340 réponses à ce sujet

[Big I]

"The genophage was a mistake bordering on a war crime." Says it all. Cure it.

[Argolas]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Nah. Sorry Wrex, but your species is too cray.

Have you ever met Eve?

[silverexile17s]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

"The genophage was a mistake bordering on a war crime." Says it all. Cure it.

And the krogan dropping asteroids on civilized worlds, enslaving and killing millions, isn't? Cause and effect.
Some krogan even sided with Saren and Sovergien, for MONEY. They helped Saren's plans for a paycheck.

[silverexile17s]

Argolas wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Nah. Sorry Wrex, but your species is too cray.

Have you ever met Eve?

Most females are like Eve. But the males are the ones that dominate Tuchanka, and the vast majority of males are like Wreve and Gatatog Uvenk. Wrex is a "mutation" among krogan - an abnromality of their normally viloent culture, just like how Garrus' overly laid-back attaitde and sarcastic wit are abnormal to the turians' disipline-based culture.
So yes, most krogan are like Wreve. Wrex himself says that most krogan oppose his ideals. They only followed him in ME3 because he was the krogan that restored their hope by curing the genophage. It's up to him and Eve (Bakara) to make sure the krogan don't return to their old ways.

[Bardox9]

remydat wrote...

Bardox9 wrote...

As I have said before, I cure the Genophage for Wrex, Bakara, and Grunt. But if I lived in the ME universe, as proposed by the OP, I would not. For those that think it would be a good idea listen to the speaker for Clan Weyrloc during Mordins loyalty mission in ME2. Listen to his full dialog, without using the renagade interrupt, then see if a cure is really such a good idea. You can find it on youtube if you don't want to do a playthrough. You will see the future of the Krogan without the Genophage.

Listen to Hitler speak and tell me if humans should live?  That is basically all you are saying here.   Let's pick the worse a species has to off and decide to kill billions of babies based on it.  Over the course of human history I dare say millions if not billions of people have been racists, bigots, etc.  Whole nations have been this way.  Whole nations have enslaved other people and did so for hundreds of years.  So by this logic, all of humanity is condemned forever more because of them.

Difference being that the majority of humanity does not think like hitler. The majority of humanity fought hitler till he died. and we still fight against his type of mentality today. The Krogan's majority holds the same hatreds and dreams of slaughter as the weyrloc clan speaker. He just put it into words.  Maybe I've missed a few krogan conversations in the games, but Wrex and Eve are the only one's my Shep's have ever spoken to that didn't want to blindly slaughter their way through the galaxy.

Wrex only has power because his plan during ME2 was the best hope to secure Krogan survival. With a cure it's back to whoever has the biggest gun. As for Eve, the female Krogan have very little power over the clans. Because of the Genophage, a fertile female is precious and allows the female clan some bargining power and a certain level of security. Once the genophage is cured and all females are fertile, that influence goes away and the war mongering males do what war mongers do.

If the females had more pull in Krogan culture and there was some kind of unified government then I wouldn't worry so much about a cure. At this time, with the state Tuchanka is in, nothing good can come from a cure. They band together to battle the Reapers, but after the battle once the Krogan numbers start to explode... sh^t will fly. They will eventually come around to reach for the Weyrloc dream of hunting down and slaughtering Turians, destroying Asari cultural icons, and enslaving Salarians having their eggs for desert. Not saying that would succeed in this, but they will eventually try.

Now maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the Krogan would pull together, straighten up, and fly right. But the slightest chance I'm right is too much of a risk to take. Hold on to the cure, make the Krogan believe the Genophage is cured and see what happens. If they do have the cultural renaissance and become a more productive member of galactic society and less inclined to massacring people they don't like then rebuild the shroud and sneak the cure on them. I'm fine with that. Power to ya brother. Bring us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free. Rejoice in new life. BUT if they can't (or more to the point won't) control their violent nature and try to threaten the galaxy yet again... no cure...

[PsyrenY]

silverexile17s wrote...

