539 réponses à ce sujet

[sammysoso]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Also Kaidan actually seems to give a damn that Ashley's dead where Ashley...just never mentions him.

Yeah, I noticed Kaidan brought up Ashley a bunch. Like after the Tuchanka Bomb mission.

Ashley brings up Kaidan if you bring her on the bomb mission, afterward she's at the memorial wall talking about Kaidan too.

[obZen DF]

I do agree that Ashley has less 'in-character' and 'content' than Kaiden in ME3. I have 2 important Sheps. 1 Ashley and 1 Kaiden. And the Shep with Kaiden showed that he's got alot more convo's and trust in Shepard. He even acknowledges that he's gay.

But, I still love Ashley. She may be in fact one of the more Human humans in the game. She acts like a real human would act. Not like Jack in ME2. "Oh you work with Cerberus? They only destroyed my entire life, but ok, I'll join you"
Now tell me, if you were in Ashleys situation, would you trust Shepard so easily after he's being dead for 2 years? And suddenly works with Cerberus? Without contacting you?
I would not.
I would question the hell out of Shepard. And I need to build up trust again. Maybe it's not even the real Shepard. Questions, questions.

[PSUHammer]

obZen DF wrote...

I do agree that Ashley has less 'in-character' and 'content' than Kaiden in ME3. I have 2 important Sheps. 1 Ashley and 1 Kaiden. And the Shep with Kaiden showed that he's got alot more convo's and trust in Shepard. He even acknowledges that he's gay.

But, I still love Ashley. She may be in fact one of the more Human humans in the game. She acts like a real human would act. Not like Jack in ME2. "Oh you work with Cerberus? They only destroyed my entire life, but ok, I'll join you"
Now tell me, if you were in Ashleys situation, would you trust Shepard so easily after he's being dead for 2 years? And suddenly works with Cerberus? Without contacting you?
I would not.
I would question the hell out of Shepard. And I need to build up trust again. Maybe it's not even the real Shepard. Questions, questions.

Actually, one of the writers on this forum said that Ashley has roughly the same amount of dialog that Kaiden has but much more on the CItadel whereas Kaiden has more on the Normandy.  It is mostly perception that Ash has less because you don't have many dialog wheel conversations with her on the ship.

And, I didn't read the entire thread, but have the ignorant people claiming she was racist stopped already?  She was somewhat xenophobic in the first game, but also anti Cerberus.  She isn't racist, just looking out for #1.  Which is what pretty much every single country on earth does, in real life.

Some people need to do some reading on what these terms mean.

[robertthebard]

obZen DF wrote...

I do agree that Ashley has less 'in-character' and 'content' than Kaiden in ME3. I have 2 important Sheps. 1 Ashley and 1 Kaiden. And the Shep with Kaiden showed that he's got alot more convo's and trust in Shepard. He even acknowledges that he's gay.

But, I still love Ashley. She may be in fact one of the more Human humans in the game. She acts like a real human would act. Not like Jack in ME2. "Oh you work with Cerberus? They only destroyed my entire life, but ok, I'll join you"
Now tell me, if you were in Ashleys situation, would you trust Shepard so easily after he's being dead for 2 years? And suddenly works with Cerberus? Without contacting you?
I would not.
I would question the hell out of Shepard. And I need to build up trust again. Maybe it's not even the real Shepard. Questions, questions.

Shepard, in answer to Jack's "Do you think I'm stupid?":  This station is going down in flames, I have the only way out, I'm offering to take you with me, and you're argueing.

Then, if you're not playing a Cerberus lap dog, she can tell.  If you give her unrestricted access, which means you give her access to the files, as there's no "limit" to what she can see other than what's available on the Normandy, she can grow to trust Shepard, not Cerberus.  Isn't it funny that, starting from the position you listed, she can grow to trust Shepard, but Ashley, who was with you from the start, can't?  The things you did in ME 1 and before can become known to Jack, but she wasn't there when it happened, so it's all second hand.  If you have Jack in the squad when you meet Ash she can tell her that there are other threats in the galaxy.  Of course, Jack's ME 3 initial greeting is a hell of lot funnier than Ashley's, since Jack punches you in the face.  Too bad if you have Garrus in the squad he doesn't just shoot Ashley in Horizon, and save a bullet in three.

Actions speak louder than words.  The only reason Ashley is standing there to spit in your face over Cerberus is because you saved her ass, for the second time.  Everything that you have been through together prior to that moment, including saving her life again, is erased by working for/with Cerberus, which ever way you choose to play it.  Of course, this adds to the "being a tool" when she says, as she walks off "I'll file my report and see what the Alliance decides to believe".  Well gee, I'd think they'd believe Shepard saved the colony, or most of it.  A fact that Ashley seems intent to ignore.

