93 réponses à ce sujet

[shawn-m]

…Racist? I don’t know about that, but Bioware’s known for dismissing employees after they’ve died, for pie-facing the occational pastry chef and of course, breaking vitious wind in elevators crowded with small children and midgets.

[Invalidcode]

-Solrek- wrote...

Invalidcode wrote...

Any creative person could invent a racially diverse Fantasy world.

So your version of 'creative person' is to copy & paste the races we have in our real world to the game?

No. My point is that it is evidence that excluding races is a CHOICE. So when people complain about that CHOICE being made, they have a point.

We got to take the agree to disagree route then. Because keep going would be pointless. It's like people complaining about no polearms in the game, because Bioware choose not to inculde them.

Next thing you know they are going to throw rocks at Bioware because they choose not to inculde horse in the game, oh wait...

[XOGHunter246]

let the game dlcs and sequel come out as i saw on map there an upper region which we have not seen

[-Solrek-]

pathenry wrote...

-Solrek- wrote...
This is fiction, not human history, so they could create any world they wanted to. By choice they created a world dominated by Caucasians. I'm Asian and I find it extremely annoying...

How many Asian games are dominated by Caucasians?

Plenty are not, you probably just do not know of, or even notice them.

But it does go to show that Asians have no problems playing as other races. Perhaps it is the Caucasians who have issues playing as other races, which is why their games are all dominated by Caucasian protagonists and game worlds.

[aries1001]

And yet, BIoware has made an entire rpg set in ancient Asian settings - Jade Empire. If you like, I think you can play as an character that looks Asian?



Every thing we do requires a choice; Bioware decided this time around to set the game in Ferelden which is, by devs. own admission, comparable to medieval Europe. In 11th century or 14th century Europe, seeing Asians or Africans would have been highly exotic.



As for racism in the game, there is plenty... Elves are looked down upon, have been kept as slaves, Dalish Elves dream of restoring their once glorified Elven nations, Dwarf Nobles look down upon the Dwarf Commoners in the game. and so on...

[Ibian]

This entire thread should just be deleted on account of rampant stupidity.

[Sharpus]

There are no bigger racist than black people, I tell you.

[Adria Teksuni]

-Solrek- wrote...

My problem is that Bioware invented this world. This is fiction, not human history, so they could create any world they wanted to. By choice they created a world dominated by Caucasians. I'm Asian and I find it extremely annoying that the Fantasy genre is so slow to progress towards integrating other races into the mythos. Any creative person could invent a racially diverse Fantasy world.

Bioware had a chance to create a Fantasy world that is racially diverse and instead went the "derivative" route, failing to push the genre forward and continuing to perpetuate Caucasian dominated gaming experiences.

Granted, they did make that choice, and they chose to base it on medival Europe.  Just like Jade Empire did not have some derivative of Europeans (just the one that I can recall), Africans, or South Americans running around, DA is the same.  You say they made that choice, yes, but they made it based on how well that setting worked for the overall storyline, not because they were sitting around giggling "Mwahahahaha...this will show 'em!"

Africans, Arabs, Indians, Asians, etc. were incredibly rare in greater Europe, except for along the Mediterranean.  To have them included in this game would have rang false in terms of the inspirational content.  As our knowledge of Thedas expands, perhaps there will be a Moroccan or Algerian themed country.  That would make sense.

In games where it "works", like Knights of the Old Republic and Mass Effect, there are as many variations of human skin tone as there are actual races.  In games where it doesn't, like JE and DA:O, there isn't.

But calling out Bioware for racism when they DO have games like KoTOR and ME is rather foolish, IMHO.

[GHL_Soul_Reaver]

pathenry wrote...

GHL_Soul_Reaver wrote...
...they are there and mainly it is because of human ignorance and stupidity... you could take something about the Alaska people going like... well the ice is melting and causing problems... and would soon vanish... then some stupid retarded lady or gentleman say like that there is to much of it.. nothing would happen... and go all like being in a dreamworld where angels are singing 24/7 even though the house slowly is getting flooded technically.

Are you off your meds again?

Just being honest... could be any issue... I just remember that phrase from somewhere... people in the middle east and places everywhere in the world are just as ignorant, tendency seem to be lower in certain parts of the world though but that is just how as it is, we need to take care of people more government wise so they can actually get a sight into how stuff is in general.

Saying I am off my meds... well that is just an opinion, but to be honest then by saying this... then you technically proclaim yourself as one of those people mentioned or still in the denial phase refusing to see how it really is.

Also I would like to say, I have nothing against the Alaska people, I actually got some friends who is living in Alaska even though I am an Euro I still take my chance to try and meet other people as it is... and often it is only a small potion of people that are lesser enlightened, don't condemn me because I am being honest.

