539 réponses à ce sujet

[robertthebard]

Fawx9 wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...

F4H bandicoot wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...

F4H bandicoot wrote...

It's no longer an Alliance ship.
Sheps a spectre, he does what the **** he wants.

Paragon Shepard explicitly states that it's still an Alliance vessel when interviewed by miss al-Jilani. He still identifies himself by his rank within the Alliance military and all of the crew assigned to his vessel are still on the Alliance payroll.

Normandy is still an Alliance vessel, and Shepard still accepts the authority of higher ranking members of the Alliance.

He's still a spectre and therefore the ship is technically not Alliance. He can say it is all he likes, technically the ship is his.

Oh so that's why Udina can lock out the systems. And why taking it back is considered to be treason against the Alliance.

While I don't disagree that the SR1 is an Alliance Vessel, Udina can lock any ship he chooses, with Council approval.  He may be a (edited for television), but he's an Ambassador, and has that authority.  He could lock any Council race ship at the time, with something to go on other than "I want to", which he had for locking the Normandy.  They didn't want Shepard going to Ilos.

LOL Udina can't touch anything that's not Alliance. You think he has enough clout to lock out a Turian Ship as an ambassador?

Sure:  We suspect they are smuggling slaves.  The Council, since this isn't Ilium, will want to investigate.  They may require a look at the evidence, ala Saren's fiasco, but yes, they'd give him authorization to lock it if it was supported.  It's not jurisdiction of the ship that's in question, but the port, and since the port is in his jurisdiction, surely so.

[Fawx9]

F4H bandicoot wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...

F4H bandicoot wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...

F4H bandicoot wrote...

It's no longer an Alliance ship.
Sheps a spectre, he does what the **** he wants.

Paragon Shepard explicitly states that it's still an Alliance vessel when interviewed by miss al-Jilani. He still identifies himself by his rank within the Alliance military and all of the crew assigned to his vessel are still on the Alliance payroll.

Normandy is still an Alliance vessel, and Shepard still accepts the authority of higher ranking members of the Alliance.

He's still a spectre and therefore the ship is technically not Alliance. He can say it is all he likes, technically the ship is his.

Oh so that's why Udina can lock out the systems. And why taking it back is considered to be treason against the Alliance.

The Alliance still consider it under their jurisdiction apparently, (Apologies)
However, as a spectre, Shep can do what the hell he wants with the crew and the ship, as no one is going to question him.

Sure he can do anything he wants, he still needs to explain his actions if they aren't making sense to the crew.

They're mostly Alliance, and you can see from Ashely and Pressly that parts of the crew are wondering(they aren't going to have you talk to everyone) that initially there is some worry behind having them on board.

Of course you also latter learn from engineering that its actually benefical but theres no way anyone knows that at the start of the voyage.

[ZLurps]

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

Hey, Mexicans will always leave you in a pinch when the going gets tough. They'll throw you under the bus to save their own skin. It's not their fault. Not really. It's just they way they are.

So that's not racist? Because that's pretty much what ash says.

When things get tough economically I tend buy domestic goods because Euro in my country is better than 50 cents in other country. Say *insert nationality* can starve to death for all I care if it's about us or them.

I guess that makes me a racist. Funny I don't feel bad about it at all.

[andy6915]

Seifer006 wrote...
I'm no fan of American Cheese. I'm no fan of Footabll. I'm no fan of COD. I'm no fan of President _____ "insert name here*

it's not racism since Ash showed appreciation towards other races ie Garrus and Wrex.

So it's not racist to say "I'm no fan of aliens"? Okay, just to confirm that you don't have an asinine double standard, let me change one single word in that statement, and see if it's stil not racist.

"I'm no fan of black people"

Still not racist? You're in an interesting position now. If you say yes it is racist, you're a hypocrite, and if you say no it isn't, you're clearly racist yourself. What's your answer?

Modifié par andy69156915, 26 juillet 2012 - 05:56 .

[Goneaviking]

andy69156915 wrote...

Seifer006 wrote...
I'm no fan of American Cheese. I'm no fan of Footabll. I'm no fan of COD. I'm no fan of President _____ "insert name here*

it's not racism since Ash showed appreciation towards other races ie Garrus and Wrex.

