127 réponses à ce sujet

[BaladasDemnevanni]

Uberschveinen wrote...

And now people are saying that a class isn't viable unless most people can play it on Platinum.

That is just... I don't even know.

The ENTIRE BASIC POINT of Platinum was to have a difficulty that was far too hard for almost all the players of the game. That was the design premise from start to finish. If half the players of ANY class can extract on Platinum it would mean that the entire game difficulty is broken.

Silver and Gold are better examples, because the design premise seems to be that any team that isn't actively terrible can beat Silver, and any team that is not flawless should face the prospect that they may fail Gold. The balance point Bioware takes, based on everything they do, is that somewhere between Silver and Gold is their magic balance point. If you talked about viability meaning most people should beat Silver and most people should not quite beat Gold, then you'd be talking sense. But you're not going to say that because it undermines your claims entirely.

Too hard for most players does not equal too hard for most characters. The former is desired, the latter is a failure in game design. It's the same craptastic balancing mechanism which WoW revolves around. It's also common with any competitively designed game. Theorycrafting determines the most effective DnD characters, the best structure decks in card games, and the most able characters in fighting games like Super Smash Bros.

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 24 juillet 2012 - 02:50 .

[Achire]

YIRAWK wrote...

I find that vanguards can use their powers efficiently on Platinum, the main problem I have however is sync kills and stagger. Geth Primes make it impossible to charge thanks to stagger and Hunters are no better. Charge a Phantom or Banshee and you will likely get insta-killed. It's a good thing waves arent comprised of them nearly exclusively... oh wait. I can solo gold as a Novaguard and the main problem of Platinum for me is not that there is so many bosses, its that the bosses LOVE to insta-kill Vanguards. I don't often play Soldier, so I can't give my opinion for it.

Here's what works for me on Phantoms. If anyone finds a better way, please do tell me so I can start using a Piranha X exclusively. You can actually tank the entire 3 hit Prime combo with a Cyclonic Modulator IV, unless there's something else shooting at you which as we know never happens on Platinum. Completely agreed on the stuns, they just make Platinum unfun to play.

I think the character data for Platinum is going to show interesting things. If there's a decent percentage of Drellguards on successful Gold extractions but essentially none on Platinum, I would say that's a problem in the game.

[Moxy_Pirate]

Uberschveinen wrote...

And now people are saying that a class isn't viable unless most people can play it on Platinum.

That is just... I don't even know.

The ENTIRE BASIC POINT of Platinum was to have a difficulty that was far too hard for almost all the players of the game. That was the design premise from start to finish. If half the players of ANY class can extract on Platinum it would mean that the entire game difficulty is broken.

Silver and Gold are better examples, because the design premise seems to be that any team that isn't actively terrible can beat Silver, and any team that is not flawless should face the prospect that they may fail Gold. The balance point Bioware takes, based on everything they do, is that somewhere between Silver and Gold is their magic balance point. If you talked about viability meaning most people should beat Silver and most people should not quite beat Gold, then you'd be talking sense. But you're not going to say that because it undermines your claims entirely.

Uber, all I want is for the difficulty setting to be difficult in creative and engaging ways that allow every class to interact with the enemies as intended.  I used 2 classes that I believe become liabilities if they try to use their abilities regularly in platinum. Of course certain characters are exceptions but those were my examples.

Today I ran a bunch of Gold runs and had no problems playing my vanguard like a vanguard. I topped the charts or just behind the leader in score, and also was a great teammate (revives & helping w obj). On platinum, I have to abandon biotic charge on all my vanguards for the most part. I am mostly camping behind cover in a room with my teammates waiting for grabs/ opportune times to blast rockets, and shooting when I can. The reason I abandon my vanguard for an adept in gold is because if I'm going to play peek a boo with enemies, I might as well have an ability thats actually useful.

[Moxy_Pirate]

Achire wrote...

YIRAWK wrote...

