171 réponses à ce sujet

[Aaron360]

IronRush wrote...

I wanted to see if is broken or not.
A patch is about to release. So maybe has time yet to include this if is really broken.

LOL keep dreaming. We are still waiting for the Justicar to be fixed

So sword mastery(specifically rank 6) is for heavy melee and does not affect SS? If that's the case, not terrible. I just started using heavy melee and it wrecks so this was a good time to promote and use my points differently.

[Edalborez]

Gamemako wrote...

Edalborez wrote...

Something's wrong with the bonus, but it's not broken. If anything it's just an additive damage bonus like any other, and not multiplicitive like I'd been rambling that it has been. Sorry folks.

No, it's not. As I previously tested, even if it were a 50% additive bonus, it wouldn't work out: the Centurion would be at 6 bars remaining. There is no bonus added at all. It's just not there. Meanwhile, it is seen quite clearly in light and heavy melees as a multiplicative bonus.

I do not understand why you keep towing this line when all data from every test proves you wrong.

How is my 2062.5 SS killing a 2362.5 total Silver Marauder, then? Before DoT.

Jump into the SS discussion on Balance all the things. Let's figure out what's going on.

Modifié par Edalborez, 22 juillet 2012 - 07:35 .

[o MaC BlAsTeD o]

Edalborez wrote...

Gamemako wrote...

Edalborez wrote...

Something's wrong with the bonus, but it's not broken. If anything it's just an additive damage bonus like any other, and not multiplicitive like I'd been rambling that it has been. Sorry folks.

No, it's not. As I previously tested, even if it were a 50% additive bonus, it wouldn't work out: the Centurion would be at 6 bars remaining. There is no bonus added at all. It's just not there. Meanwhile, it is seen quite clearly in light and heavy melees as a multiplicative bonus.

I do not understand why you keep towing this line when all data from every test proves you wrong.

How is my 2062.5 SS killing a 2362.5 total Silver Marauder, then? Before DoT.

Jump into the SS discussion on Balance all the things. Let's figure out what's going on.

How can this be possible my math, my math is wrong???? I can clearly see the results but I refuse to see it because my brain tells me im right.

[Gamemako]

Edalborez wrote...

How is my 2062.5 SS killing a 2362.5 total Silver Marauder, then? Before DoT.

Jump into the SS discussion on Balance all the things. Let's figure out what's going on.

I would have to guess that you've made a math error somewhere by assuming some mechanics function in a way that they do not. I removed confounders and determined that it does not affect damage. If more complex testing results in output that is not consistent, then I would first question whether your assumptions in the test of greater complexity are valid.

I'll drop in on the discussion and see if I can figure out what the correct mechanics are.

[Poulpor]

Edalborez wrote...

Gamemako wrote...

Edalborez wrote...

Something's wrong with the bonus, but it's not broken. If anything it's just an additive damage bonus like any other, and not multiplicitive like I'd been rambling that it has been. Sorry folks.

No, it's not. As I previously tested, even if it were a 50% additive bonus, it wouldn't work out: the Centurion would be at 6 bars remaining. There is no bonus added at all. It's just not there. Meanwhile, it is seen quite clearly in light and heavy melees as a multiplicative bonus.

I do not understand why you keep towing this line when all data from every test proves you wrong.

How is my 2062.5 SS killing a 2362.5 total Silver Marauder, then? Before DoT.

Jump into the SS discussion on Balance all the things. Let's figure out what's going on.

Why you don't do a basic test to see for yourself shield don't work ? a test like i did or don't put shadow strike past rank 3.

For recall my test :

TC : duration-melee damage-bonus
Electric slash : 0
Shadow strike : 3
N7 : power-power
sword mastery : sword damage - speed

i try bronze - wave 2, i have one centurion : 3 health bar left.

Now i go with 6e evolution sword mastery for shield and see what happens :  centurion still have 3 bar left

Modifié par Poulpor, 22 juillet 2012 - 08:07 .

[Micah3sixty]

One thing I just thought of is maybe only high hit point enemies would benefit from Shield/Barrier or Armor damage, IOW, perhaps the strike is too powerful to notice any different on shielded targets such that the shields are dropped before the bonus kicks in. Perhaps we should be testing on Atlases instead of Centurions. Thoughts?

[Poulpor]

A shield is a shield..

[Gamemako]

//EDIT: This is premature. tyhw has made the alternate hypothesis that the bonus is double-dipping, going into both the melee damage bonus and power damage bonus. Further testing will be necessary before I can say conclusively that it is one or the other.

//EDIT 2: and tyhw was indeed correct, as it took 1 DoT tick to kill a silver Rocket Trooper. A multiplicative bonus of 40% on top of 1290 is 1806, which should have killed him outright, while a double-dip bonus gives a damage of 1770.

