127 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryan_H]

So because you suck at playing vanguards and soldiers the game developers need to nerf Platinum so you can play with all of us who don't?

[joker_jack]

Immortal Strife wrote...

All classes are viable, but if that's not what op wants to hear then, I will say, DPS classes and Grenade classes are the most optimal for platinum at the moment.

Vanguards aren't viable for platinum. Those that play pugs will glitch at some point and always at the worst times. Not everyone will or can host. Shame too because vanguards are a fun class to play.

Modifié par joker_jack, 23 juillet 2012 - 07:16 .

[LeandroBraz]

Moxy_Pirate wrote...

One thing that I would really like Bioware to be careful of is viability of classes. Gold to a much smaller degree was like this but honestly playing platinum with a Vanguard or a Soldier borders on retarded. Yes you can make it work to a degree with some of the races but as a whole vanguards are just dumb to take into platinum and so are soldiers. These classes are meant to get in the thick of it and deal damage, but they are literally paper dolls in the platinum setting.

Stopped here.

I played with a novaguard on platinum, Firebase Rio, It was extremely effective, but it require at least one biotic on the team, so you can work with him on explosions. Vanguards work greatly in objectives, since he can move through the map in a fast and safe way. They are good to revive too.

Soldiers are awesome (yes, human soldier, the classic one, adrenaline rush and sh*t). It's my favorite on platinum for now, the one I'm being more effective, using the striker. With incendiary os disruptor ammo, I can deal a lot of damage, kill bosses fast, deal with mobs, hold them while my team deal with other stuff. It's perfect.

Modifié par LeandroBraz, 23 juillet 2012 - 07:22 .

[Immortal Strife]

 Viable: adjective- it doesn't sound like a viable solution: feasible, workable, practicable, practical, usable, possible, realistic, achievable, attainable, realizable; informal doable. ANTONYMS impracticable.

*Maybe you should use a different word then, such as...

Optimum: adjective-most conducive to a favorable outcome; best : the optimum childbearing age.noun; the most favorable conditions or level for growth, reproduction, or success.

The optimum classes for platinum are: GI, QME, Destroyer, QMI, SI, TS (with Piranha+Marsman), QI, HI, HSol, Demolisher, DA, Fury, AA, AJ, CV, KV, AV, Shadow... alright no more, the rest suck-lol

"Order is from most optimal to least"

Modifié par Immortal Strife, 23 juillet 2012 - 07:28 .

[tfoltz]

classes I've seen work the best so far:

Adept: Justicar; Fury
Soldier: Human; Turian; Destroyer
Engineer: Demolisher
Sentinel: Human; Turian (pair with reaver)
Infiltrator: Geth; Male Quarian; Salarian
Vanguard: Cerberus (pair with reaver)

Just need constant explosions or constant shooting.

Modifié par tfoltz, 23 juillet 2012 - 07:20 .

[Nitestick7]

For the general player base, some classes are easier to use on platinum than others, that is true. I can see how nova-guarding would be difficult, I haven't seen anyone attempt it yet. But you couldn't be more wrong about soldiers. Easily the most powerful class on platinum from everything I've seen. Typhoon or Piranha on a destroyer and everything melts in front of you. I haven't tried all the soldiers yet, but I know the Human Soldier, Destroyer, and Turian Soldier all wreck on platinum. They have great damage output with their weapons since they all have abilities that augment it. Plus they are tough enough to take a few shots and not go down. In most every game I've played on platinum, the soldiers have been the glue holding the squad together, always being the last ones to go down, and the first to finish off the most threatening targets. They do equally well if the team decides to camp an area, or if you move from enemy spawn to enemy spawn and go for speed that way.

My first impression is that you are right about the vanguards though. Except for the kroguard, I think the first recorded solo platinum run was by a kroguard.

[Zero132132]

Ryan_H wrote...

So because you suck at playing vanguards and soldiers the game developers need to nerf Platinum so you can play with all of us who don't?

Someone doesn't have to suck with a vanguard to suck with a vanguard on platinum.

