138 réponses à ce sujet

[Big Ben6898]

To combat the instakill upon revive (and if playing as a character with a dodge move) simply press the dodge button/key and pick a direction. You're character will immediately roll and begin the get up animation again (or sometimes be up and ready to actually do something). You can do this a number of times to avoid being brutally beaten, shot, burned, or otherwise injured.

[DarthVarner]

Big Ben6898 wrote...

To combat the instakill upon revive (and if playing as a character with a dodge move) simply press the dodge button/key and pick a direction. You're character will immediately roll and begin the get up animation again (or sometimes be up and ready to actually do something). You can do this a number of times to avoid being brutally beaten, shot, burned, or otherwise injured.

This doesn't always work.  Granted, the difference might be latency, but I have a very good (30 Mbps) connection and can list many instances where despite attempted dodges, I have zero player control from hitting Medigel to getting a sword-filled belly.  

From a programming perspective this might be a tough one to fix, and I realize that, so I'm just putting it out there.  When it happens it's quite frustrating, but game-breaking it is not.

I imagine on the console versions this scenario has resulted in the demise of several controllers, though.  

RIP controllers.  

Modifié par DarthVarner, 29 juillet 2012 - 05:31 .

[DnVill]

Mr. Holmes,

Thanks to the reply on the Geth Prime issue. I have another question regarding the enemy spawns on Platinum.

Is there a distance radius in which the enemy is allowed to spawn after getting killed? Is it different to gold? I have been attempting platinum solo runs and 90% of the time I get downed because almost every time I kill an enemy:

it would spawn either in the room less than 20 meters next to me which 5 secs ago was clear

or

They spawn directly behind me and when I get to kill that one, I check my six only to realize a new one has spawned 3 meters beside the last one. When this instant spawning happens it would always occur in batches of three.

On Gold, they doesn't seem to spawn in the room directly next to the player, though occasionally they spawn behind in batches but not as bad as platinum.


It would help a lot if you could shed some light on their spawning behaviors.

[Arcataye]

Thank you for all the information Mr. Holmes.

Interesting that the enemies have hearing and such, I always thought they just knew  where you are. Would be nice to see some stealth elements in the game other than tactical cloak, especially if there were dark maps with flashlights (like in SP Tuchanka catacombs and the AY monastery). But sadly I don't think that'll happen.

Modifié par Arcataye, 29 juillet 2012 - 09:28 .

[Lynx7725]

Ladies and Gents,

As the OP, can I ask that we keep the thread on target and constrain to AI detection -- and with Brenon's blessings -- targetting?

I know it's rare that we get a Dev speaking to us on "behind the curtain" mechanics, and there are a lot of things we want to ask. But let's stick to the topic, and not drag all the bugs and complaints in.

I'll do a compilation and updated the OP later with the information that Brenon has shared, so that the thread can be a repository for future people who wish to know more about the subject matter.

[N7Kopper]

I don't even have a comment this time.
Except that the new light shed just shows how damn brilliant the AI is in this game.

[saecula]

Why does it seem that the geth are all easily fooled by a salarian decoy, but reapers and cerberus aren't? Are reapers and cerberus just all programmed to ignore them?

[soultaker65]

I don't know if this has been asked but what determines if a boss attack one player instead of the other 3 player?

Lets say all four player are attacking a prime what makes the prime attack one player instead of the other players?

Is it who's doing the most damage, who's in cover, who's closest to the boss, the player with the most points, or something else?

[.458]

I guess one last question, and once more, praise for feedback! It means a lot.

Since it is possible for the enemy to hear the action of going into tactical cloak, which one is louder...the sound of cloak, or slow footsteps? I'm wondering about how to decide if stealth is more likely to get me caught a few meters behind and under cover than simply walking up slowly behind the enemy with no stealth on.

Modifié par .458, 29 juillet 2012 - 12:31 .

