247 réponses à ce sujet

[Kamfrenchie]

Geneaux486 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

But with low EMS the Crucible is damaged before use.

And its possible functions are more limited.

there is no way usable piece of the human reaper coul survive the explosion, and no way TIM shouldbe able to recover that muc, it wasin th every center of thebase, an we killed it before, so yeah there shouldn't be anything left. So for all intent and purposes, mass effect 2 parangon ending is fake, sinceboth amound to the samething in th end.

You don't know any of this, you're assuming, and your assumption is contradicted by the fact that the human-reaper fragments do survive.

It is a result of it providing a significant power source. Again. Are you saying the Catalyst is lying?

If it changed the Catalyst, then it is more than a power source, and we know it changed the Catalyst.  Doesn't mean the Catalyst is lying, means that he's giving us details little by little over the course of the entire conversation.

Vendetta is making assumptions

Nothing to suggest that Vendetta is making assumptions, I reject that headcanon.

Yes I know all of this, Sovreign got destroyed by uman eapon once its shield went down, and onlt pices were left afte it collidd with the citadel.
Hence there is no way a baby reaper (much weaker and lready dead) could survive such an explosion, causig much more damage.

I am arguing working fragments urvivin is stupid and illogical and I have proof. If the ababy reaper parts survived in good shape, Sovreignwouldn't just have been broken down in little pieces like that.

Again, ME 2 parangon ending is false and pretty much = to renegade ending

[The Twilight God]

The Twilight God wrote...

Option 2: Control The Reapers.
The Reapers introduce the idea that Shepard, a sole human, can take control of the entire Reaper Armada. The Reapers, as we have been told in the past, are each a nation. Legion explained that there were a multitude of programs within Sovereign; perhaps equal in measure to the entire Geth Collective. And that is just one reaper. The Reaper forces at earth alone outnumber the entire allied fleet assembled by Shepard and even that is merely a fraction of their forces.

“TIM could not do it, but you? Oh, you’ve got it in the bag, Champ.” Sorry, but indoctrinated or not this proposition sounds fishy. Also note that the Control option doesn’t give Shepard control over all synthetics; just the reapers. The Geth, with their fancy reaper code upgrades, are spared this thralldom. Whatever happened to the indiscriminate sawed-off shotgun that is the Destroy Crucible?

All Shepard has to do is act as a fuse between two live electrical conduits and be disintegrated. Shepard has no prior data to suggest that being disintegrated via high voltage current will do anything except take his life and leave the Reapers free to continue destroying everything he has fought so hard these past 3 years to protect. It’s quite the gamble considering the option to destroy the Reapers and guarantee victory is right there.

Just moments earlier, Shepard argued with The Illusive Man against this very course of action. His exact statements were, “You're playing with things you don't understand. With power you shouldn't be able to use” and Shepard can question TIM asking, “Are you willing to bet humanity's existence on it?” Yet all it takes is one confirmation from the Reapers that it can work for Shepard to completely reverse his position on the subject. So now, betting humanity’s existence on the endorsement of the Reapers (who are currently doing their best to destroy all space-faring species) is now an acceptable risk. Recall what indoctrinated TIM said to Shepard when he asks, "Why waste your time with us if you can control the Reapers?" TIM (under Reaper influence) answers, "Because... I need you to believe." But you see, it's not TIM who needs Shepard to believe. Tim has the physical capacity to open the arms himself. It's the Reapers who need Shepard to believe. They are trying to indoctrinate Shepard through TIM as the Reapers tried to indoctrinate Kahlee Sanders through Paul Grayson. This is why this ending cannot be taken seriously.

Now we see why the Catalyst wishes to imply Shepard will die if he chooses to destroy the Reapers; to prevent any notion of self preservation from playing a role in the decision. Oh, and the Reapers are supposedly uncomfortable with Shepard taking control of them. This comment is thrown in to give the false impression that Shepard is in some way acting against the will of the Reapers with this action. He’s not.

Control is written as a Reaper choice. Something they WANT Shepard to believe in and follow through with.
Same for Synthesis. It is exactly what a reaper controlled Saren preached.

And in the end. Ater arguing with both Saren and TIM we now do a 180 and agree with them? 3 years of fighting and then from one word from the Reaper King we now believe in their ideals? Control and Synthesis are both indoctrinated choices. No other way around it.

The Twilight God wrote...

