddanceI'm very confused right now. xD I have no idea what rumor you're talking about. Drew and Mac co-wrote ME2. ME3's lead writer was Mac. Neil was the senior writer. These are facts. >_>

a job listing for lead writer was posted by bioware ( in other words they are looking for a new lead writer) then when people noticed it was removed from the job listing page. Mark my words, Mac is on his way out....hopefully Casey is too

Casey has already been demoted from director to exec producer. I think for now, Gamble is unnoficially running the show 

 Just read that Casey disallowed the other writers any input in the ending. So that was all his doing? Now I'm not sure if I should blame Mac entirely. xD;But Casey was the director throughout the entire series. ME1 & 2 didn't have these problems. : In the major players, I only see Drew leaving between 2 & 3. Still, if Casey went on a power trip....

now do you understand my stance?

#36
essarr71

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How are the Collectors being Reaperized Protheans a Dues Ex?

#37
SpamBot2000

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essarr71 wrote...

How are the Collectors being Reaperized Protheans a Dues Ex?


Huh? Did someone say that? 

#38
-Skorpious-

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ld1449 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Michelle Howe wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...Referring to Mac. You may believe the rumor is not founded but everyone saw the postage of the lead writer position up before it was swiftly removed. He is on his way out and good freaking riddance

I'm very confused right now. xD I have no idea what rumor you're talking about. Drew and Mac co-wrote ME2. ME3's lead writer was Mac. Neil was the senior writer. These are facts. >_>

a job listing for lead writer was posted by bioware ( in other words they are looking for a new lead writer) then when people noticed it was removed from the job listing page. Mark my words, Mac is on his way out....hopefully Casey is too


Casey has already been demoted from director to exec producer. I think for now, Gamble is unnoficially running the show


I have heard this before, but I have yet to see the statement backed up with evidence. I'm not doubting anybody, but I would appreciate some solid proof before I take the claim seriously. 

#39
The Spamming Troll

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i get the feeling id rather play a game made by drew karpyschun rather then all of bioware put together.

they shoulda tried paying him more.

it certainly looks like it would have been worth it.

#40
Pitznik

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ld1449 wrote...
Drew may have had an ending on a similar framework as Mac, but that's where the similarities end. His Dark Energy ending fit with the lore in game, tied all the games together, had alot more foreshadowing, alot more plot and logic behind it than just space magic. The only real stretch of the imagination was humans having THAT much genetic diversity but that small bit needing suspension of disbelief is a hell of a lot better than nearly 60% of the EXTENDED endings requiring it.

... lol.

#41
Guest_Cthulhu42_*

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Baa Baa wrote...

BatmanPWNS wrote...

Patrick Weeke wrote Tali and so his no.1 in my book.



#42
AresKeith

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Cthulhu42 wrote...

Baa Baa wrote...

BatmanPWNS wrote...

Patrick Weeke wrote Tali and so his no.1 in my book.



#43
essarr71

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SpamBot2000 wrote...

essarr71 wrote...

How are the Collectors being Reaperized Protheans a Dues Ex?


Huh? Did someone say that? 


OP.

Michelle Howe wrote...

As
far as the Collectors being Protheans in ME2, I have a feeling this was
a call by Mac Walters, not Drew. Drew strikes me as a conserative (but
excellent) writer. I'm not TOO fimilar with a lot of his work out side
of Mass Effect, though. Knights of the Old Republic, sure! Neverwinter,
not so much. I vaguely recall Baldur's Gate II. But that Collector
business always struck me as a little "put on". It's a fine twist, but
it felt like a dues ex machina.



#44
The Angry One

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Michelle Howe wrote...

EDIT: Or do you mean that the lead writing job posting means that Mac is on his way out? Not really. It just means that Bioware is handing the reins of Mass Effect over to someone else. Mac will probally stay at Bioware. At least for a bit.


I have a feeling Mac really wants to write for the next Deus Ex game or something, given how he.... emulated them so thoroughly in ME3.

#45
SpamBot2000

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essarr71 wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...

essarr71 wrote...

How are the Collectors being Reaperized Protheans a Dues Ex?


