185 réponses à ce sujet

[brblx]

What? They messed up your haircut, you say? You've got a big bald spot in the middle of your head?

Well, you're no professional stylist. You have no idea what you're talking about.

People like you are the reason Fox News stays on the air. Learn to question things instead of letting 'professionals' dictate your opinions.

[InfamousResult]

brblx wrote...

What? They messed up your haircut, you say? You've got a big bald spot in the middle of your head?

Well, you're no professional stylist. You have no idea what you're talking about.

People like you are the reason Fox News stays on the air. Learn to question things instead of letting 'professionals' dictate your opinions.

No, and that's a god-awful analogy.

You are not saying "Bioware, you cut a big bald spot in my head and I'm angry", you're saying "Bioware, it has taken longer than I like for you to finish cutting my hair", regardless of how intricate the haircut is or how much hair you had to begin with. To top it off, you've never cut hair a day in your life, so you have no idea how long this particular haircut would even take.

You are assuming they're a terrible barber or purposely doing a bad job, although you have NO BASIS for that assumption.

Modifié par InfamousResult, 23 juillet 2012 - 06:50 .

[JustinSaneV2]

Shpoon wrote...

.458 wrote...

NewStrings wrote...

.458 wrote...
Are you serious? He asked a question. I've been a software engineer a long long time, and a gamer longer than that. He's very right a lot of games have glitches. I also think BW is comitting suicide by not fixing important issues before they alienate too many people.

As someone who has a background in computer games programming... it's not that easy. You can't just slap a plaster on it, or automatically skip to the affected line of code, change one digit, and have everything working again. What may fix this glitch could have consequences which then need to be explored in more depth. Sometimes it's difficult to even identify the problem, let alone fix it. It's silly - and dare I say, idiotic - to think that Bioware can't be bothered to fix it, or they CAN fix it and just choose not to.

I'm very aware of the issue and have personally coded this type of C++. I code for a living. But, I'm saying there is a leadership vacuum that BW does not publicly admit to the issue and explain what they think is going on. I've actually approached them about some network issues which greatly contribute to this. I know it is not easy, but they have had a long time to address this...fix or no fix, they produce the appearance of not working on it. I know enough about it to say they have a starting point. My guess is that in part developers are not free to fix what they want to fix, and that management drives their priorities. I am blaming their management for not understanding their own industry. I do also have a business degree in addition to the CS degree, and have watched this sort of failure too many times.

I tried to make a similar point earlier in the thread. I've yet to see anyone from BioWare come out & apologise for the issue. I know people have used the arguement that the multi-player is a free add on, however I beg to differ. I paid my money for both single player & multi-player, also thrown some money at a couple of Spectre Packs when I first started. I think for that I should be allowed play the game with others (I don't do solo, nor should I have to) free of glitches.

I think at the least we should get some sort of acknowledgement from BioWare that they are aware of the issue, they're working on fixing it & they're sorry for the inconvenience. It's so simple to put a post up on the Forums stating all this, lock it so it stays at the top & it will mean a lot, giving us peace of mind that it is being look at as a priority. Silence is never a good sign 

If you're looking for an apology then I would stop holding your breath.  

http://social.biowar...5/index/9684873
This problem has existed since day one and BioWare has not apologized for it once (nor have they updated us in over three months now).
http://social.biowar...ex/9684873&lf=8 

Modifié par JustinSaneV2, 23 juillet 2012 - 07:07 .

[Mgamerz]

The last patch came out 3 months ago ('almost', 3 months). If the issue only affects a small subset (<2% or so of the userbase), there is a good chance it won't be fixed. If BW tried to make this game perfect all the developers would die of old age. You have to cut your losses at some point. Just like you don't keep pumping money into a dying old car, you don't keep pumping money into a game that's not going to keep making money.
3 months is about as long as patch spans can go before I get tired of waiting. 3 months is a quarterly patch for major issues, and minor issues are fix-as-you-go and pack into the next one. Many companies adopt a quarterly patch system (See Adobe). I'm not complaining, just disappointed that one has not come out yet. The longer BW waits, the more people are going to expect from the patch.

Modifié par Mgamerz, 23 juillet 2012 - 07:12 .

[Rizzo19]

Easier to ban than to fix, i guess

[jediluck]

Really, banning isn't going to work. More people will just buy the game again or other people will just do the glitch and it won't go away. The way to fix people doing a glitch... is to fix the glitch itself... banning isn't going to work and doing that is just going to lower peoples feelings toward BioWare.

[JustinSaneV2]

Mgamerz wrote...

