131 réponses à ce sujet

[AresKeith]

aren't the Reapers each their own Nation

[AgentMrOrange]

Embody define
to gather and organize a number of things into a whole
to express or exemplify something abstract in bodily form

still separate things

[Dessalines]

im commander shep wrote...

What about husks they are not AI we see them wiped out????

Husks are basically fleshed covered synthetics.  Most people missed this, because they get stuck on the Reapers are harvesting people, and not killing them. No, they are killing them. It is was a wave on energy, and it targeted a specific electronics, so that does make it something like an EMP. It is still not an EMP, but there is no such thing as a Mass Effect core either.

[dreman9999]

elitehunter34 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...1.How moch power is need to make an emp that would effect a reaper?
2.How areyou going to get every reaper at once?
3. What is stopping the reaper to find some way to protect themselve for what ever low scale emp weapons well use?

Remeber, the crucible is a massive power source.

It is not a matter of power.  If a device is completely shielded against emp, an emp pulse would do nothing to it.  Much how emp would do nothing to a rock.  Not only that, but if the Crucible was an emp weapon, it would destroy all unshielded electronics.  It would fry all computers and electrical systems.  Clearly that didn't happen because the cutscene shows ships flying perfectly fine immediately after the blast.  There is too much evidence against your claim that the Crucible is an actual emp weapon.

Power is an issue. EMP sheilding is about protecting the device from the wave link that causes disfunction by making it's  sheild into a  conductor. If the conductor is overwhelmed, then it false.

[ZLurps]

elitehunter34 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...1.How moch power is need to make an emp that would effect a reaper?
2.How areyou going to get every reaper at once?
3. What is stopping the reaper to find some way to protect themselve for what ever low scale emp weapons well use?

Remeber, the crucible is a massive power source.

It is not a matter of power.  If a device is completely shielded against emp, an emp pulse would do nothing to it.  Much how emp would do nothing to a rock.  Not only that, but if the Crucible was an emp weapon, it would destroy all unshielded electronics.  It would fry all computers and electrical systems.  Clearly that didn't happen because the cutscene shows ships flying perfectly fine immediately after the blast.  There is too much evidence against your claim that the Crucible is an actual emp weapon.

I'm not going to take sides here but:

I think that what Dreman calls an EMP weapon, is energy pulse, we could call it "AAP" (Anti Ai Pulse) or whatever.

Instead of frying all electronics, it's somehow on right frequencies to delete both, reaper nano-machines and all other AI's. From physics point (as sci in fi) how it would work, it makes no ****ing sense, but in story perspective, (fi) it works, or does if you don't think sci that much.

[SSPBOURNE]

This never would have happened if we didn't add that artistic integrity module to the crucible.

[dreman9999]

AgentMrOrange wrote...

Embody define
to gather and organize a number of things into a whole
to express or exemplify something abstract in bodily form

still separate things

embody
http://www.merriam-w...ctionary/embody 

: to give a body to (a spirit) 2a[/i] : to deprive of spiritualityb[/i] : to make concrete and perceptible3: to cause to become a body or part of a body : incorporate4: to represent in human or animal form 
"I  embodyment the collective inteligence of the reapers."

He basicly is the inteligence, ideals, concepts, and persona of the reapers. That means his is the reapers. If he is gone, the reapers stop.

[dreman9999]

ZLurps wrote...

elitehunter34 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...1.How moch power is need to make an emp that would effect a reaper?
2.How areyou going to get every reaper at once?
3. What is stopping the reaper to find some way to protect themselve for what ever low scale emp weapons well use?

Remeber, the crucible is a massive power source.

It is not a matter of power.  If a device is completely shielded against emp, an emp pulse would do nothing to it.  Much how emp would do nothing to a rock.  Not only that, but if the Crucible was an emp weapon, it would destroy all unshielded electronics.  It would fry all computers and electrical systems.  Clearly that didn't happen because the cutscene shows ships flying perfectly fine immediately after the blast.  There is too much evidence against your claim that the Crucible is an actual emp weapon.

I'm not going to take sides here but:

I think that what Dreman calls an EMP weapon, is energy pulse, we could call it "AAP" (Anti Ai Pulse) or whatever.

Instead of frying all electronics, it's somehow on right frequencies to delete both, reaper nano-machines and all other AI's. From physics point (as sci in fi) how it would work, it makes no ****ing sense, but in story perspective, (fi) it works, or does if you don't think sci that much.

If the machanics of a computer is damaged, What ever info that's on it is gone. it's the same thing as what your stating.

[AresKeith]

dreman9999 wrote...

AgentMrOrange wrote...