Huh? Did someone say that? 


OP.


 
Oh, so I see. Well, that is pretty much an inaccurate assessment. The collectors are not a solution to any problem appearing as if out of nowhere at the end of anything really.

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 22 juillet 2012 - 02:41 .


#46
SpamBot2000

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The Angry One wrote...

Michelle Howe wrote...

EDIT: Or do you mean that the lead writing job posting means that Mac is on his way out? Not really. It just means that Bioware is handing the reins of Mass Effect over to someone else. Mac will probally stay at Bioware. At least for a bit.


I have a feeling Mac really wants to write for the next Deus Ex game or something, given how he.... emulated them so thoroughly in ME3.


Just... no.

#47
TMA LIVE

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Well, from an outsider perspective, and as a guy who has read Drew's books and Mac's comics, I'd say Drew is more focused on trying to tell a plot of events. And he sometimes does a good job (Revelation and Ascension). And sometimes he doesn't (Retribution). Which is why ME1 felt like it had a more focused story. But is main weakness is characters. He doesn't know how to write cool characters, or barely pulls off good to average characters. And when he is doing a good job, he dumps them or screws them up later. Example, he wrote Liara in ME1, and honestly, despite being a Liara fan, I never was happy with ME1 Liara. From the moment you pick her up, majority of her character development is her trying to romance you. She could've helped kill her mother, but instead she's more focused on describing Asari sex. His bad guys are typically evil, and his good guys are typically good. And a lot of ME1's choices were very "This is the good guy choice" and "This is the bad guy choice".

While Mac on the other hand is more focused on characters then plot. Out of all the comics he's written himself, the plots a very basic. They're nothing special, and more of just devices to setup events. And if you look at ME3, majority of that story is following ME1 plot points. You go from picking up a Prothean something being stolen from a rogue group, to going to the Citadel to talk to the Council, then going all over the Galaxy to find a missing Prothean piece. Then discover another beacon, which holds the final piece. But then bad guy shows up, and gets away with it. Said bad guy is also studying indoctrination. A prothean VI tells you the Citadel is important. You get to it by running to a Conduit. Then meet bad guy inside, and convince him to blow his brains out.

But what Mac does excel at is focusing on the characters then the story and developing them. ME3 had Shepard do the most emoting, and going through the most personal stuff. It's the one with the most emotional scenes. It's the one where the characters are put in the most harms way, and you care more about them. Or feel a lost from their sacrifice. He also created and develop the more popular characters, like Garrus, Wrex, Liara, Hackett, Aria, TIM, and Anderson. And ME the series had more focus on grey choices instead of simply good or bad choices. Where any choice could backfire. And a lot more darker things happened. Like Shepard sacrificing an entire system in Arrival.

So you can make an argument that Mass Effect would've been better if they both were Lead Writers instead of separate writers. Because it seems they complete each other, and fill in their weaknesses.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 22 juillet 2012 - 02:54 .


#48
TMA LIVE

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The Angry One wrote...

Michelle Howe wrote...

EDIT: Or do you mean that the lead writing job posting means that Mac is on his way out? Not really. It just means that Bioware is handing the reins of Mass Effect over to someone else. Mac will probally stay at Bioware. At least for a bit.


I have a feeling Mac really wants to write for the next Deus Ex game or something, given how he.... emulated them so thoroughly in ME3.


Considering Casey is a fan of Deus Ex, and was even playing the new one during ME3's development, I think the reference more of came from him.

#49
AresKeith

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TMA LIVE wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Michelle Howe wrote...

EDIT: Or do you mean that the lead writing job posting means that Mac is on his way out? Not really. It just means that Bioware is handing the reins of Mass Effect over to someone else. Mac will probally stay at Bioware. At least for a bit.


I have a feeling Mac really wants to write for the next Deus Ex game or something, given how he.... emulated them so thoroughly in ME3.


Considering Casey is a fan of Deus Ex, and was even playing the new one during ME3's development, I think the reference more of came from him.


especially at the end *hint* *hint*

#50
The Angry One

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Well either way that's why both Hudson and Walters are on my "won't touch with a barge pole" list as far as future games with their names on them go.