The last patch came out 3 months ago ('almost', 3 months). If the issue only affects a small subset (<2% or so of the userbase), there is a good chance it won't be fixed. If BW tried to make this game perfect all the developers would die of old age. You have to cut your losses at some point. Just like you don't keep pumping money into a dying old car, you don't keep pumping money into a game that's not going to keep making money.
3 months is about as long as patch spans can go before I get tired of waiting. 3 months is a quarterly patch for major issues, and minor issues are fix-as-you-go and pack into the next one. Many companies adopt a quarterly patch system (See Adobe). I'm not complaining, just disappointed that one has not come out yet. The longer BW waits, the more people are going to expect from the patch.

Chris Priestly wrote...

 All bugs are investigated by the team and are prioritized in a process called triage. Bugs are triaged based on how important they are to the game and how many people are encountering them. This means an issue can be extremely important if it effects a lot of people OR that an issue that effects a few people, but prevents them from playing the game can both be equally important. The team works to fix as many issues as possible in a given patch process. 

http://social.biowar...5/index/9948071 

Thomas Abram wrote...

Hey everyone,

This issue is still a top priority of ours and we are still investigating it. 

 http://social.biowar...ex/9684873&lf=8 


The issue literally breaks the game so according to BioWare themselves it should be their highest priority.  Turns out it's an absolute load of BS.

Modifié par JustinSaneV2, 23 juillet 2012 - 07:20 .

[joker_jack]

You can't go into a pug on platinum without there being someone doing the glitch.

[Gockey]

Literally every other platinum PuG lobby you have to ask via the mic for XXXX player to leave since you won't be glitching. If I see the falcon, scorpion, krysae I ask them first then vote to kick if I don't hear anything.

That being said, I think Bioware is absolutely idiotic in their handling of this. Banning a player who bought your product is a good way to insure someone steers clear in the future IMO. Handle it like Bungie did in the Halo series. Superjumps were tolerated in 2, glitches in 3, and in Reach they now patch them out as they find them. Perma-Banning someone for a mechanic you developed, accidentally or not, is asinine. (IMO =P)

[JustinSaneV2]

Gockey wrote...

That being said, I think Bioware is absolutely idiotic in their handling of this. Banning a player who bought your product is a good way to insure someone steers clear in the future IMO. Handle it like Bungie did in the Halo series. Superjumps were tolerated in 2, glitches in 3, and in Reach they now patch them out as they find them. Perma-Banning someone for a mechanic you developed, accidentally or not, is asinine. (IMO =P)

This.  1000x this.  It would be slightly different if it there was actual "hacking" or a more in-depth process to performing the glitch but it's honestly something that could just as easily be done by a monkey.  

When (or I should say if...) this gets fixed then BioWare should unban all those those that were "punished" because of this glitch.  Most of them were probably just trying to get credits rather than cause grief and you can't really blame them (especially if they don't have countless hours to waste on the game's RNG store like some of us here).  

Modifié par JustinSaneV2, 23 juillet 2012 - 08:09 .

[cronshaw]

The two are not mutually exclusive and both are necessary. Frankly some of the rationalizing and "logic" from people here is disturbing to say the least.

Modifié par modok8, 23 juillet 2012 - 08:12 .

[Kataigida]

Banning and patch is done by two separate groups of people. So spending time to ban 1,000+ people doesn't take any time away from patching.

As for patching...well it's probably pretty damn tough to try and fix the rocket glitch, especially since it is mostly caused by lag and very precise timing. It is possible that they will not be able to fix it because of this, without some dramatic re-write of the coding for missiles/explosive weapons. I'm taken some college level programming classes, and I'm not even sure where you would even begin to try and tweak the codes to get rid of this bug...the other bugs, sure I'd have some ideas that I could try out, but not the rocket glitch.

[Kataigida]

JustinSaneV2 wrote...

Gockey wrote...

That being said, I think Bioware is absolutely idiotic in their handling of this. Banning a player who bought your product is a good way to insure someone steers clear in the future IMO. Handle it like Bungie did in the Halo series. Superjumps were tolerated in 2, glitches in 3, and in Reach they now patch them out as they find them. Perma-Banning someone for a mechanic you developed, accidentally or not, is asinine. (IMO =P)

This.  1000x this.  It would be slightly different if it there was actual "hacking" or a more in-depth process to performing the glitch but it's honestly something that could just as easily be done by a monkey.  

When (or I should say if...) this gets fixed then BioWare should unban all those those that were "punished" because of this glitch.  Most of them were probably just trying to get credits rather than cause grief and you can't really blame them (especially if they don't have countless hours to waste on the game's RNG store like some of us here).  

