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[Face of Evil]

brushyourteeth wrote...

I'll have you know my farm supplied eggplant to half the Bannorn.

Yeah? Well, my eggplant supplied half the bastards in South Reach! 

Modifié par Face of Evil, 27 juillet 2012 - 05:35 .

[brushyourteeth]

Face of Evil wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

I'll have you know my farm supplied eggplant to half the Bannorn.

Yeah? Well, my eggplant supplied half the bastards in South Reach! 

Face of Evil, you never disappoint. 

[ladyofpayne]

CELL55 wrote...

I'm sure not all Orlesians are pompous jerks, but darn if I can think of any right now.

Julien, Nicolas, Genevieve, Bregan from Calling.
Julien also really noble- strong and with perfect education.

Modifié par ladyofpayne, 27 juillet 2012 - 12:51 .

[septembervirgin]

Maclimes wrote... 

Templar v Mage v Chantry: This is the continuation of DA2. In the novels, the Chantry attempts to be reasonable towards mages, so the Templars break away from the Chantry. So you have the Templars (now a seperate entity) fighting against the Mages, who have dissolved the Circles and are now fighting openly. Both groups are at odds with the Chantry itself, although less directly.

This indicates to me that the Mages are going to seek Tevinter aid and the wiser blood mages and apostates will try to make their way to Tevinter, especially with an escalation of violence in their naturalized regions.  I had thought Tevinter might wisely refocus their efforts on espionage rather than slavery worldwide.

Qunari v Tevinter: The Qunari are at war, openly, with the Tevinter. Though the Tevinter have greater numbers and more powerful magic, the Qunari have gatlok (gunpowder) and tougher soldiers. They seem to be at a stalemate currently, but the balance of power could shift.

Qunari and Tevinter seem to have a cold war, a diffident struggle that cannot quite become as open as the two would like.  

Qunari v Everyone: The Qunari are not subtle about their desire to spread the Qun to the world, and they intend to do so via conquest. Just about any nation in Thedas could find themselves on the recieving end of a Qunari invasion.

I see this happening soon.  
The Qun interest seems to be more in actualizing a foothold on a continent.  With the brewing internal dissonance in Orlais, it looks like the Qun will eventually be assailing Orlais for a better aim at Tevinter.  Ferelden would also be a likely target as would the Freemarches.  My guess is that a certain port city would be targeted by Tevinter to extract mages from the area -- and also be subject to Qunari military goals.   From that locus, the Qunari could take the coast fortresses of the Marches.  They'd be foolish to assail Ferelden or anywhere else before making solid foothold in the Marches.  This attack could be seen as reasonable by other nations, but Tevinter would want to offer help to any remaining Marches once half of it is subdued; frantic allies are beholden unto their alliance.

I once assumed that DA3 would involve Qun invasion of Orlais.  I am probably rushing things.  We will receive note, no doubt of an attack on the Marches and its progress, unless I'm mistaken.  IMHO, it's Tevinter that will mount an attack on Orlais sooner than the Qunari.

Imperial Chantry v Andrastian Chantry: The chantry of Tevinter and the chantry of Andraste (based out of Orlais) have been at odds since they were founded. It cycles between a "cold war" and periods of bloodshed, but the conflict has not ebbed.

Tevinter v Orlais is brewing swiftly, IMHO.  Even a babe could see that Orlais is vulnerable.  I could see Maric interested in sending some assistance, but I don't see many armies forthcoming.  A few potent heroes and doughty companions might arrive though.  I do remember mentioning to someone that a Defensive March is a likely event in the near future of the Andrastian Chantry.  He (she?) opined that the Tevinter feel the Maker is a dragon and that was all.  What of Qun and Tevinter simultaneously invading Orlais?

Orlesian Civil War: We don't know much about this, other than the fact that several powerful nobles have banded together and are at war with the Empress and Val Royeux. What connection this has to other conflicts is not known, but it started at the same time as the Templar/Mage rebellion, and could be connected. If there's a "Orlais v Ferelden" factor, I suspect it will be here, with certain Fereldens secretly funding or aiding the rebel nobels in Orlais to weaken the country.

I think Ferelden will be more concerned with their own problems visa vis demons and abominations, possibly with Qun invading the Freemarches just North, and maybe with Templars trying to take land from Grey Wardens.

