138 réponses à ce sujet

[Lynx7725]

mrwizeguy wrote...

Thanks again Mr Holmes.

Do they take into account objectives or only player position ?

I can say I've looked at spawn point selection, and it seems that objective location positioning seems to be affected by spawn point and vice versa. So spawning has some relationships, and from there AI detection would kick in and thus look to have some relationship.

[Lynx7725]

Here's some entertaining ideas.

Designated Banshee Kiter: If you didn't notice, on some waves, Banshees are VERY quiet at the beginning. This could be because there wasn't anyone to lock onto at the start of spawn. Once someone gets close though, or she "peeks", she starts wailing.

A canny team can exploit by having a Designated Banshee Kiter, probably a Drell who has the speed to stay sufficiently away. Get him in closer, shoot at the Banshee, keep her locked on the Drell while the rest of the team kill other stuff. Kite her around in peace and quiet.. hard to do, to be honest.

Also, as it turns out SMGs and ARs may have a bigger role than expected, for CCs at least. Using SMGs and ARs to pot at the enemy likely would raise their detection score of you, that makes you effectively the "tank" which takes the enemy "aggro". The guns are light enough that you can still use something else, giving you the ability to pull enemies... then neutralize, say with a Cryo Falcon, while the rest of the team do something, like rolling a ball (Escort).

[Brenon Holmes]

Drayce333 wrote...

OK but can you tell us why submission net says it does massive damage to armored targets but it doesn't in reality?

That doesn't really seem like it has anything to do with the topic... so... not really, sorry.

ProfGast wrote...

Thanks for the info! I've always been curious on how the target evaluation is done (I'm often at the wrong end of the AI's targetting despite being farther away, in cover, etc etc.) I guess I'm good at staying in good firing arcs?

Odds are if you feel like you have good lines of fire on the enemy, they're thinking the same thing about you... unless you have a nice elevation advantage. You could also be getting dumped on by any infiltrator friends... less visible targets for them means more enemies targetting you. :happy:

mrwizeguy wrote...

Thanks again Mr Holmes.

Do they take into account objectives or only player position ?

Just player position.

OneTrueShot wrote...

Would you be able to clarify on this a little more? So very often I feel like I'm targetted based on rank or being the highest scorer. Are these two factors?

 

Nope - current score, rank, level, class... none of those are weighted at all. I did have a cheat in for a while that looked up a co-worker's name and targetted him specifically... but that was just during development - it's not live. :innocent:

Angel Beats wrote...

I have one question: Is score being taken into account?

Brenon I read that there is no aggro system, but by god it sure feels like it a little. xD I feel like I pull the enemies attention away from my teammates way too much. Heh.

Distance does play a rather large role - so if you're in melee range you're more likely to be considered a threat. If you run up with your Paladin and shield smash a guy, he's probably going to spin around and try to feed you his claw.

Lynx7725 wrote...

I guess that's why they have to cheat. Some spawn points are "hidden", no direct LOS. This I "know" is because player LOS into a spawn point will "diminish" the probability of spawning, so spawn point design has to cater for that. Without peeking, the units would just... stay put? 

That's sort of a different thing, we just don't really want players to see enemies spawn usually... since it looks bad to see guys appear out of thin air. :happy:

When they spawn, they do get seeded with some initial perception data though (they cheat). This lets them know where everyone is at spawn time so they have a rough idea about where to go to find enemies.

So, detection is weighed.. hmm. I also take it on faith that AI units share "hearing" info: "Hey Bob, I hear a rat scampering around below. Go check it out?"

Hearing data was shared at one point... I don't know that it is anymore, since it wasn't that useful for the AIs.

Thus it's more accurate to describe Tactical Cloak as a detection debuff power? Some options there for new powers really. I see now how decoy can work, simply by forcing itself to be higher on the priority list. 

 

Sort of, TC also has some other effects in the power itself that helps manipulate how enemies react to it. I believe it can force enemies to re-evaluate if any are currently targetting you. That's probably a good way of looking at it though.

(and that's correct about Decoy, they're effectively weighted a lot higher)

Modifié par Brenon Holmes, 27 juillet 2012 - 06:18 .

[ka243]

Im curious as to why banshees totally ignore decoys. Is the target priority messed up on them? This seems to be the case with brutes too. However brutes are interested in combat drones. Banshees seem to ignore those too. Maybe its a bug.

I always take shock on my decoys. Will enemies be more attracted to a shocking decoy than a non shocking one?

[ProfGast]

Thanks for the snappy responses again Brenon. A couple of random related questions: does Cerberus smoke block any LOS for anyone except human players? Or do all factions have Thermal Goggles?