[PSUHammer]

robertthebard wrote...

Shepard, in answer to Jack's "Do you think I'm stupid?":  This station is going down in flames, I have the only way out, I'm offering to take you with me, and you're argueing.

Then, if you're not playing a Cerberus lap dog, she can tell.  If you give her unrestricted access, which means you give her access to the files, as there's no "limit" to what she can see other than what's available on the Normandy, she can grow to trust Shepard, not Cerberus.  Isn't it funny that, starting from the position you listed, she can grow to trust Shepard, but Ashley, who was with you from the start, can't?  The things you did in ME 1 and before can become known to Jack, but she wasn't there when it happened, so it's all second hand.  If you have Jack in the squad when you meet Ash she can tell her that there are other threats in the galaxy.  Of course, Jack's ME 3 initial greeting is a hell of lot funnier than Ashley's, since Jack punches you in the face.  Too bad if you have Garrus in the squad he doesn't just shoot Ashley in Horizon, and save a bullet in three.

Actions speak louder than words.  The only reason Ashley is standing there to spit in your face over Cerberus is because you saved her ass, for the second time.  Everything that you have been through together prior to that moment, including saving her life again, is erased by working for/with Cerberus, which ever way you choose to play it.  Of course, this adds to the "being a tool" when she says, as she walks off "I'll file my report and see what the Alliance decides to believe".  Well gee, I'd think they'd believe Shepard saved the colony, or most of it.  A fact that Ashley seems intent to ignore.

I don't think anyone disagrees that Ashley was being very disagreeable throughout ME2 and half of ME3.  But, one of the things I like about the characters in these games is that there are disagreeable and stubborn people in real life...as well as more relaxed and rational ones.

But, she isn't a racist.

[Krakefer.ch]

Tell me how she's not racist.

She did say during ME1 something like "hard to tell difference between aliens and animals"

[robertthebard]

Hammer6767 wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

Shepard, in answer to Jack's "Do you think I'm stupid?":  This station is going down in flames, I have the only way out, I'm offering to take you with me, and you're argueing.

Then, if you're not playing a Cerberus lap dog, she can tell.  If you give her unrestricted access, which means you give her access to the files, as there's no "limit" to what she can see other than what's available on the Normandy, she can grow to trust Shepard, not Cerberus.  Isn't it funny that, starting from the position you listed, she can grow to trust Shepard, but Ashley, who was with you from the start, can't?  The things you did in ME 1 and before can become known to Jack, but she wasn't there when it happened, so it's all second hand.  If you have Jack in the squad when you meet Ash she can tell her that there are other threats in the galaxy.  Of course, Jack's ME 3 initial greeting is a hell of lot funnier than Ashley's, since Jack punches you in the face.  Too bad if you have Garrus in the squad he doesn't just shoot Ashley in Horizon, and save a bullet in three.

Actions speak louder than words.  The only reason Ashley is standing there to spit in your face over Cerberus is because you saved her ass, for the second time.  Everything that you have been through together prior to that moment, including saving her life again, is erased by working for/with Cerberus, which ever way you choose to play it.  Of course, this adds to the "being a tool" when she says, as she walks off "I'll file my report and see what the Alliance decides to believe".  Well gee, I'd think they'd believe Shepard saved the colony, or most of it.  A fact that Ashley seems intent to ignore.

I don't think anyone disagrees that Ashley was being very disagreeable throughout ME2 and half of ME3.  But, one of the things I like about the characters in these games is that there are disagreeable and stubborn people in real life...as well as more relaxed and rational ones.

But, she isn't a racist.

Disagreeable would be one thing, but to straight out question your loyalty, after gunning down a couple of squads of Cerberus agents is another.  To carry that line of dialog on until she physically can't due to Eva Bot is beyond extreme, and the fact that she'll continue it, albeit shortly in the hospital is something else.  This rings more of Obssession than disagreeable.

[Pitznik]

Krakefer.ch wrote...

Tell me how she's not racist.

She did say during ME1 something like "hard to tell difference between aliens and animals"

Because it is actually easy to take a Hanar or an Elcor for an animal if you haven't talk with them?

[knightnblu]

You know, there was once a thread dedicated to this very discussion. In ME1 she was a strong, confident soldier who stuck by your side every inch of the way after you saved her life on Eden Prime. She even helped you boost an Alliance warship and mutinied in order to support you. In ME2 she did an about face.
 
