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The DA Twitter Thread - now with added surprise and delight


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#51
ElitePinecone

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Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Well... I don't see this thread devolving into a massive speculation based orgy at all. :P


My secret plan, ruined! :whistle:

I just figured that the DA forum doesn't have a Twitter thread (as far as I know hardly any devs were tweeting during DA2's development), that more and more devs are on there interacting with fans, that at least a couple of them are more or less posting teasers, and that the ME version of this thread actually proved quite useful in rounding up news and tidbits of info about the games. 

I updated the OP to change Alain's role (I'm not quite sure what Chris meant, some of the older DA sprint review tweets were from March or April?) and to add Evil Priestly (convention swag-wrangler is a good enough justification for being on this list, surely?). 

#52
leighzard

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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

leborum wrote...

On June 2 Mark Darrah wrote:
Shield men guarding archers. #sprintReviewDay


Can my rogue still just teleport behind the sheild guy to stab all the archers?


I should hope not. That would defeat the purpose of the phalanx formation if you could just easily make it seem inconsequential. I would hope that Backstab would be rendered unusable to stab the backs of the shield men or the archers, unless you were actually on that side when they set up the formation.

Not to mention how unrealistic it is. I'd also hope that the ability itself gets tweaked to be more realistic, because in DAII I chalk that up to Varric embellishing on the more OTT animations and aspects -- considering he's done so before, I see no reason to assume he's not still doing it when describing fight scenes to Cassandra.

Backstab should either have the rogue drop a smoke bomb that covers a good portion of the field in smoke -- so as to convey that... hey, your Rogue is concealed -- and either have the Rogue automatically run towards the back of the enemy or just give you a stealth bonus so you can do it yourself -- as opposed to automatically teleporting there.

Because again, I choose to see that as Varric embellishing.

And this is coming from a person that was a fan of the majority of DAII's new animations, even though he absolutely hated the combat due to the disparity between party and foes and how broken it was. And this is all IMO, mind you.

I also am overall a fan of the updated combat system in DA2.  DA:O was pretty clunky, but in order to get the position bonus for backstab, you actually had to position yourself behind an enemy.  Duh.  It'll be interesting to see what changes are made to the combat.  As far as sheild guys go, I actually really liked the Guardians in ME3.  You had to distract them, flank them, snipe them, or find a way to get rid of their sheilds.

#53
Amycus89

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leborum wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

leborum wrote...

On June 2 Mark Darrah wrote:
Shield men guarding archers. #sprintReviewDay


Can my rogue still just teleport behind the sheild guy to stab all the archers?


I should hope not. That would defeat the purpose of the phalanx formation if you could just easily make it seem inconsequential. I would hope that Backstab would be rendered unusable to stab the backs of the shield men or the archers, unless you were actually on that side when they set up the formation.

Not to mention how unrealistic it is. I'd also hope that the ability itself gets tweaked to be more realistic, because in DAII I chalk that up to Varric embellishing on the more OTT animations and aspects -- considering he's done so before, I see no reason to assume he's not still doing it when describing fight scenes to Cassandra.

Backstab should either have the rogue drop a smoke bomb that covers a good portion of the field in smoke -- so as to convey that... hey, your Rogue is concealed -- and either have the Rogue automatically run towards the back of the enemy or just give you a stealth bonus so you can do it yourself -- as opposed to automatically teleporting there.

Because again, I choose to see that as Varric embellishing.

And this is coming from a person that was a fan of the majority of DAII's new animations, even though he absolutely hated the combat due to the disparity between party and foes and how broken it was. And this is all IMO, mind you.

I also am overall a fan of the updated combat system in DA2.  DA:O was pretty clunky, but in order to get the position bonus for backstab, you actually had to position yourself behind an enemy.  Duh.  It'll be interesting to see what changes are made to the combat.  As far as sheild guys go, I actually really liked the Guardians in ME3.  You had to distract them, flank them, snipe them, or find a way to get rid of their sheilds.

Personally I actually liked it when you had to manually position the rogues for backstabs - but yes, it felt incredibly clunky. However, I think that could have been easily solvable by simply making rogues sprint in combat, moving faster to get in position. Rogues are afterall supposed to move a tad bit faster than the warriors wearing massive armor.

#54
Yrkoon

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BobSmith101 wrote...

That sort of formation just screams "insert fireball here". 

  

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Don't really see the point of having a "phalanx" formation. Grouped enemies just make it easier for me to do some serious mage damage. Hell, the best strategy in DA2 is to get everyone grouped up and nuked. Now i don't have to worry up the "grouping them up" part.

Yep.  This.

