539 réponses à ce sujet

[robertthebard]

xac21 wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

Seifer006 wrote...
I'm no fan of American Cheese. I'm no fan of Footabll. I'm no fan of COD. I'm no fan of President _____ "insert name here*

it's not racism since Ash showed appreciation towards other races ie Garrus and Wrex.

So it's not racist to say "I'm no fan of aliens"? Okay, just to confirm that you don't have an asinine double standard, let me change one single word in that statement, and see if it's stil not racist.

"I'm no fan of black people"

Still not racist? You're in an interesting position now. If you say yes it is racist, you're a hypocrite, and if you say no it isn't, you're clearly racist yourself. What's your answer?

I'm no fan of America.

Doesn't mean I hate Americans.

America is not a fan of you! But American doesn’t
hate you. :-P 



just kidding 



But really ... Ashley is a racist because she
doesn't immediately feel comfortable with aliens on a Human "Secret"
vessel??? Not really fair, especially considering that she learns to be more
comfortable and then favorable towards aliens. 

Just the facts sir:  The Normandy was a joint project with the Alliance and Turians.  Again, play the first 5 minutes or so of ME 1.  Now, since she's not an "original" member of the crew, but a stray picked up on Eden Prime, she may not know that, but that doesn't change the fact that, from what we are presented, w/out some of these aliens she doesn't want roaming the ship, we'd not have a ship for them to roam on.

[Iakus]

robertthebard wrote...

Just the facts sir:  The Normandy was a joint project with the Alliance and Turians.  Again, play the first 5 minutes or so of ME 1.  Now, since she's not an "original" member of the crew, but a stray picked up on Eden Prime, she may not know that, but that doesn't change the fact that, from what we are presented, w/out some of these aliens she doesn't want roaming the ship, we'd not have a ship for them to roam on.

Reasonably certain that if two nations have a joint project to build a cutting edge stealth warship, they're not going to let civilians of either nation, let alone those of third party nations, roam around freely 

[Newnation]

DevilBeast wrote...

Newnation wrote...

I would say Javik is the galaxy's biggest tool.....but he's so awesome. He is pretty much racist, unforgiving, insensitive, and pessimistic and he really just doesn't give damn. He makes no apologies and doesn't try to hide it.

Here are my two cents on Ashley and I'm just going to reiterate that this is my opinion. Ash is a very closeminded person and does not really like aliens. Her dislike of aliens comes from what her grandfather went through in the FC war and what the military has done to her family because of it. Sure, she warms up to Garrus and Tali (not sure about Thane and Wrex considering we never saw screen time with them in 3) but Ash does seem pretty racist to Liara and the asari in general.

So...do I think she's racist....yeah, kind of. She strikes me as the kind of person that does the right thing even if that involves having to work for or save the people she doesn't really care for. As far as I can tell she pretty much still has the same views of aliens she had in the first game with the exception being she now realizes that she has to work with them instead of humanity having to do everything on their own. The only people that have actually changed their views are Pressley who was also pretty racist and Tali who was prejudiced against the geth.

Before anyone gets on the "You're a Ash hater" wagon with me, she's not my favorite character but I don't hate her either. That is just how I see her.

It´s interesting that you say Ash seems racist towards Liara because in ME3 I found her to be acting quite friendly towards Liara, even offering Shepard to go and console her after the mission on Thessia...

I'm basing that off of how she acted toward her in ME 1 and the monestary mission in ME 3.

[DevilBeast]

Newnation wrote...

DevilBeast wrote...

Newnation wrote...

I would say Javik is the galaxy's biggest tool.....but he's so awesome. He is pretty much racist, unforgiving, insensitive, and pessimistic and he really just doesn't give damn. He makes no apologies and doesn't try to hide it.

Here are my two cents on Ashley and I'm just going to reiterate that this is my opinion. Ash is a very closeminded person and does not really like aliens. Her dislike of aliens comes from what her grandfather went through in the FC war and what the military has done to her family because of it. Sure, she warms up to Garrus and Tali (not sure about Thane and Wrex considering we never saw screen time with them in 3) but Ash does seem pretty racist to Liara and the asari in general.

So...do I think she's racist....yeah, kind of. She strikes me as the kind of person that does the right thing even if that involves having to work for or save the people she doesn't really care for. As far as I can tell she pretty much still has the same views of aliens she had in the first game with the exception being she now realizes that she has to work with them instead of humanity having to do everything on their own. The only people that have actually changed their views are Pressley who was also pretty racist and Tali who was prejudiced against the geth.