In ME2 she directly accuses you of treason and treats you as if you were lower than whale excrement. Why? Because Cerberus took your corpse and reanimated you like some H.P. Lovecraft Herbert West reject. Oh, and since the corpse didn't phone during that period of time she was totally justified in treating you like a bastard step child on Horizon.
 
What's more, she never comes to see you while you are locked up despite being asked by Anderson to do so. She will write you a tepid email in ME2, but in ME3 you are dead to her. She loved you so much, that she had to cut you off like a gangrenous hand.
 
Despite all of this, if you bend over and grab your ankles for her, she will eventually take you back once she has drunk enough alcohol to be able to stand you once again. I have friends that say that she is nothing more than prestige **** who uses Shepard like a tampon in order to get her way and I believe that they are right.
 
She casts her lot with Shepard in ME1, saves the galaxy, and she is on the fast track to prestige and power. She experiences a meteoric rise in rank going from Gunnery Chief to Lt. Cmdr. in just two and a half years. She has a wonderful career in black ops and she has broken the Williams family curse and all she had to do is toss Shepard under the bus. Who says that you can't sleep your way to the top? It worked beautifully with Shepard.
 
The reunion with Williams is awkward to say the least. She continues to accuse him of treason, she lies to him repeatedly by telling him she trusts him when it is obvious that she doesn't, and ultimately she stares through her sights at him with her finger on the trigger and her front sight firmly positioned on his forehead. What a girl.
 
If anyone should have known Shepard and what he was about, it was Ashley Williams. Yet she treats him as bad as dear old grandpa Williams was treated by the Alliance. Worse, if you consider that she claims to have loved him before she knifes him in the back. Shepard becomes a floating corpsecicle and returns two years later from the dead and she has absolutely no use for him. In fact, it takes less than three and one half minutes to decide that she no longer wants to have anything to do with him and avoids him like the plague with the exception of the aforementioned tepid email apology. In light of her hoisting her backside up on her shoulders in ME3, one wonders why she even bothered to send it in the first place.
 
Make no mistake, Ashley is toxic and she needs to go in the worst possible way before she begins cooking rabbits in the galley. But if you absolutely must have her, just continue to lick her backside like a little lamb and she will eventually drink enough booze to be able to take you back. My advice? Put boot to hind end and toss her sorry self off of your ship and be happy that you did so because that is all the payback that BioWare will let you get for her insane behavior.

[obZen DF]

robertthebard wrote...

obZen DF wrote...

I do agree that Ashley has less 'in-character' and 'content' than Kaiden in ME3. I have 2 important Sheps. 1 Ashley and 1 Kaiden. And the Shep with Kaiden showed that he's got alot more convo's and trust in Shepard. He even acknowledges that he's gay.

But, I still love Ashley. She may be in fact one of the more Human humans in the game. She acts like a real human would act. Not like Jack in ME2. "Oh you work with Cerberus? They only destroyed my entire life, but ok, I'll join you"
Now tell me, if you were in Ashleys situation, would you trust Shepard so easily after he's being dead for 2 years? And suddenly works with Cerberus? Without contacting you?
I would not.
I would question the hell out of Shepard. And I need to build up trust again. Maybe it's not even the real Shepard. Questions, questions.

Shepard, in answer to Jack's "Do you think I'm stupid?":  This station is going down in flames, I have the only way out, I'm offering to take you with me, and you're argueing.

Then, if you're not playing a Cerberus lap dog, she can tell.  If you give her unrestricted access, which means you give her access to the files, as there's no "limit" to what she can see other than what's available on the Normandy, she can grow to trust Shepard, not Cerberus.  Isn't it funny that, starting from the position you listed, she can grow to trust Shepard, but Ashley, who was with you from the start, can't?  The things you did in ME 1 and before can become known to Jack, but she wasn't there when it happened, so it's all second hand.  If you have Jack in the squad when you meet Ash she can tell her that there are other threats in the galaxy.  Of course, Jack's ME 3 initial greeting is a hell of lot funnier than Ashley's, since Jack punches you in the face.  Too bad if you have Garrus in the squad he doesn't just shoot Ashley in Horizon, and save a bullet in three.

Actions speak louder than words.  The only reason Ashley is standing there to spit in your face over Cerberus is because you saved her ass, for the second time.  Everything that you have been through together prior to that moment, including saving her life again, is erased by working for/with Cerberus, which ever way you choose to play it.  Of course, this adds to the "being a tool" when she says, as she walks off "I'll file my report and see what the Alliance decides to believe".  Well gee, I'd think they'd believe Shepard saved the colony, or most of it.  A fact that Ashley seems intent to ignore.