[azarhal]

I'm amazed that people act like if Nevarra doesn't exist. It's separate Tevinter and Orlais. It had more war with Orlais than any other countries/cities. The last one ended with a Nevarran's victory that saw Orlais lose lands. Also, all those mages in Asunder, they all moved in a fortress in Nevarra (in former Orlaisan lands).

Basically, if you need to go through the centre of Thedas to get somewhere, you'll have to go through Nevarra. If all Nevarrans are like Cassandra, any army doing so uninvited won't live long...

[Dintonta]

Spicen wrote...

Dintonta wrote...

Mmmh... Orlais, I 'd think : Those Fereldans are much too self-righteous to be honest... I don't trust them.

Ohhhh but the hanged man is so

No dear, there is nothing such crude in Orlais as your common Ferelden hangman. Let me explain...
Hangmen in Ferelden are just poor people who fell unprepared into that awful job, because they probably ran out of luck and money. They usually hate it, and since they are not overly shunned by the rest of the society, they finish their days in a crowded tavern, behind a pile of mugs, trying to forget in the ale the horrors of their trade.
As a result, they are often drunken brutes who butcher their victims a whole half-day, torturing them unwillingly, out of sheer clumsiness and ethylic stupor...
In Orlais, they have bourreaux instead. There is as much difference between a mere hangman and a constantly trained bourreau, than between a tavern brawler and a weapon master.
The charge of bourreau is a hereditary one : You are born bourreau, you don't become one.
Since their childhood, bourreaux are taught the tricks of the trade by assisting their parents, they are taught to overcome their repulsion and to keep a steady hand.
They are well paid and adequately equiped.
They are also protected by the lords (even if they are strongly reviled by the population and forbidden to go inside the Chantry). They keep sober and love their art with passion.
As a result, they can deliver a swift and clean death, make a show for a bloodthirsty crowd of torturing a poor convict, while actually minimizing his suffering.
Considering that important point of cultural difference, the whole question of "will you side with Ferelden or Orlais?" could resume to : "If you were given the opportunity to be beheaded apart from a fight (we should take this outcome seriously because, for all we know, BW may well decide to change their present 'hero-always-winning' policy in the next DA development), would you choose your own execution to take place in Ferelden... or in Orlais?
I know I would continue to stick with Orlais.

Modifié par Dintonta, 27 juillet 2012 - 03:58 .

[brushyourteeth]

Wasn't the hanged man thing just a reference to the Lowtown tavern? 

Nothing to do with Ferelden, of course, but that's where my mind took it.

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 27 juillet 2012 - 05:47 .

[Dintonta]

brushyourteeth wrote...

Wasn't the hanged man thing just a reference to the Lowtown tavern? 

Nothing to do with Ferelden, of course, but that's where my mind took it.

Woops, sorry! Since I didn't play DA2, I thought it was 'hangman' instead of 'hanged man'...
And since Orlais/Ferelden are loosely inspired from France/England, I made a comparison loosely inspired from the societal difference between medieval hangmen and bourreaux...

Modifié par Dintonta, 27 juillet 2012 - 06:06 .

[brushyourteeth]

Dintonta wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

Wasn't the hanged man thing just a reference to the Lowtown tavern? 

Nothing to do with Ferelden, of course, but that's where my mind took it.

Woops, sorry! Since I didn't play DA2, I thought it was 'hangman' instead of 'hanged man'...
And since Orlais/Ferelden are loosely inspired from France/England, I made a comparison loosely inspired from the societal difference between medieval hangmen and bourreaux...

Yeah, I read all that and I was like "wow" - really informative. It says a lot about the French that they even have fancy executioners!

Interestingly, DA2 actually takes us into Orlais in the Mark of the Assassin expansion. If you haven't seen anything from it, you should totally check it out on youtube. It's much prettier than anything we've seen from Ferelden or Kirkwall!

[Shadowvalker]

For ever Ferelden!

Don't support orlesian dressed up wannabe knights.! Always root for the little guy - even if that comes with the smell of wet dogs!
I just happen jo love the mabari - The notion that the legend says that the mabari left Tewinter and joined the barbarians is right up my ally.!
Don't forget dogs are sooooo good at reading people!

[Dintonta]

brushyourteeth wrote...
Yeah, I read all that and I was like "wow" - really informative. It says a lot about the French that they even have fancy executioners!