I don’t necessarily hate Synthesis and Control in theory. Synthesis is pure fairy magic, but I can live with this albeit with a few changes I’ll elaborate on in my next segment. I find those two endings - as is - illegitimate. Why are they illegitimate? They are both chosen by an indoctrinated Shepard and don’t accomplish the goal of the protagonist. They are actually variations of a “Reapers Win” ending. Given the fact that Shepard has no reason to trust the Reapers his willingness to kill himself to advance their agenda makes it quite clear he was overcome by the indoctrination process in those last moments. As far as I’m concerned those endings - as is - are delusions of a dying man playing out during the last seconds of his life. Shepard died and the cycle continued.

Or, perphaps the endings do play out, but not as joy in EDI's voice isn't her joy. But she is just a reaper mouthpiece forced into "enjoying" synthesis. And Shepard Control could be a delusional broken mind within the greater reaper superconsciousness projecting what it wants to see. These endings leave the player themselves in a state of indoctrination even after the credits roll.

http://social.biowar...9625/1#13059664

Modifié par The Twilight God, 22 juillet 2012 - 05:09 .

[Geneaux486]

So you're calling the Catalyst a liar.

Putting words in my mouth is beneath you as well.

It is stated by a source that had previously stated her desire to never be a part of anything like this, with extremely suspicious wording and unbelievable circumstances (people happily standing beside Reapers shortly after the war? Come on.).

Suspicion and unbelievability are matters of opinion.  Fact is that the game presents synthesis as a success, despite any fears that existed beforehand.  Stated in the game.

Again, this is irrelevant to the fact that the Reapers desire synthesis, and synthesis vindicates them by turning all life into Reaper-forms.

Synthesis is never stated or implied to be Reaper form, this is headcanon.  Nothing irrelevant, the Reapers tried synthesis, failed, and assumed they were the pinnacle of life.  Synthesis proves them wrong.

This is pure headcanon. The Catalyst outright states that the Crucible is just a power source, and that it's decision that it's current solution no longer works has little to do with the Crucible and more the arbitrary rule that an organic made it as far as to interact with it.

It's not headcanon, it's stated in the game.  The Catalyst acknowleges that the Crucible changed it, and created new possibilities where there were none.  It admits that it is incapable of using the device itself.  It admits that its solution no longer works.  It helps Shepard to activate the weapon that is of organic design and consutruction.  The Catalyst submits, all of the factors that prove this are stated in the game directly.

Again, why do you ignore the fact that the Crucible's functions are activated on the Citadel? Why would they be there?

 
I ignore nothing.  Whatever was already present on the Citadel, the Crucible was modified to interact with it.  Stated in the game.

Why would the Catalyst say that it's little more than a power source?

I can only speculate as to why. 

Why did it lie about thinking the "concept" had been eradicated when indoctrinated Protheans knew of it, and TIM knew of it as soon as we did?

Nothing to suggest the Catalyst was lying about believing the concept was extinguished, never stated in the game.

I just want to caution you on this "Stated in Game," as validation for any particular argument. Characters lie or they don't have the full information to provide a completely objective perspective on something.

If a character were lying they would be revealed to have been lying before the game ended.  The fact that you're cautioning me against using in-game facts to validate what I'm saying is absurd.

[Ageless Face]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
Yes. Catalyst supporters or even better: reaper apologists. Those who defend the hypothetical threat or the solutions to that hypothetical threat by the reapers or by the brat in the ending.

I never defended it and said he was right about it. In fact, I haven't seen anyone defending the catalyst. So from where did you get that I or anyone else defend the catalyst or the reapers? I never believed what they did is right, nor do I believe their logic is right.

 
One major problem is that the three platforms are part of the Citadel and are not part of the Crucible. That means that whatever option you select must have the approval of the brat. Each option is part of his agenda. Even destroy, which exterminates the geth. We see the brat disappear in thin air in control and destroy, but not in synthesis. Does it mean that the brat is dead or just gone in any of those options?

Does it matter? We know the reapers won't attack in synthesis. There is peace now, the catalyst living doesn't change that. The people who chose synthesis are aware of that.

And synthesis is exactly what Saren described.


"The relationship is symbiotic. Organic and machine intertwined, a union of flesh and steal. The strengths of both, the weaknesses of neither. I am a vision of the future, Shepard. The evolution of all organic life. This is our destiny. Join Sovereign and experience a true rebirth!" - Saren Arterius.