Embody define
to gather and organize a number of things into a whole
to express or exemplify something abstract in bodily form

still separate things

embody
http://www.merriam-w...ctionary/embody 

: to give a body to (a spirit) 2a[/i] : to deprive of spiritualityb[/i] : to make concrete and perceptible3: to cause to become a body or part of a body : incorporate4: to represent in human or animal form 
"I  embodyment the collective inteligence of the reapers."

He basicly is the inteligence, ideals, concepts, and persona of the reapers. That means his is the reapers. If he is gone, the reapers stop.

so when Sovereign said "we each are our own Nation" he was lying?

[dreman9999]

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

AgentMrOrange wrote...

Embody define
to gather and organize a number of things into a whole
to express or exemplify something abstract in bodily form

still separate things

embody
http://www.merriam-w...ctionary/embody 

: to give a body to (a spirit) 2a[/i] : to deprive of spiritualityb[/i] : to make concrete and perceptible3: to cause to become a body or part of a body : incorporate4: to represent in human or animal form 
"I  embodyment the collective inteligence of the reapers."

He basicly is the inteligence, ideals, concepts, and persona of the reapers. That means his is the reapers. If he is gone, the reapers stop.

so when Sovereign said "we each are our own Nation" he was lying?

Take note that the reapers and the catalyst are indoctrinated. Add, machines personas are highly maluable. Amachinecan be mean and one thing at once. Think of sovergin as a highly advance single geth unit. He still part ot the catalyst as one geth unit is part of legion.

[elitehunter34]

dreman9999 wrote...
If the machanics of a computer is damaged, What ever info that's on it is gone. it's the same thing as what your stating.

Look Dreman, if you are saying that it is some kind of anti ai weapon, fine, but it is not an emp weapon.

The Crucible's effects are all completely contrived.  Theres no reason why the Crucible does x or y, and it's abilities seem quite contradictory.  You can play the special pleading game about why the Crucible does x or y, but can't do z all day, but the fact is that the Crucible doesn't have to kill the Geth/EDI.  I don't want to argue the mechanics of a fictional device that operates on fictional principles.  Why the writers chose to kill them off is beyond me, but it probably had something to do with the writers having some sort misconcieved notion that the Destroy ending needed a dire cost of some sort.  Bull****.  It's a contrivance and having to make a choice based on the effects of a fictional device that could theoretically do anything they want it to do is a completely and utterly meaningless choice.

[AresKeith]

dreman9999 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

AgentMrOrange wrote...

Embody define
to gather and organize a number of things into a whole
to express or exemplify something abstract in bodily form

still separate things

embody
http://www.merriam-w...ctionary/embody 

: to give a body to (a spirit) 2a[/i] : to deprive of spiritualityb[/i] : to make concrete and perceptible3: to cause to become a body or part of a body : incorporate4: to represent in human or animal form 
"I  embodyment the collective inteligence of the reapers."

He basicly is the inteligence, ideals, concepts, and persona of the reapers. That means his is the reapers. If he is gone, the reapers stop.

so when Sovereign said "we each are our own Nation" he was lying?

Take note that the reapers and the catalyst are indoctrinated. Add, machines personas are highly maluable. Amachinecan be mean and one thing at once. Think of sovergin as a highly advance single geth unit. He still part ot the catalyst as one geth unit is part of legion.

how are they indoctrinated when they invented it?

[Marauder Shieldz]

LordMilitantAlex wrote...

I can't wait to see the look on Tali's face when she pulls Shepard out of the rubble after the High EMS destroy ending. Oh wait.

Still waiting for that reunion they promised us. 

[dreman9999]

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

AgentMrOrange wrote...

Embody define
to gather and organize a number of things into a whole
to express or exemplify something abstract in bodily form

still separate things

embody
http://www.merriam-w...ctionary/embody 

: to give a body to (a spirit) 2a[/i] : to deprive of spiritualityb[/i] : to make concrete and perceptible3: to cause to become a body or part of a body : incorporate4: to represent in human or animal form 
"I  embodyment the collective inteligence of the reapers."

He basicly is the inteligence, ideals, concepts, and persona of the reapers. That means his is the reapers. If he is gone, the reapers stop.

so when Sovereign said "we each are our own Nation" he was lying?

Take note that the reapers and the catalyst are indoctrinated. Add, machines personas are highly maluable. Amachinecan be mean and one thing at once. Think of sovergin as a highly advance single geth unit. He still part ot the catalyst as one geth unit is part of legion.

how are they indoctrinated when they invented it?