Are certain classes/races easier to see/have higher sighting weights? (Krogan, Batarian, Turian)

[Lynx7725]

ka243 wrote...

Im curious as to why banshees totally ignore decoys. Is the target priority messed up on them? This seems to be the case with brutes too. However brutes are interested in combat drones. Banshees seem to ignore those too. Maybe its a bug.

I always take shock on my decoys. Will enemies be more attracted to a shocking decoy than a non shocking one?

I had Banshees locked onto my Drones before, once creating a traffic jam when she blocked the Brute behind. Drones have a set number of units it can "lock up", and this was reduced "recently" to the best of my knowledge. It is entirely possible that the Banshee is ignoring the Drone because the number of units potting at the Drone is at the its maximum -- we can't control which enemy units lock onto the Drone.

EDIT: Correction, was for Drones, not Decoy.

Modifié par Lynx7725, 27 juillet 2012 - 06:33 .

[Dorryn]

If enemies can only see in a cone in front of them, why is it that when I throw a biotic at an enemy who's turning his back on me, half the time they'll dodge it?

[DarkSpooky]

Mr. Holmes, how does this account for the enemies being able to notice you shadow striking them, IE turning around before you actually hit them and then attacking you?

[BjornDaDwarf]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

Nope - current score, rank, level, class... none of those are weighted at all. I did have a cheat in for a while that looked up a co-worker's name and targetted him specifically... but that was just during development - it's not live. :innocent:

That's awesome!  Was it any of the devs who are also active on these boards? 

[ka243]

I have less experience with bandhees and drones because i rarely play drone characters on higher difficulties but i know banshees will regularly ignore my decoy even if its the only enemy around. It just beeline teleports to the nearest player.

[Qror_pl]

Brenon Holmes wrote...
So if a Geth Trooper is standing next to a Prime, he can tell the Prime when he sees you. Then the Prime sort of knows where you are.

Just like Geth were meant to exist in the lore

[Jonathan Shepard]

Dorryn wrote...

If enemies can only see in a cone in front of them, why is it that when I throw a biotic at an enemy who's turning his back on me, half the time they'll dodge it?

Shared visual information, perhaps? But I've had this happen when there's only one engineer with his back turned in the basement on glacier before, so that' can't always be the case. 

[AbhijitSM]

What about geth rocket troopers detection. Theirs seems to be the most ridiculous in the game . They start firing at you as soon as they spawn maybe or start firing rockets when they are behind a wall when they have not even see you or also when a player is behind them at a good distance (say 15 feet) out of their sight but they seem to just turn around & fire in some milliseconds.

Is this working intentionally or just a glitch ??

[Stahlhammer]

Qror_pl wrote...

Brenon Holmes wrote...
So if a Geth Trooper is standing next to a Prime, he can tell the Prime when he sees you. Then the Prime sort of knows where you are.

Just like Geth were meant to exist in the lore

If that was the case the presence of just 1 hunter on the field would give up your position
to ALL Geth units, so, I’d say, it's "lore adjusted".

Modifié par Stahlhammer, 27 juillet 2012 - 06:51 .

[Hypertion]

enemys include if a player is is cover as part of how they determine what is a easier target right? from my observations this also is part of what allows a Decoy to be effective, if all players are in cover then the decoy is also the easiest target. ive noticed that players in cover are often less likley to be targeted than one that is exposed and standing, but it could be just chance so i thought i would try to ask.

[Brenon Holmes]

 

ka243 wrote...

Im curious as to why banshees totally ignore decoys. Is the target priority messed up on them? This seems to be the case with brutes too. However brutes are interested in combat drones. Banshees seem to ignore those too. Maybe its a bug.

I always take shock on my decoys. Will enemies be more attracted to a shocking decoy than a non shocking one?

Certain enemies can't actually fight some of the player pets, mostly because the player pets don't have any proper collision... so melee attacks don't really work properly against them. Those types of enemies generally just ignore them (currently there are some bugs with that bit of code).

ProfGast wrote...

Thanks for the snappy responses again Brenon. A couple of random related questions: does Cerberus smoke block any LOS for anyone except human players? Or do all factions have Thermal Goggles?

Are certain classes/races easier to see/have higher sighting weights? (Krogan, Batarian, Turian)

 

Smoke blocks enemy vision, just like it does for the player. Bigger player meshes would be *slightly* easier to see under certain circumstances... but not really in any noticeable way.

Dorryn wrote...

If enemies can only see in a cone in front of them, why is it that when I throw a biotic at an enemy who's turning his back on me, half the time they'll dodge it?

 

That's a separate mechanic that really doesn't have anything to do with perception really - enemies just have the ability to dodge projectiles, there are % chances for that to trigger and various cooldowns.