Since when is submission equal to compromise?

Also, Saren was refering only to organics. Synthesis will merge both synthetics and organics.

Modifié par HagarIshay, 22 juillet 2012 - 05:11 .

[elitehunter34]

HagarIshay wrote...
All we saw until now, are indoctrinated people that couldn't succeed shake off the indoctrinaion more than a few minutes. I'll be generous and even say an hour or two. Even if Shepard will fight off the indoctrination... I don't think it'll be for a long enough time to defeat the reapers, if the fleets will even have more use of Shepard. If Shep is indoctrinated, s/he's gone for good.

And again, I never said Shepard is Indoctrinated.  Shepard is in the process of being Indoctrinated.  Someone that is not fully Indoctrinated won't suffer ill effects if the source of Indoctrination is removed before the person is fully indoctrinated.  That sounds reasonable to me.

[Kamfrenchie]

Geneaux486 wrote...

So you're calling the Catalyst a liar.

Putting words in my mouth is beneath you as well.

It is stated by a source that had previously stated her desire to never be a part of anything like this, with extremely suspicious wording and unbelievable circumstances (people happily standing beside Reapers shortly after the war? Come on.).

Suspicion and unbelievability are matters of opinion.  Fact is that the game presents synthesis as a success, despite any fears that existed beforehand.  Stated in the game.

Again, this is irrelevant to the fact that the Reapers desire synthesis, and synthesis vindicates them by turning all life into Reaper-forms.

Synthesis is never stated or implied to be Reaper form, this is headcanon.  Nothing irrelevant, the Reapers tried synthesis, failed, and assumed they were the pinnacle of life.  Synthesis proves them wrong.

This is pure headcanon. The Catalyst outright states that the Crucible is just a power source, and that it's decision that it's current solution no longer works has little to do with the Crucible and more the arbitrary rule that an organic made it as far as to interact with it.

It's not headcanon, it's stated in the game.  The Catalyst acknowleges that the Crucible changed it, and created new possibilities where there were none.  It admits that it is incapable of using the device itself.  It admits that its solution no longer works.  It helps Shepard to activate the weapon that is of organic design and consutruction.  The Catalyst submits, all of the factors that prove this are stated in the game directly.

Again, why do you ignore the fact that the Crucible's functions are activated on the Citadel? Why would they be there?

 
I ignore nothing.  Whatever was already present on the Citadel, the Crucible was modified to interact with it.  Stated in the game.

Why would the Catalyst say that it's little more than a power source?

I can only speculate as to why. 

Why did it lie about thinking the "concept" had been eradicated when indoctrinated Protheans knew of it, and TIM knew of it as soon as we did?

Nothing to suggest the Catalyst was lying about believing the concept was extinguished, never stated in the game.

I just want to caution you on this "Stated in Game," as validation for any particular argument. Characters lie or they don't have the full information to provide a completely objective perspective on something.

If a character were lying they would be revealed to have been lying before the game ended.  The fact that you're cautioning me against using in-game facts to validate what I'm saying is absurd.

If he catalsy surrended it would just ask for a cease fire with Hacktt, and ask shepard what to do, not give him 3 choices.

Forcing someone into 3 choices designed y you isn't surrendering.

Had the reapers stoped fighting and let the allince determine their fate, it would be surrenndering

[Applepie_Svk]

HagarIshay wrote...


And I don't think Shepard has a Thorian to help him/her get out of the indoctrination.

From: Shiala

Dear Commander Shepard:

I don't know if you've seen the articles, but the people of Zhu's Hope are fighting again. This time it's the Reapers instead of the geth.

I'm not sure if you remember me, but you helped me back on lllium. The Thorian is dead now. I can confirm that. But the spores in our bodies remain, and on some level, we are still connected.

This is not necessarily a bad thing. As we fight back the Reapers, we feel each other, and act with one mind, ignoring pain when the need arises. I'm sure I'm still indoctrinated. I remember Sovereign's voice in my mind when I went willingly to the Thorian as its thrall. But my connection to the people of Zhu's Hope is stronger. It drowns out the Reaper voices.

This situation is imperfect, and dangerous. Perhaps the colonists should separate, for their own safety. But with one mind, the untrained fight with the skill of veteran commandos. Our force is strong.

