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[jillabender]

As those who've chatted with me on these forums may know, the City Elf origin is my favourite background story in DA:O, and I've played through it numerous times. For a while, I went through a period when I was very frustrated by Valendrian.

I never blamed him for not rousing the whole Alienage to storm the Arl's estate – I can respect that for a leader responsible for protecting all of his people, it was probably the right call.

But his dialogue when my City Elf emerged after fighting her way to freedom, and after she was recruited by Duncan, frustrated me. I had been expecting him to say something along the lines of "I'm sorry for what you went through," or "I'm sorry we couldn't do more to help you," and I interpreted the lack of such to mean that he blamed my City Elf for what had happened – which seemed very unfair to me, to say the least.

However, after playing through the City Elf Origin again recently, I've revised my opinion of Valendrian. I no longer see him as lacking concern for the City Elf and the other kidnapped women – after all, his first words when they emerge are "Has Shianni been hurt?",  and he's obviously saddened when he learns that one of the bridesmaids was killed. 

I also no longer interpret his dialogue once the City Elf has been recruited to mean that he blames her for what happened. After playing through that conversation again choosing the option "There's a whole world out there, you know," his response,

"I know; it only saddens me that it has taken this for you to find it," strikes me as similar to Cyrion's line:

"If this is what the Maker has planned for you, then I guess it's for the best. […] I just wish there was another way."

Like Cyrion, Valendrian seems to me to be expressing a combination of pride and regret. 

So, after playing through the City Elf origin again, Valendrian now strikes me as both sad and dignified – a leader who, like Duncan, recognizes, in Riordan's words, "what an ugly choice it is to let the few be sacrificed to protect the many."

So, I'm curious to hear other people's feelings about Valendrian. What do your City Elves think of him, and are their impressions different from yours as the player? Have your opinions of him changed at all in the course of your playthroughs?

Modifié par jillabender, 22 juillet 2012 - 04:21 .

[Wulfram]

In the male version of the origin, it appears he's pretty supportive of the PC trying the rescue.

On the other hand you learn that he moved the wedding forward to try and stop you joining the Wardens, which wouldn't endear him much to some of my characters.

[jillabender]

 

Wulfram wrote…

In the male version of the origin, it appears he's pretty supportive of the PC trying the rescue.
On the other hand you learn that he moved the wedding forward to try and stop you joining the Wardens, which wouldn't endear him much to some of my characters.

Very true! It's been a while since I played as a male City Elf, but I do like the added perspective that it provides to the origin. As someone pointed out in another thread, the idea of the male City Elf storming the estate to rescue his betrothed is very badass, and reminiscent of Braveheart – in a good way. 

Modifié par jillabender, 22 juillet 2012 - 07:37 .

[Dintonta]

I know exacly what you mean!
There is something a bit cooling in his way to answer. No comfort, not showing direct concern for the warden-recruit. But I'm not  sure he was like Cyrion. Cyrion is brokenhearted and he just do whatever little he can to hide it before breaking into tears (if you speak him twice that's what he let understand).
I thought that Valendrian saw the whole group of young elves as children, his own children, with the warden-recruit being his elder one.
I thought his apparent lack of empathy toward her was actually a sign of a greater trust into her strenght and maturity. (It is to her he asks what really happened and how the others fare.)
If you play through another origin and you visit his home after you freed him from the slavers, and you ask him how the Alienage will go through the plague now, he answers (rather calmly) that the elves will endure as they always did. I think his frail apparence and his rather soft manners may hide how much he values resilience.
He try to 'harden' a bit the warden-recruit, I think.
And, also, I thought that despite his strong friendship with Duncan, he represents an opposite view upon life.
He is the guy who, in his heart, is convinced that the ultimately ethical way is to give the other cheek, even if he acknowledge self-defense. Duncan, on the other hand is the guy of the never-ending fight.
Even if he has the greatest respect for the Grey Wardens' role, I think he can't help but feel a little uncomfortable seeing that Duncan's view on life will replace the one he wanted to teach to his first apprentice, even if it's for a noble purpose. ("...I guess, Duncan found his recruit after all...")
In a way, he is the same sort of silent type than Sten (silence and not showing emotion is a sign of confidence and respect for the other, not distance.)
And since I always loved those types...

[jillabender]

Dintonta wrote…

I thought that Valendrian saw the whole group of young elves as children, his own children, with the warden-recruit being his elder one.
I thought his apparent lack of empathy toward her was actually a sign of a greater trust into her strenght and maturity. (It is to her he asks what really happened and how the others fare.)

[…]

In a way, he is the same sort of silent type than Sten (silence and not showing emotion is a sign of confidence and respect for the other, not distance.)

That's a great observation! I like the parallel you make between him and Sten – I hadn't thought of it quite that way, but I think you're right. It makes sense to me to think of him as responding the way he does to the City Elf to avoid coddling or patronizing him or her, and to "harden" him or her, as you say. Seen that way, his response makes sense as a way of showing that he trusts the City Elf to take responsibility for his or her actions.

