340 réponses à ce sujet

[WNxPowder]

I would, we know that the genophage was created after the defeat of the krogan, with Wrex and Eve spear heading the united krogan, along with the unifying pride that comes along after defeating the reapers, I think even if the Krogan became hostile again, it wouldnt be all the krogan fighting a galactic war,the few that did would be easily suppressed

[Xilizhra]

1. They die for crimes they did not commit. That is all I need to know. And their parents are not the ones who rebelled. They are the Krogan babies that survived. Wreav and Eve did not rebell. They are still being punished for crimes they did not commit.

It's not about punishment, it's about biology. Krogan, unless their population is deliberately controlled, by themselves or otherwise, cannot live off of Tuchanka; they reproduce too fast unchecked.

2. It is clear the large majority of the Asari cultural achievements came from the Protheans. It is stated by Shep and Javik when you take them on the Thessia mission. The Asari hid the beacon used it's knowledge to advance themselves and their culture and then spread out to the rest of the galaxy. I am not suggesting they did not add to it but let's be real, the game makes it pretty clear the Asari stature in the galaxy is largely the result of all the knowledge they learned and hid from the Prothean beacon.

That's silly on several levels. There were early agriculture and mathematical boosts, yes, but that's still not nearly enough technological ability to read anything from the beacon. In any case, you're only talking about technology. Cultural achievements for the asari are completely their own doing. And I don't buy it being "largely" the result of the beacon either, as it's completely supposition by Javik how much was actually gained from it (if you recall, he still isn't totally up on how communication technology works in this cycle).

3. Come on, whether it was added or not, you don't just proceed to war. They are militaristic a**holes who used war as a first option.

It's possible that the captain who fired the first shot was, but after that, it just escalated out of the direct control of both sides. However, said captain was legally obligated to stop the opening of any new mass relays by any means necessary, and communication wouldn't work because of translator issues.

4. Mordin said it was like giving nuclear weapons to cave men. It was his analogy. The fact the Krogan already had nuclear weapons and destroyed their planet is proof that they were not ready. Just because a culture advances enough technologically to develop nuclear weapons does not mean they have advanced enough morally or socially to properly wield those weapons. That is the point Mordin was making. Morally the Krogan were literally more like cave men but they simply were smart enough apprently to have developed nuclear weapons. However because their technological capabilities advanced far faster than their moral capabilities they destroyed their planet. And the Salarians knew all of this and still uplifted them.

I think krogan were morally worse than cavemen, really. However, the salarians seemed to recognize that it would have repercussions, but did so because there was really no other choice than to allow the rachni to overrun the galaxy.

[remydat]

Xilizhra

1.  It is easy for you to say when you are not the won dealing with billions of stilborn babies.  I tend to be a let a women decide what happens to her own body kind of guy whether I agree with that decision or not.  I don not why we just assume Krogan women want to have babies all their lives.  Human women can have like 30 kids in their lifetime.  Most only have one or 2.  I think they have better things to do than keep their legs open and spit out babies.

2.  It's not just Javik.  Shep gets pissed about it two.  In fact just about every squad mate does.  Even Kaiden is like WTF Liara, lol  - Come on the Asari's empire was built on the Prothean knowledge.  You said like Liara trying to deny the obvious but even see eventually admits the true.  Having said that, yes fine, they still have they own culture they passed on as well so not everything is stolen from the Protheans.

3.   - You see this dude talking about conquering earth.  Seems he can communicate pretty fine.  They were a**holes plain and simply.  They could have found a way to deal with the situation peacefully.  Also I had forgotten how the Salarian who used 30 civilians as bait to flush out his target was rewarded by becoming the first Spectre, lol.  Very noble lot this Council Races.

4.  Um I think if you gave warring human factions nuclear weapons at any point before say the 20 century, they would have nuked this planet to hell.  And if they could create the genophage for the Krogan, they could have created a bio weapon for the Rachni.  So that is just an excuse for them taking short cuts to save their own skin.

In any event I don't see how the Council Races are some pargons of virtue.  All of these races have sinned but only one continually has to pay for their crimes.

