228 réponses à ce sujet

[Mendelevosa]

Blind2Society wrote...

Mendelevosa wrote...

Why must everyone think that the only purpose for every character is to rack up a ton of kills?

Because killing is what this game is about and what is fun about the game. Take away killing the enemy from the game and what is left? Oh yes, a game with no point that no one plays.

Seems like you missed my point. Some characters are more efficient killers than others. Some classes can offer great supportive roles at the cost of lethality, though some support characters can dish out the can of whoop-ass. I sometimes play as the N7 Paladin and although I may not get a heaping number of kills, I still enjoy his abilities to take huge amounts of damage, draw aggro away from players, and freeze multiple targets for my TEAM to crush them. Also, I have gotten many kills while playing with competent players. Maybe the OP was just using the Demolisher wrong?

Not "everyone" wants to play as tanky killing machines. In the OP's case, he should have known that a supportive class wouldn't have gotten many kils like the Destroyers. And the reason why the two Destroyers were dominating was just because they have good weapons and powers. The players also had SKILL. I could have thrown on the same loadout as those Destroyers and I still probably wouldn't have gotten anywhere near the same amount of kills. And if skill was a factor, then maybe the OP isn't that much of a good player compared to the two he encountered.

Edit: Also, your whole point about killing being the only thing to do in this game? I guess you forgot about capping objectives, reviving teammates and giving damage boosts to them. The OP could hve easiy done those things, but no. He complains that since he doesn't get any kills, there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING LEFT TO DO AT ALL TO MAKE HIMSELF USEFUL.

But since the entire game's purpose is about killing, then we might as well remove all the objectives and make the focus of every single wave about killing. Since, you know, they require something else other than destroying enemies.

Modifié par Mendelevosa, 23 juillet 2012 - 11:12 .

[Core_Commander]

Blind2Society wrote...

Core_Commander wrote...

I mean that Bioware will rather buff the less powerful than nerf the powerful, but there are limits to how much power can be allowed and still keep the satisfying gaming experience. Nerfing is an exception, not the rule - but the Destoyer may just warrant one.

I look at the infiltrator as evidence that what you said before the first comma is worng. The rest however, I agree.

How is it wrong, I said RATHER buff than nerf, not EXCLUSIVELY buff and NEVER nerf. That means that sometimes nerfs will happen, although buffing is preferred. Heck, the Fagnan said something like that himself.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

 
You must be playing Battlefield 3 then, since every Biotic-spam Gold I've ever played went twice or three times as fast as any classes more focused on grenades/shooting could do it.

Unless you think +15% Assault Rifle Gear > 65%+ racial power bonus (with further mods, Gear and whatever else stacked on). Powers > weapons by a massive margin, unless you're trying to play this Co-Op game mode by yourself... if you're doing that why play at all?

Saying "B...b..b.....but if you get three other biotics on your squad you could kill as fast as my destroyer!" only underlines the need for balancing.

[Knight Isaiah]

Juice Tin wrote...

So you played one game with two destroyers doing what they are supposed to do and now you felt compelled to complain about it? One game out of how many? Were you "locked" into playing with them for some reason that you couldn't find another lobby?

I am so sick of reading people complaining about "overpowered" classes or weapons. "Oh it's no fun blah blah blah, I'm such a baby, blah blah blah..." If they were mowing things down so much and you had nothing to kill, why not do what others have said and resupply, pick them up when they went down, gotten devices or helped with objectives, or whatever else needed to be done. Nope, instead you rage quit like a little you-know-what because you couldn't kill anything. TEAMWORK means working as a TEAM. Just because two people were doing all the killing doesn't mean you couldn't help with EVERYTHING ELSE.

Grow up or play another game. It's as simple as that.

This.

[Dhaval]

Blind2Society wrote...


Yes, the class is crazy powerful especially when compared to almost all other classes. But the problem is, we all know exactly what BioWare would do about such a statement. They would nerf the powerful class rather than buff the less powerful classes to be able to compete. It's a crying, F'n shame.

I release a smash and it drops the shields of 1 or 2 marauders, they release a couple grenades and it clears the room of 4 +. There is a disparity there (and in a lot of other situations as well) but, again, BioWare would go the complete wrong way about fixing it. And that, I believe, is why people get upset about threads like these.