[-Solrek-]

Adria Teksuni wrote...

-Solrek- wrote...

My problem is that Bioware invented this world. This is fiction, not human history, so they could create any world they wanted to. By choice they created a world dominated by Caucasians. I'm Asian and I find it extremely annoying that the Fantasy genre is so slow to progress towards integrating other races into the mythos. Any creative person could invent a racially diverse Fantasy world.

Bioware had a chance to create a Fantasy world that is racially diverse and instead went the "derivative" route, failing to push the genre forward and continuing to perpetuate Caucasian dominated gaming experiences.

Granted, they did make that choice, and they chose to base it on medival Europe.  Just like Jade Empire did not have some derivative of Europeans (just the one that I can recall), Africans, or South Americans running around, DA is the same.  You say they made that choice, yes, but they made it based on how well that setting worked for the overall storyline, not because they were sitting around giggling "Mwahahahaha...this will show 'em!"

Africans, Arabs, Indians, Asians, etc. were incredibly rare in greater Europe, except for along the Mediterranean.  To have them included in this game would have rang false in terms of the inspirational content.  As our knowledge of Thedas expands, perhaps there will be a Moroccan or Algerian themed country.  That would make sense.

In games where it "works", like Knights of the Old Republic and Mass Effect, there are as many variations of human skin tone as there are actual races.  In games where it doesn't, like JE and DA:O, there isn't.

But calling out Bioware for racism when they DO have games like KoTOR and ME is rather foolish, IMHO.

Okay, when did I call Bioware Racist?

I applaud Bioware for Jade Empire, even though it is built on Asian sterotypes.
I criticize Bioware for making DAO a derivitave Medieval, Western European caucasian dominated fantasy world when they could have invented a much more diverse world. To me it is a step back from the courage they displayed by producing Jade Empire.

[Saurran]

And the evil menace of political correctness rears its ugly head once again...

[keesio74]

-Solrek- wrote...

My problem is that Bioware invented this world. This is fiction, not human history, so they could create any world they wanted to. By choice they created a world dominated by Caucasians. I'm Asian and I find it extremely annoying that the Fantasy genre is so slow to progress towards integrating other races into the mythos. Any creative person could invent a racially diverse Fantasy world.

Bioware had a chance to create a Fantasy world that is racially diverse and instead went the "derivative" route, failing to push the genre forward and continuing to perpetuate Caucasian dominated gaming experiences.

That is because the whole western fantasy genre is mostly based off Tolkien, which is based off medieval anglo fantasy. So hence it is anglo-centric. Basically we are playing a games based on anglo mythology.

It has been plainly stated that Ferelden is loosely based on the medieval UK and Orlais is loosely based on medieval France.

What you are looking for are games not based off the standard anglo mythology of knights, elves, dwarves, wizards and such.

Modifié par keesio74, 18 décembre 2009 - 08:03 .

[bjdbwea]

Let's keep political correctness at least out of video games. Please? And let's reserve the term "racist" for situations where it's actually appropriate. That's not the case here, because there are valid reasons for the game to be as it is.

[-Solrek-]

keesio74 wrote...

-Solrek- wrote...

My problem is that Bioware invented this world. This is fiction, not human history, so they could create any world they wanted to. By choice they created a world dominated by Caucasians. I'm Asian and I find it extremely annoying that the Fantasy genre is so slow to progress towards integrating other races into the mythos. Any creative person could invent a racially diverse Fantasy world.

Bioware had a chance to create a Fantasy world that is racially diverse and instead went the "derivative" route, failing to push the genre forward and continuing to perpetuate Caucasian dominated gaming experiences.

That is because the whole western fantasy genre is mostly based off Tolkien, which is based off medieval anglo fantasy. So hence it is anglo-centric. Basically we are playing a games based on anglo mythology.

It has been plainly stated that Ferelden is loosely based on the medieval UK and Orlais is loosely based on medieval France.

What you are looking for are games not based off the standard anglo mythology of knights, elves, dwarves, wizards and such.

Have you read my last post?

I agree that DAO is another unimaginatige derivative of Tolkien's world. That is part of my point. I criticize them for not being more creative, especially when they have the opportunity to push the genre forward and make it more inviting for a racially diverse modern world.

[Felix_Domestica]

GHL_Soul_Reaver wrote...

Felix_Domestica wrote...

I'm seeing people complaining as "There are no black people in game, only caucian... Is the game pointing to racism or what?" x)

No.

