89 réponses à ce sujet

[Tealjaker94]

Fauxnormal wrote...

Tealjaker94 wrote...

Just saying. I believe the people kotoreffect and fauxnormal are arguing with are all people who are at least satisfied with the ending.

Riiiiiiiight.

Don't mind me then. Continue wasting your breath.

[ediskrad327]

Galactic Dark Age and the Galaxy becoming a wasteland was crappy idea to begin with, i'm glad it was retconned

[comrade gando]

I think that is probably the least of the problems with the endings.

[revaew]

D24O wrote...

revaew wrote...

You win. 

Also, If anyone else has any information regarding my conundrum that would be super 

Well, Maybe they studied te Conduit, or in the process of building the Crucible they happened to gain some insight into the Mass Relays. They weren't broken that bad, and there should be a lot of eezo salvagable in the Reaper corpses assuming the indoctrination effect died with them.

This is a reasonable idea. Maybe the collective knowlegde of many cycles trying to build upon one anotherr for the construction of the cruicible, gave them an insight into more advanced technology than their current level. This is an interesting counter point. Thank you 

[elitehunter34]

Honestly revaew it doesn't really make sense how they can be repaired. It's been clearly stated in the series that the galaxy has no idea how they work and they've had roughly 2000 years to figure out how. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it might take anywhere from a few months to decades.

They'll need to study the archives at Ilos because the Protheans almost figured out how the mass relays worked, but with the mass relays presumably unusable they won't be able to reach it with conventional ftl, so they will only have the conduit on the Presidium to study.

The problem with that, however, is that we don't know the whereabouts of the Crucible scientists. Presumably they weren't anywhere near the battle at Earth. So if they weren't in the Sol system they wont be able to study the Presidium relay or the Citadel directly. They might be able to communicate with scientists from Earth who can send the Crucible scientists data if any quantum entanglement communicators survived.

It's never directly stated in the ending if the mass relays are completely unusable, so none of this might actually be a problem, but I assume if they are damaged they might not work properly. They could send probes to make sure they work and to test problems.

[revaew]

elitehunter34 wrote...

Honestly revaew it doesn't really make sense how they can be repaired. It's been clearly stated in the series that the galaxy has no idea how they work and they've had roughly 2000 years to figure out how. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it might take anywhere from a few months to decades.

They'll need to study the archives at Ilos because the Protheans almost figured out how the mass relays worked, but with the mass relays presumably unusable they won't be able to reach it with conventional ftl, so they will only have the conduit on the Presidium to study.

The problem with that, however, is that we don't know the whereabouts of the Crucible scientists. Presumably they weren't anywhere near the battle at Earth. So if they weren't in the Sol system they wont be able to study the Presidium relay or the Citadel directly. They might be able to communicate with scientists from Earth who can send the Crucible scientists data if any quantum entanglement communicators survived.

It's never directly stated in the ending if the mass relays are completely unusable, so none of this might actually be a problem, but I assume if they are damaged they might not work properly. They could send probes to make sure they work and to test problems.

The only problem i see with this (and i might be mistaken) is the fact that they couldn't study the one on the citated since the citadel exploded.

[Nyaore]

CINCTuchanka wrote...

To be honest, it's pandering to fans.  A lot of folks got upset that the relays were destroyed.  It's a retcon plain and simple.  Truly, it makes more sense and is more dramatically fulfilling for there to have been a Galactic Dark Age (of sorts) followed by a Renaissance of "organic" technology allowing for interstellar space-flight.  They decided not to pursue this in favor of something more traditional, and frankly boring. 

Most likely. However I think the fact that they forgot part of their own lore in the original endings might have had something to do with it. The Arrival made it VERY clear what happens when a Relay is destroyed. It wipes out all the life in that system almost instantaneously. Going by that, we wouldn't be seeing a galactic dark age so much as a mass extinction event across the entire galaxy that was THEN followed by a dark age - because only the outlying colonies in systems far away from the Relays would be spared.  Yet Bioware seemed to have forgotten this and said that no one died from the destruction. 
So either their previous canon was a lie, or they retconned and are only just now trying to fix it. A retcon of a retcon if you will.
Either way a galactic dark age is still likely when you really think about it. Fuel lines are almost completely destroyed, I think there's only four to five Fuel Depots you can visit intact over the course of ME3, and the colonies are all cut off from one another. And even though the Mass Relays are now only inactive, nobody understands how they work at all. I could see it being years or even decades before they figure out how to reactivate them back to full working order - which then coupled with the fact that most of the fuel lines are destroyed means that even once they're back up nobody is going anywhere fast. Hell, even slow interstellar travel without the relays is out of the question now because of that. If they had the fuel lines it'd only take a couple decades to travel from one end of the galaxy to the next, without them it's impossible even then. The galaxy is going to take a LONG time - possibly centuries - to recover from the War, even without the relay destruction. Which, I'll admit, is also the way I prefer it.