A Drell Vanguard, played well, can do pretty well on gold. In gold matches, it's almost always the mooks (Centurions/Marauders/Rocket Troopers and lower) that actually get the kill, and with the DV, I'm a master of mook-killing (exception of the Geth, **** them). Takes a lot of the pressure off, and you can net a high score. Only thing I can do against banshees and the like is shoot 'em a whole bunch and grenade-spam, which is well and fine, just not as fun, not as effective.

Since Platinum only has the big, ugly bastards, and shieldgate seems to have a longer "recharge" time, where does the DV fit in? Charge is a liability against anything with an instakill ability, and the DV just doesn't have enough shields to survive long against Primes. When most enemies are bosses, there's just not a lot for the Drellguard to do except chuck grenades and pop out of cover just long enough to lose his shields, taking shots at the enemies. It definitely isn't fun.

Also, not your deal, but responding to people who say that there are objectively good and bad classes, and that the 'bad' classes can be played well by good players that would do better on 'good' classes, well... I wouldn't quite classify myself as a good player, but I'm decent, and even on bronze (yes, BRONZE), I fail miserably running a GI with a Claymore. GI just doesn't work with my style of play, while "worse" classes can. There isn't one set skill level that makes every class better on the same player. Some classes have better synergy with a player's skillset than others, and it isn't always the 'good' classes that have the best fit.

[Moxy_Pirate]

Immortal Strife wrote...

Moxy_Pirate wrote...

DarkLord_PT wrote...

Immortal Strife wrote...

All classes are viable, but if that's not what op wants to here then, I will say, DPS classes and Grenade classes are the most optimal for platinum at the moment.

What do you consider as "viable"?

He clearly didn't read the thread.

- When you birng in a class and 2 or even 3 of your class abilities are unusable, thats an issue. That class isnt viable
- All classes can shoot rockets, grab, and shoot weapons. This means that you can complete platinum with these classes but completion doesnt mean the class is viable.
-the developers vision of how to make platinum difficult is imo lazy and pushes all the classes to play the same way. Crouching, grabbing, shooting rockets, and gun fire/ ability spam from cover.

I do want more people to come into the thread and declare that platinum is great and all class are fine though. Its kind of entertaining.

Viable: adjective- it doesn't sound like a viable solution: feasible, workable, practicable, practical, usable, possible, realistic, achievable, attainable, realizable; informal doable. ANTONYMS impracticable.

*Maybe you should use a different word then!

Not really. When you can't use your abilities because of poor game design... that makes the class not viable. You seem to think because you can extract on any class that its viable, but I am saying when you can't use your abilities then the game play is broken and the class isnt viable because you are not interacting with enemies as intended.

[UEG Donkey]

DarkLord_PT wrote...

UEG Donkey wrote...
viable-able to be used by SOME at the platinum level of difficulty sucessfully  

Not a very high bar but a bar nonetheless

Not what I meant.
Per example, a Novaguard, how'd you go at it? How long would you survive?
Besides, if it takes a pretty good
player to survive platinum with such a class, then no, it is not
viable. For it to be viable, it has to take more than a handful of
people to be able to play it as the class is suppose to be played. In
the case of a Vanguard, charge -> kill stuff -> charge -> kill
more stuff.
Not cover->kill stuff->back to cover

I'll
admit I'm only slightly above average as a player, but I still know how
far a Vanguard can go before you're only hurting yourself and your team
by taking one.

You asked the question so I gave an answer of what makes something viable.  If 20% of the players that
routinely play Plat can extract on Plat with a class that makes the class viable. 

The human vanguard is viable on Plat, make sure your targets are primed by a teammate and can't instakill you when you charge, if they can use shockwave from behind cover or behind a wall.  Don't put yourself in bad situations and use shockwave more on Plat.

Moxy_Pirate wrote...

- When you birng in a class and 2 or even 3 of your class abilities are unusable, thats an issue. That class isnt viable

Name one class that can't use three of its abilities in Plat.  Go ahead, do it

Modifié par UEG Donkey, 23 juillet 2012 - 07:28 .