I find that vanguards can use their powers efficiently on Platinum, the main problem I have however is sync kills and stagger. Geth Primes make it impossible to charge thanks to stagger and Hunters are no better. Charge a Phantom or Banshee and you will likely get insta-killed. It's a good thing waves arent comprised of them nearly exclusively... oh wait. I can solo gold as a Novaguard and the main problem of Platinum for me is not that there is so many bosses, its that the bosses LOVE to insta-kill Vanguards. I don't often play Soldier, so I can't give my opinion for it.

Here's what works for me on Phantoms. If anyone finds a better way, please do tell me so I can start using a Piranha X exclusively. You can actually tank the entire 3 hit Prime combo with a Cyclonic Modulator IV, unless there's something else shooting at you which as we know never happens on Platinum. Completely agreed on the stuns, they just make Platinum unfun to play.

I think the character data for Platinum is going to show interesting things. If there's a decent percentage of Drellguards on successful Gold extractions but essentially none on Platinum, I would say that's a problem in the game.

Krogan Vanguards and Asari Vanguards eat phantoms for lunch. 1v1. I'd rather have the AV in Plat cos stasis is pretty awesome.

[Der Ivan91]

what is most efficient for Platinum if you don't have THAT much skill?

Get 3 buddies to play with you (level 20 characters of course)
The team should look like this:

3x Geth Juggernaut (screw the turret, go for the siege pulse that gives you more damage resist and the large Hex shield)

1x Volus adept (the spheres it creates decrease cooldown for shield boost)

How do you do it?
the Geth Juggernauts stand at the front and deal damage (yes, I know, as defense- focused characters their dps isn't THAT impressive) while the volus keeps them alive with shield boost.

Works best on FB Giant
You have a nice spot to camp in (the upper right part of the map, excellent for camping, lots of cover/corners large enough for the Juggernaut)

This team setup barely ever fails (Juggernauts are immune to sync kills, remember?) and mostly depends on keeping the volus guy alive


having one Volus in the team is a HUGE help as it helps you avoid death countless times. Having a team of 4 Volus adepts on platinum...
I tried it once and I've gotta say:
Give all of them decent handguns that keep their CD at the minimum and then stay close to each other and spam shield boost...
You won't do it very efficiently, but it's gonna be VERY fun

Geth infiltrator is one hell of a class for platinum.
Turian infiltrator is the same with a Harrier, but remember to watch your ammo

Other than that:
1) If you have a destroyer, DON'T give it the Geth spitfire. Seriously. Add the movement penalty of the Geth spitfire (only the Geth Juggernaut is unaffected by that penalty as it is slow enough already) and the penalty of the devastator mode and you'll die very often because you are that slow and left behind.
Other than that- biotic explosion builds are excellent choices when dealing with reapers

[Kislitsin]

So you are probably an ambassador of all the PUG people on plat...
Also, holy necro batman.

[Kislitsin]

Also l2spitfiredestroyer

[Dalakaar]

Der Ivan...

Firstly.
http://t3.gstatic.co...n-aEcnKuijljRFw

Let's just assume this is legitimate for a moment, have you considered that sticking to gold may in fact net you more credits-per-hour than a molasses potentially wipey platinum? I mean, I've done 4 puggernauts before (randomly too I might add) for the giggles, but only once, it gets boring awefully quick.

Kislitsin wrote...
Also, holy necro batman.

Yarp.

Modifié par Dala Kaar, 30 novembre 2013 - 08:39 .

[HusarX]

Der Ivan91 wrote...

The team should look like this:
3x Geth Juggernaut (screw the turret, go for the siege pulse that gives you more damage resist and the large Hex shield)
1x Volus adept (the spheres it creates decrease cooldown for shield boost)

Good to know, thx.

[Kislitsin]

He is wrong actually, you need a jugg (it's not even a question) 2 flamer troopers and one reeger-aiu (with duration cloak ofc).
It's the only way to extract from anything other than giant-rippazz.

Modifié par Kislitsin, 30 novembre 2013 - 08:56 .

[Lucky]

Kislitsin wrote...

He is wrong actually, you need a jugg (it's not even a question) 2 flamer troopers and one reeger-aiu (with duration cloak ofc).
It's the only way to extract from anything other than giant-rippazz.