I have not forgotten how you helped us, how you spared me. We are leaving Feros soon, and when the time comes, we will fight with you.

Shiala 

[Ageless Face]

elitehunter34 wrote...
And again, I never said Shepard is Indoctrinated.  Shepard is in the process of being Indoctrinated.  Someone that is not fully Indoctrinated won't suffer ill effects if the source of Indoctrination is removed before the person is fully indoctrinated.  That sounds reasonable to me.

So I don't understand. Shepard is in the process of indoctrination. Then all the hallucination happens, Shepard needs to make a choice, three choices of those will continue the indoctrination. S/he chooses destroy. Then what? Shepard's mind was this close to be indoctrinated. Desrtoy will be nothing more than shaking the indoctrinatioon off. If Shepard was still in the process of indoctrination, the hallucination wouldn't have happened.

[SubAstris]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

This is what happened to Saren, watch an think about that.... 

Most interesting quotes from Saren Arterius before he blew his head off:

I´ve change since than improved...I supposed should thank you after Virmire, I couldn´t stop what you said...Sovereign sense my hesitation... no my doubts are gone...The relationship is simbiotic ... the strenght of both and weakness of niether ...I am vision of the future...the evolution of all organic life...The implants Sovereign is too strong - it´s too late for me!

This what happened to TIM, watch and think about again...

Most interesting quotes from The Illusive man on Citadel:


The control is the means to survival...because I need you to believe...This is the way humanity must evolve...Look at the power...I took what I wanted from them, made it my own...I I will.. I know it will work... No I am in control...I know it can I just... I can´t do that comander...That´s not true...I just need to...THEY ARE TOO STRONG!

Most interesting quotes from Dr.Kenson :

[b]I will die never see Reaper´s blessing... I will never see Reaper´s arrival...No we cannot!

BTW: This is how peacefully would end our cycle if Reapers would arrived sooner .... 




                                            Ah, yes, INDOCTRINATION

Do you still believe that you can control the Reapers or merge all life in galaxy by Reaper pattern, aren´t you ?
                                                                     ...None can ...

Your arguments falls apart because Shepard is not indoctrinated, unlike the others

[Ageless Face]

Applepie_Svk wrote...
From: Shiala

Dear Commander Shepard:

I don't know if you've seen the articles, but the people of Zhu's Hope are fighting again. This time it's the Reapers instead of the geth.

I'm not sure if you remember me, but you helped me back on lllium. The Thorian is dead now. I can confirm that. But the spores in our bodies remain, and on some level, we are still connected.

This is not necessarily a bad thing. As we fight back the Reapers, we feel each other, and act with one mind, ignoring pain when the need arises. I'm sure I'm still indoctrinated. I remember Sovereign's voice in my mind when I went willingly to the Thorian as its thrall. But my connection to the people of Zhu's Hope is stronger. It drowns out the Reaper voices.

This situation is imperfect, and dangerous. Perhaps the colonists should separate, for their own safety. But with one mind, the untrained fight with the skill of veteran commandos. Our force is strong.

I have not forgotten how you helped us, how you spared me. We are leaving Feros soon, and when the time comes, we will fight with you.

Shiala 

And that help you... How? Shiala herself says in this very letter that they are still connected to the Thorian (With spores or something).

[Applepie_Svk]

SubAstris wrote...

Your arguments falls apart because Shepard is not indoctrinated, unlike the others

How do you know that ? Who said that ? BioWare clearly not and Catalyst has no reason to told you otherwise ...

[SubAstris]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Your arguments falls apart because Shepard is not indoctrinated, unlike the others

How do you know that ? Who said that ? BioWare clearly not and Catalyst has no reason to told you otherwise ...

It's not for me to provide evidence that he isn't, on the contrary...

Especially since Shepard doesn't have many of the symptoms found in the Codex entry: Headaches in normal gameplay, no, whispers in gameplay, no, feelings of being watched, no, you get the picture...

Modifié par SubAstris, 22 juillet 2012 - 05:41 .

[Geneaux486]

SubAstris wrote...

Applepie_Svk wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Your arguments falls apart because Shepard is not indoctrinated, unlike the others

How do you know that ? Who said that ? BioWare clearly not and Catalyst has no reason to told you otherwise ...

It's not for me to provide evidence that he is doesn't, on the contrary...

Precisely, the burden of proof is not on you.

[Arisugawa]

Geneaux486 wrote...