Most females are like Eve. But the males are the ones that dominate Tuchanka, and the vast majority of males are like Wreve and Gatatog Uvenk. Wrex is a "mutation" among krogan - an abnromality of their normally viloent culture, just like how Garrus' overly laid-back attaitde and sarcastic wit are abnormal to the turians' disipline-based culture.
So yes, most krogan are like Wreve. Wrex himself says that most krogan oppose his ideals. They only followed him in ME3 because he was the krogan that restored their hope by curing the genophage. It's up to him and Eve (Bakara) to make sure the krogan don't return to their old ways.

Considering that (a) Wrex's DNA is part of the cure and ( the cure works by triggering a mutation in the recipient, there's a good chance Wrex's condition might not be so rare post-dispersal.

In addition, Paragon Sheps have two other races (the Rachni and Geth, or just the Rachni if Destroy was chosen) that can reproduce every bit as fast as Krogan can to help keep them in check if they get uppity.

Finally, Eve plans to rally the females and keep them from being sidelined ever again. A few months of closed legs and 4x blue balls should get the Uvenks in line.

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 26 avril 2013 - 06:24 .

[avenging_teabag]

Optimystic_X wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Most females are like Eve. But the males are the ones that dominate Tuchanka, and the vast majority of males are like Wreve and Gatatog Uvenk. Wrex is a "mutation" among krogan - an abnromality of their normally viloent culture, just like how Garrus' overly laid-back attaitde and sarcastic wit are abnormal to the turians' disipline-based culture.
So yes, most krogan are like Wreve. Wrex himself says that most krogan oppose his ideals. They only followed him in ME3 because he was the krogan that restored their hope by curing the genophage. It's up to him and Eve (Bakara) to make sure the krogan don't return to their old ways.

Finally, Eve plans to rally the females and keep them from being sidelined ever again. A few months of closed legs and 4x blue balls should get the Uvenks in line.

I love people who believe that. Such wide-eyed naivete, it's cute.

The reality is, once the genophage is cured, female clans lose their trump card – fertile females stop being a rare commodity, ergo they have no political leverage anymore, and it’s back to whoever holds the biggest stick. As for "Well, female Krogan might just refuse to have babies then, problem solved!" delusion, first, female Krogan are not some hivemind who all think the same – there are plenty of traditionalists among them, plenty of them will want to restore their clans to their former glory (as they understand it). And all it  will take is for one female – exactly one – to tell Bakara to shove it, for whatever reason, and start laying eggs in earnest (or however they procreate) – and voila! We have uncontrolled breeding explosion on our hands, because seeing that, the other clans will start doing the same, for they will know that if their neighbors do that, they're preparing for conquest.

Besides, do you think there won’t be outright rape and forced breeding in case some clan leaders want babies hard enough and are denied? Think again.

Modifié par avenging_teabag, 26 avril 2013 - 10:08 .

[PsyrenY]

avenging_teabag wrote...

I love people who believe that. Such wide-eyed naivete, it's cute.

No, what's cute is people who ignore the 66% of a post they have no answer to and try to overturn an argument with the remaining third.

Objectivity wrote...
The reality is, once the genophage is cured, female clans lose their trump card – fertile females stop being a rare commodity, ergo they have no political leverage anymore, and it’s back to whoever holds the biggest stick.

Rarity is not the issue if they're empowered. Fertile or not, with Eve leading them, they won't let themselves be run roughshod over again. Blue-collar workers had no political leverage either until unions were invented. 

To borrow Wrex's terminology, the females still have to "pop them out." And this time there will be (a) large clans (like Urdnot) countering the expansionist ones, ( female clans doing the same and © the other factors I mentioned in my post that you have no counter to.

[KaiserShep]

I cured the genophage in my canon FemShep playthrough. I wasn't going to betray Wrex, Eve/Bakara and Mordin. When Wrex says "You've been a champion of the Krogan people, a friend of Clan Urdnot, and a sister to me" there was no way that I could go renegade on this. The cockamamie threat of them going apesquat decades or centuries from now is no more a concern than humanity developing another spec ops group that becomes the new equivalent of Cerberus. Heck, other than the council's inability to accept the truth, it's a group of human beings that turn out to be the biggest monkey wrench in the plans to save the galaxy in the end, but humans get a pass because we're human, but the Krogan don't because of an issue that's hundreds of years old, aside from being pawns employed by other scum of the galaxy? Awesome. 