So it's not racist to say "I'm no fan of aliens"? Okay, just to confirm that you don't have an asinine double standard, let me change one single word in that statement, and see if it's stil not racist.

"I'm no fan of black people"

Still not racist? You're in an interesting position now. If you say yes it is racist, you're a hypocrite, and if you say no it isn't, you're clearly racist yourself. What's your answer?

I'm no fan of America.

Doesn't mean I hate Americans.

[andy6915]

Goneaviking wrote...
I'm no fan of America.

Doesn't mean I hate Americans.

Avoiding the question with a non-sequitur is not answering it. Is that statement about black people racist or not? Don't give a non-answer because you know your logic just put you in a hole you can't dig out of. Have the guts to admit it.

Is. It. Racist. Yes. Or. No?

^
That is what I want. Yes/no?

Modifié par andy69156915, 26 juillet 2012 - 06:02 .

[Seifer006]

andy69156915 wrote...

Seifer006 wrote...
I'm no fan of American Cheese. I'm no fan of Footabll. I'm no fan of COD. I'm no fan of President _____ "insert name here*

it's not racism since Ash showed appreciation towards other races ie Garrus and Wrex.

So it's not racist to say "I'm no fan of aliens"? Okay, just to confirm that you don't have an asinine double standard, let me change one single word in that statement, and see if it's stil not racist.

"I'm no fan of black people"

Still not racist? You're in an interesting position now. If you say yes it is racist, you're a hypocrite, and if you say no it isn't, you're clearly racist yourself. What's your answer?

LMAO!!!!!!! your comment. what a joke

did Ash have the intention of being a racist when she said that? if so, then why she showed appreciation towards other races like Garrus and Wrex.

your comment is a joke. I'm not going to even bother responding to such a dumb question. Because you're asking for a flamming debate.........which I won't give you the appeciation of.

also - look at the past comments from others. They've already given substantial reasonable answers of Ash not being a racist. And if she is: so what? is there a reason she's racist? If sol, why? And if that's answered, then maybe it's Justified?

do your homework man

Modifié par Seifer006, 26 juillet 2012 - 06:08 .

[ZLurps]

andy69156915 wrote...

Seifer006 wrote...
I'm no fan of American Cheese. I'm no fan of Footabll. I'm no fan of COD. I'm no fan of President _____ "insert name here*

it's not racism since Ash showed appreciation towards other races ie Garrus and Wrex.

So it's not racist to say "I'm no fan of aliens"? Okay, just to confirm that you don't have an asinine double standard, let me change one single word in that statement, and see if it's stil not racist.

"I'm no fan of black people"

Still not racist? You're in an interesting position now. If you say yes it is racist, you're a hypocrite, and if you say no it isn't, you're clearly racist yourself. What's your answer?

Okay, I play.

I'm not fan of Americans. I have nothing against Americans per se, but if Americans feel like that the whole world need to be their fan, I think they need reality check.

Now call me a racist or FO American.

[andy6915]

Seifer006 wrote...
LMAO!!!!!!! your comment. what a joke

Making light of your awful logic doesn't make it go away.

Seifer006 wrote...
did Ash have the intention of being a racist when she said that? if so, then why she showed appreciation towards other races like Garrus and Wrex.

Do KKK members intend to be racist with their actions? No. Bigots never intentionally act like bigots, they just are, and they never think of themselves as bigots.

Seifer006 wrote...
your comment is a joke. I'm not going to even bother responding to such a dumb question. Because you're asking for a flamming debate.........which I won't give you the appeciation of.

So "shut down to further discussion and hope he goes away so people don't realize how stupid I'm being"? Right, great tactic. Burry your head and the sand and pretend I'm not there making you look bad by showing your horrible double standard, I'm sure that will work.

Seifer006 wrote...
also - look at the past comments from others. They've already given substantial reasonable answers of Ash not being a racist. And if she is: so what? is there a reason she's racist? If sol, why? And if that's answered, then maybe it's Justified?

I honestly don't care if she's racist or not, I do care that people are being in denial about it because they don't want to admit a character flaw of a character they like that is unpleasant to them.