Modifié par Nyaore, 22 juillet 2012 - 07:37 .

[jkflipflopDAO]

Well we know of the Conduit, which is a one-way mass relay that is the size of a large statue. If the protheans could do it, I don't see any reason why the collective galactic community couldn't replicate this feat given enough time.

[LanceSolous13]

D24O wrote...

I think the Asari were working on this. They probably have QEC with their fleets, and a bunch of the best minds of the galaxy are there as a result of the Crucible project. So I guess they can find a way.

Ever wonder why Matriarch Atheta is working in a bar on Illium/Citadel?

Matriarch Atheta brought up the idea of the asari figuring out how to build a Mass Relay. The other Matriarch's "laughed the blue off her @#$" and now she works in a bar.

[Ansible]

Well, I believe, especially with the addition of the EC, that the Relays aren't fully destroyed.

And if we can build a big machine that was designed by previous cycles millions of years ago, and not even know what it does, than we can build a Mass Relay.

[DirtyPhoenix]

Tealjaker94 wrote...

Edit: I love ME3. One of my favorite games of all time including the new ending.

You are a rare species.

[DirtyPhoenix]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

D24O wrote...

I think the Asari were working on this. They probably have QEC with their fleets, and a bunch of the best minds of the galaxy are there as a result of the Crucible project. So I guess they can find a way.

Ever wonder why Matriarch Atheta is working in a bar on Illium/Citadel?

Matriarch Atheta brought up the idea of the asari figuring out how to build a Mass Relay. The other Matriarch's "laughed the blue off her @#$" and now she works in a bar.

I always go LMAO hearing the way she says it: They didn't listen to me, so now I SERVE DRINKS!

Modifié par pirate1802, 22 juillet 2012 - 11:19 .

[Haiyato]

D24O wrote...

I think the Asari were working on this. They probably have QEC with their fleets, and a bunch of the best minds of the galaxy are there as a result of the Crucible project. So I guess they can find a way.

Yea Matriarch Aethyta, when she was the bartender in ME2 brought up building plans for a Mass Relay or figuring out it works exactly or something along those lines when she was on Thessia. One of the reasons she became a bartender.

[andy6915]

There's actually a very good reason. Mass relays have quantum shields.

"The relays are made of an unknown but incredibly resilient material, the same material that the Citadel is built from, and are protected by a quantum shield that renders them nearly impervious to damage by locking their structure in place at the subatomic level."

http://masseffect.wi...wiki/Mass_Relay

Which is also to say that as long as they have that, it's impossible to open them up and study them. It's the only reason we haven't reverse engineered them, because without being able to take samples and open them up, and scan their insides and whatnot, we can't figure out how they work. Protheans super tech probably figured out how to disable the quantum shields, which is how they were able to study them to create their own. Or maybe their touch power let them scan them. Who knows? Bottom line, their shields are the reason. They keep us from studying them.

After they're damaged, their quantum shields are obviously gone by that point thanks to the damage they took. Which means that for the first time, the mass relays are now 100% able to be studied, inside and out. Not only that, only the little (compared to the rest of the relay) ring things were destroyed. It shouldn't be to hard to rebuild those little things again.

[elitehunter34]

revaew wrote...
The only problem i see with this (and i might be mistaken) is the fact that they couldn't study the one on the citated since the citadel exploded.

The Citadel didn't get annihilated.  You can see that it was still intact in all but the low EMS endings I believe.  So they could study it.  

You're right andy, if the quantum shields are disabled, they could study the mass relays more easily.  However, my previous post's statements still stand.  The only scientists that could study it would be scientists from Earth and possibly the engineers on the ships in the fleet, unless the mass relays are still functional and/or the Crucible scientists are in the Sol system.