There needs to be a balance. Nerfing the powerful can be just as necessary as buffing the less powerful. Honestly, them nerfing the more powerful while not buffing the less powerful is much preferable to the other way around.

If Bioware just repeatedly buffs lesser characters to be on par with the good ones, the game gets too easy. Power creep sets in, and then you can faceroll your way through higher difficulties. Which is basically what has already happened to this game.

Modifié par Dhaval, 23 juillet 2012 - 11:03 .

[Transairion]

Saying "B...b..b.....but if you get three other biotics on your squad you could kill as fast as my destroyer!" only underlines the need for balancing.

Ooooh, your saying 1 Destroyer can do it that fast, not 4 Destroyers? Alright then, I'll need a video since I can't suspend my disbelief that far to believe 1 Destroyer can kill every single enemy unit faster than 4 biotics can using powers, or 4 anyone's who are actually trying to win.

I hardly even see gun-focused classes above Silver, but you're convinced the Destroyer is so gosh-darn-OP he can solo Gold or Plat in the blink of an eye? Okaaaaaaaaaaay, evidence please.

Modifié par Transairion, 23 juillet 2012 - 11:11 .

[Blind2Society]

Core_Commander wrote...

How is it wrong, I said RATHER buff than nerf, not EXCLUSIVELY buff and NEVER nerf. That means that sometimes nerfs will happen, although buffing is preferred. Heck, the Fagnan said something like that himself.

Just wrong in the sense that they would nerf the powerful rather than buff the less powerful. Which is why I feel everyone got upset when they read this thread. They fear that Bioware sees the OP saying the destroyer is crazy powerful they will nerf it rather than make other classes stronger.

[Pitznik]

Give it some time, it is still pretty fresh. If it's op, it should be pretty obvious soon.

[Blind2Society]

Dhaval wrote...

There needs to be a balance. Nerfing the powerful can be just as necessary as buffing the less powerful. Honestly, them nerfing the more powerful while not buffing the less powerful is much preferable to the other way around.

If Bioware just repeatedly buffs lesser characters to be on par with the good ones, the game gets too easy. Power creep sets in, and then you can faceroll your way through higher difficulties. Which is basically what has already happened to this game.

I see your point, and you can read my later posts to see that I am conflicted about this.

However, I disagree completely with your last sentence. I don't faceroll through the higher difficulties in this game and I would imagine most others don't either. There will always be an elite group for every game but games should never be balanced around them regardless of the fact that all elite players think they should be. Yes, things like platinum and the like should be added for them but the game itself shouldn't be made to fit them and leave everyone else to rip their hair out.

[PrebuiltTub]

Krade2k20 wrote...

Patreus wrote...

GGW KillerTiger wrote...

December Man wrote...
N7 Typhoon X

Either spent a lot of money or need to go out for fresh air

It's not hard to earn credits. You sound like a bronze player when you say this.

You're right. It's not hard to earn credits. It is, however, basically impossible to max out a UR in less than a week without dropping a ridiculous amount of REAL money.

Your wrong. I have a friend with a tyohoon x who plays no more than I do anymore, difference is, he had all UR"s maxxed before dlc released, so once it did, all UR cards HAD to be tyohoon. learn how the store works and stop making accusations

[Misfiring]

December Man wrote...

Glacier Gold Cerberus. Both of them had N7 Piranha X and N7 Typhoon X. They were mowing down Atlases like they were Assault Troopers. Really, one Atlas was gone within no more than 5 seconds. The gap in DPS was so huge, at first I thought they were cheating. 

How is that fun? I know this kind of DPS is required for Platinum, but how on earth is any class supposed to compete with that? I left after the 6th wave. I know I could've remained and earned easy 70k credits, but this was just no fun. I was a Demolisher and I felt totally useless. It's all because of Platinum. If this DPS weren't required to finish the damn thing...

Well, first of all, its TYPHOON X. Even Typhoon 1 mows them down fast enough, let alone two lvl X. Typhoon is anti-heavy thus its right that they mow down atlases.

Second, if you care about killing then play a vanguard or soldier or infiltrator. Don't go play a support class and then complaining about not killing anything. 

Third, there's no competition. All gets basically the same credits and exp. Scores are pointless. All classes has their use besides killing things. 

