35 réponses à ce sujet

[ThatOneN00B]

 I was just wondering if this is a design error or a design intention, but when I use SS sometimes, the enemy AI, whether it be Cerberus, Geth or Reapers, 40% of the time track me SS'ing and they turn around and melee me out of SS cause them no damage. This applies to guardians as well, they track me, turn around and I do no damage because they are facing me. Also, is SS supposed to always go behind the enemy? I've had some instances where I SS and I'm in the enemies face. I would appreciate some feedback. Thank you for your time.

[MuKen]

It happens if they are aware of you. Cloak from out of LoS then do it and they won't do that.

[Aaron360]

It happens too frequently. Even when I cloak and not in the line of sight of some enemies, they face me and melee. And no it doesn't always place you behind, it'll put you on the side or in front if the game determines you can't get behind.

[Lynx7725]

The way SS appears to work is this:

On trigger, place you -- likely uncloaked -- in a position with melee range of target. This position is dependent on whether there is enough room to place your model 'physically', if there isn't, SS won't trigger. It also mean you can be placed facing the enemy's front. Very obvious when you are attacking a Trooper who has his back against a wall.

After your model is placed, the system then move your POV to the new position. Note that given your model is already in the new position, and likely uncloaked, the enemy is already reacting to your new position. Meanwhile, you are still in transit.

Once your transit occurs, the actual, damaging SS kicks in and the animation triggers. Attack occurs and hits the enemy in his reacted state. I believe at this point if you are still supposed to be cloaked, the system reapplied the cloak at the point of animation triggering, but by then the enemy would have already reacted.

Enemy reaction times are typically shortened on higher difficulties. On Bronze you can still solo a Guardian and sometimes catch him off guard. I doubt this is possible on Gold. Best thing to do is to have a Designated Decoy to draw the Guardian's attention, then sushi him with SS.

[DarkKat48]

Geth Flamethrowers always seem to be able to get me regardless of cloaking before hand or not. I can see why they would not want to make the stealth of SS make you drop all aggro since that would make it over powered but I definitely think it could be tweaked a bit. As it is right now it just gets one into trouble. I would like to see it have a trainable ability or something that allows a chance or lets you chain it quicker with Electric Slash

[joker_jack]

Cloak--->SS---->Profit

[IllusiveManJr]

People are saying it's because of line of sight, but that's not true.

[MaxShine]

DarkKat48 wrote...

Geth Flamethrowers always seem to be able to get me regardless of cloaking before hand or not. I can see why they would not want to make the stealth of SS make you drop all aggro since that would make it over powered but I definitely think it could be tweaked a bit. As it is right now it just gets one into trouble. I would like to see it have a trainable ability or something that allows a chance or lets you chain it quicker with Electric Slash

You are a very 'brave' space ninja trying to shadow strike a Pyro, I would not get near that mf to give him no chance to make me look bad

[Lynx7725]

theillusiveman11 wrote...

People are saying it's because of line of sight, but that's not true.

It's not only Line of Sight. It's more the enemy's ability -- particularly the target's -- to detect you, and that is very obviously not just LoS based.

Fact is, we don't actually know how the AI determines if a particular enemy can detect you. It looks to be a combination of visual and distance factors, but we don't really know how exactly.

[Black Phantom]

Enemy tracking in this game is outrageous. In a recent match I just played, I witnessed an Atlas rocket pull a 180 degree U-turn in midair just to hit me while I was using SS.

[kamzor]

Ashen Earth wrote...

Enemy tracking in this game is outrageous. In a recent match I just played, I witnessed an Atlas rocket pull a 180 degree U-turn in midair just to hit me while I was using SS.

As vanguards have noticed since for ever <_<

[Lynx7725]

Ashen Earth wrote...

Enemy tracking in this game is outrageous. In a recent match I just played, I witnessed an Atlas rocket pull a 180 degree U-turn in midair just to hit me while I was using SS.

That's not just a tracking issue. The missile has locked onto you and it's reasonable for it to attempt to course-correct to hit you. What's not acceptable is ( A ) whether it has any right to lock onto you prior to firing (particularly if you are cloaked already), and ( B ) that a rocket has the kind of manuevaurability to do a 180 degree U-turn.

Otherwise, Space Magic.

[IllusiveManJr]

Lynx7725 wrote...

theillusiveman11 wrote...

People are saying it's because of line of sight, but that's not true.

It's not only Line of Sight. It's more the enemy's ability -- particularly the target's -- to detect you, and that is very obviously not just LoS based.

Fact is, we don't actually know how the AI determines if a particular enemy can detect you. It looks to be a combination of visual and distance factors, but we don't really know how exactly.

I know, I'm just telling people. I've seen a lot of posts saying, "It's because they saw you, just break line of sight." It's completely untrue. I targeted a Hunter through the top of the map on Vancouver through the building to the bottom part. I didn't even know he was there and he still turned around and melee'd me. Obviously no line of sight there. That's just an example.

[Prawny]

It's another lag issue I think, they were doing it to me last night, but only every 1/10 strikes or something.

[Rebel_Raven]

Yeah, it's starting to make SS a real gamble. Kinda annoying.

[DarkKat48]

100RenegadePoints wrote...

DarkKat48 wrote...