In RL, only the richest executionners answered to that description. The charge wasn't hereditary in itself, but in practice, executionners often buyied it to the lords for their sons (whom they trained). In the late 17e century and beginning 18e it became even an 'executionner's dynasty' : the Sanson family (the most famous of them being Charles Henri Sanson who, being the royal executionner, beheaded his own master king Louis XVI, and was the first executionner for the new French Republic... tough job).
I have been told the difference between the two conception of that trade in France and in England had much less to do with fanciness than with the Magna Carta that John Lackland had to sign in 1215. In France, both Justice and its execution was still the entire privilege of the king. In this context, it made the executionner the representative of the darker side of power : Paradoxically, it made him a pariah, but a very privilegied one.
The funny thing is that in all the Middle-Age until the French Revolution, there were much more executions in England than in France (I don't remember precisely the ratio, though, if it was about 1:2 or 2:3?)
Is it because the popular Justice was less forgiving than the royal one? Or because the royal judges take more bribes?

[LobselVith8]

ladyofpayne wrote...

Also Emperess Celine much better ruler than Anora. Emperess biuld Univerity in Orlais.

Queen Anora has the same plan to build a university in Denerim, and Empress Celene spoke highly of Anora, saying, "Anora of Ferelden is a solitary rose among brambles."

I think we might have to deal with a civil war in Orlais, although it's possible one faction might have ambitions to invade the neighboring nation of Ferelden.

[brushyourteeth]

LobselVith8 wrote...

ladyofpayne wrote...

Also Emperess Celine much better ruler than Anora. Emperess biuld Univerity in Orlais.

Queen Anora has the same plan to build a university in Denerim, and Empress Celene spoke highly of Anora, saying, "Anora of Ferelden is a solitary rose among brambles."

I think we might have to deal with a civil war in Orlais, although it's possible one faction might have ambitions to invade the neighboring nation of Ferelden.

Before or after she tried to steal her crown and her husband? 

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 27 juillet 2012 - 08:11 .

[Shadowvalker]

brushyourteeth wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

ladyofpayne wrote...

Also Emperess Celine much better ruler than Anora. Emperess biuld Univerity in Orlais.

Queen Anora has the same plan to build a university in Denerim, and Empress Celene spoke highly of Anora, saying, "Anora of Ferelden is a solitary rose among brambles."

I think we might have to deal with a civil war in Orlais, although it's possible one faction might have ambitions to invade the neighboring nation of Ferelden.

Before or after she tried to steal her crown and her husband? 

Spot on! Anora is truely Loghain's child! Two of a kind!

As the thief would say - I only steal when I get caught!

[Silfren]

Shadowvalker wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

ladyofpayne wrote...

Also Emperess Celine much better ruler than Anora. Emperess biuld Univerity in Orlais.

Queen Anora has the same plan to build a university in Denerim, and Empress Celene spoke highly of Anora, saying, "Anora of Ferelden is a solitary rose among brambles."

I think we might have to deal with a civil war in Orlais, although it's possible one faction might have ambitions to invade the neighboring nation of Ferelden.

Before or after she tried to steal her crown and her husband? 

Spot on! Anora is truely Loghain's child! Two of a kind!

As the thief would say - I only steal when I get caught!

That last comment was in reference to Celine, not Anora. 

[Silfren]

lewis251 wrote...

Fereldan is based on england and since i'm British i support them

although like Maclimes said i doudt DA3 will just have "one war" whlist ofcouse the templar Vs Mages Vs chanty war will be the biggest there will porbably be smaller ones like the Orlais civil war and then fereldan invading Orlais mini wars going on at the same time...

For sure.  Surely I'm not the only one who thinks that DA3 will aptly be subtitled The Battle of Five Armies.

[Silfren]

ladyofpayne wrote...

Also Emperess Celine much better ruler than Anora. Emperess biuld Univerity in Orlais.

There seems to be a lot of hate directed at Anora because people dislike her personality.  Nothing wrong with that, obviously, but it's a bit silly to conflate a person's personality with her ability to rule.  Disliking someone as a person really needs to be divorced from an assessment of their capabilities.

Objectively, Anora is a good ruler.  She may be a disagreeable PERSON, as far as her tendency to be a manipulator and a liar, but the available evidence rather strongly indicates that she is a very, very good ruler.  