[Revrant]

OHKs tend to be one of the most frustrating things in the game because they're 100% random, they also invalidate melee classes as a result, have you guys ever considered telegraphing some of that OHK AI behavior to help that?

Modifié par Revrant, 29 juillet 2012 - 01:06 .

[Bleachrude]

Revrant wrote...

OHKs tend to be one of the most frustrating things in the game because they're 100% random, they also invalidate melee classes as a result, have you guys ever considered telegraphing some of that OHK AI behavior to help that?

All of the OHK moves are telegraphed...It's just that when you're in the heat of battle with two banshees screaming at you, people forget about them...

1. Atlas and Phantoms have to do a melee move first BEFORE they go for the OHK.
2. Banshees have to have their barriers up.
3. Brutes (I think they have to charge and melee first before they go fro the OHK)

[Exosnake]

Bleachrude wrote...

Revrant wrote...

OHKs tend to be one of the most frustrating things in the game because they're 100% random, they also invalidate melee classes as a result, have you guys ever considered telegraphing some of that OHK AI behavior to help that?

All of the OHK moves are telegraphed...It's just that when you're in the heat of battle with two banshees screaming at you, people forget about them...

1. Atlas and Phantoms have to do a melee move first BEFORE they go for the OHK.
2. Banshees have to have their barriers up.
3. Brutes (I think they have to charge and melee first before they go fro the OHK)

Banshees definately do NOT need to have their barriers up.

Armor only Banshee can grab as well and it has happened to me more than once.

[Big Ben6898]

DarthVarner wrote...

Big Ben6898 wrote...

To combat the instakill upon revive (and if playing as a character with a dodge move) simply press the dodge button/key and pick a direction. You're character will immediately roll and begin the get up animation again (or sometimes be up and ready to actually do something). You can do this a number of times to avoid being brutally beaten, shot, burned, or otherwise injured.

This doesn't always work.  Granted, the difference might be latency, but I have a very good (30 Mbps) connection and can list many instances where despite attempted dodges, I have zero player control from hitting Medigel to getting a sword-filled belly.  

From a programming perspective this might be a tough one to fix, and I realize that, so I'm just putting it out there.  When it happens it's quite frustrating, but game-breaking it is not.

I imagine on the console versions this scenario has resulted in the demise of several controllers, though.  

RIP controllers.  

I didn't mean to insinuate that it was a 100% chance avoidance manuever just that it gives you a better opportunity to survive the resurrection process when surrounded.  Although it is almost impossible to execute this when you're meleed or missiled upon resurrection.  Whether hosting or not I am able to do these rolls so I don't know if that really makes any difference besides the possibility of lag (and an enemy doing something to counter what you've done before you see it).

It's definitely a rather annoying and frustrating moment, but not enough to cause the demise of a controller...at least for me.

[Urdnot Trex]

Bump to see if we can get more answers from Mr. Holmes!

P.s. does anyone every call you Sherlock?

[darkchaosbunny]

Big Ben6898 wrote...

DarthVarner wrote...

Big Ben6898 wrote...

To combat the instakill upon revive (and if playing as a character with a dodge move) simply press the dodge button/key and pick a direction. You're character will immediately roll and begin the get up animation again (or sometimes be up and ready to actually do something). You can do this a number of times to avoid being brutally beaten, shot, burned, or otherwise injured.

This doesn't always work.  Granted, the difference might be latency, but I have a very good (30 Mbps) connection and can list many instances where despite attempted dodges, I have zero player control from hitting Medigel to getting a sword-filled belly.  

From a programming perspective this might be a tough one to fix, and I realize that, so I'm just putting it out there.  When it happens it's quite frustrating, but game-breaking it is not.

I imagine on the console versions this scenario has resulted in the demise of several controllers, though.  

RIP controllers.  

I didn't mean to insinuate that it was a 100% chance avoidance manuever just that it gives you a better opportunity to survive the resurrection process when surrounded.  Although it is almost impossible to execute this when you're meleed or missiled upon resurrection.  Whether hosting or not I am able to do these rolls so I don't know if that really makes any difference besides the possibility of lag (and an enemy doing something to counter what you've done before you see it).