Therefore, I can say that the damage bonus from Tactical Cloak is being applied twice: first to the power damage bonus, then to the melee damage bonus.

total damage = base damage * (1 + sum of power damage bonuses + sum of melee damage bonuses + 2 * tactical cloak bonus) * (1 + electrical DoT bonus)

Basically, Shadow Strike is quite bugged in general. It should not be affected by power bonuses, but it is. Because of this, Tactical Cloak's bonus is being applied twice. The Rank 6 bonus from Sword Mastery is not being applied at all. Fixing the improper application of power damage bonuses will also fix the excess bonus tactical cloak. Fixing Sword Mastery is a whole 'nother ballgame.

//EDIT 3: Testing further, I can confirm that the DoT applies to total damage rather than base damage. 1290 shadow strike with 40% TC killed a Silver Centurion during the DoT. If the DoT didn't include the TC bonus, the Centurion would have survived.

OLD MESSAGE WAS AS FOLLOWS:
zizao, I have made a new discovery over on the balance group's boards.

At least when TC is left at rank 3, the bonus is being added multiplicatively rather than additively. That is, the 40% bonus is multiplying your Shadow Strike damage by 1.4. Futher testing will have to be done to determine whether the 40% from evo6 is additive to the TC bonus or whether it is additive to the raw power bonus, but I would have to guess the former.

The 40% DoT evolution is based on base Shadow Strike damage and is therefore not affected by Shadow Strike. Essentially

Therefore, I hypothesize that the final damage dealt by the power is

total damage = base damage * (1 + sum of power damage bonuses + sum of melee damage bonuses) * (1 + tactical cloak bonus + electrical DoT bonus)

If you want to know immediate damage, simply set electrical DoT bonus to 0.

The Sword Mastery rank 6 bonus is not applied in any way to Shadow Strike, and the multiplicative bonus from Tactical Cloak is not expected at all. These are both likely bugs.

Modifié par Gamemako, 22 juillet 2012 - 09:58 .

[heybigmoney]

Sigh going to miss my flaming sword...

[Gamemako]

heybigmoney wrote...

Sigh going to miss my flaming sword...

I feel your pain. Everyone who went with 6/6/6/0/6 builds are about the respec to 6/6/6/3/5 or 6/5/6/4/5 (or if they're really inclined to spam SS, 6/4/6/5/5 for max damage bonus). A lot of people will be really unhappy when they fix the power damage bonus and their damage gets cut by ~30%. BioWare needs to hold off on fixing that bug until they fix the SM rank 6 evos.

[archangelV]

zizao wrote...

Edalborez wrote...

I don't know why your SS is performing subpar, but the power is working properly.

If Shield Damage or Armor Damage didn't work, I would be unable to kill a Silver Turret in one SS as illustrated earlier (and also Silver Phantom with Damage TC). I will provide damage numbers for clarity.
TC: Duration, Melee, Bonus Power
SS: Damage Protection, Electric, Shield Drain
N7 Shadow: 0
Sword Mastery: Sword Damage, Martial Artist, Shield Damage

600 (base)
+120 (+20%, SS rank 3)
+390 (+65%, total Sword Master)
=1110 (Shown on power screen)

1110
+540 (+90%, TC with Melee Damage, Duration)
+300 (+50%, Martial Artist)
=1950
x1.25 (Stunner/Blade)
=2437.5
+240 (+40%, SS Evolution 3 Electric Damage over 5 seconds)
=2677.5

Edalborez wrote...

Silver Turret, with Martial Artist, was reduced to ~2 bars of Armor and then killed by the DoT in ~ 2 seconds.

Silver Turret Shields/Armor: 1575 each (3150 total)
Build's Shadow Strike: 2437.5 before DoT
-Assuming the DoT spread is even and done over 5 intervals, 240/5=48. 2 ticks is 96 damage; let's go ahead and round that off to 150 due to inaccuracy of bars-as-damage.

Damage done to Shields: 1575
Damage done to Armor: ~1425
Build's Shadow Strike - damage done to Armor: 1012.5 (round off to 1000 for the hell of it)
1000 x1.5 = 1500, near the damage done to Shields.

The math basis is there, you can sort of figure it out. Here's Tangster's enemy health spreadsheet

well some math somewhere is messed up.
3150 total health for the turret
2677.5  your attack with DoT
does not equal a kill...

If you really do think that the extra damage works do a respect and try my findings out. You'll see that what I have said works. I'm guessing that something somewhere is adding adiditional power because you should not be able to kill a turret on silver if it has more health then you can do damage.

I know what is going on here, I don't have time to post it now but I'll explain later. I don't I have time to read the rest of the post but pretty much TC damage bonus is counted twice. I posted this somewhere else a couple of days ago.