She even acknowledges the distinction herself between being a good person and a good ruler when she makes the statement, "What Ferelden needs isn't another good man, but a strong ruler."  She's aware that there's a difference between being good and being strong, and realizes that sometimes the two are necessarily exclusive.

It would be nice to see interactions between these two queens, if the story were to go in a direction that allowed us to see Empress Celene and Queen Anora working together for the mutual benefit of both their lands.

[Shadowvalker]

Silfren wrote...

ladyofpayne wrote...

Also Emperess Celine much better ruler than Anora. Emperess biuld Univerity in Orlais.

There seems to be a lot of hate directed at Anora because people dislike her personality.  Nothing wrong with that, obviously, but it's a bit silly to conflate a person's personality with her ability to rule.  Disliking someone as a person really needs to be divorced from an assessment of their capabilities.

Objectively, Anora is a good ruler.  She may be a disagreeable PERSON, as far as her tendency to be a manipulator and a liar, but the available evidence rather strongly indicates that she is a very, very good ruler.  

She even acknowledges the distinction herself between being a good person and a good ruler when she makes the statement, "What Ferelden needs isn't another good man, but a strong ruler."  She's aware that there's a difference between being good and being strong, and realizes that sometimes the two are necessarily exclusive.

It would be nice to see interactions between these two queens, if the story were to go in a direction that allowed us to see Empress Celene and Queen Anora working together for the mutual benefit of both their lands.

Just don't get in her way! Does Ferelden really needs a strong ruler? Like Arland?

Even if she really is a very, very good ruler then why does she seems to agree with Loghain's way. She doesn't oppose him that much but seems to just give in to him. That does not bode well for Ferelden if you ask me.

A good person can just as well be a good ruler. To unite through fear earns you not respect for your personality but only respect for the strenth of your arm and your ability not to be honest.
To unite through respect for your people's diversity is a far better way which will earn you a voluntary chosen loyalty and not one out of fear.

I for one would NOT be loyal to a person as Anora - I'd rather leave Ferelden! That she even has a statue of Loghain put up in his honor if she is made queen says it all!

"Yes Dad - I know you killed my husband, blamed others for the deed and hunted them like dogs but anyway thank you for the crown!"

[LobselVith8]

Shadowvalker wrote...

Just don't get in her way! Does Ferelden really need a strong ruler? Like Arland?

Anora isn't like Arland, so I don't see how you can make claim the two are the same. Anora, unlike Cailan, actually bothered to rule Ferelden. Let's see: as an independent Queen, she becomes a popular Queen, refills the royal coffers, and builds a university (the first of its kind in the nation). I would say Queen Anora is a very capable leader.

As for Loghain, he freed Ferelden from oppressors who raped and murdered Fereldens for over a century; the man is the Hero of River Dane for a reason. As for condemning Anora for not openly opposing him at first, he had the loyalty of his armies, and she didn't know he killed Cailan when he returned. I don't see why you are vilifying Anora for this.

[ladyofpayne]

brushyourteeth wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

ladyofpayne wrote...

Also Emperess Celine much better ruler than Anora. Emperess biuld Univerity in Orlais.

Queen Anora has the same plan to build a university in Denerim, and Empress Celene spoke highly of Anora, saying, "Anora of Ferelden is a solitary rose among brambles."

I think we might have to deal with a civil war in Orlais, although it's possible one faction might have ambitions to invade the neighboring nation of Ferelden.

Before or after she tried to steal her crown and her husband? 

In medieval it was usual. Anora love Kailan because of his crown nothing more.

[Shadowvalker]

Anora is indeed a capable leader but not one I would trust! And she has NO real claim for the throne!

As I see it the unifier is Calenhad. Take that away and you'll just might start a war between the bann's. Arl Eamon might be forced to help Queen Anora in order to face the darkspawn but it would go against everything he believes in - which would be a cause for potiental furture problems for Ferelden. A house divided can not stand!

That she challange the royal bloodline is okay? Not in my book regardless of how good a ruler she can be. I think the word for that is high treason! It is not a question of picking af prime minister.