[andy6915]

elitehunter34 wrote...
You're right andy, if the quantum shields are disabled, they could study the mass relays more easily.  However, my previous post's statements still stand.  The only scientists that could study it would be scientists from Earth and possibly the engineers on the ships in the fleet, unless the mass relays are still functional and/or the Crucible scientists are in the Sol system.

Actually, every homeworld has some great scientists, I'm sure. And everyone rushed off to their home system during the evac when they knew the Crucible was firing, right? Even if not, the homeworlds probably had enough smart people left over to start studying. Granted, things were probably weird for several months after the final battle, with probably only the major relays done. My little theory that the broken relays could still "receive" ships another relay sent its way probably sped up the repair time a lot.

[Rxdiaz]

Bill Casey wrote...

GODDAMIT WAHT HAPPENED TO MY DVR!!!

I still can't figure out how to get my tape into my DVR so I can use it....

[Ieldra]

CINCTuchanka wrote...
To be honest, it's pandering to fans.  A lot of folks got upset that the relays were destroyed.  It's a retcon plain and simple.  Truly, it makes more sense and is more dramatically fulfilling for there to have been a Galactic Dark Age (of sorts) followed by a Renaissance of "organic" technology allowing for interstellar space-flight.  They decided not to pursue this in favor of something more traditional, and frankly boring.

It would have been thematically fitting if Destroy destroyed the mass relays, while the other endings didn't. But that would've pissed off the Destroy-ing majority, so they went from three depressing endings to three good ones.

[ld1449]

CINCTuchanka wrote...

To be honest, it's pandering to fans.  A lot of folks got upset that the relays were destroyed.  It's a retcon plain and simple.  Truly, it makes more sense and is more dramatically fulfilling for there to have been a Galactic Dark Age (of sorts) followed by a Renaissance of "organic" technology allowing for interstellar space-flight.  They decided not to pursue this in favor of something more traditional, and frankly boring. 

You and Mac should get together to write a book no one will read.

Nobody but you and mac aparently want a game where they find out after x hundred hours of play time that everybody's dead. Because that's what the lore of Mass effect supports.

Even if you didn't have the exploding relays outright killing everyone, there's still the simple fact that this won't be some holding hands kumbaya scenario you're making it out to be. With everyone banding together. The galaxy is fractured, that means civilisations that won't see eachother for centuries, probably longer.  This means different forms of government, new regimes, new alliances, all of which will most likely go to war with one another on contact because they'll believe they're in the right  with the way they do things after x amount of years. Not to mention that the Krogan might just overun the galaxy outright if you cure them.

Interesting is not set in stone, anything can be made "interesting" But this was an ending to a stand alone game, not a 100 hour trilogy, at least not in the way they've pulled it off.

Furthermore interesting is subjective, what you find interesting, I might not, what I find interesting you might not.

Considering that 90% of the fans found this "galactic dark age" thoroughly uninteresting and quite frankly, downright stupid with the half assed explanations in the original endings it goes to show that this ending fit about as well as a triangle in a square shaped hole.

You call it pandering. I call it listening to people that make sense and know the lore more than the goddamn lead writer who said and I quote.

"Half the time I need to look at the Wiki since I forget the details. Haha"

[AresKeith]

KevShep wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

They were only destroyed in the original endings. They're only "severely damaged" now.

Cause, y'know, Bioware wasn't going to change anything in the endings!

Art is far more powerful than any of us can possibly imagine.

Mac Walters can stir up bull**** with a snap of his finger.

Funny thing about art is that anything (even the completely stupid) can be "art". It does not have to make any sense if its art. I guess the writers forgot that about games,  games have to make sense as well.

so that was Mac and Casey plan all along  so evil lol

[elitehunter34]

ld1449 wrote...
"Half the time I need to look at the Wiki since I forget the details. Haha"

Jesus did he really say that?  What kind of details is he forgetting?  The ending (both old and EC) suggests that he forgot a few important details.