Its just that in medival time, people were divided. In, lets say ...10th century, there were not planes and people couldn't travel as easily as today. You couldn't see a black people in england, and you couldn't see indians in africa etc. Dragon age is set in medival time. Ferelden nation only know of thedas as continent, which climate isn't one that is epecially warm. It's like europe.

Did any of the europe\\\\\\\\ferelden nations had need for the dark skin, which helps protect against skin cancer that develops as a result of ultra-violet radiation? No.

Were the races divided at the medival time due to the lack of easy travel? Yes. 

And those things explains why there are no black people in Ferelden. So...stop ranting. 

There is Elves and Dwarfs... what more would you like?... even some of the the characters got a darker middle east alike tan as well, so what is the problem?

Also if you speak about history... back in the day it was not like there was a hell of alot of races wandering around, as there is now a day, it is a matter about staying in era kind of idealogy... but it does not mean you cannot see any actual foreign people in game, they are there if you look a bit around... you don't need to go more far than loitering to start seeing them unless you seriously have screwed up the way how colours show, eg different blend options set custom and not to what it should be and such... then there is plenty of variety.

There is no black dwarves... there is no actual black elves either, maybe we would get dark elves at some point... and dark dwarves... who knows but just the races you see around should be enough to tell people that there actually is a racial blend... though humans hate elves... and dwarves hating everybody that is not living 10 feet under... then I seriously do not know the issue by making this thread as it is, in game it is more about enlightment that slowly gains honor with the different people as well as doing stuff to make a change... on any of the sides race wise in this game you meet fanatics in each there way... what is so bad about that? it happens in real life everyday in the community each one of us lives in, saying otherwise would be denying that there actual might be some problems weather if it is racial... religion wise or political.. they are there and mainly it is because of human ignorance and stupidity... you could take something about the Alaska people going like... well the ice is melting and causing problems... and would soon vanish... then some stupid retarded lady or gentleman say like that there is to much of it.. nothing would happen... and go all like being in a dreamworld where angels are singing 24/7 even though the house slowly is getting flooded technically.

You didn't understood me. I didn't complain about "no black people in ferelden, its racism!". I complained about people that complain about "no black people in ferelden, its racism!". More clear now? x) If that is not clear, read my post again. Put your eyeglasses this time.

[Stitch808]

bjdbwea wrote...

Let's keep political correctness at least out of video games. Please? And let's reserve the term "racist" for situations where it's actually appropriate. That's not the case here, because there are valid reasons for the game to be as it is.

Good idea. This thread holds no merit.

[Felix_Domestica]

aries1001 wrote...

And yet, BIoware has made an entire rpg set in ancient Asian settings - Jade Empire. If you like, I think you can play as an character that looks Asian?

Every thing we do requires a choice; Bioware decided this time around to set the game in Ferelden which is, by devs. own admission, comparable to medieval Europe. In 11th century or 14th century Europe, seeing Asians or Africans would have been highly exotic.

As for racism in the game, there is plenty... Elves are looked down upon, have been kept as slaves, Dalish Elves dream of restoring their once glorified Elven nations, Dwarf Nobles look down upon the Dwarf Commoners in the game. and so on...

This.
I was telling this. I didn't tell "I WANT ****S IN GAME!"

[Adria Teksuni]

-Solrek- wrote...
Okay, when did I call Bioware Racist?

I applaud Bioware for Jade Empire, even though it is built on Asian sterotypes.
I criticize Bioware for making DAO a derivitave Medieval, Western European caucasian dominated fantasy world when they could have invented a much more diverse world. To me it is a step back from the courage they displayed by producing Jade Empire.

I am so sorry, I should have clarified that I was responding both to your post and to those calling Bioware racist.  Mea culpa!  The "ZOMG BIOWARE R HATERZ" regarding race posts have been there, but no, certainly not in yours.

I do agree that JE was a great leap in diversifying the worlds for CRPGs, but I don't see DA:O as a step backwards.  I liked that they took a more forward approach in strongly identifying fantasy nations with real ones, giving each a definite flavor even if you never get to visit there in game.  I believe because they chose to take that approach, they chose a region that the majority of CRPGers are familar with, medieval Europe.

A lot of that identification would have been lost if they had chosen a lesser well known setting, like Persia, Mongolia, or Algeria. 

[GHL_Soul_Reaver]

Felix_Domestica wrote...

GHL_Soul_Reaver wrote...

Felix_Domestica wrote...

I'm seeing people complaining as "There are no black people in game, only caucian... Is the game pointing to racism or what?" x)

No.

Its just that in medival time, people were divided. In, lets say ...10th century, there were not planes and people couldn't travel as easily as today. You couldn't see a black people in england, and you couldn't see indians in africa etc. Dragon age is set in medival time. Ferelden nation only know of thedas as continent, which climate isn't one that is epecially warm. It's like europe.