[Xilizhra]

1. It is easy for you to say when you are not the won dealing with billions of stilborn babies. I tend to be a let a women decide what happens to her own body kind of guy whether I agree with that decision or not. I don not why we just assume Krogan women want to have babies all their lives. Human women can have like 30 kids in their lifetime. Most only have one or 2. I think they have better things to do than keep their legs open and spit out babies.

I think we assume this because it's exactly what they did on Tuchanka naturally and continued doing during the wave of krogan colonization. It'd involve a major behavioral shift for this to change now.

2. It's not just Javik. Shep gets pissed about it two. In fact just about every squad mate does. Even Kaiden is like WTF Liara, lol - Come on the Asari's empire was built on the Prothean knowledge. You said like Liara trying to deny the obvious but even see eventually admits the true. Having said that, yes fine, they still have they own culture they passed on as well so not everything is stolen from the Protheans.

My Shepard was never pissed about this at all. And all we have is conjecture about the mount of tech the tiny matriarchal cabal actually extracted from the beacon.

3. - You see this dude talking about conquering earth. Seems he can communicate pretty fine. They were a**holes plain and simply. They could have found a way to deal with the situation peacefully. Also I had forgotten how the Salarian who used 30 civilians as bait to flush out his target was rewarded by becoming the first Spectre, lol. Very noble lot this Council Races.

That was during the war itself. True, there are plenty of unpleasant people on both sides, but it doesn't tar the entire species.

4. Um I think if you gave warring human factions nuclear weapons at any point before say the 20 century, they would have nuked this planet to hell. And if they could create the genophage for the Krogan, they could have created a bio weapon for the Rachni. So that is just an excuse for them taking short cuts to save their own skin.

Against the krogan, they had the turians to do a lot of the actual military engagements; against the rachni, neither the asari nor the salarians had enough sheer force to stand up to them for long, certainly not long enough to create some kind of rachni genophage.

[remydat]

Xilizhra

They had a lot of babies on Tuchanka because it is a hostile environment.  They had a lot of babies when the Salarians uplifted them because they were used as canon fodder in the Rachni wars.  Again, the Salarians are just as much a part of the problem.  Show me where they tried to check Krogan birth rates prior to the Rebellions.  They bred them to be their warrior slaves.  Let's not pretend otherwise.  The bahavioral shift required is as much the galaxy's to make as the krogan.  Even flat out said females will refuse to have children if it means they will be used in Wreav's war so the bahavioural shift already happened.  It happened when instead of teaching them how to be responsible, the Salarians bred them for war and then had billions of babies killed when the war was over.

Conjecture that comes from the game.  You are free to not consider it, I am free to do the opposite.  I consider the evidence compelling.  If they didn't learn a lot from it then why hide it?

Umm, the Turians are a**holes.  They stared a war with humans instead of communicating, they infected the entire Krogan population with the genophage despite protests from Salarians and Turians.  They are a military culture that will eradicate you if they can.

Based on what?  That is just your speculation.  They were scared and too chicken **** to deal with a problem themselves and so they used the Krogan as a warrior caste where they were perfectly fine with their birth rates when it allowed the Salarians to live.  

In any event like you said all races have their good and bad.  The difference is the Krogan are made to pay with billions of dead babies for their bad.  Their bad that the Salarians knew from the start were going to be a problem but didn't care as long as it saved their own skin.  Why do the bad deads of others get excused while the Krogan are meant to pay for their ancestros forevers?  It makes no sense.  

Modifié par remydat, 19 avril 2013 - 11:17 .

[Xilizhra]

They had a lot of babies on Tuchanka because it is a hostile environment. They had a lot of babies when the Salarians uplifted them because they were used as canon fodder in the Rachni wars. Again, the Salarians are just as much a part of the problem. Show me where they tried to check Krogan birth rates prior to the Rebellions. They bred them to be their warrior slaves. Let's not pretend otherwise. The bahavioral shift required is as much the galaxy's to make as the krogan. Even flat out said females will refuse to have children if it means they will be used in Wreav's war so the bahavioural shift already happened. It happened when instead of teaching them how to be responsible, the Salarians bred them for war and then had billions of babies killed when the war was over.