*sigh* Oh look...more people like this... Then again I'm not surprised.

Let's put aside the fact that you violate the terms and agreements you accepted before playing the game, and let's just look at this from the view of non-glitching players.

For one, you're taking the fun out of the game by destroying everything with infinite missiles. This can also be considered greifing.

Another, you are exploiting a glitch for the benefit of making the game many times easier for you, allowing you to get credits and points faster/easier. Making credits faster/easier makes people less likely to spend actual cash on a product, and BW doesn't want that.

If you don't want to waste countless hours on the RNG, then just go play SP or a different game. Meanwhile, other people will have fun with what they have.

[Mgamerz]

JustinSaneV2 wrote...

Mgamerz wrote...

The last patch came out 3 months ago ('almost', 3 months). If the issue only affects a small subset (<2% or so of the userbase), there is a good chance it won't be fixed. If BW tried to make this game perfect all the developers would die of old age. You have to cut your losses at some point. Just like you don't keep pumping money into a dying old car, you don't keep pumping money into a game that's not going to keep making money.
3 months is about as long as patch spans can go before I get tired of waiting. 3 months is a quarterly patch for major issues, and minor issues are fix-as-you-go and pack into the next one. Many companies adopt a quarterly patch system (See Adobe). I'm not complaining, just disappointed that one has not come out yet. The longer BW waits, the more people are going to expect from the patch.

Chris Priestly wrote...

 All bugs are investigated by the team and are prioritized in a process called triage. Bugs are triaged based on how important they are to the game and how many people are encountering them. This means an issue can be extremely important if it effects a lot of people OR that an issue that effects a few people, but prevents them from playing the game can both be equally important. The team works to fix as many issues as possible in a given patch process. 

http://social.biowar...5/index/9948071 

Thomas Abram wrote...

Hey everyone,

This issue is still a top priority of ours and we are still investigating it. 

 http://social.biowar...ex/9684873&lf=8 


The issue literally breaks the game so according to BioWare themselves it should be their highest priority.  Turns out it's an absolute load of BS.

>Still investigating [no solution found yet]
>"can both be equally important" -> keyword is can

The unable to start glitch is where you ask for a refund. You are legally entitled to play the game you purchased [shipping]. [You are not entitled to use their mulitplayer matchmaking] People who whine about glitches that 'annoy' people are not because the game still works as intended, and there is no way to refute that.

Modifié par Mgamerz, 23 juillet 2012 - 08:17 .

[zizao]

Really I think perma bans are stupid. If there is a problem with a glitch, temp ban people for a week if it is breaking the game while you fix the problem.

BW handles this so stupidly.

[MingoStarr]

zizao wrote...

Really I think perma bans are stupid. If there is a problem with a glitch, temp ban people for a week if it is breaking the game while you fix the problem.

BW handles this so stupidly.

They would also need to strip the people of the credits they earned during the glitching though, so this is why they ban. People used a glitch to get an edge on the other players, so the fair thing to do is either revert the damage done, or get rid of it completely. It's easier to just get rid of it though.

I think once the glitch is fixed, the people banned for the glitch should be allowed to come back, but start over fresh, no N7, no credits, no weapons or characters.

[Gockey]

Kataigida wrote...


*sigh* Oh look...more people like this... Then again I'm not surprised.

Let's put aside the fact that you violate the terms and agreements you accepted before playing the game, and let's just look at this from the view of non-glitching players.

For one, you're taking the fun out of the game by destroying everything with infinite missiles. This can also be considered greifing.

Another, you are exploiting a glitch for the benefit of making the game many times easier for you, allowing you to get credits and points faster/easier. Making credits faster/easier makes people less likely to spend actual cash on a product, and BW doesn't want that.

If you don't want to waste countless hours on the RNG, then just go play SP or a different game. Meanwhile, other people will have fun with what they have.

Oh please.  Get off your self righteous soap box and quit casting disparaging remarks.  You just look silly.  

You don't speak for everyone so couching your opinion of fun as the universal one is ridiculous.  Your entitled to your opinion, the same as everyone else.  And your need to spell out why utilizing the glitch is a bad thing doesn't come across as informative or helpful; the explanation of the obvious is condescending.  

We are all aware that a ToS and a EULA exist.  Quoting them doesn't negate the fact that Bioware's track record for bug fixes in this MP is bad.  Like really bad.  Banning people for their mistakes is their perogative certainly.

 It's also the lazy way out. (IMO =P)

[Dresden867]

OP: they have said clearly that the are aware of the issue. They have said clearly that they are working on it.