[Immortal Strife]

Moxy_Pirate wrote...

Immortal Strife wrote...

Moxy_Pirate wrote...

DarkLord_PT wrote...

Immortal Strife wrote...

All classes are viable, but if that's not what op wants to here then, I will say, DPS classes and Grenade classes are the most optimal for platinum at the moment.

What do you consider as "viable"?

He clearly didn't read the thread.

- When you birng in a class and 2 or even 3 of your class abilities are unusable, thats an issue. That class isnt viable
- All classes can shoot rockets, grab, and shoot weapons. This means that you can complete platinum with these classes but completion doesnt mean the class is viable.
-the developers vision of how to make platinum difficult is imo lazy and pushes all the classes to play the same way. Crouching, grabbing, shooting rockets, and gun fire/ ability spam from cover.

I do want more people to come into the thread and declare that platinum is great and all class are fine though. Its kind of entertaining.

Viable: adjective- it doesn't sound like a viable solution: feasible, workable, practicable, practical, usable, possible, realistic, achievable, attainable, realizable; informal doable. ANTONYMS impracticable.

*Maybe you should use a different word then!

Not really. When you can't use your abilities because of poor game design... that makes the class not viable. You seem to think because you can extract on any class that its viable, but I am saying when you can't use your abilities then the game play is broken and the class isnt viable because you are not interacting with enemies as intended.

If you're arguing that "poor game design" infers broken skills or skill trees, then yes, I agree with you. But if you are in-fact talking about platinum enemy HPs and wave make-up, well,  I disagree on that point.

[Xerorei]

UEG Donkey wrote...

DarkLord_PT wrote...

UEG Donkey wrote...
viable-able to be used by SOME at the platinum level of difficulty sucessfully  

Not a very high bar but a bar nonetheless

Not what I meant.
Per example, a Novaguard, how'd you go at it? How long would you survive?
Besides, if it takes a pretty good
player to survive platinum with such a class, then no, it is not
viable. For it to be viable, it has to take more than a handful of
people to be able to play it as the class is suppose to be played. In
the case of a Vanguard, charge -> kill stuff -> charge -> kill
more stuff.
Not cover->kill stuff->back to cover

I'll
admit I'm only slightly above average as a player, but I still know how
far a Vanguard can go before you're only hurting yourself and your team
by taking one.

You asked the question so I gave an answer of what makes something viable.  If 20% of the players that
routinely play Plat can extract on Plat with a class that makes the class viable. 

The human vanguard is viable on Plat, make sure your targets are primed by a teammate and can't instakill you when you charge, if they can use shockwave from behind cover or behind a wall.  Don't put yourself in bad situations and use shockwave more on Plat.

Moxy_Pirate wrote...

- When you birng in a class and 2 or even 3 of your class abilities are unusable, thats an issue. That class isnt viable

Name one class that can't use three of its abilities in Plat.  Go ahead, do it

If 20% of the userbase reaches extraction with a class that does not mean it's viable, that just means 20% of the userbase can use it, it'd have to be above 50% to be viable as that's a more than half ratio.

and name one class?

N7 Fury.

[Felhand]

 (mostly for fun so pull the serious stick out of your butt before reading this)
How to play Platinum 101

Soldier: Grenades, nest on top of a ammo box/pylon like a large armored hen.

Adept: Be racist, keep to your own kind damnit!

Infiltrator: Learn to speak in a german accent and anwer to the call "MEDIC!"

Sentinel: Pretend both your parents were biotics, dont tell the adepts you had a tech father.

Vanguard: Use a respec card to remove the skill "Biotic Charge" you wont be using it anyways.

Engineer: Spend your time moving your pylon around so you can have all the grenades to yourself, stupid soldiers.

[UEG Donkey]

Xerorei wrote...


If 20% of the userbase reaches extraction with a class that does not mean it's viable, that just means 20% of the userbase can use it, it'd have to be above 50% to be viable as that's a more than half ratio.

and name one class?

N7 Fury.