Eve did not say that they'd refuse to have babies for any of Wrex's imperial ambitions, note. This could be the case, and remember that I do cure the genophage anyway, so it's worth a chance... but I'm very glad I have the Reapers standing by, just in case.

Conjecture that comes from the game. You are free to not consider it, I am free to do the opposite. I consider the evidence compelling. If they didn't learn a lot from it then why hide it?

Why not? It could still be an advantage.

Umm, the Turians are a**holes. They stared a war with humans instead of communicating, they infected the entire Krogan population with the genophage despite protests from Salarians and Turians. They are a military culture that will eradicate you if they can.

It wasn't quite a "war," at least not by turian standards. And remember, "genophage or genocide."

Based on what? That is just your speculation. They were scared and too chicken **** to deal with a problem themselves and so they used the Krogan as a warrior caste where they were perfectly fine with their birth rates when it allowed the Salarians to live.

So you're saying they could have won conventionally?

In any event like you said all races have their good and bad. The difference is the Krogan are made to pay with billions of dead babies for their bad. Their bad that the Salarians knew from the start were going to be a problem but didn't care as long as it saved their own skin. Why do the bad deads of others get excused while the Krogan are meant to pay for their ancestros forevers? It makes no sense.

Recall that it also has to do with the krogan's current actions up to the present day.

[Argolas]

One does have to admit that the krogan used terrible means of war during the rebellions, like asteroid drops, and many show no sign of regret, openly admitting that they would do the same again, given the chance. It's not only Wreav, you also hear talk like that from random krogan during ME2. In fact, sensible krogan are rather few- until the females step up.

As I said: Cure the genophage, but spirits, don't allow them to have warships until they have proven that they can deal with their birth rate themselves.

[SmokePants]

SergeantSnookie wrote...

Yeah. I agree with Padok Wiks: "We should let evolution decide who lives or dies, not politics."

Although, I'd have a few second thoughts if Eve was dead and Wreav was in charge.

Evolution gave the other species the ability to impose the genophage on the Krogan. And evolution left the Krogan ill-equppied to cure it themselves. 

I kind of hate how black-and-white the issue became by ME3. They were painting it as leading to the Krogan's extinction as some form of genocide, when it is designed to maintain the Korgan population at a level that doesn't threaten the other species. It is entirely glossed over that the only other option was wiping out the Krogan outright after they started using mass drivers to turn asteroids into projectiles.

The genophage dilemma was dumbed-down to fit in it's small corner of ME3 when it really should have gotten its own game to do it justice.

Modifié par SmokePants, 19 avril 2013 - 11:40 .

[Argolas]

The genophage dilemma wasn't dumbed down at at all. Wrex won't live forever. If Wreav is in charge, it's even more clear.

The genophage itself was never seriously branded immoral. The modification project was, and there is a reason for that.

[AlexMBrennan]

but I'm very glad I have the Reapers standing by, just in case.

Yeah, because the ground-bound krogan would be such a hassle to bombard with our fleets alone.

[SmokePants]

Argolas wrote...

The genophage dilemma wasn't dumbed down at at all. Wrex won't live forever. If Wreav is in charge, it's even more clear.

The genophage itself was never seriously branded immoral. The modification project was, and there is a reason for that.

The modification project was a part of the maintanence cycle of the original genophage. They had been monitoring birthrates since the initial deployment. It was automatic that they would attempt to correct any rise or fall of Krogan birthrates. I don't see how they're two separate issues.

"Dumbed Down" was a poor choice of words. I think they were largely successful and I did appreciate the way the fake cure was handled. I just think there was untapped potential and a lot of the grayness that was intended was drowned out by some of the more ham-handed emotional manipulations of the characters and dialogue.

On my first playthrough, I did a non-import and I cured the genophage despite Wreav saying he was going to slaughter everyone after the war. With the Reaper war, I almost felt like I was forced to. And Wreav isn't the only consideration -- faking the cure is also a betrayal of Eve and Mordin. (I know Mordin can be talked down, but I didn't have that foreknowledge). The data they showed at PAX East said that most people cured the Genophage, while Wrex wasn't alive in most people's game.

