228 réponses à ce sujet

[Hulk Hsieh]

death_for_sale wrote...
So carry one or the other, every class is different. The Demolisher can carry two heavy weapons and still cause tech bursts or fire explosions almost at will, does this mean that all of the other engineers are no longer good?

I think you are changing the topic form that Destroyer destroys other soldiers with the chosen weapons.

Destroyer + Typhoon/Piranha is a too convenient combination designed by Bioware.
The class and the weapons are made with each other in mind and the synergy is just uncomparable by other class/weapon combination. I think this is what they want to do all the way, and the result is just a little more than they intended.

[Emissary of the Collectors]

GreyWarden36 wrote...

Yes, because it's all about outscoring people in you're team. Go back CoD, kid.

Teamwork people...not competition

[St3v3H]

this thread makes me laugh, just enjoy playing as a team and if one or 2 of your teammates score higher than you so what?

[Transairion]

so instead of using the stopwatch on how fast the destroyers take down an atlas, find something else to kill

This reminded me to point out something: You know why the Typhoon can kill an Atlas so fast? It's cause the Atlas is the size of a barn so every single Typhoon bullet will hit, unless your aim is just horrendous. And the Typhoon has a lot of heavy-hitting bullets, for once. You can pretty much do the same, but slower, with a Revenant. So hitting all of  the bullets of the Revenant onto an Atlas and killing it fast equals OP, let's nerf the Revenant!

Seriously, the Revenant WAS as good as the Typhoon in ME2. ME3 butchered it, finally we see a near-return of its glory in the secret-lovechild of lil' Typhoon, yet cause it's in MP NERF! Not like Soldiers suck ass unless you have a seriously postive cooldown: stop taking good things away from the guys who were nerfed the hardest in the move. You lot got +200% cooldown on your Adepts, give the Combat specialists something good for once...

Modifié par Transairion, 23 juillet 2012 - 10:06 .

[BellaStrega]

Blind2Society wrote...

Drake Malice wrote...

It doesnt outclass anything

Actually, it outclasses everything concerning the main objective (killing the enemy as quickly as possible). 7x5 grenades, accuracy bonus, damage bonus, RoF bonus, ammo bonus, an auto turret, AoE heavy melee. Come now, the class is better at killing things than any other. Biotic Explosion? Hah, everything's dead before you can even think to release your detonater.

But, again, the problem is that BioWare will nerf the powerful rather than buff the less powerful.

If all of the above is accurate, how can you honestly suggest that nerfing it would be a problem? If all the classes are so powerful they melt everything virtually instantly, the game is boring. This is one (of many) reasons people don't like being on teams with missile glitchers. For ME3 multiplayer to remain entertaining, the potential for a challenge needs to be present. Logically, there is no choice but to reduce the OP class' power level.

[Hulk Hsieh]

Blind2Society wrote...

Actually, it outclasses everything concerning the main objective (killing the enemy as quickly as possible). 7x5 grenades, accuracy bonus, damage bonus, RoF bonus, ammo bonus, an auto turret, AoE heavy melee. Come now, the class is better at killing things than any other. Biotic Explosion? Hah, everything's dead before you can even think to release your detonater.

But, again, the problem is that BioWare will nerf the powerful rather than buff the less powerful.

If the 6th evolution of passive line gives only 10% weapon damage and the whole passive line gives 27.5%, giving another "passive line" 30% weapon damage along with a lot of other bonus might not be a good idea in the beginning. 

[Blind2Society]

BellaStrega wrote...

If all of the above is accurate, how can you honestly suggest that nerfing it would be a problem? If all the classes are so powerful they melt everything virtually instantly, the game is boring. This is one (of many) reasons people don't like being on teams with missile glitchers. For ME3 multiplayer to remain entertaining, the potential for a challenge needs to be present. Logically, there is no choice but to reduce the OP class' power level.

You are correct and that is why I'm a bit on the fence about it myself. I have a ton of fun with the class but when don't pick the class and there are no enemies left to kill it is really boring.

[Blind2Society]

Double post but I didn't want this misconstrued as a response to Bella.

I looked back at the OP and funny enough, there was no mention of score at all. Seems most of the people posting in this thread missed that. It's not about score, it's about having fun killing **** in different ways. And when everything is dead before you get a chance the game is no longer fun.

[Core_Commander]

Blind2Society wrote...

But, again, the problem is that BioWare will nerf the powerful rather than buff the less powerful.

There has been what, 4 times more buffs then nerfs? 5?