Modifié par KaiserShep, 26 avril 2013 - 04:50 .

[BronzTrooper]

With Wrex in charge? Hell yeah. I just can't betray him.

With Wreav in charge and Bakara keeping in check? Well... they deserve a cure.

With Wreav in charge and Bakara dead? No. Wreav can't be trusted and he always was an a-hole.

[KaiserShep]

And Wreav makes you feel like crap for helping the Krogan too, claiming that he cured the genophage lol. It was pretty satisfying when Kalros killed him in ME3. 

Modifié par KaiserShep, 26 avril 2013 - 08:04 .

[BronzTrooper]

silverexile17s wrote...

LookingGlass93 wrote...

"The genophage was a mistake bordering on a war crime." Says it all. Cure it.

And the krogan dropping asteroids on civilized worlds, enslaving and killing millions, isn't? Cause and effect.
Some krogan even sided with Saren and Sovergien, for MONEY. They helped Saren's plans for a paycheck.

As a result of the Genophage.  Wrex said it himself: the krogan have no interest in staying in their home system to try and help breed simply because they want to fight.  They don't care who or what they are fighting for as long as they get to fight.  Besides, don't you think that if Zaeed was paid enough to join Saren that he wouldn't?  Plus, many of the Krogan fighting under Saren were clones so they had virtually no connection to their people (similar to Grunt when you first open his tank).  The Krogan in general are always eager for a fight to determine who is the strongest (clan leaders are chosen in this way I think).  It is part of their culture.  Also, if you listen to the recording of the Genophage dispersal, the Salarian government didn't originally approve of using the Genophage and many Turians thought it was wrong.  But, as usual, history was written to be one-sided.  The Genophage dispersal is similar to the Quarians trying to destroy the Geth andbbeing exiled from Rannoch.  The Quarians never mentioned that many of their own opposed the killing of the Geth just like the Turians and Salarians didn't mention that many of their own opposed the use of the Genophage.

[avenging_teabag]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Rarity is not the issue if they're empowered. Fertile or not, with Eve leading them, they won't let themselves be run roughshod over again. Blue-collar workers had no political leverage either until unions were invented. 

To borrow Wrex's terminology, the females still have to "pop them out." And this time there will be (a) large clans (like Urdnot) countering the expansionist ones, ( female clans doing the same and © the other factors I mentioned in my post that you have no counter to.

But the source of their power is the genophage (same as Wrex'), once that is gone, they will have nothing in particlular to lean on. And again, why do you presume that the krogan females all think alike? Do human females, for instance? There would be a solid number of them disagreeing with Bakara, for million reasons - political, familial, personal (I love my husband - clan leader X - and he wants children). Or they could be intimidated, or coerced, or forced, or bribed. All it takes is a dozen females in one clan to start breeding, and there's a chain reaction. And what about those Krogan who happen to be off-world? How can Bakara possibly control them? 

The fact is, with Genophage gone, the progressists will have nothing to base their power on. Their ideas are unpopular. Wrex has vocal and numerous opposition within his own clan, for Christ's sake.

I ignored the rest of your post, btw, because it didn't make much sense. Wrex's "condition" is not genetic - it's not a condition at all, Bakara just used the word "mutant" as a metaphor to explain how rare his mindset is among the Krogan. So disseminating his DNA or whatever won't accomplish anything, and in any case spare me discussing the biological underpinnings of a cure that works as a magical sparkling dust.

And countering Krogan with the Rachni is like countering bubonic plague with anthrax.

[PsyrenY]

avenging_teabag wrote...

But the source of their power is the genophage (same as Wrex'), once that is gone, they will have nothing in particlular to lean on. And again, why do you presume that the krogan females all think alike? Do human females, for instance? There would be a solid number of them disagreeing with Bakara, for million reasons - political, familial, personal (I love my husband - clan leader X - and he wants children). Or they could be intimidated, or coerced, or forced, or bribed. All it takes is a dozen females in one clan to start breeding, and there's a chain reaction. And what about those Krogan who happen to be off-world? How can Bakara possibly control them?