[Argolas]

I never quite understood how it was a problem that Krogan birth rates were recovering. In fact, I would have found it the perfect time to synthesize and release a cure.

The krogan are demilitarized. They have no warships. No matter how many Krogan there are, they can't invade anything while stuck on their homeworld. If they can't deal with their birth rates themselves, they are the ones who suffer from it. There is a chance that by time, they will learn that their warlords are the ones who make them suffer, maybe they will give more power to their females. That is the only way the krogan can truly recover.

As long as the genophage is there, that is not happening. They will blame the turians and salarians for their suffering because of the countless stillbirths (which are a terrible thing indeed). The genophage was the right solution at the time when the galaxy was on the edge of defeat. Now that the krogan are contained, they should be left to rule themselves, for better or for worse.

Modifié par Argolas, 20 avril 2013 - 02:00 .

[remydat]

Xilizhra wrote...

Eve did not say that they'd refuse to have babies for any of Wrex's imperial ambitions, note. This could be the case, and remember that I do cure the genophage anyway, so it's worth a chance... but I'm very glad I have the Reapers standing by, just in case.

Why not? It could still be an advantage.

It wasn't quite a "war," at least not by turian standards. And remember, "genophage or genocide."

So you're saying they could have won conventionally?

Recall that it also has to do with the krogan's current actions up to the present day.

What imperial ambitions.  Wrex flat out says the Krogan have to change.  Eve goes so far to call him a mutant because of his views.  She has no reason to say she will refuse to have children because Wrex flat out says he is not going to fall victim to the same stupidity that his ancestors did.  She mentions it with Wreav because Wrev is the imperial idiot.

Umm, because you go around telling people to share their beacons.  You can't hide sh*t and the basically try and make it illegal for others to do the same.

First Contact War.  That is what it is called.  Don't need to play word games.

I don't know.  I do know I never heard about them trying to use bio-weapons against them.  I guess we will never know because they decided to use the Krogan as cannon fodder instead.

Current actions that are also in part the result of the genophage.  Mordin and Eve make clear the genophage only made their aggressive nature worse.  

[Xilizhra]

What imperial ambitions. Wrex flat out says the Krogan have to change. Eve goes so far to call him a mutant because of his views. She has no reason to say she will refuse to have children because Wrex flat out says he is not going to fall victim to the same stupidity that his ancestors did. She mentions it with Wreav because Wrev is the imperial idiot.

Wrex outright says he wants a new Krogan Empire. He said he'd ask first, but that doesn't mean he'd take "no" for an answer.

Umm, because you go around telling people to share their beacons. You can't hide sh*t and the basically try and make it illegal for others to do the same.

And the vast, vast majority of the asari do not.

First Contact War. That is what it is called. Don't need to play word games.

That's what humans call it. Turians call it the Relay 314 Incident. No word on what other species call it, but turians have had longer to be integrated and are more populous than humans, so I suspect that's more common.

I don't know. I do know I never heard about them trying to use bio-weapons against them. I guess we will never know because they decided to use the Krogan as cannon fodder instead.

There's regrettably little recorded history here, true.

Current actions that are also in part the result of the genophage. Mordin and Eve make clear the genophage only made their aggressive nature worse.

Possibly, but there was really no other option that left the krogan alive.

[Spartas Husky]

You know guys I never tried it until this play through. When in the truck the first time Bakra asks me if something is wrong. And I decided to say what the salarian dalatrass told me. I was interrupted bla bla bla

IN the second attempt I kept the information to myself. I trust bakara above wrex funny enough, but something sparked after listening to wrrex over and over and over.

When you get to the shroud however. YOu can tell mordin that it isn't malfuction is sabotage. He says he should have known but then mentions "wait... you knew"

I found this piece of conversation to be so nice. Where you put the decision on someone smarter than you.

Shepard reponds "I dont know if I can trust the Krogan, but I trust you Mordin"

He rides up the elevator as usual cures the genophage.