Dintonta wrote…

He is the guy who, in his heart, is convinced that the ultimately ethical way is to give the other cheek, even if he acknowledge self-defense. Duncan, on the other hand is the guy of the never-ending fight.
Even if he has the greatest respect for the Grey Wardens' role, I think he can't help but feel a little uncomfortable seeing that Duncan's view on life will replace the one he wanted to teach to his first apprentice, even if it's for a noble purpose. ("...I guess, Duncan found his recruit after all...")

Very well put – I see Valendrian as a pacifist, as well. To me, he seems like a very principled man – someone who recognizes that every choice, including pacifism, has a cost. As you point out, it's understandable that he would feel uncomfortable about the City Elf leaving that pacifist path behind, even if he respects that decision.

Modifié par jillabender, 23 juillet 2012 - 12:12 .

[jillabender]

Faerunner wrote...

I never interpreted Valendrian's words to mean he blamed the CE for what happened. The guy just always seemed somber and worn out from his job. He has the unenviable task of being in charge of an alienage full of poverty, the well-being of his people when humans constantly spit on them, and a sort of "ambassador" between elves and humans when there is so much hatred, prejudice, subjugation, hate crimes, et cetera between the two.

[...]

I never interpreted his "What happened?' to mean "Now we're in trouble and it's all your fault," I interpreted it to mean, "I need to know what happened so we can deal with the consequences as they occur." The guy is swift, sufficient, and pragmatic. He'll deal with the problem now and express sympathy and regret over it later.

Very well said – all of the reasons you've mentioned are things that also led me to revise my opinion of Valendrian.

Modifié par jillabender, 26 juillet 2012 - 09:53 .

[Endurium]

You might hate me for this: my recent dark warden, a human mage no less, let the slavers take Valendrian and the other captured elves, in a deal for proof of Loghain's involvement. I then lied to Shianni about their whereabouts.

I normally don't do that, and take pleasure in helping Valendrian. However, after dealing with the Dalish and the huge chips they carry on their shoulders, my dark warden was anti-elf by the time I got to the Alienage.

Modifié par Endurium, 26 juillet 2012 - 09:46 .

[jillabender]

Endurium wrote…

You might hate me for this: my recent dark warden, a human mage no less, let the slavers take Valendrian and the other captured elves, in a deal for proof of Loghain's involvement. I then lied to Shianni about their whereabouts.

Hehe… that's pretty twisted! I can see the appeal of playing a playing a character who's a rotten son-of-a-***** like that, but I don't think I could ever bring myself to do it!

Out of curiosity, have you ever played through the game as a City Elf who took Vaughan's bribe? That's another thing I've never been able to bring myself to try.

Modifié par jillabender, 26 juillet 2012 - 10:02 .

[Endurium]

jillabender wrote...

Out of curiosity, have you ever played through the game as a City Elf who took Vaughan's bribe? That's another thing I've never been able to bring myself to try.

Oooh, no I haven't. It's a good idea for a "Falling Down" sort of City Elf character though.

[tklivory]

@ jillabender - I did, once - with a character who blamed his father for his mother's death, hated that he had to get married (the love of his life was Taeodor's brother, which is why said brother ran away), blamed Shianni for getting Vaughan angry, and in general just didn't give two hoots about anybody by the time he met up with Vaughan in the Arl's estate. Also freed Vaughan for a bribe later in the game, too (oh, and killed Loghain after promising to Anora he wouldn't). He became the power behind the throne with unhardened Alistair as a puppet king.

It was an interesting playthrough, and one of my few non-rogues for an elf.

[jillabender]

tklivory wrote…

@ jillabender - I did, once - with a character who blamed his father for his mother's death, hated that he had to get married (the love of his life was Taeodor's brother, which is why said brother ran away), blamed Shianni for getting Vaughan angry, and in general just didn't give two hoots about anybody by the time he met up with Vaughan in the Arl's estate. Also freed Vaughan for a bribe later in the game, too (oh, and killed Loghain after promising to Anora he wouldn't). He became the power behind the throne with unhardened Alistair as a puppet king.

It was an interesting playthrough, and one of my few non-rogues for an elf.

Wow… that sounds like a really interesting idea for a character! Do you have his story written somewhere? If you do, I'd love to read it!

Modifié par jillabender, 27 juillet 2012 - 12:34 .

[tklivory]

@ jillabender - Hmmm, I'll see if I can dig up at least a piccie of him, but most of my writing of him was character notes, not in an official story... Hmmm... *strokes chin*

[jillabender]

tklivory wrote…

@ jillabender - Hmmm, I'll see if I can dig up at least a piccie of him, but most of my writing of him was character notes, not in an official story... Hmmm... *strokes chin*

If you were to write that story, I would definitely read it! ^__^