The last Rebellions were a problem for the galaxy because the krogan were united in their desire to go to war. That is no longer the case. As things currently stand, even if there are a bunch of clans that want to wage war again, there are also a bunch (including the largest one) that don't. 

The good krogan - along with the rachni, geth, humans, turians, salarians, even the Reapers if you took Control or Synthesis - will keep the bad krogan (if any) in check.

avenging_teabag wrote...

The fact is, with Genophage gone, the progressists will have nothing to base their power on. Their ideas are unpopular. Wrex has vocal and numerous opposition within his own clan, for Christ's sake.

Codex disagrees with you. The majority respect and follow him even AFTER he cured it. 

Krogan as a whole are honorable. You've got some Wreavs and Uvenks in the bunch but the majority know that Wrex is their savior and that going back to the old ways will just result in another genophage.

avenging_teabag wrote...

I ignored the rest of your post, btw, because it didn't make much sense. Wrex's "condition" is not genetic - it's not a condition at all, Bakara just used the word "mutant" as a metaphor to explain how rare his mindset is among the Krogan.

Citation? How do you know his very unique mindset has no basis in biology? I saw no reason not to take that statement literally.

If you're wrong, you committed a monstrous act for no reason. If I'm wrong, I have all kinds of failsafes to keep the evil krogan in check.

avenging_teabag wrote...

So disseminating his DNA or whatever won't accomplish anything, and in any case spare me discussing the biological underpinnings of a cure that works as a magical sparkling dust.

If by "magic" you mean "phenomena not fully explained" then look around, that's everywhere.

avenging_teabag wrote...
And countering Krogan with the Rachni is like countering bubonic plague with anthrax.

More like countering cancer with radiation, or a virus. Which, by the way, happens.

[avenging_teabag]

Optimystic_X wrote...

The good krogan - along with the rachni, geth, humans, turians, salarians, even the Reapers if you took Control or Synthesis - will keep the bad krogan (if any) in check.

And if they don't, the galaxy already decimated by the reapers would be torn apart by the Glorious People's Army of Tuchanka. Or Krogan would would overpopulate and blow up their homeworld. Again. The risk is unacceptable.

Optimystic_X wrote...
Codex disagrees with you. The majority respect and follow him even AFTER he cured it. 

That's metagaming. At the moment you make the decision you have no way of knowing the future.

Optimystic_X wrote...Krogan as a whole are honorable. You've got some Wreavs and Uvenks in the bunch but the majority know that Wrex is their savior and that going back to the old ways will just result in another genophage.

No, Kroran as a whole waged a few wars of annihilation, destroyed their own planet in nuclear holocausts several times over and widely thought about (including by the Krogan themselves) as unruly, bloodthirsty and barbaric. Any particular Krogan alone is a bro, but put them together in large numbers, and they become a deadly mob. Kinda like humans, only ten times worse.

Optimystic_X wrote...
Citation? How do you know his very unique mindset has no basis in biology? 

How do you know it does? More importantly, how does Bakara know? Is she his doctor? Are Krogan known for their cutting edge genetic research? I'm sorry, dispensing a mindset via sparkling dust is fairytales stuff. Bakara was being metaphoric.

Optimystic_X wrote...If you're wrong, you committed a monstrous act for no reason. If I'm wrong, I have all kinds of failsafes to keep the evil krogan in check.

Oh, there are plenty of reasons. The whole known Krogan history is basically one huge glaring reason, every Krogan I know is a reason, save for two. Those two (or one, depending on Bakara's fate) are not nearly enough to risk the future galactic safety on, not in anything that even remotely resembles a real world.

I've had enough experrience with the Krogan to know that as a species, they're not nice, or kind, or particularly honorable. Noble savages sound good in stories, in reality they bite you in the a** the second you turn away. The only case I can even entertain the thought is if I pick control in the end, but my Shepard has no intention of doing that. He (assuming he's me) didn't do everything he did to become a reaper as his retirement plan.

Modifié par avenging_teabag, 26 avril 2013 - 10:46 .