Now many probably went through this but I never hessitated telling bakara what the dalatress offered me. But I was a bit blind to wrex.

Duno weird random 2 cents.

[DirtyPhoenix]

By giving them unlimited access to porn.

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Eve did not say that they'd refuse to have babies for any of Wrex's imperial ambitions, note. This could be the case, and remember that I do cure the genophage anyway, so it's worth a chance... but I'm very glad I have the Reapers standing by, just in case.

Why not? It could still be an advantage.

It wasn't quite a "war," at least not by turian standards. And remember, "genophage or genocide."

So you're saying they could have won conventionally?

Recall that it also has to do with the krogan's current actions up to the present day.

What imperial ambitions.  Wrex flat out says the Krogan have to change.  Eve goes so far to call him a mutant because of his views.  She has no reason to say she will refuse to have children because Wrex flat out says he is not going to fall victim to the same stupidity that his ancestors did.  She mentions it with Wreav because Wrev is the imperial idiot.

Umm, because you go around telling people to share their beacons.  You can't hide sh*t and the basically try and make it illegal for others to do the same.

First Contact War.  That is what it is called.  Don't need to play word games.

I don't know.  I do know I never heard about them trying to use bio-weapons against them.  I guess we will never know because they decided to use the Krogan as cannon fodder instead.

Current actions that are also in part the result of the genophage.  Mordin and Eve make clear the genophage only made their aggressive nature worse.  

1. She also says that if enough krogan oppose him, Wrex's motions could be defeated or repelled. Wrex also says that the chnage will be slow, and Garrus makes a joke about hiring a food taster for Wrex that might not be so far off, considering what traditionalists like Wreve think.

2. I agree that the asari screwed the galaxy over by hiding that beacon. The Asair Government may have even known about the Reapers, at least partly, depending on how much of the thing they analyzed, and kept it all hidden.

3. Actually, the Turians don't consider it an actual war. They refer to it as the "Relay 314 Incident." They say "First Contact War" when talking to humans as a simple courtisy because that's how Humans describe it. Victus says "The First Contact War, as you call it."
So no, no wordplay on that. The turians really don't consider that a "war."

4. Using a bio-weapon was likely a last resort. They probably found the krogan before they could be pushed that far.

5. And curing it now will do what? Unless the krogan have a solid head to control them, it will spiral out of control again. It's like looking for a needle in a haystack. It may not be the morally sound choice, but you can't blame people for being afraid of the danger of backfiring the anternitive choice has.

[Nightdragon8]

birth rate changes are not going to happen overnight. considering the fact they where just cured they are going to have a Massive population explosion.

The only way things wont spiral out of control will be if they put a huge limit on how many times they are allowed to give birth. And change how they treat other people. Otherwise the chances of a repeat of history is high.

[remydat]

Silver

1. None of which changes the fact they like any sentient species should be given a chance to decide their own path.

3. Don't care what the Turians called it.  It is wordplay.  When one side calls it the First Contact War and the other side calls it the Relay 314 incident, it is just wordplay.  Point is, they could have tried to resolve things peacefully.  They didn't.

4. Right so it is better to uplift a group you know is not ready and then use the bioweapon on them?

5. Curing it now will allow the Krogan to decide their own future.  No one claimed the risk is not real.  However, that is no excuse to continue to punish people for crimes their ancestors committed thousands of years ago.  If they Krogan repeat their mistakes then you deal with them then.

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

Silver

1. None of which changes the fact they like any sentient species should be given a chance to decide their own path.

3. Don't care what the Turians called it.  It is wordplay.  When one side calls it the First Contact War and the other side calls it the Relay 314 incident, it is just wordplay.  Point is, they could have tried to resolve things peacefully.  They didn't.

4. Right so it is better to uplift a group you know is not ready and then use the bioweapon on them?

5. Curing it now will allow the Krogan to decide their own future.  No one claimed the risk is not real.  However, that is no excuse to continue to punish people for crimes their ancestors committed thousands of years ago.  If they Krogan repeat their mistakes then you deal with them then.