I don't vilify her for Loghain's actions but neither does she take a stand. Loghain is a general NOT a king he should be taking orders from her!. He may have the might to bully her - but I find it hard to believe that she would accept that. She oppose Alistair but not her father? No I don't buy it.
She may not know for certain that Loghain had a hand in her husbands death but she suspects it to be so.
She even tries to get the warden on her side in her effort to hold on to a throne that is not even hers?!  Remember Eamon's words about Anora - she plays people in order to gain what she wants - she played Cailan according to Eamon.

She is not of royal blood and therefore a usurper. In the country I live in we have a queen - if she dies her husband would NEVER be king although he holds the title of prince. The crown goes to next of kind - that be son, daughter, cousin or what ever, not a spouse.

If you make Alistair king - Anora won't even abandon the claim for the throne - Not a good sign! But that Alistair shows mercy and orders her to be locked up until he returns tells me that he is capable of good judgement on behalf of Ferelden and its furture should he die in the upcoming battle.

[CELL55]

@Shadowvalker
Anora may not be of the blood of Calenhad, but if Alistair either refuses or is unable to rule, then what choice do the people of Fereldan have? Unless Maric has another bastard around somewhere, then Alistair is the only living blood of Calenhad. If he won't/can't rule, then why not Anora? She has experience, is capable, was married to the last blood of Calenhad on the throne, and is potentially supported by the Warden. Without Alistair, Anora is the best shot Fereldan has of not just rebuilding it after the Blight, but also safeguarding it from foreign invaders (we all know elements in Orlais have their eyes on Fereldan).
Eamon and the rest will just have to learn to deal with it, as I can't think of any reasonable alternative.

[Shadowvalker]

CELL55 wrote...

@Shadowvalker
Anora may not be of the blood of Calenhad, but if Alistair either refuses or is unable to rule, then what choice do the people of Fereldan have? Unless Maric has another bastard around somewhere, then Alistair is the only living blood of Calenhad. If he won't/can't rule, then why not Anora? She has experience, is capable, was married to the last blood of Calenhad on the throne, and is potentially supported by the Warden. Without Alistair, Anora is the best shot Fereldan has of not just rebuilding it after the Blight, but also safeguarding it from foreign invaders (we all know elements in Orlais have their eyes on Fereldan).
Eamon and the rest will just have to learn to deal with it, as I can't think of any reasonable alternative.

I agree that without Alistair Anora is the best known solution to lack of leadership as I also sort of stated:

"But that Alistair shows mercy and orders her
to be locked up until he returns tells me that he is capable of good
judgement on behalf of Ferelden and its furture should he die in the
upcoming battle."

[ladyofpayne]

But Alistair deserves queen better than Anora.

[LobselVith8]

ladyofpayne wrote...

But Alistair deserves queen better than Anora.

Better? She wants to build a university - the first of its kind in Ferelden - and she manages to refill the royal coffers. I think she's an excellent Queen.

We see the disdain that Arl Eamon has for her, but it's also eluded to that he basically runs Ferelden as Chancellor unless Queen Anora rules alone, or rules with a personality hardened Alistair, and then he returns to Redcliffe. The mention in Witch Hunt further supports the notion that Eamon seeks power, so it isn't as though Eamon is entirely altruistic in not wanting Anora to remain Queen, despite her legal claim to the throne.

Alistair may be a direct descendant of Calenhad, but that doesn't really mean anything. Anora can rule Ferelden perfectly well on her own, and considering Cailan's inability to rule, she apparently was during the entirety of their marriage. Considering how Calenhad brought together the warring teyrnirs of Ferelden with the aid of Aldenon the Great, and then betrayed him, I don't see why anyone thinks the royal line should be respected. 

Anora is a brilliant leader, who is capable of resolving the problem with the nation's finances and starting a university that can have an irrevocable change for generations to come. If you pair Anora with a personality hardened Alistair, the Epilogue addresses that he agrees with her decisions in governing the land - which is an indication that even Alistair thinks she is effective as a leader to the people. The people of Ferelden become so happy with the two of them as rulers that they think all the horrors of the civil war and the Fifth Blight were worth it to bring them as the leaders of Ferelden.

I can see Queen Anora and a personality hardened Alistair as a force to be reckoned with if one of the factions in Orlais seeks to reclaim control of Ferelden. Perhaps Empress Celene will represent the faction that doesn't seek to overtly rule Ferelden.

Modifié par LobselVith8, 28 juillet 2012 - 11:20 .