[Bardox9]

The Krogan Rebellion was the result of a unified desire to go to war??? The rebellions were the result of a population explosion and the Krogan dislike for the word "no". Too many Krogan being born and not enough resources to go around. So the krogan spread out and colonized world already inhabited. When the council tried to tell them they couldn't do that, the krogan ambassador, stormed out and dared the council to take their worlds back. Thus began the 300 year war we call the Krogan rebellions which lead to the creation and use of the Genophage. A weapon of last resort that was used when the krogan were about to sack Palaven.

Curious... Wrex is a Vanguard... does using his DNA in the cure result in a larger number of biotic Krogan children?

Modifié par Bardox9, 28 avril 2013 - 01:17 .

[remydat]

Bardox9 wrote...

Difference being that the majority of humanity does not think like hitler. The majority of humanity fought hitler till he died. and we still fight against his type of mentality today. The Krogan's majority holds the same hatreds and dreams of slaughter as the weyrloc clan speaker. He just put it into words.  Maybe I've missed a few krogan conversations in the games, but Wrex and Eve are the only one's my Shep's have ever spoken to that didn't want to blindly slaughter their way through the galaxy.

Wrex only has power because his plan during ME2 was the best hope to secure Krogan survival. With a cure it's back to whoever has the biggest gun. As for Eve, the female Krogan have very little power over the clans. Because of the Genophage, a fertile female is precious and allows the female clan some bargining power and a certain level of security. Once the genophage is cured and all females are fertile, that influence goes away and the war mongering males do what war mongers do.

If the females had more pull in Krogan culture and there was some kind of unified government then I wouldn't worry so much about a cure. At this time, with the state Tuchanka is in, nothing good can come from a cure. They band together to battle the Reapers, but after the battle once the Krogan numbers start to explode... sh^t will fly. They will eventually come around to reach for the Weyrloc dream of hunting down and slaughtering Turians, destroying Asari cultural icons, and enslaving Salarians having their eggs for desert. Not saying that would succeed in this, but they will eventually try.

Now maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the Krogan would pull together, straighten up, and fly right. But the slightest chance I'm right is too much of a risk to take. Hold on to the cure, make the Krogan believe the Genophage is cured and see what happens. If they do have the cultural renaissance and become a more productive member of galactic society and less inclined to massacring people they don't like then rebuild the shroud and sneak the cure on them. I'm fine with that. Power to ya brother. Bring us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free. Rejoice in new life. BUT if they can't (or more to the point won't) control their violent nature and try to threaten the galaxy yet again... no cure...

The majority of humans supported slavery for most of our CIVILIZED existence.  For thousands of years in fact.  Too bad there wasn't a genophage around back then.

Pretty sure Char (you know the dude that writes poems) just wanted to settle down with his Asari wife.  Pretty sure Patriarch just wanted to be relevant again.  Pretty sure Eve said the females are tired of their kids being forced to wage war.  She said Civil War will ensure if people like Wreav try.  Why are you condemning females to more stillborn children because of what you think the men will do?  Are they not allowed to decide what happens to their bodies?  Are they not allowed to decide their own future.

And sure, hold on to the cure and then when the Krogan find out you just used them as canon fodder for the Turians, I am sure that will go over well.  Look, just exterminate them and get it over with because continually using them as your war animals who you tricked into killing themselves for you and the Turians is just cowardly.  At least have the decency to be honest with them.

Modifié par remydat, 28 avril 2013 - 05:13 .

[Morlath]

The Krogan society is based upon a pack-like structure with the Alpha in charge. In ME2 Wrex is proving himself that he is a forward-thinking Krogan who wants to lead his people into a new era of life and not just stay as a battle obsessed species. He has already began to bring the people round to his side and change the way the Krogan society behave and with the curing of the Genophage this would cement his place as the leader of his people and not just another warlord looking for control.

Given the right political structure at the top (Wrex and Eve) you have a warrior species who are being educated - by one of their own - to live and interact with other species without looking to conquer the galaxy. Over time the Krogan society will regulate its own birth cycles to fit into this new era and as long as the focus of the leadership remains along the same ideology as Wrex and Eve then the Krogan people should be given a chance. On the other hand, if it's Wreave in charge or a similar minded Krogan, then the species is doomed due to the overriding need for vengeance.