If a character were lying they would be revealed to have been lying before the game ended.  The fact that you're cautioning me against using in-game facts to validate what I'm saying is absurd.

I'm not cautioning you against using in-game facts. I'm cautioning you against using a character's dialogue as sacroscant and absolute, and thus factual beyond any measure of deception or lie of omission.

Assuming that every deception would be revealed as deception prior to the credits rolling is very dangerous in any storytelling medium, not just video games. Part of the beauty of storytelling is that often the audience simply doesn't know exactly whether or not something was a lie or the truth.

Modifié par Arisugawa, 22 juillet 2012 - 05:48 .

[Applepie_Svk]

Geneaux486 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...


It's not for me to provide evidence that he is doesn't, on the contrary...

Precisely, the burden of proof is not on you.

So you guys ****ing about IT that is cannot be true, but do it without proofs which would say in your cause, and when I ask you to give me single one proof that IT can be false you said that is not your burden to bring proof ? What the ...
Game is full of clues, hints, proofs which pointing on indoctrination and none on existence of Catalyst...



If it´s not your burden to bring proofs than also it´s not your right to disprove something without these proofs.
BioWare could long ago burst buble with name IT, but they didn´t and even said few things pointing straight to IT.

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 22 juillet 2012 - 05:50 .

[The Twilight God]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Suspicion and unbelievability are matters of opinion. Fact is that the game presents synthesis as a success, despite any fears that existed beforehand. Stated in the game.

Let's asusme the endings depict exactly what plays out and it isn't a delusion to keepp the player indoctrinated post game.

Stating that everything turns out good in the end still doesn't explain why Shepard would trust the Catalyst (who is currently trying its best to destroy every space-farring civilization) if he wasn't indoctrinated. We have to remember that he came there to destroy the reapers. The Crucible was made to destroy the reapers. And there is nobody else left to save the galaxy if the Catalyst's options turn out to just be lies to coax Shepard into commiting suicide, thus allowing them to continue unopposed.

Shepard is not a psychic. He can't see the future. Saying it all turns out well doesn't remove the problem of why he would pick those options. Why he would gamble everyone's life when he doesn't have to. I see no other explanation than Control, Synthesi and Refusal being the choice of an indoctrinated Shepard. Refusal being the most purest form of indoctrination: overt submission to the Reaper's will.

Modifié par The Twilight God, 22 juillet 2012 - 05:49 .

[Geneaux486]

I'm not cautioning you against using in-game facts. I'm cautioning you against using a character's dialogue as sacroscant and absolute, and thus factual beyond any measure of deception or lie of omission.

Assuming that every deception would be revealed as deception prior to the credits rolling is very dangerous in any storytelling medium, not just video games. Part of the beauty of storytelling is that often the audience simply doesn't know exactly whether or not something was a lie or the truth.

The problem is that these supposed deceptions are not implied, nor are they touched on by the end.  They are, for all intents and purposes, not actually part of the story.

So you guys ****ing about IT that is cannot be true, but do it without proofs which would say in your cause, and when I ask you to give me single one proof that IT can be false you said that is not your burden to bring proof ? What the ...
Game is full of clues, hints, proofs which pointing on indoctrination and none on existence of Catalyst...

The endings are presented as being real.  They play out long after Shepard's stream of conciousness has ended.  The game literally spells out for us post-credits that Shepard ended the Reaper threat.  Indoctirnation is not pursued in the story, not initiated, not carried out, nothing.  The vague curiousities and oddities that ITheorists consider proof do not point specifically to IT, and the fact that the game presents itself to us in a way that the endings are real contradicts the idea that they are evidence of IT.

Stating that everything turns out good in the end still doesn't explain why Shepard would trust the Catalyst (who is currently trying its best to destroy every space-farring civilization) if he wasn't indoctrinated.

The player doesn't have to trust the Catalyst to use the Crucible, he only has to trust the Crucible.  Furthermore, not using the device results in a loss.  Using the Crucible means having nothing to lose, and everything to gain.  Choosing destroy is no less a leap of faith than either of the other two choices.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 22 juillet 2012 - 05:57 .

[Applepie_Svk]

SubAstris wrote...

Especially since Shepard doesn't have many of the symptoms found in the Codex entry: Headaches in normal gameplay, no, whispers in gameplay, no, feelings of being watched, no, you get the picture...