ZLurps wrote...
Okay, I play.

I'm not fan of Americans.
I have nothing against Americans per se, but if Americans feel like
that the whole world need to be their fan, I think they need reality
check.

Now call me a racist or FO American.

Ah, another non-answer where the person dances around the question because they know they've been cornered. Are people so spineless around here?

Modifié par andy69156915, 26 juillet 2012 - 06:28 .

[DevilBeast]

Goneaviking wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

Seifer006 wrote...
I'm no fan of American Cheese. I'm no fan of Footabll. I'm no fan of COD. I'm no fan of President _____ "insert name here*

it's not racism since Ash showed appreciation towards other races ie Garrus and Wrex.

So it's not racist to say "I'm no fan of aliens"? Okay, just to confirm that you don't have an asinine double standard, let me change one single word in that statement, and see if it's stil not racist.

"I'm no fan of black people"

Still not racist? You're in an interesting position now. If you say yes it is racist, you're a hypocrite, and if you say no it isn't, you're clearly racist yourself. What's your answer?

I'm no fan of America.

Doesn't mean I hate Americans.

Well, if she said; I´m no fan of The Asari Republics, The Turian Hierarchy etc. then it would probably resemble the "I´m no fan of America" a bit more than I´m no fan of aliens.

[BadExamp1e]

LOL @ this thread. I've taught myself to laugh at the people who still call her a racist.

[ZLurps]

andy69156915 wrote...

ZLurps wrote...
Okay, I play.

I'm not fan of Americans.
I have nothing against Americans per se, but if Americans feel like
that the whole world need to be their fan, I think they need reality
check.

Now call me a racist or FO American.

Ah, another non-answer where the person dances around the question because they know they've been cornered. Are people so spineless around here?

I'm spineless, haha.

Funny for me it looks like it's you trying to avoid playing with your own rules.

Again, I'm not a fan of your culture. I'm not a fan of black people, Germans, French, etc. and I don't see any reason why I should.

Now again, call me a racist, or really, FO.

Modifié par ZLurps, 26 juillet 2012 - 06:37 .

[Iakus]

Barquiel wrote...

indeed, it depends on the context

"I am no fan of Israel because..." ok
"I am no fan of jewish people" is problematic, IMO

Given she typically refers to aliens more in a nationalistic sense than racial or cultural?  Then yes, the "I am no fan of Israel" analogy fits better.  She distrusts aliens because they are beholden to outside groups rather than Earth's well-being.

In addition, people keep forgetting the other half of her statement

"but Cerberus has a history of being extremist"

That, plus her comments at the Terra Firma rally, definitely show her attitude has been blown way out of proportion.

[Seifer006]

andy69156915 wrote...

Seifer006 wrote...
LMAO!!!!!!! your comment. what a joke

Making light of your awful logic doesn't make it go away.

Seifer006 wrote...
did Ash have the intention of being a racist when she said that? if so, then why she showed appreciation towards other races like Garrus and Wrex.

Do KKK members intend to be racist with their actions? No. Bigots never intentionally act like bigots, they just are, and they never think of themselves as bigots.

Seifer006 wrote...
your comment is a joke. I'm not going to even bother responding to such a dumb question. Because you're asking for a flamming debate.........which I won't give you the appeciation of.

So "shut down to further discussion and hope he goes away so people don't realize how stupid I'm being"? Right, great tactic. Burry your head and the sand and pretend I'm not there making you look bad by showing your horrible double standard, I'm sure that will work.

Seifer006 wrote...
also - look at the past comments from others. They've already given substantial reasonable answers of Ash not being a racist. And if she is: so what? is there a reason she's racist? If sol, why? And if that's answered, then maybe it's Justified?

I honestly don't care if she's racist or not, I do care that people are being in denial about it because they don't want to admit a character flaw of a character they like that is unpleasant to them.

ZLurps wrote...
Okay, I play.

I'm not fan of Americans.
I have nothing against Americans per se, but if Americans feel like
that the whole world need to be their fan, I think they need reality
check.

Now call me a racist or FO American.