Sometimes you can't just bring everyone to "kill atlases in one clip" level and still have any gameplay left rather than whack-a-mole-get-credits-repeat in your game, but for the most part BW has been buffing stuff.

Modifié par Core_Commander, 23 juillet 2012 - 10:14 .

[bob2.0]

What BW will do is ultimately nerf the Destroyer, the Typhoon and the Piranha into the ****ing ground.
For how dare a lowly, peasant soldier upset the status quo.

[Stardusk]

death_for_sale wrote...

Hulk Hsieh wrote...

I was just counting Devastator mode, since other soldiers gets the same passive/gears, too.
Devasrator gives you 130% damage and 140% speed, which, when multiplied, is 182%.

Let's look at this a bit closer then.

Phaeston

RoF(WPN) - 10 Rounds per Second (RPS)
Damage(Base) - 68.6

10 x 68.6 = 686 DPS(Base)

Turian Soldier RoF increase from MM - 70%

10 x 1.70 = 17

68.6 x 17 = 1166.2

Destroyer RoF increase - 40%

10 x 1.4 = 14

Destroyer DPS increase from max Devastator - 30%

68.6 x 1.30 = 89.18

RoF increase x DPS increase

14 x 89.18 = 1248.5

1248.5 - 1166.2 = 82.3

So, 82.3 points of damage more per second, a 6.5% difference in DPS. Now, lets look at something else the Turian Soldier has, a 20% boost to DPS that also does a chunk of damage, Prox mine.

68.6 x 1.20 = 82.32

RoF increase x DPS increase

17 x 82.32 = 1399.44

1399.44 - 1248.5 = 150.94

Ah, 150.94 more damage per second than Devastator mode, an 11% difference in DPS.

Now I realize that this number will change depending on the base RoF of a weapon, but there are side items to each class that make them comparable. The numbers and percentages are so small that you can't say that Devastator mode is overpowered vs. MM or AR.

If your next comment is that the Destroyer gets grenades, we can look at the fact that all of the other soldiers get some type of grenade power, except the Turian and Vorcha, both of whom get a rechargable power that either boosts damage or does specific extra damage to armor.

Turian Marksman provides 50% ROF, not 70%. You should correct that.

[Senshirou]

12 hours ago and 7 pages........ amazing

[Blind2Society]

Core_Commander wrote...

Blind2Society wrote...

But, again, the problem is that BioWare will nerf the powerful rather than buff the less powerful.

There has been what, 4 times more buffs then nerfs? 5?

So you are trying to say, that if BioWare sees this thread and feels the destroyer is overpowered, they are going to buff the other classes to match rather than nerf the destroyer?

If not than I have no idea how your comment relates to what I said given the context.

As for the second part of your post, that is why I'm on the fence about the whole situation. I love the destroyer when I play it but I hate there being nothing left to kill when I don't and someone else does.

I don't really want the destroyer nerfed and there are (very) many characters/powers/weapons that I feel need buffs but I also don't really want the game to be to easy. It's a fine line to walk and I'm on the fence.

[December Man]

Senshirou wrote...

12 hours ago and 7 pages........ amazing

I can't believe it either.

[Hexi-decimal]

I have played with lots of destroyers before, really good ones, and I rarely have issues with getting shots in myself on gold or plat. Silver and obviously bronze are a different story. But when I do find it hard to get those shots in, I just support. Strip shields, debuff, and protect their flanks.

I won't lie, I feel like the destroyer is quite powerful, but I wouldn't say OP. Not quite yet. My best score is still easily on my SI. I know I know score means nothing etc etc.

Although I can do things on this class that my SI was not able to do, like I carried a gold earlier, which I have never done, and I am kinda poop at this game soooooo, who knows.

Either way, my nerfing days are behind me. I'd much rather buff, and add yet another difficulty level!! Perhaps instead of giving the bad guys simply more health (though do that too) they get some updated abilities. Like phantoms lashing you to them and crap like that!

[Mendelevosa]

So let me get this straight. The OP is complaining that two SKILLED players controlling two WEAPON and KILLING specialization character took many kills from a SUPPORT character?

Not to mention that you are complaining about finding two capable randons, who only appear once in a blue moon.

Why must everyone think that the only purpose for every character is to rack up a ton of kills?

It's simple: If you don't want to get killing opprotunities taken away from you so often, then play a different character.

On a side note, having the Destroyer with a level 10 piranha and typhoon doesn't automatically make someone effective. Skill has to have some factor in it.

Modifié par Mendelevosa, 23 juillet 2012 - 10:37 .