Lemme just borrow this from Dala real quick...
http://t3.gstatic.co...n-aEcnKuijljRFw

I sincerely hope it is the former.

[Kislitsin]

rlucht wrote...

Lemme just borrow this from Dala real quick...

I sincerely hope it is the former.

As a non-native speaker, I have a trouble expressing sarcasm in the text. I just described the pug teams I meet regularly.
My go to platinum kits (i'm most comfortable with) are old-guard turians, human and drell adepts, sabo, qme. So guess, former or latter.

Modifié par Kislitsin, 30 novembre 2013 - 09:07 .

[Dalakaar]

Kislitsin wrote...

He is wrong actually, you need a jugg (it's not even a question) 2 flamer troopers and one reeger-aiu (with duration cloak ofc).

Sort of close to one of the fastest platinum runs I had a while back (Not being sarcastic even.)

Puggernaut, Paladin (Me) , Flamer, and Dark Sphere spamming Collector. The puggernaut did a roundup at a choke point, I snapcheese, dark sphere detonates, Prime even threw in a Siege Pulse or two, and the flamer mopped up. Was actually quite fun. Helped immensely that it was glacier/non-hazard.

It was cheese pure and simple don't get me wrong, but the colours were wicked. (I may have been high as a kite.)

[ManRightChea]

Sounds to me that you may just be out of your league. Vanguards and Soldiers are totally Plat viable, hell Soldiers are some of the best Plat classes. Destroyer, Krogan, Batarian, Turian, Geth Trooper/Juggernaut and many more are all just fine on Plat. Plat is supposed to be difficult, that is what makes it what it is.
As for running around and not camping, that is delegated only by the skill of you and your team. A good team makes even Plat trivial friend.

It annoys me because you attempt to place all players in a single barrel, making sweeping statements that this class or that is just not viable and Plat is too tough, then proceed to call those that can use them well all elitists as if they are lying. If you can't handle certain classes on Plat, that is fine, but you speak for yourself. The Soldiers are some of the best characters on the game for any difficulty, many Vanguards such as the Krogan, Phoenix, Drell, Cabal etc are excellent even on Plat. 

Plat is not limited to just camping and cowering at your inability to move, so long as you have adequate skill and a good team. With those key ingredients Plat can be a breeze with ANY character.  Plat requires more than a good gun and some equpment, it requires good situational awareness, good self suffienciency, in the lack of that then good communication, knowledge of enemy spawns, knowledge of enemy habits etc. These are the reasons so many noobs get rocked on Plat, you can shortcut you way to high level UR's if you cheat, but skill is something that must be earned. You do not criticize a Ferrari FXX because you cannot handle it,  it doesn't make the car bad. It meas the car is too much for your personal skill to handle, doesn't mean there are not thousands of drivers out there with the skill to make it dance.

Modifié par ManRightChea, 30 novembre 2013 - 10:30 .

[Chief Capo]

Moxy_Pirate wrote...

One thing that I would really like Bioware to be careful of is viability of classes. Gold to a much smaller degree was like this but honestly playing platinum with a Vanguard or a Soldier borders on retarded.

You're out of your MIND . Let me explain, If you have a Geth Juggernaut + Any Vanguard on the Team, That will be absolute demolition on it's own. So that knocks 2 birds with one stone

But yeah .... With any other soldier ... you've gotta be stupid. I mean, not stupid, but , You probably won't top with a soldier if you're in a good team ... But I don't agree with the vanguards. AT ALL

Any / EVERYVanguard is Viable for Platinum if specced correctly. ESPECIALLY the cabal + Cerberus vanguards.
Drellguard SHINES with those CLUSTA' Grenades, Asari Vanguard? Stasis + Lift grenades? Seriously?

The battlemaster? never used him, think I specced into him once when I first got him but decided against using him so .. idk.

The n7 slayer, Phase Disrup'd King of taking down reapers? Lol

Honestly the only pointless vanguard to bring into Platinum is the Batarian. Wtf you' gonna do with blade armor in platinum ...

Modifié par Chief Capo, 30 novembre 2013 - 10:26 .