Add in the "no friendly fire" rule from DA2 and any type of  enemy crowd formation becomes a brainless, unimaginitive 2 step process.

Step 1) have your melee guy do a bull rush into the formation to get the enemy's full attention.
Step 2) Have your mage or mages unload their big AOEs. on the crowd

The end.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 24 juillet 2012 - 03:01 .


#55
leighzard

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Amycus89 wrote...

Personally I actually liked it when you had to manually position the rogues for backstabs - but yes, it felt incredibly clunky. However, I think that could have been easily solvable by simply making rogues sprint in combat, moving faster to get in position. Rogues are afterall supposed to move a tad bit faster than the warriors wearing massive armor.

I liked that aspect of DA:O's combat as well.  It made sense.  There are some problems that I think DA2 fixed, but backstab wasn't one of them.  Sorry if that was unclear.  I have a tendency to let my sentences meander.

#56
Kleon

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So much about short tweets...

I can only imagine the temptation that all the BioWare people face now, the temptetion to tweet things. things that can send fans into speculation rampage, rampage that can shfit in to berserk walls of texts on this forum.

All I'm saying is that I'm just wating for more cryptic tweets that might actually be just for the fun of seeing the fans go crazy.

Modifié par Kunkryst, 24 juillet 2012 - 06:22 .


#57
Maclimes

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Yrkoon wrote...

Step 1) have your melee guy do a bull rush into the formation to get the enemy's full attention.
Step 2) Have your mage or mages unload their big AOEs. on the crowd

The end.


A one man army can do this if you spec Force Mage. I love sucking all the enemies into spot and then just pulverizing them. (Also, that "bounce them off the ground like a basketball" spell may be my favorite spell of all time.)

#58
TEWR

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Yrkoon wrote...

Yep.  This.

Add in the "no friendly fire" rule from DA2 and any type of  enemy crowd formation becomes a brainless, unimaginitive 2 step process.

Step 1) have your melee guy do a bull rush into the formation to get the enemy's full attention.
Step 2) Have your mage or mages unload their big AOEs. on the crowd

The end.


BobSmith101 wrote...

That sort of formation just screams "insert fireball here".

Without something akin to D&D's AoO's you can just walk by guards anyway.



Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Don't really see the point of having a "phalanx" formation. Grouped enemies just make it easier for me to do some serious mage damage. Hell, the best strategy in DA2 is to get everyone grouped up and nuked. Now i don't have to worry up the "grouping them up" part.


This is why I stressed on the first page that I would hope it wouldn't be so easily dispatched and is why I said on the second page that I hated DAII's combat despite liking the new animations. The combat is unbalanced, broken, and carries with it a massive disparity between party and foe. Add into that Yrkoon's mention of the friendly fire only being available on Nightmare....

If the phalanx formation is so easily handled by just spamming AoE attacks or anything of the sort, it loses its tactical potential and just becomes a meaningless visual.

#59
Amycus89

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Yrkoon wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

That sort of formation just screams "insert fireball here". 

  

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Don't really see the point of having a "phalanx" formation. Grouped enemies just make it easier for me to do some serious mage damage. Hell, the best strategy in DA2 is to get everyone grouped up and nuked. Now i don't have to worry up the "grouping them up" part.

Yep.  This.

Add in the "no friendly fire" rule from DA2 and any type of  enemy crowd formation becomes a brainless, unimaginitive 2 step process.

Step 1) have your melee guy do a bull rush into the formation to get the enemy's full attention.
Step 2) Have your mage or mages unload their big AOEs. on the crowd

The end.


This is just an idea that I got just now, but if said phalanx formation had shields that magic can't penetrate if it hits straight on (wasn't there a scene like that in the movie "dawn of the seeker"?) might allow some flanking strategies, or letting your warriors bash their way in to disorient the group momentarily.

And as for friendly fire, I'm sincerely hoping that they willgive us a check box to turn it on or off. If I want to play easy mode with friendly fire, let me do that. Similarly, if I want hard mode WITHOUT friendly fire,let me do that.

On a side note, I'm not saying that they should turn DA to a RTS (maker forbid, please read the whole post before bursting into rage), but maybe borrowing some ideas from the total war series in terms of how the terrain might change the combat. For example, if you run upwards a hill that's filled with enemies, you will run slower while archers pick you off. Similarly, if you charge down a hill you should be able to run down faster and gain a combat bonus.

#60
Amycus89

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leborum wrote...

Amycus89 wrote...

Personally I actually liked it when you had to manually position the rogues for backstabs - but yes, it felt incredibly clunky. However, I think that could have been easily solvable by simply making rogues sprint in combat, moving faster to get in position. Rogues are afterall supposed to move a tad bit faster than the warriors wearing massive armor.