I define viablity differently but that's why its your opinion and not mine.  The Fury has the most spammable detonator in the game, and two primers that are awesome; N7 Fury is one of the better classes to take into Plat. 

[Zero132132]

Xerorei wrote...

If 20% of the userbase reaches extraction with a class that does not mean it's viable, that just means 20% of the userbase can use it, it'd have to be above 50% to be viable as that's a more than half ratio.

and name one class?

N7 Fury.

No. I've done great as the Fury, when camping. Never really sorted out how NOT to camp on Platinum yet, but if AF is speced for damage increase from all sources, getting close to choke points helps kill enemies very quickly, and at range, DC+Throw works the exact same way you'd expect it to, you just have to reprime it rather than waiting for it to jump when someone dies.

That's all 3.

I'd still think the Drellguard would be the obvious choice. Charging when he's so squishy is gonna usually lead to death, and I'm not sure that there's a single enemy that pull could be used on. Basically left with grenade spam.

Modifié par Zero132132, 23 juillet 2012 - 07:40 .

[Moxy_Pirate]

UEG Donkey wrote...

Name one class that can't use three of its abilities in Plat.  Go ahead, do it

I'll give you that. But theres plenty of characters that can only use 1 power and its really weak. For example KVd can basically only use Carnage, and HV ends up spamming shockwave.

Immortal Strife wrote...

Moxy_Pirate wrote...

Immortal Strife wrote...

Moxy_Pirate wrote...

DarkLord_PT wrote...

Immortal Strife wrote...

All classes are viable, but if that's not what op wants to here then, I will say, DPS classes and Grenade classes are the most optimal for platinum at the moment.

What do you consider as "viable"?

He clearly didn't read the thread.

- When you birng in a class and 2 or even 3 of your class abilities are unusable, thats an issue. That class isnt viable
- All classes can shoot rockets, grab, and shoot weapons. This means that you can complete platinum with these classes but completion doesnt mean the class is viable.
-the developers vision of how to make platinum difficult is imo lazy and pushes all the classes to play the same way. Crouching, grabbing, shooting rockets, and gun fire/ ability spam from cover.

I do want more people to come into the thread and declare that platinum is great and all class are fine though. Its kind of entertaining.

Viable: adjective- it doesn't sound like a viable solution: feasible, workable, practicable, practical, usable, possible, realistic, achievable, attainable, realizable; informal doable. ANTONYMS impracticable.

*Maybe you should use a different word then!

Not really. When you can't use your abilities because of poor game design... that makes the class not viable. You seem to think because you can extract on any class that its viable, but I am saying when you can't use your abilities then the game play is broken and the class isnt viable because you are not interacting with enemies as intended.

If you're arguing that "poor game design" infers broken skills or skill trees, then yes, I agree with you. But if you are in-fact talking about platinum enemy HPs and wave make-up, well,  I disagree on that point.

The game design of Platinum is what makes certain classes annoying to use. Again, there are other wyas to make content harder besides giving the bad guys more hp and more damage. I dont even care about the number of bad guys in the wave. and the hp is really not a big deal either. but damage they do is overkill. Instead of more damage, give them more abilities that i have to becareful of or react to. Then platinum wouldnt be such a snoozefest of crouching.

[Pedro Costa]

Felhand wrote...
Vanguard: Use a respec card to remove the skill "Biotic Charge" you wont be using it anyways.

And here is the problem =(

@
UEG Donkey 
Thanks for the tips, will deff try =)

[adrenaline1983]

WestLakeDragon wrote...

Yeah, platinum is a campfest. You move, you die, by wave 6.

Errr... before I got disconnected in the tail end of wave 10, I was moving around the entire match.  I am also using the Geth Grenadier build -- equipped with a Falcon with level four fitness and cloak (damage bonus) and my Falcon X.  I did not die once to any enemy fire other than the Banshee's enrage attack that whittled down my shields and eventually health.  

[Moxy_Pirate]

I also think they need to add a new game mode where you take out a single high profile target.

[UEG Donkey]

Zero132132 wrote...

Xerorei wrote...