1. So by your logic, we shouldn't begrudge the Reapers for the path they took? If the actions of said species affects the entire galaxy, that makes it my busness. Same for the rachni, geth, turians, salarians, asari, and so-on.
You yourself openly admitted that you acted as judge, jury and exicutioner for the Geth Heretics based on their choices. What makes that okay?

3. Do you read the Codex? "Civil, if not cordial, relations." And the attaitude they give to humans isn't much different then how they treat other races. It's not wordplay if one race has a completely different definition of what a conflict is.

4. They likely found the krogan well before the prospect of a bioweapon was ever brought up. Remember, the militristic turians were the ones that requested the creation of a bioweapon during the Krogan Rebllions. The Council would likely not have thought of it without turians around.
Besides, the Council figured that they might be able to peacefully uplift them into a new force for good. They underestimated them.

5. And if that future affects every other race in a negitive way? You seem to think that there is no need to consider the risk at all.
And if you feel that way, then why do you chastize the quarians for their choices in the Morning War? And the fact that they were forced into their second war by the threat of the Reapers? Or that you basically slaughter the Geth Heretics without letting them try to repent? You are contridicting yourself.
The krogan repented for their crime, in your viewpoint, but you still ignore the possible chance of future crimes.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 21 avril 2013 - 03:10 .

[Display Name Owner]

I'd like a hell of a lot more information on Krogan society before making any such decision. The Shadow Broker network would probably come in handy.

The resaon I say that is we get a really simplified view of the goings on on Tuchanka. We know Wrex is the most powerful leader and most, if not all Krogan submit to him, and we know that Eve is making waves in changing Krogan attitudes, but we don't know how the other Krogan actually feel about any of this. It's easy to imagine there's a big divide under the surface. Right now, when the Reapers are attacking and the there's talk of a Genophage cure, the Krogan have one focus - to get what they've been longing for for centuries, the cure, and to crush the galaxy's biggest enemy, the Reapers.

But we don't know what the other warlords may be planning. Many of them only went to Wrex begrudgingly, because he's the strongest and they had to, like Clan Gatatog. Wreav's attitude no doubt represents a hell of a lot of other Krogans', which would be how he remains as top dog when Wrex is out of the way. I mean, Wrex is really the one and only thing keeping the Krogan as a whole from following Wreav's path.

So whilst there's hope for large scale reform in the Krogan ways, it's tentative to say the least. Wrex isn't going to live forever, in fact, if many Krogan have their way he won't live much longer, I'm sure. He can use his status as the Krogan who forced the Genohpage cure to be given, but I doubt every single Krogan will care about that if they don't agree with his vision.

Plus, even Wrex starts demanding territory of the Council whilst the Reaper war is still raging. Now that's not unreasonable at all, but it still raises the issue of Krogan expansionism. It's definitely a step up from his ancestors who instead of asking just took planets by force, and he's not stupid enough to ever start doing that, but it does highlight the issue of the Krogan's rapid birth rate. If they don't adopt a system like the Salarians, who also have a high birth rate but take steps to control it (easier for them since they don't have sex drives), the Krogan are going to need more and more room. That is, unless the infighting between clans rages again. And I'm sure that will happen. With the Genophage cured troops become more expendable, and I can imagine many warlords taking it as license to throw caution to the wind.

All that said, there are many who agree with Wrex's ideals, who I'm sure would move to crush any upstart clans, as they had been between ME1 & 2. The rest of the races also have prior knowledge of what to expect from the Krogan, so they might be able to intervene and help keep things under control (Krogan Spectres could be useful here, if any were to be inducted). I'd think Wrex has learned enough about working alongside other species to allow such intervention if necessary.

Really there are a lot of ifs and maybes, which isn't ideal for a situation which may or may not result in tearing the galaxy apart... I don't believe the Krogan of today (not today, you know what I mean) deserve to suffer for the stupidity of their ancestors, but on the other hand, a great many of them do nothing to demonstrate that they don't suffer the same stupidity.