Did any of the europe\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ferelden nations had need for the dark skin, which helps protect against skin cancer that develops as a result of ultra-violet radiation? No.

Were the races divided at the medival time due to the lack of easy travel? Yes. 

And those things explains why there are no black people in Ferelden. So...stop ranting. 

There is Elves and Dwarfs... what more would you like?... even some of the the characters got a darker middle east alike tan as well, so what is the problem?

Also if you speak about history... back in the day it was not like there was a hell of alot of races wandering around, as there is now a day, it is a matter about staying in era kind of idealogy... but it does not mean you cannot see any actual foreign people in game, they are there if you look a bit around... you don't need to go more far than loitering to start seeing them unless you seriously have screwed up the way how colours show, eg different blend options set custom and not to what it should be and such... then there is plenty of variety.

There is no black dwarves... there is no actual black elves either, maybe we would get dark elves at some point... and dark dwarves... who knows but just the races you see around should be enough to tell people that there actually is a racial blend... though humans hate elves... and dwarves hating everybody that is not living 10 feet under... then I seriously do not know the issue by making this thread as it is, in game it is more about enlightment that slowly gains honor with the different people as well as doing stuff to make a change... on any of the sides race wise in this game you meet fanatics in each there way... what is so bad about that? it happens in real life everyday in the community each one of us lives in, saying otherwise would be denying that there actual might be some problems weather if it is racial... religion wise or political.. they are there and mainly it is because of human ignorance and stupidity... you could take something about the Alaska people going like... well the ice is melting and causing problems... and would soon vanish... then some stupid retarded lady or gentleman say like that there is to much of it.. nothing would happen... and go all like being in a dreamworld where angels are singing 24/7 even though the house slowly is getting flooded technically.

You didn't understood me. I didn't complain about "no black people in ferelden, its racism!". I complained about people that complain about "no black people in ferelden, its racism!". More clear now? x) If that is not clear, read my post again. Put your eyeglasses this time.

I did... I just did not want people to think about I was ranting about something else as it is.... and technically I agree to that there is some kind of blend... then got sidetracked a bit and back on again, wasn't meant to be meant wrong, happens once and a while due to being a foreign person actually, my native language is not english as it is hehe.

Sorry if you took it wrong... just was on the thing there is more races and the likes and even people with a darker and lighter tan here and there.

[Felix_Domestica]

No hard feelings. I love you too!

[Felix_Domestica]

Aries1001, Call me racist, but I don't wanna play a game with characters with strange eyes...

Modifié par Felix_Domestica, 18 décembre 2009 - 08:18 .

[thebuggiman]

GTA:S is racism i couldnt choose a white guy...

i could only be black.. okay no problem ? but i had to shoot white people? that wasent racist but!

in vice city the game was called racism cause you were a white guy shooting black people

WHAT THE HELL?

[-Solrek-]

Adria Teksuni wrote...

I am so sorry, I should have clarified that I was responding both to your post and to those calling Bioware racist.  Mea culpa!  The "ZOMG BIOWARE R HATERZ" regarding race posts have been there, but no, certainly not in yours.

I do agree that JE was a great leap in diversifying the worlds for CRPGs, but I don't see DA:O as a step backwards.  I liked that they took a more forward approach in strongly identifying fantasy nations with real ones, giving each a definite flavor even if you never get to visit there in game.  I believe because they chose to take that approach, they chose a region that the majority of CRPGers are familar with, medieval Europe.

A lot of that identification would have been lost if they had chosen a lesser well known setting, like Persia, Mongolia, or Algeria. 

No need to apologize. I take no offense.

I think a cool region for a fantasy world would be something like the Mediterranean. You have Italy, Spain, France, and Germany to the North. Persia, India, and China to the East. Africa to the South. Lots of trade and wars. Of course you would fictionalize it all. But it could be such a culturally diverse fantasy world, and far more intersting in my humble opinion.

I think many of us have already experienced the Tolkien universe in a multitude of forms.

[bzombo]

Adria Teksuni wrote...

What Ferelden needs is a good Moorish attack. That's what Ferelden needs.

it's the moops!

moors!

[pathenry]

thebuggiman wrote...
GTA:S is racism i couldnt choose a white guy...
i could only be black.. okay no problem ? but i had to shoot white people? that wasent racist but!
in vice city the game was called racism cause you were a white guy shooting black people
WHAT THE HELL?

You must not question hypocrisy, comrade.
Must we send you back to multiculturalism re-education camp?

*sparks two jumper cable clips together*
*sneers*