[Blind2Society]

Mendelevosa wrote...

Why must everyone think that the only purpose for every character is to rack up a ton of kills?

Because killing is what this game is about and what is fun about the game. Take away killing the enemy from the game and what is left? Oh yes, a game with no point that no one plays.

[Core_Commander]

Blind2Society wrote...

Core_Commander wrote...

Blind2Society wrote...

But, again, the problem is that BioWare will nerf the powerful rather than buff the less powerful.

There has been what, 4 times more buffs then nerfs? 5?

So you are trying to say, that if BioWare sees this thread and feels the destroyer is overpowered, they are going to buff the other classes to match rather than nerf the destroyer?

If not than I have no idea how your comment relates to what I said given the context.

I mean that Bioware will rather buff the less powerful than nerf the powerful, but there are limits to how much power can be allowed and still keep the satisfying gaming experience. Nerfing is an exception, not the rule - but the Destoyer may just warrant one.

[Blind2Society]

Core_Commander wrote...

I mean that Bioware will rather buff the less powerful than nerf the powerful, but there are limits to how much power can be allowed and still keep the satisfying gaming experience. Nerfing is an exception, not the rule - but the Destoyer may just warrant one.

I look at the infiltrator as evidence that what you said before the first comma is worng. The rest however, I agree.

[WandererRTF]

Blind2Society wrote...

Mendelevosa wrote...

Why must everyone think that the only purpose for every character is to rack up a ton of kills?

Because killing is what this game is about and what is fun about the game. Take away killing the enemy from the game and what is left? Oh yes, a game with no point that no one plays.

Pretty much so.

To be honest I'm not sure how bad/good the Destroyer & Typhoon combo is and until i get to try it out first hand i won't say that it would be OP. It is however a powerful combination. Though from personal experience the Devastator mode grants somewhat too good bonuses for so little penalties - not perhaps compared to the challenge offered in the game but when compared against other playable classes.

[JiceDuresh]

Blind2Society wrote...
I look at the infiltrator as evidence that what you said before the first comma is worng. The rest however, I agree.

There's a difference between buffing  a few guns to make them par and having to buff every single other class to get it on par.  Infiltrator warrented it just as much as the Destroyer does. Nerfing sucks, but sometimes it's the only reasonable choice you can expect designers to make.

[Blind2Society]

For me it's not destroyer + typhoon, it's multi-frag. There's nothing left to kill after multi-frag, and when there is nothing to kill, the game gets boring.

On the flip side though, it is crazy satisfying to send out two multi-frags and kill all those pesky marauders at once.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

You lot got +200% cooldown on your Adepts, give the Combat specialists something good for once...

Which does not hold a candle to weapons + weapon buffs from equipment.

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 23 juillet 2012 - 10:47 .

[Hulk Hsieh]

Blind2Society wrote...
Because killing is what this game is about and what is fun about the game. Take away killing the enemy from the game and what is left? Oh yes, a game with no point that no one plays.

Well said.
Honestly the missions, the healing, the ammo replenish parts are just not as fun as the killing.

[Transairion]

Because killing is what this game is about and what is fun about the game. Take away killing the enemy from the game and what is left? Oh yes, a game with no point that no one plays.

Even with two impossibly-highly skilled Destroyer Typhooners, I find it literally impossible that the OP found NO OTHER ENEMIES to fight. The only way that could happen is if he literally walked along behind them, throwing nades at what they were already shooting at and getting a ton of assists. There's stuff to kill all over the place, only Bronze could you say otherwise and that's freaking Bronze.

Need to know what he did, otherwise it's simply a case of not looking for a fight while they did. Setting up camp as a Demolisher on Silver won't be that interesting no matter you teammates, because on that difficulty you can go to the fight rather than pick a nice spot to hunker down.

Besides this is Silver, any nadespam class that is highly skilled can probably clear the ENTIRE spawn alone (enough people brag about being able to do so with Drell), so a strong class with dominant Silver period. And how often do those dominant classes actually play and "hard carry" their team? Not often...

Which does not hold a candle to weapons + weapon buffs from equipment.

 
You must be playing Battlefield 3 then, since every Biotic-spam Gold I've ever played went twice or three times as fast as any classes more focused on grenades/shooting could do it.

Unless you think +15% Assault Rifle Gear > 65%+ racial power bonus (with further mods, Gear and whatever else stacked on). Powers > weapons by a massive margin, unless you're trying to play this Co-Op game mode by yourself... if you're doing that why play at all?

Modifié par Transairion, 23 juillet 2012 - 10:52 .