Your confusing organic indoctrination with synthetic indoctrination. Indoctriantion is the writing of organic nerve cells and thinking. Synthetic indoctrination is just synthetics doing what they are programed to do and have no way to change it.
That's a shackled AI. Understand this machines simple fallow what they are programed to do dispite who intilegent they are. The only time a machine is free is if they can write there own programing. The reapers and the catalyst are stuck just doing their programing and can not change it. That in it'self is indoctrination.

[dreman9999]

elitehunter34 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
If the machanics of a computer is damaged, What ever info that's on it is gone. it's the same thing as what your stating.

Look Dreman, if you are saying that it is some kind of anti ai weapon, fine, but it is not an emp weapon.

The Crucible's effects are all completely contrived.  Theres no reason why the Crucible does x or y, and it's abilities seem quite contradictory.  You can play the special pleading game about why the Crucible does x or y, but can't do z all day, but the fact is that the Crucible doesn't have to kill the Geth/EDI.  I don't want to argue the mechanics of a fictional device that operates on fictional principles.  Why the writers chose to kill them off is beyond me, but it probably had something to do with the writers having some sort misconcieved notion that the Destroy ending needed a dire cost of some sort.  Bull****.  It's a contrivance and having to make a choice based on the effects of a fictional device that could theoretically do anything they want it to do is a completely and utterly meaningless choice.

No, It makes sense. AI are tech and depend on tech and programing to be alive. If you have a weapon the effect tech, how does it not effect and kill AI's?
It's not hard to uderstand why it only attacks AI's with emps in excictance.
Saying that a weapon that effect tech kills off AI's maked no sense is like saying poison killing of organics makesno sense.

Modifié par dreman9999, 22 juillet 2012 - 07:52 .

[ZLurps]

elitehunter34 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
If the machanics of a computer is damaged, What ever info that's on it is gone. it's the same thing as what your stating.

Look Dreman, if you are saying that it is some kind of anti ai weapon, fine, but it is not an emp weapon.

The Crucible's effects are all completely contrived.  Theres no reason why the Crucible does x or y, and it's abilities seem quite contradictory.  You can play the special pleading game about why the Crucible does x or y, but can't do z all day, but the fact is that the Crucible doesn't have to kill the Geth/EDI.  I don't want to argue the mechanics of a fictional device that operates on fictional principles.  Why the writers chose to kill them off is beyond me, but it probably had something to do with the writers having some sort misconcieved notion that the Destroy ending needed a dire cost of some sort.  Bull****.  It's a contrivance and having to make a choice based on the effects of a fictional device that could theoretically do anything they want it to do is a completely and utterly meaningless choice.

I guess they wanted to re-create Drew's vision of very difficult choises regarding life and stuff. Perhaps they wanted people to stop for a second and weight their choises, so consequences of choises had to be huge.

Modifié par ZLurps, 22 juillet 2012 - 07:54 .

[chemiclord]

Destroy DID destroy the Mass Relays initially...

... then fans completely lost their **** over it and Bioware retconned the whole thing.

[ZLurps]

dreman9999 wrote...

elitehunter34 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
If the machanics of a computer is damaged, What ever info that's on it is gone. it's the same thing as what your stating.

Look Dreman, if you are saying that it is some kind of anti ai weapon, fine, but it is not an emp weapon.

The Crucible's effects are all completely contrived.  Theres no reason why the Crucible does x or y, and it's abilities seem quite contradictory.  You can play the special pleading game about why the Crucible does x or y, but can't do z all day, but the fact is that the Crucible doesn't have to kill the Geth/EDI.  I don't want to argue the mechanics of a fictional device that operates on fictional principles.  Why the writers chose to kill them off is beyond me, but it probably had something to do with the writers having some sort misconcieved notion that the Destroy ending needed a dire cost of some sort.  Bull****.  It's a contrivance and having to make a choice based on the effects of a fictional device that could theoretically do anything they want it to do is a completely and utterly meaningless choice.

No, It makes sense. AI are tech and depend on tech and programing to be alive. If you have a weapon the effect tech, how does it not effect and kill AI's?
It's not hard to uderstand why it only attacks AI's with emps in excictance.
Saying that a weapon that effect tech kills off AI's maked no sense is like saying poison killing of organics makesno sense.

Not every AI has to be on magnetic media, no single poison kills all organics, on earth maybe but there are other planets and environments. How it operates is Space Magic, but it's needed to make story work like it is. It's like manned space crafts, mass effect relays, etc. they need to be there to make the story work,

Modifié par ZLurps, 22 juillet 2012 - 08:00 .

[elitehunter34]

dreman9999 wrote...
No, It makes sense. AI are tech and depend on tech and programing to be alive. If you have a weapon the effect tech, how does it not effect and kill AI's?
It's not hard to uderstand why it only attacks AI's with emps in excictance.
Saying that a weapon that effect tech kills off AI's maked no sense is like saying poison killing of organics makesno sense.