Geth Flamethrowers always seem to be able to get me regardless of cloaking before hand or not. I can see why they would not want to make the stealth of SS make you drop all aggro since that would make it over powered but I definitely think it could be tweaked a bit. As it is right now it just gets one into trouble. I would like to see it have a trainable ability or something that allows a chance or lets you chain it quicker with Electric Slash

You are a very 'brave' space ninja trying to shadow strike a Pyro, I would not get near that mf to give him no chance to make me look bad

I tend to get away with it after pepping a few shots from my Paladin or a follow up shot with the paladin.  Specced to use 1 power while cloaked and the follow up Electric Slash does wonders to drain the shield so my team can take them down easier.  They just love to file up in nice lines and walk.

[Canavar404]

Cloak, do your best and step back with covering fire.
My way to use Shadow - Hit & Run - Scout on platinum:

[Lynx7725]

theillusiveman11 wrote...
I know, I'm just telling people. I've seen a lot of posts saying, "It's because they saw you, just break line of sight." It's completely untrue. I targeted a Hunter through the top of the map on Vancouver through the building to the bottom part. I didn't even know he was there and he still turned around and melee'd me. Obviously no line of sight there. That's just an example.

Ah ok, it's not a great example, I'll demonstrate why.

The problem in this case is that when you triggered SS, the system immediately place you next to the Hunter. This means you are definitely within detection range of the Hunter -- 3m is the typical melee range, and this distance is definitely within detection range of most enemy. The immediate placement is even before your PoV changes, which is why sometimes you can glimpse yourself popping into place next to the enemy -- and the enemy reacting! -- before your PoV changes.

The issue here is timing. The system positioned you somewhere where the Hunter could detect you, the Hunter reacted as parameterized, and started melee'ing you... all this even before your PoV has changed, to not even bother saying activating the SS animation. The root cause is the sequencing of events as implemented by Bioware (IMO), which at this time looks to be intentional; you have to ensure the target is preoccupied with something (teammate or a drone), before SS'ing.

[IllusiveManJr]

Lynx7725 wrote...

theillusiveman11 wrote...
I know, I'm just telling people. I've seen a lot of posts saying, "It's because they saw you, just break line of sight." It's completely untrue. I targeted a Hunter through the top of the map on Vancouver through the building to the bottom part. I didn't even know he was there and he still turned around and melee'd me. Obviously no line of sight there. That's just an example.

Ah ok, it's not a great example, I'll demonstrate why.

The problem in this case is that when you triggered SS, the system immediately place you next to the Hunter. This means you are definitely within detection range of the Hunter -- 3m is the typical melee range, and this distance is definitely within detection range of most enemy. The immediate placement is even before your PoV changes, which is why sometimes you can glimpse yourself popping into place next to the enemy -- and the enemy reacting! -- before your PoV changes.

The issue here is timing. The system positioned you somewhere where the Hunter could detect you, the Hunter reacted as parameterized, and started melee'ing you... all this even before your PoV has changed, to not even bother saying activating the SS animation. The root cause is the sequencing of events as implemented by Bioware (IMO), which at this time looks to be intentional; you have to ensure the target is preoccupied with something (teammate or a drone), before SS'ing.

That was just one example. I really don't want to list others again.

[Catastrophy]

I only had this happen once, and only when I didn't cloak before SS. Sometimes you are placed in front of them, like Lynx describes. That sucks against guardians but you just have to pick your target well.
Be more sneaky, if you aren't sneaky enough the enemy will keep being suspicious and search you out. Covering fire by mates helps distracting them.

[Lynx7725]

theillusiveman11 wrote...
That was just one example. I really don't want to list others again.

I understand. Likely it'll all boil down to that split second when the system places your model next to the target. It looks to be you're literally naked there for everyone to see (even if you start cloaked) and react to.

It's a bit annoying, but also a challenge to overcome. I guess it depends on your outlook on things.

[IllusiveManJr]

Lynx7725 wrote...

theillusiveman11 wrote...
That was just one example. I really don't want to list others again.

I understand. Likely it'll all boil down to that split second when the system places your model next to the target. It looks to be you're literally naked there for everyone to see (even if you start cloaked) and react to.

It's a bit annoying, but also a challenge to overcome. I guess it depends on your outlook on things.

That's exactly what I said but nobody listened. LOL

[Homey C-Dawg]

SS's definitely got some "not your fault but your dead anyway" bugs.

It helps to make sure they lose you as a target before using SS. Might take a few seconds after you cloak.

[SoulWeaver]

I only got the N7 Shadow yesterday, but while in the 6 matches I played with her it seemed that enemies would only do that when they were facing me before I cloaked.

[count_4]

Lynx7725 wrote...

The way SS appears to work is this:

On trigger, place you -- likely uncloaked -- in a position with melee range of target. This position is dependent on whether there is enough room to place your model 'physically', if there isn't, SS won't trigger. It also mean you can be placed facing the enemy's front. Very obvious when you are attacking a Trooper who has his back against a wall.

After your model is placed, the system then move your POV to the new position. Note that given your model is already in the new position, and likely uncloaked, the enemy is already reacting to your new position. Meanwhile, you are still in transit.

Once your transit occurs, the actual, damaging SS kicks in and the animation triggers. Attack occurs and hits the enemy in his reacted state. I believe at this point if you are still supposed to be cloaked, the system reapplied the cloak at the point of animation triggering, but by then the enemy would have already reacted.

Enemy reaction times are typically shortened on higher difficulties. On Bronze you can still solo a Guardian and sometimes catch him off guard. I doubt this is possible on Gold. Best thing to do is to have a Designated Decoy to draw the Guardian's attention, then sushi him with SS.

All accruate except the bolded part. You can slice a Guardian just fine on any difficulty.