It's definitely a rather annoying and frustrating moment, but not enough to cause the demise of a controller...at least for me.

Actually, if a phantom camps you, you want to be missiled or shot at by a prime when you get up as it stunlocks you into stumbling again and keeps you in invincibilty mode as you stumble right into the sync kill. Sure you drop but you will get back up immediately and the phantom's sync kill will be on cooldown allowing you to run, unless the prime shooting you stunlocks you for the phantoms uber palm cannon of death then you had no chance anyway.

[wirelesstkd]

To the question of getting revived, I think that a brief period where the enemy ignores you would be appropriate. Something like a one second grace period before the enemy "sees" you again.

Also, bump, in case we might get some more answers

[N7Kopper]

Exosnake wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

Revrant wrote...

OHKs tend to be one of the most frustrating things in the game because they're 100% random, they also invalidate melee classes as a result, have you guys ever considered telegraphing some of that OHK AI behavior to help that?

All of the OHK moves are telegraphed...It's just that when you're in the heat of battle with two banshees screaming at you, people forget about them...

1. Atlas and Phantoms have to do a melee move first BEFORE they go for the OHK.
2. Banshees have to have their barriers up.
3. Brutes (I think they have to charge and melee first before they go fro the OHK)

Banshees definately do NOT need to have their barriers up.

Armor only Banshee can grab as well and it has happened to me more than once.

He was referring to physical barrier particle effects, not the HP kind of barrier.
Confusing, I know.

[Mgamerz]

Is the geth drone going to be fixed? I mean, the computer keeps saying they use rockets every loading screen... Perhaps turn down gethprimerifle damage and move some to the drone rockets? Cause right now the drone is kind of pointless.
It would be like running away from an atlas missile that you can hear closing in...
and then a small BOOM!
Just like the sentry turret rocket (I never use the combat drone one)

Modifié par Mgamerz, 30 juillet 2012 - 04:08 .

[wirelesstkd]

Mgamerz wrote...

Is the geth drone going to be fixed? I mean, the computer keeps saying they use rockets every loading screen... Perhaps turn down gethprimerifle damage and move some to the drone rockets? Cause right now the drone is kind of pointless.
It would be like running away from an atlas missile that you can hear closing in...
and then a small BOOM!
Just like the sentry turret rocket (I never use the combat drone one)

If they do fix the drone I hope they nerf his turret. I HATE that thing

[upinya slayin]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

Lynx7725 wrote...

Can we get a Dev clarification on enemy detection algorithms?

<snip>

I'll go over a few of the systems and hopefully that will answer some of your questions? :happy:

Perception (Sight / Hearing)

Vision works within a cone and has a set radius. Outside of that cone and radius, they can't see. Enemies will periodically do LOS tests from their 'eyes' to the player, abiding by the peripheral vision cone and sight radius values.

There is some small amount of sharing, if a couple enemies are near each other they can pass information to each other (though this data isn't as good as them having seen the player for themselves). So if a Geth Trooper is standing next to a Prime, he can tell the Prime when he sees you. Then the Prime sort of knows where you are.

Hearing works within a radius but isn't as strong a type of perception as vision - it gives them a rough idea about where a player is. All sorts of things the player does trigger sound events... walking, firing your gun, using a power, dying... etc. You also generate sound when you fire past an enemy (they hear the sound of your shot flying past their head). From that they can get a general idea about where the shot came from.

Different types of sound make different amounts of noise...

Targetting is based on a whole mess of factors - there is no "aggro" system. Enemies will evaluate all the possible targets periodically (every second or so) and select the best one, if a different target is better (if they think they'd have a better chance of killing the other target), they'll often switch... though they do like to keep their current target if they're fairly close in terms of value.