Modifié par archangelV, 22 juillet 2012 - 11:56 .

[sirjimmus86]

Not sure I'm following all the mathsness here. Are we all playing on PC or different consoles.

I ask because I can one shot Gold level mauraders/centurions/rocket troopers with TC & Shadow Strike, so that works fine. I can TC & SS a Gold brute, then heavy melee it to kill. This is with the armour evolution at rank 6.

Maybe its the martial artist bonus?


Glancing at the post above, I can TC & SS a turret as well. I've never cared for these calculations, I prefer to just spec up and try how things work.

[Dendio1]

Honestly is it too much to ask that the evolutions do what they say they do?

SMG ultra light materials, Kroguard rage, now this...unacceptable

Modifié par Dendio1, 23 juillet 2012 - 12:11 .

[ajburges]

Rorioku wrote...

so i guess we can go 5 in sword mastery and 3 in shadow now oh boy

This for the win (extra 10% slash damage and 10% weight bonus)

[MaxShine]

death_for_sale wrote...

Ok, I got the Shield bonus damage video done. I wanted to make sure that it was definitely bugged and just wasn't applying extra damage once shields were gone, so I tested on Silver. The bonus here is large enough that it should have shown some difference, but it did not. I am out of respecs at the moment, so I will have to do the armor one later.

Well done !

[IronRush]

death_for_sale wrote...

Ok, I got the Shield bonus damage video done. I wanted to make sure that it was definitely bugged and just wasn't applying extra damage once shields were gone, so I tested on Silver. The bonus here is large enough that it should have shown some difference, but it did not. I am out of respecs at the moment, so I will have to do the armor one later.

The same man who solved the doubt about Phoenix Adept/Vanguard fitness is bugged or not (it isn't bugged!) is here to show his work again.
Thank you one more time Death.

About the sword mastery fix...
I really have hope they will have time to put it on next patch this week or another.
I still have faith. Lets wait guys.

Modifié par IronRush, 23 juillet 2012 - 12:52 .

[Father Superior]

Even with the knowledge that it does nothing, I don't think there's any chance of me skipping over Sword Mastery 6. Having a fiery-electric sword swing every time I use Electric Slash... I couldn't possibly give that up.

[billy the squid]

It sucks that the Shadow has so many bugs. Especially such a major one where SS doesn't actually gain any benefit from sword mastery whatsoever. Although My heavy melee causing knocking off 40% of an Atlas' armour on gold is some consolation until the SS bug gets sorted in the future.

[Shadow of Terror]

billy the squid wrote...

It sucks that the Shadow has so many bugs. Especially such a major one where SS doesn't actually gain any benefit from sword mastery whatsoever. Although My heavy melee causing knocking off 40% of an Atlas' armour on gold is some consolation until the SS bug gets sorted in the future.

It gains from sword mastery, just not from the final rank I believe.

[billy the squid]

Shadow of Terror wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

It sucks that the Shadow has so many bugs. Especially such a major one where SS doesn't actually gain any benefit from sword mastery whatsoever. Although My heavy melee causing knocking off 40% of an Atlas' armour on gold is some consolation until the SS bug gets sorted in the future.

It gains from sword mastery, just not from the final rank I believe.

I'm not sure, it certainly gains from the power bonuses, in N7 passives. But, does this mean in addition to the Sword mastery melee ranks, as in does it currently benefit from both? Or does benefiting from powers substitute for the melee damage for Sword mastery ie: it looses those the melee damage bonus? I'm not sure.

[A Wild Snorlax]

Well this explains why the shadow strike on my silly power specced electric slash spam 6/6/6/5/3 build was almost as powerful as my pure melee build.

[Immortal Strife]

Is the standard heavy melee affected by the Sword Master evolution 6 bug?

Modifié par Immortal Strife, 23 juillet 2012 - 02:00 .

[Shadow Shep]

Oh look, another character that hasn't been properly tested before being released. :/

[Shadow of Terror]

billy the squid wrote...

Shadow of Terror wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

It sucks that the Shadow has so many bugs. Especially such a major one where SS doesn't actually gain any benefit from sword mastery whatsoever. Although My heavy melee causing knocking off 40% of an Atlas' armour on gold is some consolation until the SS bug gets sorted in the future.

It gains from sword mastery, just not from the final rank I believe.

I'm not sure, it certainly gains from the power bonuses, in N7 passives. But, does this mean in addition to the Sword mastery melee ranks, as in does it currently benefit from both? Or does benefiting from powers substitute for the melee damage for Sword mastery ie: it looses those the melee damage bonus? I'm not sure.

It benefits from both, except the armour/shield damage.