Yes, but Jack didn't know Shepard before he was dead. So, Jack starts building trust when Shepard's already working with Cerberus. For Ashley it's the opposite. She builds trust in ME1, for some even a romance, and then you die. 2 years later you're back. Working with a terrorist organization and blabla you know the rest. Isn't it normal for someone to lose his/her trust in that person? The need to build up trust again? I certainly want my trust back before I join that person. So, in my personal view, Ashley has all the rights to cut me off and be angry about it. Even if I did save her life again that day. You following me?
I do wish that the convo on Horizon was fairly longer. I never got to say that I'm sorry and that I wish things were different. No, the dialogue wheel won't give me that. <_<

[DirtySHISN0]

obZen DF wrote...
Yes, but Jack didn't know Shepard before he was dead. So, Jack starts building trust when Shepard's already working with Cerberus. For Ashley it's the opposite. She builds trust in ME1, for some even a romance, and then you die. 2 years later you're back. Working with a terrorist organization and blabla you know the rest. Isn't it normal for someone to lose his/her trust in that person? The need to build up trust again? I certainly want my trust back before I join that person. So, in my personal view, Ashley has all the rights to cut me off and be angry about it. Even if I did save her life again that day. You following me?
I do wish that the convo on Horizon was fairly longer. I never got to say that I'm sorry and that I wish things were different. No, the dialogue wheel won't give me that. <_<

Honestly it annoyed me more that the dialogue made me auto like her all the time.
If it were like ME1 people would have less trouble with characters they disliked.

We've been through alot together, trust me.      You know me Ash
                                                                        \\       /
                                                                           O  -  Take a moment to think about this
                                                                        /       \\
                                        I've killed for less.           Say hello to Kaidan for me. [shoot her]


Instead we got:

                                                         trust me.        Why you no trust me?
                                                                         \\      /
                                                                            O  -  You should consider trusting me.
                                                                         /      \\      
                                              Trust me, b*tch.        [Agressive plea for trust and affection]  


Being allowed to dislike her would have been nice.                                               

Modifié par DirtySHISN0, 25 juillet 2012 - 05:18 .

[masster blaster]

legion999 wrote...

She's not. ****ing. Racist.

But yeah, her Cerberus hatred went way too far. If you shoot her on the coup mission she'll sometimes even say she hopes the Reapers will send you to hell.

You know she got her wish at the end of ME3 right. JK I like Ash and i understand why she hates Cerburs/does not trust you because she wants to be angry at you but can't because she loves Shepard to much. Unless you kill her then that changes.

[Ryzaki]

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

obZen DF wrote...
Yes, but Jack didn't know Shepard before he was dead. So, Jack starts building trust when Shepard's already working with Cerberus. For Ashley it's the opposite. She builds trust in ME1, for some even a romance, and then you die. 2 years later you're back. Working with a terrorist organization and blabla you know the rest. Isn't it normal for someone to lose his/her trust in that person? The need to build up trust again? I certainly want my trust back before I join that person. So, in my personal view, Ashley has all the rights to cut me off and be angry about it. Even if I did save her life again that day. You following me?
I do wish that the convo on Horizon was fairly longer. I never got to say that I'm sorry and that I wish things were different. No, the dialogue wheel won't give me that. <_<

Honestly it annoyed me more that the dialogue made me auto like her all the time.
If it were like ME1 people would have less trouble with characters they disliked.

We've been through alot together, trust me.      You know me Ash
                                                                              /
                                                                           O  -  Take a moment to think about this
                                                                        /      
                                        I've killed for less.           Say hello to Kaidan for me. [shoot her]


Instead we got:

                                                         trust me.        Why you no trust me?
                                                                               /
                                                                            O  -  You should consider trusting me.
                                                                         /            
                                              Trust me, b*tch.        [Agressive plea for trust and affection]  


Being allowed to dislike her would have been nice.                                               

Agreed. Same with Kaidan.

The forced friendship with the VS made me gag. Especially since he's all  when she's telling him to go to hell. Where's the renegade troll there? 

[Ageless Face]

^ Please. Tell me one squadmate/former squadmate in ME3 that you aren't forced to be his/her best friend. It's not just with Kaidan and Ashley.

[DirtySHISN0]

Ryzaki wrote...

Agreed. Same with Kaidan.

The forced friendship with the VS made me gag. Especially since he's all  when she's telling him to go to hell. Where's the renegade troll there? 

l̶e̶g̶i̶o̶n̶  Ashley, your just a machine. The answer is no, you don't have a soul.
or
Shooting her mid sentence

^ that would ****** her off the most.

Still, i try not to kill her. Especially seeing as i can leave her to rot in samaras room.