Of course something could go wrong and something most likely WILL go wrong but you can't make a decision on potential bumps in the road if the route itself looks to be an eventual good one.

[Killdren88]

Yes. No one has the right to inflict that upon the Krogan. They are sentient beings. Not mindless animals that we can change because it suits us better.

[Bardox9]

I don't begrudge thae Salarians for creating the Genophage nor the Turians for using it. Keep in mind the Genophage was used to end a war started by the Krogan that was otherwise a lost cause. I do think the Salarians should have lost their council seat for their reckless behavior. The Rachni wars were their fault and by extension the krogan rebellions which lead to the need for such a biological weapon. But that is another discussion.

In this discussion I am seeing those supporting a cure try to use human behavior on Krogan culture to justify their argument. Surely the Krogan will have learned from their past and not seek revenge because Wrex and Eve will be able to use reason and logic to stop every single clan from taking advantage of the other races weakened state and going on the warpath. The Krogan have had 1,400 years to become more productive members of galactic society, but to this day the modern Krogan's only contribution is a talent for waging galactic war.

The Clans define themselves by combat. It's how Urdnot became dominant. Making alliances and "destroying" any clan that opposed them. It wasn't technological advancement, political prowess, or financial achievement. It was military conquest. it's how their culture works. That doesn't change over night and with their insane birth rate made them all but invicible during the Rachni war and the Rebellions. Reducing (not destroying but reducing) that birth rate was the only thing that stopped a 300 year long war.

The Krogan numbers will explode again. They will expand again. They will run out of resources rapidly again. They will not stop when they run out of unclaimed planets because "I am stronger in every way." When they run into a confrontation, they don't talk through it. They just start shooting. Whoever survives was "right".

Modifié par Bardox9, 02 mai 2013 - 07:28 .

[Goneaviking]

elegolas1 wrote...

Imagine you live in the mass effect universe and you are given the choice to cure the genophage. Would you do it?

Yes. It's the moral thing to do. Destroying, or withholding the cure makes you responsible for it and all the trauma that flows from it.

The genophage did more damage to the Krogan culture than the uplift did, it warped the krogan in unnatural ways and destroyed any incentive they had to build a better future by, for all intents and purposes, cutting them off from that future.

If children are the future, what reason do the Krogan have to consider the long term consequences of their actions?

[Morlath]

Bardox9 wrote...

I don't begrudge thae Salarians for creating the Genophage nor the Turians for using it. Keep in mind the Genophage was used to end a war started by the Krogan that was otherwise a lost cause. I do think the Salarians should have lost their council seat for their reckless behavior. The Rachni wars were their fault and by extension the krogan rebellions which lead to the need for such a biological weapon. But that is another discussion.

In this discussion I am seeing those supporting a cure try to use human behavior on Krogan culture to justify their argument. Surely the Krogan will have learned from their past and not seek revenge because Wrex and Eve will be able to use reason and logic to stop every single clan from taking advantage of the other races weakened state and going on the warpath. The Krogan have had 1,400 years to become more productive members of galactic society, but to this day the modern Krogan's only contribution is a talent for waging galactic war.

The Clans define themselves by combat. It's how Urdnot became dominant. Making alliances and "destroying" any clan that opposed them. It wasn't technological advancement, political prowess, or financial achievement. It was military conquest. it's how their culture works. That doesn't change over night and with their insane birth rate made them all but invicible during the Rachni war and the Rebellions. Reducing (not destroying but reducing) that birth rate was the only thing that stopped a 300 year long war.

The Krogan numbers will explode again. They will expand again. They will run out of resources rapidly again. They will not stop when they run out of unclaimed planets because "I am stronger in every way." When they run into a confrontation, they don't talk through it. They just start shooting. Whoever survives was "right".

Good points. However I think you're missing out on some specifics.