Forth, what Platinum requires is skill and teamwork. No point having everything X and get killed at wave 1, alone, far far away from everybody else.

[Knight Isaiah]

Cheesylover wrote...

:whistle:What a whiner?

Pick a class you're better at, pick a class to support the destroyers or better yet, pick an infiltrator and contribute with an even high damage bonus than they get?

You could go AA and stasis the enemies they'll struggle with, like swarms of phantoms.

You could go Quarian infiltrator and debuff targets so they drop quicker and help your team out with damage from cloak too.

You could go demolisher and keep the destroyers stocked with ammo while using grenades to sort out the trash enemies.

You could go engineer and get troubloesome enemies like banshees to concentrate on your turret or decoy while the destroyers do their destroying.

You could go duration infil and keep your team safe while performing the trickier objectives.

You could go destroyer and stop moaning?

You could go geth infiltrator, salarian infiltrator, Turian Soldier, phoenix adept or n7 slayer and realise there are some other great damage dealers in the game and moaning about a new, viable class is likely to ruin it.

[Oggy666]

December Man wrote...

Glacier Gold Cerberus. Both of them had N7 Piranha X and N7 Typhoon X. They were mowing down Atlases like they were Assault Troopers. Really, one Atlas was gone within no more than 5 seconds. The gap in DPS was so huge, at first I thought they were cheating. 

How is that fun? I know this kind of DPS is required for Platinum, but how on earth is any class supposed to compete with that? I left after the 6th wave. I know I could've remained and earned easy 70k credits, but this was just no fun. I was a Demolisher and I felt totally useless. It's all because of Platinum. If this DPS weren't required to finish the damn thing...

If you cannot kill with demolisher, than its something wrong with your skills. Probably you wouldn't kill a half of what they did even with their loadout and character. Complaining about 2 top loaded-equipped characters working together...invalid, you should've been able to kill stuff anyways as there are many to kill on gold. You simply cannot kill as much as they with demolisher, as you cannot kill with Krogan soldier as much as 2 AAs working together.

I don't see a SE, AV, HE, KSent complain about playing with 2 highly skilled MQIs spamming arcs with BW X or whatever top weapon. The variety of classes is there for a reason - complete the goal in different ways of contributing to teamplay (dealing damage, distracting enemies, stripping shields, debuffing for the whole team, playing medic, tank to draw fire), otherwise there could be 4 similar characters and about 1 or 2 weapons of each weapon class with similar damage in class.

And killing is not the goal, the goal is: do OBJECTIVES and EXTRACT. Killing enemies is only a thing you have to do in order to be able to complete the goal. (only 1 objective is kill the targets).

If you want kill more, play character focused on killing things, and better learn to kill with other classes.

[dvjm]

Chriss5688 wrote...

TamTam79 wrote...

OP seems to have forgotten that you aren't "competing" with other XBL players in this game.

That's not the problem. Thing is... with these loadouts there's not much left for you to do. Which simply isn't fun.

Exactly.  It's the same problem as pre-nerf GIs with Krysaes - it makes for a very boring game.  Start/enemies all dead before you can find them (or if you are lucky you get to kill a moob or two)/Next level/Rinse and repeat.  The only fun part is when they can't do objectives.  Hmm.  That makes me think.  How could you tailor an objective that got harder the higher DPS your gun was...

[Pitznik]

Oggy666 wrote...


And killing is not the goal, the goal is: do OBJECTIVES and EXTRACT. Killing enemies is only a thing you have to do in order to be able to complete the goal. (only 1 objective is kill the targets).

Waves 1, 2, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9 are about killing.

Waves 3, 6, 10 can be about killing.

How is killing not the goal then?

[Emissary of the Collectors]

Pitznik wrote...

Oggy666 wrote...


And killing is not the goal, the goal is: do OBJECTIVES and EXTRACT. Killing enemies is only a thing you have to do in order to be able to complete the goal. (only 1 objective is kill the targets).

Waves 1, 2, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9 are about killing.

Waves 3, 6, 10 can be about killing.

How is killing not the goal then?

So the mission is to go to this place, kill a ton of enemies and then leave? Does that not sound idiotic to you? Why would we care about that facility if we just want to kill and leave? The goal is objectives, the enemies just stand in our way

[Jay_Hoxtatron]

Transairion wrote...