Ah, another non-answer where the person dances around the question because they know they've been cornered. Are people so spineless around here?

LOL!!!! good one andy69156915

you just made me laugh. not even going to bother at your responses.
may I ask how old are you?
12......13? am I close?

[Seifer006]

ZLurps wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

ZLurps wrote...
Okay, I play.

I'm not fan of Americans.
I have nothing against Americans per se, but if Americans feel like
that the whole world need to be their fan, I think they need reality
check.

Now call me a racist or FO American.

Ah, another non-answer where the person dances around the question because they know they've been cornered. Are people so spineless around here?

I'm spineless, haha.

Funny for me it looks like it's you trying to avoid playing with your own rules.

Again, I'm not a fan of your culture. I'm not a fan of black people, Germans, French, etc. and I don't see any reason why I should.

Now again, call me a racist, or really, FO.

@ ZLurps - social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/13302149/16#13348401

[DevilBeast]

Seifer006 wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

Seifer006 wrote...
LMAO!!!!!!! your comment. what a joke

Making light of your awful logic doesn't make it go away.

Seifer006 wrote...
did Ash have the intention of being a racist when she said that? if so, then why she showed appreciation towards other races like Garrus and Wrex.

Do KKK members intend to be racist with their actions? No. Bigots never intentionally act like bigots, they just are, and they never think of themselves as bigots.

Seifer006 wrote...
your comment is a joke. I'm not going to even bother responding to such a dumb question. Because you're asking for a flamming debate.........which I won't give you the appeciation of.

So "shut down to further discussion and hope he goes away so people don't realize how stupid I'm being"? Right, great tactic. Burry your head and the sand and pretend I'm not there making you look bad by showing your horrible double standard, I'm sure that will work.

Seifer006 wrote...
also - look at the past comments from others. They've already given substantial reasonable answers of Ash not being a racist. And if she is: so what? is there a reason she's racist? If sol, why? And if that's answered, then maybe it's Justified?

I honestly don't care if she's racist or not, I do care that people are being in denial about it because they don't want to admit a character flaw of a character they like that is unpleasant to them.

ZLurps wrote...
Okay, I play.

I'm not fan of Americans.
I have nothing against Americans per se, but if Americans feel like
that the whole world need to be their fan, I think they need reality
check.

Now call me a racist or FO American.

Ah, another non-answer where the person dances around the question because they know they've been cornered. Are people so spineless around here?

LOL!!!! good one andy69156915

you just made me laugh. not even going to bother at your responses.
may I ask how old are you?
12......13? am I close?

You have a strange way of not bothering with someone..

Modifié par DevilBeast, 26 juillet 2012 - 06:47 .

[Newnation]

I would say Javik is the galaxy's biggest tool.....but he's so awesome. He is pretty much racist, unforgiving, insensitive, and pessimistic and he really just doesn't give damn. He makes no apologies and doesn't try to hide it.

Here are my two cents on Ashley and I'm just going to reiterate that this is my opinion. Ash is a very closeminded person and does not really like aliens. Her dislike of aliens comes from what her grandfather went through in the FC war and what the military has done to her family because of it. Sure, she warms up to Garrus and Tali (not sure about Thane and Wrex considering we never saw screen time with them in 3) but Ash does seem pretty racist to Liara and the asari in general.

So...do I think she's racist....yeah, kind of. She strikes me as the kind of person that does the right thing even if that involves having to work for or save the people she doesn't really care for. As far as I can tell she pretty much still has the same views of aliens she had in the first game with the exception being she now realizes that she has to work with them instead of humanity having to do everything on their own. The only people that have actually changed their views are Pressley who was also pretty racist and Tali who was prejudiced against the geth.

Before anyone gets on the "You're a Ash hater" wagon with me, she's not my favorite character but I don't hate her either. That is just how I see her.

[andy6915]

Seifer006 wrote...
LOL!!!! good one andy69156915

you just made me laugh. not even going to bother at your responses.
may I ask how old are you?
12......13? am I close?

Trying to subtly insult someone instead of dealing with their actual point is so mature. If anyone is acting like a kid around here, it's you. You're acting like a child, while I'm making calm and concise points. You would rather try to mock me and diminish me rather then actually try to win the argument. That is quite... Telling.