The Krogans were uplifted far beyond their time, a warrior race that hadn't yet fully learned control (Kligons without their honour code?). The species is thrusted into a technological age that their overal maturity is not prepared for and then they find themselves hit by the Genophage that is going to slowly destroy their species.

They're a biologically agreesive species that feel betrayed by the entire galatic community. Without any helpful Salarians there is no feasible cure in the coming future and the women are getting emotionally hurt by each stillbirth. At no point since their uplifting has the Krogan race been in a position to change their identity except beneath the leadership of Wrex and Eve.

For me it comes down to two simple points. All evil needs is for good men to do nothing and that Wrex and Eve are showing that the species deserves, at the very least, the benefit of the doubt in wanting to be something more than mercs and cannon fodder.

[P. Domi]

Any Krogan, with the right leadership, with children and family ties would probably re-think about the need of constant war. By bringing the females back to a leading position and having the males caring about other things rather than just war, usch as reconstruction and family, is setting the foundations for a civilisation rebuildin. This exactly what they show in the vignettes.

[Bardox9]

Morlath wrote...

Good points. However I think you're missing out on some specifics.

The Krogans were uplifted far beyond their time, a warrior race that hadn't yet fully learned control (Kligons without their honour code?). The species is thrusted into a technological age that their overal maturity is not prepared for and then they find themselves hit by the Genophage that is going to slowly destroy their species.

They're a biologically agreesive species that feel betrayed by the entire galatic community. Without any helpful Salarians there is no feasible cure in the coming future and the women are getting emotionally hurt by each stillbirth. At no point since their uplifting has the Krogan race been in a position to change their identity except beneath the leadership of Wrex and Eve.

For me it comes down to two simple points. All evil needs is for good men to do nothing and that Wrex and Eve are showing that the species deserves, at the very least, the benefit of the doubt in wanting to be something more than mercs and cannon fodder.

In the ME universe the Krogan were uplifted about 2,000 years ago. In that time there has been little to no effort  to control their violent nature. If self preservation wasn't enough to get them to overcome their blood lust, I can't imagine that returning their greatest weapon (I.E. their high birth rate) would do it either.

pablodomi wrote...

Any Krogan, with the right leadership, with children and family ties would probably re-think about the need of constant war. By bringing the females back to a leading position and having the males caring about other things rather than just war, usch as reconstruction and family, is setting the foundations for a civilisation rebuildin. This exactly what they show in the vignettes.

Again this assumes a human response. Nothing in Krogan history suggests they would re-think anything. Least of all their desire for constant war. Vitcory in blood is how they advance themselves within their culture.

At the end of ME3 the Asari, the Turians, the Salarians,  Humans, Elcor, Volus, Hanar, etc have all been reduced to a faction of their ME2 sizes. The Batarians are all but extinct. With a cure the Krogan will vastly out number all of them in a couple of decades. When they want something and the Council races (what's left of them) try to tell them no... what do you think the Krogan response will be "Very well. Your position is completely understandable." OR will it be "You think that was a request? We outnumber all of you 4 to 1. Just try to stop us."

[Morlath]

Bardox9 wrote...


In the ME universe the Krogan were uplifted about 2,000 years ago. In that time there has been little to no effort to control their violent nature. If self preservation wasn't enough to get them to overcome their blood lust, I can't imagine that returning their greatest weapon (I.E. their high birth rate) would do it either.

Which is why I said:

"They're a biologically agreesive species that feel betrayed by the entire galatic community. Without any helpful Salarians there is no feasible cure in the coming future and the women are getting emotionally hurt by each stillbirth. At no point since their uplifting has the Krogan race been in a position to change their identity except beneath the leadership of Wrex and Eve.They're a biologically agreesive species that feel betrayed by the entire galatic community. Without any helpful Salarians there is no feasible cure in the coming future and the women are getting emotionally hurt by each stillbirth. At no point since their uplifting has the Krogan race been in a position to change their identity except beneath the leadership of Wrex and Eve."

The species hasn't had a chance to grow because of the entire cloud (no pun intended) of the Genophage hanging over them. In their eyes what's the point of trying to be more than their stereotypes of they're going extinct anyway? Wrex says this in ME1 and suggests that it's a general attitude by the newer generations.