Dreman where did I say it doesn't make sense in my post?  Please answer me.  Stop your damn strawmanning.  I'm not saying "it" doesn't make sense, whatever "it" is.  I'm saying theres no good reason to kill the Geth and EDI in destroy. The writers could have easily said that the Crucible is precise and only targets Reapers, and no one would have batted an eye at that.  I'm not going argue the mechanics of a fictional device that operates on fictional principles.

[AresKeith]

@dreman9999 now your just making things up to make yourself right

[dreman9999]

AresKeith wrote...

@dreman9999 now your just making things up to make yourself right

Machines doing what they are programed to do is making stuff up?

What do you think the catalyst meant with his fire reference?

[Dessalines]

dreman9999 wrote...

Dessalines wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Dessalines wrote...

I am still confused with the fact that if the Crucible is just a powersource, than shouldn't you be able to go the upper levels of the Citadel and be able to destroy, control, synthesize, but on a limited scope.
I cannot believe that the IM's plan was to wait for the alliances forces who he was attacking to build the Crucible, attatched it, and then take use it to control the Reapers. So basically his entire plan was centered around taking control of a device of the people that he and the Reapers were attacking. How was he going to control the Reapers if the Crucible did not get built?

He was indoctrinated...
He was convinced he was fighting the Reapers, but he was just doing what they wanted him to do...

1. TIM's plan was not to stop the crucible. It was to slow down it's production till he learned how or it the reapers could be controled.

2.TIM's plan take the crucible at the last moment as it's attached. Since he did not have the full info of the crucible, he let you build it for him to take later. 

He had no way of knowing that it would be finished.   He didn't even know if the Crucible would make it to being attatched to the Citadel; in fact, it is not like he shares with you the information about the Catalyst. It is not like this was his master plan. He doesn't even know if you are able to get passed Lei Kang to tell the fleet about the Catalyst.

Of couse he knew it would be finished. That why he had his forced go after the final peice.
His orginal plan was the he was going to build the crucible withhis resourced. That's why he had EDA try and take the info on the crucible. Everything he done afterwas only because he did not have the data on the crucible. He took the prothean vi just to slow us down. If he want to stop the crucible project, he would of destoryed the the prothean vi and it data. Instead he left it for us to find. This was on perpose.

So what is the the IM knew that you would build the Crucible; eventhough, he didn't get the data about how to build the Crucible. He knew you would be able to untie and gathered all the resources to built the Crucible; eventhough, he and the Reapers were attacking you and allied forces at the time.  He knew you would find out where his base was located, attacked it, and escape with the information. He knew the alliances would be able to reached the Citadel to attatched the Crucible; eventhough, they were outnumbered. So basically, you think that IM had the ability to see into the future.

[AlanC9]

chemiclord wrote...

Destroy DID destroy the Mass Relays initially...

... then fans completely lost their **** over it and Bioware retconned the whole thing.

I regret that. The ME galaxy would have been a lot more interesting with the various clusters developing more or less independently.

[AlanC9]

elitehunter34 wrote...
I'm saying theres no good reason to kill the Geth and EDI in destroy. The writers could have easily said that the Crucible is precise and only targets Reapers, and no one would have batted an eye at that.  I'm not going argue the mechanics of a fictional device that operates on fictional principles.

OK, so the argument is that Destroy should have been written to be cost-free?

If so, I disagree. That would just make the final choice a no-brainer. Letting the player always have an easy out is a bad thing about Bio's style, and shouldn't be elevated to a design principle.

Modifié par AlanC9, 22 juillet 2012 - 08:09 .

[ZLurps]

elitehunter34 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
No, It makes sense. AI are tech and depend on tech and programing to be alive. If you have a weapon the effect tech, how does it not effect and kill AI's?
It's not hard to uderstand why it only attacks AI's with emps in excictance.
Saying that a weapon that effect tech kills off AI's maked no sense is like saying poison killing of organics makesno sense.

Dreman where did I say it doesn't make sense in my post?  Please answer me.  Stop your damn strawmanning.  I'm not saying "it" doesn't make sense, whatever "it" is.  I'm saying theres no good reason to kill the Geth and EDI in destroy. The writers could have easily said that the Crucible is precise and only targets Reapers, and no one would have batted an eye at that.  I'm not going argue the mechanics of a fictional device that operates on fictional principles.

It's already established in ME lore way before ME3 came out. Reaper nanides (nano machines). It were been very easy for writers to make "pulse" to disable them. However, they intentionally wanted to player in different kind of situation and for that such an easy solution wasn't viable.

Modifié par ZLurps, 22 juillet 2012 - 08:09 .