[Seifer006]

andy69156915 wrote...

Seifer006 wrote...
LOL!!!! good one andy69156915

you just made me laugh. not even going to bother at your responses.
may I ask how old are you?
12......13? am I close?

Trying to subtly insult someone instead of dealing with their actual point is so mature. If anyone is acting like a kid around here, it's you. You're acting like a child, while I'm making calm and concise points. You would rather try to mock me and diminish me rather then actually try to win the argument. That is quite... Telling.

right. anyway, it' s probably best to leave on this note.

[DevilBeast]

Newnation wrote...

I would say Javik is the galaxy's biggest tool.....but he's so awesome. He is pretty much racist, unforgiving, insensitive, and pessimistic and he really just doesn't give damn. He makes no apologies and doesn't try to hide it.

Here are my two cents on Ashley and I'm just going to reiterate that this is my opinion. Ash is a very closeminded person and does not really like aliens. Her dislike of aliens comes from what her grandfather went through in the FC war and what the military has done to her family because of it. Sure, she warms up to Garrus and Tali (not sure about Thane and Wrex considering we never saw screen time with them in 3) but Ash does seem pretty racist to Liara and the asari in general.

So...do I think she's racist....yeah, kind of. She strikes me as the kind of person that does the right thing even if that involves having to work for or save the people she doesn't really care for. As far as I can tell she pretty much still has the same views of aliens she had in the first game with the exception being she now realizes that she has to work with them instead of humanity having to do everything on their own. The only people that have actually changed their views are Pressley who was also pretty racist and Tali who was prejudiced against the geth.

Before anyone gets on the "You're a Ash hater" wagon with me, she's not my favorite character but I don't hate her either. That is just how I see her.

It´s interesting that you say Ash seems racist towards Liara because in ME3 I found her to be acting quite friendly towards Liara, even offering Shepard to go and console her after the mission on Thessia...

[Clayless]

My favourite bit is when she says she hopes the Reapers sends Shepard to hell, after one of your teammates shoot her.

[xac21]

Goneaviking wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

Seifer006 wrote...
I'm no fan of American Cheese. I'm no fan of Footabll. I'm no fan of COD. I'm no fan of President _____ "insert name here*

it's not racism since Ash showed appreciation towards other races ie Garrus and Wrex.

So it's not racist to say "I'm no fan of aliens"? Okay, just to confirm that you don't have an asinine double standard, let me change one single word in that statement, and see if it's stil not racist.

"I'm no fan of black people"

Still not racist? You're in an interesting position now. If you say yes it is racist, you're a hypocrite, and if you say no it isn't, you're clearly racist yourself. What's your answer?

I'm no fan of America.

Doesn't mean I hate Americans.

America is not a fan of you! But American doesn’t
hate you. :-P 



just kidding 



But really ... Ashley is a racist because she
doesn't immediately feel comfortable with aliens on a Human "Secret"
vessel??? Not really fair, especially considering that she learns to be more
comfortable and then favorable towards aliens. 

[xac21]

BadExamp1e wrote...

LOL @ this thread. I've taught myself to laugh at the people who still call her a racist.

LIKE!!!

[General User]

iakus wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

indeed, it depends on the context

"I am no fan of Israel because..." ok
"I am no fan of jewish people" is problematic, IMO

Given she typically refers to aliens more in a nationalistic sense than racial or cultural?  Then yes, the "I am no fan of Israel" analogy fits better.  She distrusts aliens because they are beholden to outside groups rather than Earth's well-being.

Aye.  In Mass Effect, race and nationality are almost entirely synonymous.

[BadExamp1e]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

My favourite bit is when she says she hopes the Reapers sends Shepard to hell, after one of your teammates shoot her.

Yeah, yeah. I like that bit too. Ash always did fight with more fire than most. Think it's funny that a Shepard who storms in agressively intent on doing harm (whom was ignorant and hostile towards her the whole game), gets hurled some verbal abuse in the end. But of course, most players like to point that out and hold it against her like it's a flaw.

"You can't say that to my Shepard! Wah, wah."