Asking for an apology for what is obviously a bug seems like... overkill. They are almost certainly setting up to roll it into the next major patch.

They have not been silent.

Additionally, you seem to be laboring under the misapprehension that Bioware consists of one unit of guys, who are either busy responding to forum posts -or- working on bugs -or- doing bans. This is hardly the case. The guys managing account bans are not the same guys as the programmers working on patching the bug, etc.

[.458]

Gockey wrote...
....

We are all aware that a ToS and a EULA exist.  Quoting them doesn't negate the fact that Bioware's track record for bug fixes in this MP is bad.  Like really bad.  Banning people for their mistakes is their perogative certainly.

 It's also the lazy way out. (IMO =P)

I keep saying BW needs to talk about these issues, that they are serious enough they need to have a much higher priority than "don't even bother to mention them". BW's record at prioritizing (should be a sev. 1 ticket) is terrible. But I give them quite a few marks above those who cheat. Good riddance. At least I know there have to be a LOT of developers there who want to fix things, but likely are not allowed to. Very very likely someone who doesn't know what they are doing in management has also forbid their people from talking about it. It isn't all of BW that is lazy, there is basically someone telling them to prioritize some really bad marketing concept that admitting things or public announcements of progress are not a fundamental part of their industry. I'm sure most of the developers have very long days and more things on their plate than a normal day can get done.

[Krantzstone]

I think the worst part is that this whole issue and how it's being dealt with is creating a situation which is a major bone of contention both amongst players, and between players and the game developers.

Despite the BSN forum splash page which warns people not to go around personally attacking each other (or staff) there's already all manner of this sort of behaviour going on.

Although I don't think anyone should get so riled up as to start freaking out at each other, I appreciate that many people take this issue seriously, and they want to know that BioWare is doing something, and getting something done to fix the bug, or at least deal with the matter constructively and fairly.

My main concern for BioWare/EA is that all this controversy is going to drive people away from the game, or keep people from buying the game: the only thing worse than a game full of glitchers, is a game full of glitchers _and_ innocent people caught in the wake getting blanket banninated by an overly zealous team of game cops.

And if that happens, the multiplayer is going to die, which is no fun for me. I play PUGs exclusively because I don't have any friends who play ME3 multiplayer, and finding people to play with is hard enough without killing the game population either by allowing the missile glitching to continue, or banning a sizeable portion of the community (guilty or not), or otherwise reacting to the issue in a manner that keeps people from buying the game, or drives people who love the game to go elsewhere.

It's kind of sad that for all the many cheaters I've run into competitive Halo: Reach multiplayer, I started playing it again the other day and I actually had a great time that I'm actually getting dragged away from ME3 multiplayer even though I enjoy it. But worrying about glitchers, worrying about glitches, worrying about disconnects, worrying about using certain weapons, or using the Cobra, or what-have-you, just really starts robbing me of my personal enjoyment of the game.

Being on PC, I've never encountered the missile glitch myself, and most people I've played with in PUGs were nice (actually, most of them were silent, myself included ), and many of them were really great players, not griefing or being elitist, or trying to tell me or other teammates what to do, kibbitzing or playing armchair coach, and generally just being great teamplayers. Even the occasional consumable hoarders has done nothing to dampen my enthusiasm for a multiplayer game that I never thought I'd ever find myself enjoying (I'm not really into coop PvE-type gaming, generally, let alone Horde modes), and especially after having heard so much badmouthing of the multiplayer prior to the game's release.

So it would sadden me to see this entire issue and how it's dealt with become the thing that ultimately kills the multiplayer, when ME3 defied the odds in terms of getting mostly single player RPG players to actually try going online and playing with other people, and getting over all the stigma of both the controversial SP ending as well as the general gaming community hoopla over accusations that the MP portion merely existed to 1) ensure second-hand sales would force people to purchase online passes, 2) prevent or reduce piracy, 3) nickel-and-dime people via the store's microtransactions.

[Mgamerz]

A good read, came out today or a few days ago, from Ars Technica

[brblx]

Mgamerz wrote...

A good read, came out today or a few days ago, from Ars Technica

I'm normally not one to defend Microsoft...but I've always assumed that the fees were an effort to get developers to test games and fix the bugs before they ship the product.

It's absurd that fanboys want to refer to needed patching as undue 'entitlement'. Their parents really need to keep them from watching the 24 hour news networks so they won't learn these words and their new distorted definitions.

Lazy developers and greedy publishers already killed PC gaming. And no, I'm not looking for a debate on the 'PC gaming is dead' front. Anyone who wishes to start that, remember that you're playing a buggy console port and go sit in the corner. Consoles are not just the primary gaming market, but the primary development platform. I'm not saying I like it.