An easy way to deal with them is either to shoot at them to trigger an evade, then immediately throw your power as they can't evade anymore (on cooldown). Or you can get the AoE evolutions on your powers and if you arc them down you'll hit even though they dodge (AoE tags them). Or just back to back powers if you have really short CDs.

DarkSpooky wrote...

Mr. Holmes, how does this account for the enemies being able to notice you shadow striking them, IE turning around before you actually hit them and then attacking you?

I'm not really sure about that one, but if I had to guess - when you "teleport" you probably make a footstep noise at the new location which they would hear and possibly react to (especially if they were already targetting you).

AbhijitSM wrote...

What about geth rocket troopers detection. Theirs seems to be the most ridiculous in the game . They start firing at you as soon as they spawn maybe or start firing rockets when they are behind a wall when they have not even see you or also when a player is behind them at a good distance (say 15 feet) out of their sight but they seem to just turn around & fire in some milliseconds.

Is this working intentionally or just a glitch ??

 

There are some problems with rocket fire for the geth yes, but those mostly have to do with in-cover fire delays vs out of cover fire delays (sometimes they're able to double-rocket). The behaviour you're describing sounds like what most enemies should be able to do (though reaction times are different based on difficulty usually) - it's probably just more noticeable since it's a big ass rocket flying at your head? :happy:

Hypertion wrote...

enemys include if a player is is cover as part of how they determine what is a easier target right? from my observations this also is part of what allows a Decoy to be effective, if all players are in cover then the decoy is also the easiest target. ive noticed that players in cover are often less likley to be targeted than one that is exposed and standing, but it could be just chance so i thought i would try to ask.

 

Yep, though the decoy also has other mechanics to encourage enemies to target it as well. :happy:

Modifié par Brenon Holmes, 27 juillet 2012 - 07:05 .

[mrwizeguy]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

Hearing data was shared at one point... I don't know that it is anymore, since it wasn't that useful for the AIs.

Excuse me in am being dumb or something here and a bit of topic...

But does this line confirm there are stealth changes in the game ? because i cant recall seeing anyof these posted.



On topic thanks for the direct answear Mr Holmes.

[Brenon Holmes]

mrwizeguy wrote...


Excuse me in am being dumb or something here and a bit of topic...

But does this line confirm there are stealth changes in the game ? because i cant recall seeing anyof these posted.



On topic thanks for the direct answear Mr Holmes.

No... the things I'm referring to there were modified before ship. Any hotfixes/balance modifications are posted in Eric's notes... and I believe the policy for patches is similar (though in a different place?). :happy:

Modifié par Brenon Holmes, 27 juillet 2012 - 07:12 .

[Mozts]

I have to say: This thread is awesome.

I know there was already a answer about a class and levels, but what about races? Do enemies target a big slow Krogan the same way they target a ninja-like Drell?

[Brenon Holmes]

Mozts wrote...

I have to say: This thread is awesome.

I know there was already a answer about a class and levels, but what about races? Do enemies target a big slow Krogan the same way they target a ninja-like Drell?

They do, but they're more likely to hit the Krogan (since he's bigger and slower). Enemies have a bit of aim lag, so if you're moving perpendicular to the direction of fire, you're a less likely to get hit... especially if you're moving extremely quickly.

Modifié par Brenon Holmes, 27 juillet 2012 - 07:13 .

[Silkerin]

oh, now I think I understand why is hard for bosses *brute/banshee* to destroy the turrets, and guess a little about the placement of them...

[ParanoidDrone]

Just wanted to say that it's quite awesome for Bioware to be sharing information on the enemy AI like this. I'm actually quite interested in the specifics of Decoy and Tactical Cloak mechanics now that it's been brought up.  Any chance that could be shared, or is that going into too much detail?

Modifié par ParanoidDrone, 27 juillet 2012 - 07:44 .

[N7Kopper]

This is a very good read.
Although I'm not a pure numbers munchkin when it comes to character builds, I always like to eke out advantages such as this from the enemy AI.

[mrwizeguy]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

 Enemies have a bit of aim lag, so if you're moving perpendicular to the direction of fire, you're a less likely to get hit... especially if you're moving extremely quickly.

Since you brought this up , i would like to ask a few more things.

Let me clear a few things first. We know that enemy has a shooting delay ( for example geth hunter has 0.25sec ) is this the "aim lag" you are talking about or is it another factor?

So , my question here is , if you run past the ememy behind him , is there a turning speed value calculated or regardles the angle you will be shot at a .25s rate?

I find that the enemy has no "sensitivity" turning speed values set and has amazing speeds at lock,turn,shoot.

[N7Kopper]

More people need to read this thread.