If 20% of the userbase reaches extraction with a class that does not mean it's viable, that just means 20% of the userbase can use it, it'd have to be above 50% to be viable as that's a more than half ratio.

and name one class?

N7 Fury.

No. I've done great as the Fury, when camping. Never really sorted out how NOT to camp on Platinum yet, but if AF is speced for damage increase from all sources, getting close to choke points helps kill enemies very quickly, and at range, DC+Throw works the exact same way you'd expect it to, you just have to reprime it rather than waiting for it to jump when someone dies.

That's all 3.

I'd still think the Drellguard would be the obvious choice. Charging when he's so squishy is gonna usually lead to death, and I'm not sure that there's a single enemy that pull could be used on. Basically left with grenade spam.

I'm not a big fan of the Drellguard but Cluster grenades are one of the better abilities in the game and Charge isn't unusable you simply have to be judicious about using it on primed targets that can't instakill you due to status.  Pull is probably the only ability I can think of that you really can't get much use out of it in Plat. 

[UEG Donkey]

Modifié par UEG Donkey, 23 juillet 2012 - 07:55 .

[adrenaline1983]

I have a question for those who have played Platinum exclusively: Is there a common trend in terms of the classes that seemingly have little viability in Platinum?

[YIRAWK]

I find that vanguards can use their powers efficiently on Platinum, the main problem I have however is sync kills and stagger. Geth Primes make it impossible to charge thanks to stagger and Hunters are no better. Charge a Phantom or Banshee and you will likely get insta-killed. It's a good thing waves arent comprised of them nearly exclusively... oh wait. I can solo gold as a Novaguard and the main problem of Platinum for me is not that there is so many bosses, its that the bosses LOVE to insta-kill Vanguards. I don't often play Soldier, so I can't give my opinion for it.

[Jay_Hoxtatron]

Xerorei wrote...



If 20% of the userbase reaches extraction with a class that does not mean it's viable, that just means 20% of the userbase can use it, it'd have to be above 50% to be viable as that's a more than half ratio.

and name one class?

N7 Fury.

If 20% can extract with the Fury on Platinum, it means the Fury is viable and that 80% don't know how to use it.

Also, the Fury tears **** up on Gold and Plat.

Why would you need more than half the playerbase to extract with it to mean it's viable. 

Anyhow, some classes are clearly better suited for Platinum, because you need a high DPS output on it. That's why you'll often see those setups on Platinum. Because they are better. They clear faster. classes are not equal, and that difference was exacerbated by the fact that it's mainly boss type enemies on Platinum.  

[ConstantineCS]

Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...

Xerorei wrote...



If 20% of the userbase reaches extraction with a class that does not mean it's viable, that just means 20% of the userbase can use it, it'd have to be above 50% to be viable as that's a more than half ratio.

and name one class?

N7 Fury.

If 20% can extract with the Fury on Platinum, it means the Fury is viable and that 80% don't know how to use it.

Also, the Fury tears **** up on Gold and Plat.

Why would you need more than half the playerbase to extract with it to mean it's viable. 

Anyhow, some classes are clearly better suited for Platinum, because you need a high DPS output on it. That's why you'll often see those setups on Platinum. Because they are better. They clear faster. classes are not equal, and that difference was exacerbated by the fact that it's mainly boss type enemies on Platinum.  

[Uberschveinen]

And now people are saying that a class isn't viable unless most people can play it on Platinum.

That is just... I don't even know.

The ENTIRE BASIC POINT of Platinum was to have a difficulty that was far too hard for almost all the players of the game. That was the design premise from start to finish. If half the players of ANY class can extract on Platinum it would mean that the entire game difficulty is broken.

Silver and Gold are better examples, because the design premise seems to be that any team that isn't actively terrible can beat Silver, and any team that is not flawless should face the prospect that they may fail Gold. The balance point Bioware takes, based on everything they do, is that somewhere between Silver and Gold is their magic balance point. If you talked about viability meaning most people should beat Silver and most people should not quite beat Gold, then you'd be talking sense. But you're not going to say that because it undermines your claims entirely.