I liked that aspect of DA:O's combat as well.  It made sense.  There are some problems that I think DA2 fixed, but backstab wasn't one of them.  Sorry if that was unclear.  I have a tendency to let my sentences meander.


I think it simply having to do with the combat in DA2 always being "over-the-top". I don't have any problem with a rogue using smoke bombs. However, I DO have a problem with them suddenly teleporting behind their back. It would be better if they just throw a smoke bomb that temporarily made the enemies choke, then run behind them yourself to do the backstabbing. I would however be completely okay with a separate talent that made you simply jump over any enemies in your path (for example, once you activate the talen you see a circle with a certain radius surrounding the rogue, and he/she can jump over any obstacles within this area, right in the middle of your enemies if he/she wish. Of course a rogue doesn't need to run faster when you are just exploring, but in combat I find it obvious that a rogue should try to sprint to get to their target as they are the most vulnerable. A talent like dropping smoke bombs while running,leaving behind a trail of choking smoke for a short period of time,would also be a talent I could see that would both be very strategic and fun. :bandit: Of course, that requires them to have a faster running speed on the battlefield than other classes.

When I give it a second thought, the combat in DA2 isn't THAT bad as I have often  said before. It's just way, way,WAY too flashy. For example, the 2h warrior has a talent that could make him rush and easily kill a bunch of enemies in front of him in one second. Had they just changed that to an ability that lets the PC charge in a straight line that you need to plot yourself (and can't be changed once activated, it can only be canceled if you change your mind, but that will start a cooldown before you can try it again), only knocking down all enemies without damaging them,I would have liked it a LOT better.

It's things like these that encourage the use of different party members, and makes it necessary to try and predict how the situation will look like the next 5 seconds. That's what I disliked about DA2, it wasn't realistic,and didn't require as much strategy with the positioning when you could just get to a spot in less than a second to start hammering things. 

Short story, the combat in DA2 could use a lot of improvements for a person like me who likes to take my time pausing every now and then to make up my startegy, but the idea behind it isn't really that bad. It's just the unrealistic bits like instant "teleporting" that I don't like. Talents that require SOME kind of preparation is always good to, like deciding where you should place that fireball. However, none of the stuff like in DA:O with the "epic" spells where you just look at your guy loading his bar above his head to 100% before he casts it, please - not even I liked that. You will at least need some good looking animation for that instead of waiting for a visible loading bar being filled.

Modifié par Amycus89, 24 juillet 2012 - 10:43 .


#61
Melca36

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Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Don't really see the point of having a "phalanx" formation. Grouped enemies just make it easier for me to do some serious mage damage. Hell, the best strategy in DA2 is to get everyone grouped up and nuked. Now i don't have to worry up the "grouping them up" part.


Um...Some people want depth when they play a game. They dont want instant gratification and everything handed to them.

They already said the combat was not going to be like DA:2 so better prepare yourself now.

#62
Yrkoon

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Amycus89 wrote...


This is just an idea that I got just now, but if said phalanx formation had shields that magic can't penetrate if it hits straight on (wasn't there a scene like that in the movie "dawn of the seeker"?) might allow some flanking strategies, or letting your warriors bash their way in to disorient the group momentarily.

Yeah, in a scenario where the Phalanx Formation is 100% magic resistant, the tactic to deal with it changes, but only somewhat.  Your mages are suddenly useless.  But no matter, just send  your warrior in.


Step 1:  2-h sweep
Step 2: Mighty blow 

Meanwhile, if you got a rogue, have him toss bombs from a distance.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of any type of "formation" that sees a crowd of enemies bunched up together.  It's just too exploitable.  The most tactical types of encounters  are ones like we saw in legacy, where you often found yourself surrounded on all sides, and then you look up and see archers sniping at you from rooftops.   Now that's a situation takes some thinking.

Of course,  I'd hate to have every battle be like that, because that'd just be a tedius bore, but the major battles  should all be thinking affairs

Modifié par Yrkoon, 25 juillet 2012 - 09:57 .


#63
Melca36

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Yrkoon wrote...

Amycus89 wrote...


This is just an idea that I got just now, but if said phalanx formation had shields that magic can't penetrate if it hits straight on (wasn't there a scene like that in the movie "dawn of the seeker"?) might allow some flanking strategies, or letting your warriors bash their way in to disorient the group momentarily.

Yeah, in a situation where the Phalanx Formation is 100% magic resistant, the tactic to deal with it changes, but only somewhat.  Your mages are suddenly useless.  But no matter, just send  your warrior in.