[Iakus]

Krakefer.ch wrote...

Tell me how she's not racist.

She did say during ME1 something like "hard to tell difference between aliens and animals"

::headdesk::

She.  Was.  Talking.  About.  The.  Keepers. 

WHom nobody knows if they're sentient or not.

[DirtySHISN0]

HagarIshay wrote...

^ Please. Tell me one squadmate/former squadmate in ME3 that you aren't forced to be his/her best friend. It's not just with Kaidan and Ashley.

You can choose to let anyone die except liara.

1 VS must survive, there is no save both/kill both option. This is unfortunate.

Also its more a comment about the coincidence of auto dialogue in ME3 and character interaction in general.

[Ryzaki]

HagarIshay wrote...

^ Please. Tell me one squadmate/former squadmate in ME3 that you aren't forced to be his/her best friend. It's not just with Kaidan and Ashley.

It's not. But I can kill everyone else save Liara (and both EDI and James can be completely ignored after their intros though the Cerberus base made me roll my eyes with the "ooh EDI you're so great."). (And I've complained about Liara to high heaven.) I can't kill both Ashley and Kaidan before ME3 starts therefore I'm forced to play the buddy act with one of them. Even when killing them.

Not to mention the rest of the squadmates don't give Shep a real solid reason to tell them to STFU and GTFO like the VS does.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 25 juillet 2012 - 05:47 .

[Ryzaki]

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Agreed. Same with Kaidan.

The forced friendship with the VS made me gag. Especially since he's all  when she's telling him to go to hell. Where's the renegade troll there? 

l̶e̶g̶i̶o̶n̶  Ashley, your just a machine. The answer is no, you don't have a soul.
or
Shooting her mid sentence

^ that would ****** her off the most.

Still, i try not to kill her. Especially seeing as i can leave her to rot in samaras room.

Oh that Legion scene. I had to watch that **** on youtube. I bawled. Never happening in my games. NEVER. I'd gladly watch the Quarians kill themselves first.

Though honestly a renegade final shot when she's doing her "I hope the Reapers send you to hell..." would've been enough. That and less trying to kiss her ass on Mars. At least Shep can put an end to that even if it was slower than I'd like though.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 25 juillet 2012 - 05:49 .

[Ageless Face]

DirtySHISN0 wrote...
You can choose to let anyone die except liara.

1 VS must survive, there is no save both/kill both option. This is unfortunate.

Also its more a comment about the coincidence of auto dialogue in ME3 and character interaction in general.

First of all, you can kill the VS in ME3 so you don't have them for 3/4 of the game. And EDI, Vega and Javik are also unkillable.

Second of all, I meant the comment about being forced to be friend with Kaidan and Ashley. Not related to the fact you can kill the characters. You are forced to be a friend of everyone who weren't killed. And that sucks. I don't like some of the characters and I don't want my Shepard to act as if she does, but I don't want to kill them.

Modifié par HagarIshay, 25 juillet 2012 - 05:58 .

[Ryzaki]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Oh that Legion scene. I had to watch that **** on youtube. I bawled. Never happening in my games. NEVER. I'd gladly watch the Quarians kill themselves first.

I personally thought it was a better way for the geth to go out than "offscreen to red space magic lol" (and no, I refuse to not pick Destroy). Also, that scene has some very impressive voice acting; the "Legion you have a soul" moment comes across far more emotional than the other version, IMO.

Actually I found it worse. YMMV and all that.

As for the voice acting. I found all of Rannoch had pretty great voice acting. Though I'm not overly fond of Tali (nore the scenes with her and Shep on rannoch) so I simply let her get killed off in ME2 to avoid it. Thus it's either Quarians or Geth for me. And well. Found the Geth victory more touching. Especially with Joker afterwards.

[spirosz]

Here we go again.

[DirtySHISN0]

HagarIshay wrote...

First of all, you can kill the VS in ME3 so you don't have them for 3/4 of the game. And EDI, Vega and Javik are also not unkillable.

Second of all, I meant the comment about being forced to be friend with Kaidan and Ashley. Not related to the fact you can kill the characters. You are forced to be a friend of everyone who weren't killed. And that sucks. I don't like some of the characters and I don't want my Shepard to act as if she does, but I don't want to kill them.

You dont have to talk to EDI until the TIM base mission
You don't have to talk to vega at all after palaven, plus you can punch him.
You don't have to recruit Javik at all.
You have to recruit both **** and Kaidan.
You have to put up with that survivor until game 3.

You have to put up with liara.

I miss ME1 renegade. Instead of this diet renegade that they have filled with cheese in ME3