Example Target Weight Factors:
* Range
* Stealth
* Old Target
* Player vs Henchman
* Perception
* "Good" firing arcs
* etc.

i appreciate the info but how do the big bosses decide who to target. there can be 3 players in front of a rpime all shooting it, yet it'll snipe me cross map when i'm not even looking at it? If i'm not looking does that mean it feels i'm an easier target? so essentaily not shooting at it draws aggro?

[Exosnake]

N7Kopper wrote...

Exosnake wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

Revrant wrote...

OHKs tend to be one of the most frustrating things in the game because they're 100% random, they also invalidate melee classes as a result, have you guys ever considered telegraphing some of that OHK AI behavior to help that?

All of the OHK moves are telegraphed...It's just that when you're in the heat of battle with two banshees screaming at you, people forget about them...

1. Atlas and Phantoms have to do a melee move first BEFORE they go for the OHK.
2. Banshees have to have their barriers up.
3. Brutes (I think they have to charge and melee first before they go fro the OHK)

Banshees definately do NOT need to have their barriers up.

Armor only Banshee can grab as well and it has happened to me more than once.

He was referring to physical barrier particle effects, not the HP kind of barrier.
Confusing, I know.

point taken. Didn't think about than one.

[underm1nd]

Thanks alot for the info, knowing how the game works really makes tactics and survival easier.

As for turrets shooting cloaked players, and especially geth turrets, i think that this has to do with prime drones more than bugs, because from experience when theres an active drone it reveals your location not only to the prime but to all enemy units in the vicinity right?

And one more question that wasnt asked or i probably missed - whats with cannibals totally ignoring players and just running in to feed on dead bodies? Thats not really a problem, as it allows me to deal with 2-3 cannibals at a time without getting hurt, but it still kinda annoys me when a cannibal just sprints through the middle of the battlefield totally ignoring that hes getting shot at just to start feeding on a body and die in the process.

[ka243]

About player pets and boss enemies: can you specify which boss enemies are supposed to ignore which pets?

From your post it seems that banshees are always supposed to ignore decoys. I dont find this necessarily logical but ok. What about other pets and other bosses? Are all bosses supposed to ignore all pets? If so this would be a big buff to bosses and a big nerf to the si on platinum where almost all enemies are bosses in later waves.

I would be quite surprised if shock on decoy doesnt draw more aggro than a non shocking decoy because when enemies collide with the decoy they seem to turn around.

Also concerning melee attacks and decoy : if enemies stopped trying to melee the decoy (they only shot it from a distance, shock would be basically useless because no enemy would ever get in melee range of it.

Modifié par ka243, 31 juillet 2012 - 04:16 .

[Sabina261187]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

And final questions, since me and my buddies have been talking about it, and I like to think that way; does your decoy attract more attention when it's colored in awful Tutti-Frutti colors than if it was in total camuflage-color and then, does the enemy spot you more after destroying your decoy, because you just "teached" them to go after "you" as a decoy? Could be awesome if that is true... Thanks in advance!

hehe, nope... sorry.

Aaaaw... That's rly sad, it should be like that! 
Maybe cerberus' helmets doesnt show colors, and the rest is just colorblind... ? 
Anyway, thank you for answering my questions... 

[N7Kopper]

underm1nd wrote...
And one more question that wasnt asked or i probably missed - whats with cannibals totally ignoring players and just running in to feed on dead bodies? Thats not really a problem, as it allows me to deal with 2-3 cannibals at a time without getting hurt, but it still kinda annoys me when a cannibal just sprints through the middle of the battlefield totally ignoring that hes getting shot at just to start feeding on a body and die in the process.

That's intentional stupidity.
Think about how, in a more fantasy-oriented game, there may be a script for enemies far too weak to pose a threat to flee, but some enemy types, such as a berserker, would ignore that script.

The Cannibal enemy is called that because that's what they do. It's actually canon that this process also makes them more intelligent, so they're less likely to do something so damn stupid again for the rest of their lives if they successfully feed.