[Kislitsin]

Chief Capo wrote...

Moxy_Pirate wrote...

One thing that I would really like Bioware to be careful of is viability of classes. Gold to a much smaller degree was like this but honestly playing platinum with a Vanguard or a Soldier borders on retarded.

You're out of your MIND . Let me explain, If you have a Geth Juggernaut + Any Vanguard on the Team, That will be absolute demolition on it's own. So that knocks 2 birds with one stone

But yeah .... With any other soldier ... you've gotta be stupid. But I don't agree with the vanguards.

Any / EVERYVanguard is Viable for Platinum if specced correctly. ESPECIALLY the cabal + Cerberus vanguards.
Drellguard SHINES with those CLUSTA' Grenades, Asari Vanguard? Stasis + Lift grenades? Seriously?

The battlemaster? never used him, think I specced into him once when I first got him but decided against using him so .. idk.

The n7 slayer, Phase Disrup'd King of taking down reapers? Lol

Honestly the only pointless vanguard to bring into Platinum is the Batarian. Wtf you' gonna do with blade armor in platinum ...

Lol wut?
stupid with soldiers?
Batarian vanguard poinless on plat?
Lift nades + stasis is a good combo for plat?

Are you sane, dude?

[Chief Capo]

Kislitsin wrote...

Chief Capo wrote...

Moxy_Pirate wrote...

One thing that I would really like Bioware to be careful of is viability of classes. Gold to a much smaller degree was like this but honestly playing platinum with a Vanguard or a Soldier borders on retarded.

You're out of your MIND . Let me explain, If you have a Geth Juggernaut + Any Vanguard on the Team, That will be absolute demolition on it's own. So that knocks 2 birds with one stone

But yeah .... With any other soldier ... you've gotta be stupid. But I don't agree with the vanguards.

Any / EVERYVanguard is Viable for Platinum if specced correctly. ESPECIALLY the cabal + Cerberus vanguards.
Drellguard SHINES with those CLUSTA' Grenades, Asari Vanguard? Stasis + Lift grenades? Seriously?

The battlemaster? never used him, think I specced into him once when I first got him but decided against using him so .. idk.

The n7 slayer, Phase Disrup'd King of taking down reapers? Lol

Honestly the only pointless vanguard to bring into Platinum is the Batarian. Wtf you' gonna do with blade armor in platinum ...

Lol wut?
stupid with soldiers?
Batarian vanguard poinless on plat?
Lift nades + stasis is a good combo for plat?

Are you sane, dude?

Very Sane. I've never used the batarian so who knows kiddo.

Second off, lift + stasis is gonna handle any lower troops you have.

Idk if when you people make these posts you're talking about solo'ing ... but in a team game, saying stasis + lift grenades is a bad mix would be the stupidest thing I've ever heard ..
dude, do you understand the only thing you CAN'T stop in a matter of seconds with that combo is bosses? Any other enemy will be downed in a matter of seconds. Freeze a Phantom in stasis, R@pe it with the nades. Nuff said. Same goes for any other non-boss enemy,

And I hardly use soldiers, but I never see them used in platinum. So. Idk.

But actually I did use the BF3 soldier in plat before and did decent. So. who knows

Modifié par Chief Capo, 30 novembre 2013 - 10:32 .

[Kislitsin]

Lift + stasis - totally phantom-centric build and actually quite good for solo, but in a decent team (3 of-host) - meh. On plat one needs to chew through armor fast, depleting the budget fast, so soldiers (ever single) and winfiltrators (every single) are a kings of platinum.
Actually any kit is plat viable, ANY.

[ManRightChea]

Chief Capo wrote...

Very Sane. I've never used the batarian so who knows kiddo.

Second off, lift + stasis is gonna handle any lower troops you have.

Idk if when you people make these posts you're talking about solo'ing ... but in a team game, saying stasis + lift grenades is a bad mix would be the stupidest thing I've ever heard ..
dude, do you understand the only thing you CAN'T stop in a matter of seconds with that combo is bosses? Any other enemy will be downed in a matter of seconds. Freeze a Phantom in stasis, R@pe it with the nades. Nuff said. Same goes for any other non-boss enemy,

And I hardly use soldiers, but I never see them used in platinum. So. Idk.