I hardly even see gun-focused classes above Silver, but you're convinced the Destroyer is so gosh-darn-OP he can solo Gold or Plat in the blink of an eye? Okaaaaaaaaaaay, evidence please.

Destroyer, Human Soldier, Infiltrators. All weapon-focused. All crazy good on Gold/Plat.

[Bleachrude]

While I'm going to avoid the nerf/buff argument, It should be noted that it _IS_ Firebase Glacier that this took place on...

Glacier is the smallest map with very narrow hallways and the typhoon and piranha are perfect for such an environment...Throw in that an Atlas forms choke points and is so large that you can't NOT hit the damn thing, of course these guns will rock...

Larger maps like giant with wide open space , such weapons drop off in effectiveness...

Modifié par Bleachrude, 23 juillet 2012 - 12:44 .

[tMc Tallgeese]

Had a game yesterday where we had 4 Destroyers on Platinum. Two used Typhoons, one used Pirahna and I used a Revenant. It was like putting the AI through a meat grinder. There was no standing our ground. We just roamed around the Rio map slaughtering everything. What topped it off was one guy kept screaming Arnold one-liners as we went.

[Oggy666]

Drake Malice wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

Oggy666 wrote...


And killing is not the goal, the goal is: do OBJECTIVES and EXTRACT. Killing enemies is only a thing you have to do in order to be able to complete the goal. (only 1 objective is kill the targets).

Waves 1, 2, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9 are about killing.

Waves 3, 6, 10 can be about killing.

How is killing not the goal then?

So the mission is to go to this place, kill a ton of enemies and then leave? Does that not sound idiotic to you? Why would we care about that facility if we just want to kill and leave? The goal is objectives, the enemies just stand in our way

All said. Goal - complete objectives. Killing comes along as the enemy tries to stop you from achieving the goal.

[jae112200]

"How is that fun? I know this kind of DPS is required for Platinum, but how on earth is any class supposed to compete with that? I left after the 6th wave. I know I could've remained and earned easy 70k credits, but this was just no fun. I was a Demolisher and I felt totally useless. It's all because of Platinum. If this DPS weren't required to finish the damn thing..." The destroyer is powerful, the way that it's meant to be. I played yesterday as one and one of my teamates was playing as one also, and he had pirannaha x. This was on silver, and I outscored him by close to 10k with a phaeston. class "power" doesn't matter, its about what you do with it. You could equip your character with a powerful weapon, use that and ARC grenades,which are insanely powerful and probably compete pretty well with that class.

Modifié par jae112200, 23 juillet 2012 - 12:54 .

[Tonymac]

Any time at all a class or a weapon is any good vs platinum, the whiners will come out of the shadows. The cryers will snivel and beg for cheese like the worthless street scum they are, rather than burning in hell like they should be.

You snivellers and need some cheese with your whine. Give it a rest - or get back under whatever rock you came out from under. All the inept do in these forums is cry and beg for nerfs. Not everyone sucks as bad as you do - GET OVER IT. If you can't hang then STFU and stop trying to ruin it for the nonbaddies.

[cronshaw]

I think it is silly to leave a game like the op did. I, however, have began using other guns on gold w/the destroyer. Trying everything out to see what works and what doesn't, because I know the typhoon works. Frankly this isn't really any different than people using the reegar and Krysae 

Modifié par modok8, 23 juillet 2012 - 01:01 .

[RequiemPrime]

Still trying to wrap my head around this.

Comparing a Support class to an Assault class.

Having the ability, if specced right, to have 12 grenades available which should enable the OP to destroy MOBS, which as a SUPPORT class should be concentrated on, to keep the heavies on your team safe while they take care of bosses. But complain there is nothing to kill?

And walking out of a match because of it?

I mean....I'm really trying to understand the logic behind starting this thread.

[greghorvath]

Pitznik wrote...

greghorvath wrote...

I have a regular playing buddy that outscores my destroyer with his demolisher 4 out of 5 games. The moral of the story is that you need more practice with your class.

Or you do.

Well, however true, that is a different matter. I usually score top when he is not around, but unfortunately we play together a lot...

The fact is that the potential is there in the engineer to outscore (if that is your goal) the destroyer.