That said; the entire REASON I began playing console games was so that I didn't have to wait a month for patches just to have a playable game. Or, well, I used to have to wait a month. Now games like EA's own Battlefield 3 have proven that you can charge $60 for a coaster and get away with it. I think it's nine months and counting since that game game out, and it's still basically an unstable beta.

Not to mention not having to worry that the game won't run right because you didn't buy your hardware from the company sponsored and/or promoted by the publisher. Among other things.

But now greedy corporations like EA have pretty much ruined console gaming, too. Yes, us greedy console players are just so damned entitled to games that work properly.

Anyone remember when PC games used to receive a steady stream of patches after release, and no one even noticed them? Their fix lists consisted of behind-the-scenes problems that the players generally didn't even know were there. Now you can't even get these lazy, bloated conglomerates to acknowledge, let alone fix, problems that affect the entire community.

Oh well, who cares, mommy buys my games for me.

Modifié par brblx, 23 juillet 2012 - 10:45 .

[Kataigida]

Gockey wrote...

Kataigida wrote...


*sigh* Oh look...more people like this... Then again I'm not surprised.

Let's put aside the fact that you violate the terms and agreements you accepted before playing the game, and let's just look at this from the view of non-glitching players.

For one, you're taking the fun out of the game by destroying everything with infinite missiles. This can also be considered greifing.

Another, you are exploiting a glitch for the benefit of making the game many times easier for you, allowing you to get credits and points faster/easier. Making credits faster/easier makes people less likely to spend actual cash on a product, and BW doesn't want that.

If you don't want to waste countless hours on the RNG, then just go play SP or a different game. Meanwhile, other people will have fun with what they have.

Oh please.  Get off your self righteous soap box and quit casting disparaging remarks.  You just look silly.  

You don't speak for everyone so couching your opinion of fun as the universal one is ridiculous.  Your entitled to your opinion, the same as everyone else.  And your need to spell out why utilizing the glitch is a bad thing doesn't come across as informative or helpful; the explanation of the obvious is condescending.  

We are all aware that a ToS and a EULA exist.  Quoting them doesn't negate the fact that Bioware's track record for bug fixes in this MP is bad.  Like really bad.  Banning people for their mistakes is their perogative certainly.

 It's also the lazy way out. (IMO =P)

You can say what you want about me, I don't really mind. I know I am a bit on the tempermental side about the morals of cheating in this game, but I have to say that...

I really hate the people that say that BW would rather ban people than fix the problem, or say that BW is taking the lazy way out. Anybody with any sense of coding would know how hard it can be to fix glitches, especially glitches that are caused or influenced by lag.

There are hundreds of millions of lines of code in ME3, and there are several different functions that go into every action in the game. The most prodominate glitches, Vanguard and Missile, have a lot of different lines of codes being used, that normally function perfectly, until someone throws a little lag-wrench into the mix. If there wasn't any lag, we wouldn't have either of those two glitches, so it's not like they can say 'this one line of code is causing the problem. Fix it and it's solved!'

Instead, they have to try and go through each and every intersecting line of code (which is particularly difficult for these two glitches) and try to find a way to re-create functions so that they become immune to lag, which is just about impossible to do, unless you have a lot of ideas and plenty of time to preform trial-and-error runs.


::Edit::

And again, the people that ban players and the people that fix bugs and glitches are two seperate groups...so it's not like the team that is fixing the glitches is stopping what they are doing to ban people.

Modifié par Kataigida, 24 juillet 2012 - 01:34 .

[Atheosis]

At the rate I'm running into it, there isn't going to be many people left to play with if they keep banning all the glitchers. They have to fix the glitch. It's a serious threat to the entire multiplayer community now.

[Finnegone]

theillusiveman11 wrote...

tl;rd

I think that banning won't solve the problem. It's rampant on 360 right now, I don't know about PS3 and it isn't possible to replicate on PC like it is on console. Due to the fact that most players don't frequent the forums, they won't ever know that they can be banned for repeated use of this glitch.

I hate this tl;dr crap that you kids drop on folks who spend time tryng to post something well reasoned and thoughtful. Is it really so hard to read 250 words? Grump.

At any rate, you missed the main thrust of the OP's argument, which I"ll quote for him or her again:

"I don't know enough about the construction of games to say this with much conviction, but would BioWare not have been better off spending that time trying to just correct the glitch?"

I think this is an excellent question. How many resources does EA / BW have tied up investigating players? Wouldn't that money be better spent on fixing the problem?