But actually I did use the BF3 soldier in plat before and did decent. So. who knows

While I do agree that Stasis and Lift nades are still quite useful on Plat, to say that you never see Soldiers used on Plat means you don't play enough Plat. That is the only thing that means. It is either that or the people you do play with  are lacking in skill and are too afraid to play Plat with any other kit than that one kit they determine themselves to be okay with. 

Not all of us Plat players need a cloak to hide behind in order to kick some major ass.

[Chief Capo]

ManRightChea wrote...

Chief Capo wrote...

Very Sane. I've never used the batarian so who knows kiddo.

Second off, lift + stasis is gonna handle any lower troops you have.

Idk if when you people make these posts you're talking about solo'ing ... but in a team game, saying stasis + lift grenades is a bad mix would be the stupidest thing I've ever heard ..
dude, do you understand the only thing you CAN'T stop in a matter of seconds with that combo is bosses? Any other enemy will be downed in a matter of seconds. Freeze a Phantom in stasis, R@pe it with the nades. Nuff said. Same goes for any other non-boss enemy,

And I hardly use soldiers, but I never see them used in platinum. So. Idk.

But actually I did use the BF3 soldier in plat before and did decent. So. who knows

While I do agree that Stasis and Lift nades are still quite useful on Plat, to say that you never see Soldiers used on Plat means you don't play enough Plat. That is the only thing that means. It is either that or the people you do play with  are lacking in skill and are too afraid to play Plat with any other kit than that one kit they determine themselves to be okay with. 

Not all of us Plat players need a cloak to hide behind in order to kick some major ass.

All I play is platinum mode, I mean ALL I play is platinum mode. Haven't played silver, bronze in months, and haven't played gold in a matter of weeks,  Everyday I host games (I never join them due to the chance of lag) And i'm sticking with the fact that I do see the particle rifle + Destroyer combo quite a bit, but as for any other soldiers? No I haven't seen any other soldiers in weeks, Maybe it's that I only play PUG matches as I've just gotten hip to BSN a week ago, so you might be right about the second part, but that's definitely not me, I use any kit I feel like , and do end up carrying more often than not...

[Kislitsin]

So the reasoning is: you host plat pugs, see nothing but lolfiltrators flamers and juggs = soldiers are stupid for platinum... interesting.

[Chief Capo]

Kislitsin wrote...

So the reasoning is: you host plat pugs, see nothing but lolfiltrators flamers and juggs = soldiers are stupid for platinum... interesting.

Lol, got me, How could I forget the Most overused character in mass effect? The geth trooper. -

And Juggs, yes ....

Guess I'm a bit overtired and forgot they were all soldiers lol, Matter of fact, I was just playing with both of those earlier .. '


So yes, I was dearly wrong, and contradicted myself in an earlier post when I said "Every team benefits from a jug soldier on platinum"

Modifié par Chief Capo, 30 novembre 2013 - 11:06 .

[Kislitsin]

Every _good_ team doesn't benefit from jug. Actually, jug in a good team is a dead weight.

[Chief Capo]

Kislitsin wrote...

Every _good_ team doesn't benefit from jug. Actually, jug in a good team is a dead weight.

Wrong. A Good Jug in A good Team Will benefit in almost every way besides getting the match done the at the fastest speed.. but what does speed matter?

It takes all the damage, Maintains mob control at a great level, and it's kit is pretty good, knocks little characters off with siege pulse, has a healing turret which can benefit not only itself but other teammates .... Like I said before, it shines in situations where teams use strategys like fortifying a specific position ( like the beginning spawn in firebase giant)

Not to mention the team will face less downed teammates, easier time on some objectives, etc.

Maybe you should've quit it while you were ahead, the only way you can possibly be correct is if the jug player sucks, and that's not the jugs fault, that's the players fault.

Modifié par Chief Capo, 30 novembre 2013 - 11:24 .