And I don't see how destroying the relays would be thematically fitting or satisfying at all.  It wasn't foreshadowed at all.  With the kind of people working on the relays, something like that would be forshadowed.  And why does the Crucible have to destroy the relays?  Why does the ending have to be so brutal?  Can't a game have a happy ending and yet still be good?  A dire cost for an arbitrary reason doesn't make something meaningful, it just means the authors are afraid of having a happy ending because it isn't "artistic".  If you want an ending to be bad, make it so that it flows logically from the story, don't make it happen for no reason. 

[sth128]

Fauxnormal wrote...

Oh look. A chance for the QQers to QQ.

I like how BW fans just say "QQ" when they are confronted with flaws and inconsistencies brought up about the games. Why QQ about people who QQ? QQ within QQ, Queception?


Anyway, @OP, the Protheans were on the verge of unlocking the mysteries of the Mass Relays. It is possible, though unlikely, that the Crucible project accelerated the galactic understanding of Mass Relays.

Personally I don't think they gained so much knowledge that they can fix everything right away, but Hackett did say "years". The "we can rebuild everything" quote is probably something he said to others just to boost morale.

Realistically speaking, the galaxy will still go through a period of extreme poverty and economic downfall. The majority of trades will cease due to lack of Relay travel, resources will be thin since they spent a lot on the Crucible. Disease, famine, and political instability are definite since a) military enforcement is severely depleted, the galactic council and Citadel are non-functional, and c) most planets are devastated.

But yeah, maybe a couple of decades later, most of the Relays would be fixed and the galaxy returns to its former glory...

... Then someone creates an AI and *bleep* everything up again.:O:O

[AresKeith]

Ieldra2 wrote...

CINCTuchanka wrote...
To be honest, it's pandering to fans.  A lot of folks got upset that the relays were destroyed.  It's a retcon plain and simple.  Truly, it makes more sense and is more dramatically fulfilling for there to have been a Galactic Dark Age (of sorts) followed by a Renaissance of "organic" technology allowing for interstellar space-flight.  They decided not to pursue this in favor of something more traditional, and frankly boring.

It would have been thematically fitting if Destroy destroyed the mass relays, while the other endings didn't. But that would've pissed off the Destroy-ing majority, so they went from three depressing endings to three good ones.

how would it have been thematically fitting?

[ZLurps]

elitehunter34 wrote...

ld1449 wrote...
"Half the time I need to look at the Wiki since I forget the details. Haha"

Jesus did he really say that?  What kind of details is he forgetting?  The ending (both old and EC) suggests that he forgot a few important details.

And I don't see how destroying the relays would be thematically fitting or satisfying at all.  It wasn't foreshadowed at all.  With the kind of people working on the relays, something like that would be forshadowed.  And why does the Crucible have to destroy the relays?  Why does the ending have to be so brutal?  Can't a game have a happy ending and yet still be good?  A dire cost for an arbitrary reason doesn't make something meaningful, it just means the authors are afraid of having a happy ending because it isn't "artistic".  If you want an ending to be bad, make it so that it flows logically from the story, don't make it happen for no reason. 

Prothean VI was supposed to tell you, that using Crusible woud lead to galactic dark age (From the Final Hours).

Thematically fitting (with what there is) yes, but satisfying? No way in hell.

I don't have a link for interview, but either Hudson or Walters said somewhere, that ending was rammed together in 2-3 months. Some content were already cut before to meet the deadline, (Omega for example) but that still didn't gave them enough time to flesh the ending. We got probably 3/4 th. of what was originally planned.

That said, with so little information available, I don't see any point to argue if planned galactic dark age was Walter's vision from the beginning, or just something he had to make up because that was implementable with given resources.

BTW: Extremely difficult moral decisions in the ending were AFAIK originally Drew's idea, and I guess were supposed to be tied to dark energy endings. I guess we got something like that with Walter's take on it on ME3.


About Drew and Walters: I think Drew has more influence from old sci-fi novels and such things can create fantastic worlds and plausible technologies. Indoctrination for example is IMO a master piece.

Walters seems to be more like a character writer and likes to bend to rules of universe rather than let those things become obstacles for his characters.

Drew wrote novels, Walters wrote comics, I think both have their strenghts and weaknesses, even though I personally prefer novels.

Modifié par ZLurps, 22 juillet 2012 - 03:31 .

[magikbbg]

Bill gathers the best minds of jersey shore to reconstruct the DVR.