Step 1:  2-h sweep
Step 2: Mighty blow 

Meanwhile, if you got a rogue, have him toss bombs from a distance.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of any type of "formation" that sees a crowd of enemies bunched up together.  It's just too exploitable.  The most tactical types of encounters  are ones like we saw in legacy, where you often found yourself surrounded on all sides, and then you look up and see archers sniping at you from rooftips.  THAT sitation takes some thinking.



Yeah, you had to work to defeat the bonus boss! I enjoyed that battle. :happy:

#64
AkiKishi

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[quote]The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Don't really see the point of having a "phalanx" formation. Grouped enemies just make it easier for me to do some serious mage damage. Hell, the best strategy in DA2 is to get everyone grouped up and nuked. Now i don't have to worry up the "grouping them up" part.[/quote]

This is why I stressed on the first page that I would hope it wouldn't be so easily dispatched and is why I said on the second page that I hated DAII's combat despite liking the new animations. The combat is unbalanced, broken, and carries with it a massive disparity between party and foe. Add into that Yrkoon's mention of the friendly fire only being available on Nightmare....

If the phalanx formation is so easily handled by just spamming AoE attacks or anything of the sort, it loses its tactical potential and just becomes a meaningless visual.
[/quote]

A lot of our stratagies and tactics would fall appart in a magic world. Using that formation against a mage would be as suicidal as using pike and musket tactics against an army equipped with rifles.

#65
Wulfram

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I don't thing having phalanxes makes all that much sense in the sort of small scale fights you're seeing in RPGs.

The Warrior ability "Battle Synergy" wasn't a bad way of representing people fighting as a team, with defensive bonuses for sticking fairly close together. Giving enemy leader types that sort of ability, and an AI that encourages them to stick together by focusing on a single enemy, might be interesting.

#66
KingRoxas

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Thank you ElitePinecone, hope you continue to update this. :)

#67
Cimeas

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Thing is, I know the 'attract, group, CC, AOE' tactic is simple but it's just SO fun. Just freezing people and shattering them is really enjoyable and quite frankly I felt epic doing so.

#68
ElitePinecone

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On July 25 Mark Darrah wrote:
Sorry I haven't had any Dragon Age news in a while. We are working away and that we will talk about it once there is something to show.


Then in response to tweeted question: "Is there any concept art or anything you can throw at us? Dying to see some of the amazing work!"

"not until I have some game to show with it."

#69
Yrkoon

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Say what? The tweeter asked for concept art. Why do they need to show the game before they can show any concept art? That makes no sense.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 26 juillet 2012 - 01:24 .


#70
Reznore57

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Maybe some concept art won't end up in the game , and they're cautious about it.
Besides it seems they're more about "show don't tell" , and IMHO it's better even if it means waiting ...
Don't wanna get back on the whole ME3 thing , but building up some "hype " about something that isn't there (when they 're not sure if if it's gonna be in the game at the end) can really bite you back in the a**.

The fact that they remain silent and seem pretty serious about what they will or will not deliver , makes me feel like i can trust them about the way they 're gonna advertise DA3.

#71
Tonia Laird

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All concept art tells a story, so posting any could give away information we didn't mean to give away. That's the rough of it, unfortunately.

#72
devSin

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In case you didn't get the message, Elite, that means you need to add Tonia to the list of developer Twitter accounts. ;-)

#73
brushyourteeth

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Maclimes wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Step 1) have your melee guy do a bull rush into the formation to get the enemy's full attention.
Step 2) Have your mage or mages unload their big AOEs. on the crowd

The end.


A one man army can do this if you spec Force Mage. I love sucking all the enemies into spot and then just pulverizing them. (Also, that "bounce them off the ground like a basketball" spell may be my favorite spell of all time.)

A mage after my own heart!  Image IPB

#74
Tonia Laird

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devSin wrote...

In case you didn't get the message, Elite, that means you need to add Tonia to the list of developer Twitter accounts. ;-)


Was I that obvious!? Actually, I thought I was already on the list. I guess I shouldn't skim so much. But yeah! Add Tonia!

"Yeah! What she said!"

"Yeah!"

#75
ElitePinecone

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Tonia Laird wrote...

devSin wrote...

In case you didn't get the message, Elite, that means you need to add Tonia to the list of developer Twitter accounts. ;-)


Was I that obvious!? Actually, I thought I was already on the list. I guess I shouldn't skim so much. But yeah! Add Tonia! 

"Yeah! What she said!" 

"Yeah!"

 

I can't resist such a chorus! Added :innocent: 

(I've probably missed a bunch of DA devs, there's no exhaustive list anywhere so you were all tricky to track down)