So as to the question, it depends. I wouldn't cure the Genophage under the circumstances it was done in ME3, in a rush, with no contingencies in place, with all guarantees of behaviour on the Krogans' part resting on the shoulders of one fairly old warlord, because what happens when Wrex dies? If I were to cure it, I would have to have second Genophage prepared beforehand, just in case, and I'd need a lot more information regarding Krogan society. Ideally, the cure would only be a partial one. I'm not pro-genetic tampering, but the Krogan's reproduction rate is way too high to be sustainable, when coupled with their way of life. Honestly I'd much rather have something that changes the way the Genophage works than eliminates it completely. If it would keep the Krogan birthrate low, whilst removing the horrible aspect of mass stillbirths, that would be ideal. I'd also rather wait until Krogan reforms are fully ingrained into their society and then implement the cure in stages.

So no, I wouldn't just give them a cure because Wrex demands it and he's a good guy. There's way too much risk (or guarantee even) of future problems, and the galaxy will be in no shape to deal with them after the Reapers have been around. Curing it is the decent thing to do, but I don't know that it's the right thing to do.

[radishson]

No. Wrex was exceedingly childish for demanding such a lofty payment for help against the Reapers, considering there won't be a genophage to fight about if resistance isn't unified.

This argument has been going on for years and most of the relevant points have already been discussed to death, but I'd like to say that it really annoys me when people call genophage supporters "racist". Alien species are far more detached from humans, both biologically and culturally, than races are within humanity itself. There are no biological differences between each race aside from extremely superficial ones. When humans express racism, they are acting on cultural prejudice alone.

But that is not the same for different species. Although the krogan are sentient, they are more akin to animals than to fellow humans - not in particular mental capacities, but in the biological gap between the two. Traits like extreme aggression and a lack of active empathy are *innate* within their biology and cannot be changed through any sort of reason or conditioning. Giving the krogan culture a chance to blossom post-cure means absolutely nothing in terms of long term galactic stability.

[MysticSpace]

Aslong as Wrex and Bakura are in charge. Also we'll need them to fight the Yahg who the STG think they can control.

[Bardox9]

The Yahg on Sur'Kesh and the Salarian plans to secretly "uplift" them has me concrned. The little that is known about the Yahg is their ability to learn is on par with the salarians, but they are even more vicious than the Krogan. ME4 possibilities.... but back to the Genophage question...

Taken from the wiki...
"In 2185, Mordin Solus explains that the krogan are in fact evolving to undo the damage of the genophage. To prevent overpopulation, Mordin's Special Tasks Group team created and applied a modified version of the genophage, which he claims will keep the population down but still allows for a viable population, indicating the krogan race isn't as doomed as they believe. Mordin states that both the original and new genophage were designed to stabilise the krogan birth rate at pre-industrial levels—one viable birth per thousand. Given the prodigious krogan birth rate, it would appear that the enormously violent nature of krogan culture is actually responsible for their dwindling numbers. Ironically, this means that if the krogan were not so convinced that they, as a species, are doomed, and consequently spent less time roaming the galaxy spoiling for a fight, their numbers might increase—they are essentially being killed by their own fatalism."

The Genophage isn't killing them, their own violent nature is killing them. Sad to say, but Wreav is the common Krogan. More interested in picking fights than strengthening the species, which the plan Wrex and Bakara have will easily do. But once they are dead that plan will die with them. Then history repeats... The krogan are hailed as heroes, they get a few planets to colonise for all that they did in the war. Soon those worlds are overcrowded and running out of resources. The krogan spead out to forcibly claim other already inhabited worlds. There will always be "just one more world" needed. Let the new Krogan rebellion begin

As a player I preffer to cure the Genophage for my good buddy Wrex and Grunt who is just cuddle bear... with a shotgun. But if I lived in the ME universe... Look, the Genophage stabilized their population growth. Their numbers are dropping because they are, for lack of a better word, depressed. Lying about the cure might be the best thing there. Just tell them it will take a generation or two for the full effects to kick in. Krogan no longer focus on  how doomed they are and focus on rebuild Tuchanka, as a result fewer Krogan leave the homeworld to die in pointless merc battles and their populations slowly begins to rise. HOORAY!... CURE!

Modifié par Bardox9, 22 avril 2013 - 12:42 .