Wiki:
The precise mechanics of the indoctrination effect are poorly understood. It is believed that the Reapers generate an electromagnetic field, waves of infrasound and ultrasound, or both in order to stimulate areas of a victim's brain and limbic system. The resulting effect varies depending on the intent of the Reaper: the victim may suffer headaches and hallucinations, have feelings of "being watched" or paranoia, or come to view the Reaper itself with superstitious awe. Ultimately, the Reaper gains the ability to use the victim's body to amplify its signal, manifesting as voices within the victim's mind. 

Rachni :
Oily Shadows

ME3:
- Dreams with oily shadows and dead child
- whispers in dreams
- Shepard had some headaches after nightmares 
- ventkid image pressent on Citadel´s memorial wall 
- Shepard´s stress performance is unstable (claimed by Joker) 
- Shepard loosing control over body in conversation with TIM
- Halucionation aka Catalyst
- Catalyst taking image of dead kid 

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 22 juillet 2012 - 05:59 .

[Geneaux486]

Applepie_Svk wrote...
ME3:
- Dreams with oily shadows and dead child
- whispers in dreams
- Shepard had some headaches after nightmares 
- ventkid image pressent on Citadel´s memorial wall 
- Shepard´s stress performance is unstable (claimed by Joker) 
- Shepard loosing control over body in conversation with TIM
- Halucionation aka Catalyst
- Catalyst taking image of dead kid 

The most important thing not being checked off:  A reveal that he was indoctrinated by the conclusion of the narrative.

[AresKeith]

Geneaux486 wrote...

The player doesn't have to trust the Catalyst to use the Crucible, he only has to trust the Crucible.  Furthermore, not using the device results in a loss.  Using the Crucible means having nothing to lose, and everything to gain.  Choosing destroy is no less a leap of faith than either of the other two choices.

that first statement doesn't even make sense, and sometimes a leap of faith isn't always a good thing.

[Geneaux486]

AresKeith wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

The player doesn't have to trust the Catalyst to use the Crucible, he only has to trust the Crucible.  Furthermore, not using the device results in a loss.  Using the Crucible means having nothing to lose, and everything to gain.  Choosing destroy is no less a leap of faith than either of the other two choices.

that first statement doesn't even make sense, and sometimes a leap of faith isn't always a good thing.

How does it not make sense?  Regardless of what the Catalyst says you know for a fact that your side constructed this thing and plugged it in, it's still your weapon.

[Applepie_Svk]

Geneaux486 wrote...


The most important thing not being checked off:  A reveal that he was indoctrinated by the conclusion of the narrative.

The precise mechanics of the indoctrination effect are poorly understood. 

[Arisugawa]

Geneaux486 wrote...
The problem is that these supposed deceptions are not implied, nor are they touched on by the end.  They are, for all intents and purposes, not actually part of the story.

You misunderstand me, or I am not explaining myself adequately.

It doesn't matter if deceptions are not touched upon in the end. My point is that the audience doesn't necessarily know whether or not the Catalyst is telling the truth. Regardless of what is shown, this point stands. You keep focusing on the fact that a deception must be revealed by the story's conclusion, but it doesn't have to be.

If the Catalyst states "this proves my solution will not work any longer," is this a fact or simply the believe of the character? Minutes later, his solution works exactly as intended if you refuse to use the Crucible, and the Cycle continues exactly as it would have had the Catalyst not decided to converse with Shepard.

Is this a deception? A misunderstanding of the situation? What the Catalyst believes to be true? We simply don't know, and apparently, neither does it.

Again, don't focus so much on the idea that the narrative demands that deception or misdirection must be revealed by the conclusion of the story. It doesn't. The Catalyst might be telling the truth, to the best of its understanding. It might not be. 

It is my opinion, based on how the various options of the ending can play out, that it is not telling the truth, and the evidence supports that.

[elitehunter34]

HagarIshay wrote...
So I don't understand. Shepard is in the process of indoctrination. Then all the hallucination happens, Shepard needs to make a choice, three choices of those will continue the indoctrination. S/he chooses destroy. Then what? Shepard's mind was this close to be indoctrinated. Desrtoy will be nothing more than shaking the indoctrinatioon off. If Shepard was still in the process of indoctrination, the hallucination wouldn't have happened.

Why can't Shepard hallucinate if Shepard is in the process of indoctrination?