Before anyone gets on the "You're a Ash hater" wagon with me, she's not my favorite character but I don't hate her either. That is just how I see her.

It´s interesting that you say Ash seems racist towards Liara because in ME3 I found her to be acting quite friendly towards Liara, even offering Shepard to go and console her after the mission on Thessia...

I'm basing that off of how she acted toward her in ME 1 and the monestary mission in ME 3.

Hmmm... I don´t think I have ever brought her on the monestary mission. Maybe I should try that out to see what you mean.

[SuperVulcan]

Bringing Ash and Liara to the N7 mission on Cyone also has some interesting dialogue.

[Iakus]

Newnation wrote...

I'm basing that off of how she acted toward her in ME 1 and the monestary mission in ME 3.

What about the monastary mission?

Edit:  If you're referring to her comment about not liking to do Thessia's dirty work for them, Liara agrees with her.

Modifié par iakus, 26 juillet 2012 - 09:19 .

[sporeian]

Nice to see the Ashley hate train is alive and well. I thought for a second that you all may have had some common sense.

[DPSSOC]

andy69156915 wrote...

Seifer006 wrote...
I'm no fan of American Cheese. I'm no fan of Footabll. I'm no fan of COD. I'm no fan of President _____ "insert name here*

it's not racism since Ash showed appreciation towards other races ie Garrus and Wrex.

So it's not racist to say "I'm no fan of aliens"? Okay, just to confirm that you don't have an asinine double standard, let me change one single word in that statement, and see if it's stil not racist.

"I'm no fan of black people"

Still not racist? You're in an interesting position now. If you say yes it is racist, you're a hypocrite, and if you say no it isn't, you're clearly racist yourself. What's your answer?

technically you change a word and add one however I'll play ball, I'm no fan of black people is not racist.  You do realize where fan comes from right?  Fanatic, as in someone who has a fanatic affection for or devotion to something.  Saying, "I'm no fan of [blank]," is simply a statement that you do not hold [blank] in particularly high regard.  It doesn't necessarily mean, though it can, that you hold a negative opinion of [blank] it's just the lack of a positive one.

robertthebard wrote...
Just the facts sir: The Normandy was a joint project with the Alliance and Turians. Again, play the first 5 minutes or so of ME 1. Now, since she's not an "original" member of the crew, but a stray picked up on Eden Prime, she may not know that, but that doesn't change the fact that, from what we are presented, w/out some of these aliens she doesn't want roaming the ship, we'd not have a ship for them to roam on.

You mean the specific aliens she doesn't want roaming around? The individuals she doesn't want roaming around? The people with absolutely no connection to the Turian military that she doesn't want roaming around? The people she, and Shepard, have known for a grand total of 30 minutes that she doesn't want roaming around? No they had absolutely nothing to do with the fact that you have a ship for them to roam on. Silly that you would even consider it really.

Seriously the only way what you're talking about could have any relevance is if she had an issue with Turian commandos or officers being stationed on board.  You know somebody representing someone who could legitimately have as much claim to the Normandy as the Alliance.  That's not the case here.

[iamweaver]

DPSSOC wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

Seifer006 wrote...
I'm no fan of American Cheese. I'm no fan of Footabll. I'm no fan of COD. I'm no fan of President _____ "insert name here*

it's not racism since Ash showed appreciation towards other races ie Garrus and Wrex.

So it's not racist to say "I'm no fan of aliens"? Okay, just to confirm that you don't have an asinine double standard, let me change one single word in that statement, and see if it's stil not racist.

"I'm no fan of black people"

Still not racist? You're in an interesting position now. If you say yes it is racist, you're a hypocrite, and if you say no it isn't, you're clearly racist yourself. What's your answer?

technically you change a word and add one however I'll play ball, I'm no fan of black people is not racist.  You do realize where fan comes from right?  Fanatic, as in someone who has a fanatic affection for or devotion to something.  Saying, "I'm no fan of [blank]," is simply a statement that you do not hold [blank] in particularly high regard.  It doesn't necessarily mean, though it can, that you hold a negative opinion of [blank] it's just the lack of a positive one.

robertthebard wrote...
Just the facts sir: The Normandy was a joint project with the Alliance and Turians. Again, play the first 5 minutes or so of ME 1. Now, since she's not an "original" member of the crew, but a stray picked up on Eden Prime, she may not know that, but that doesn't change the fact that, from what we are presented, w/out some of these aliens she doesn't want roaming the ship, we'd not have a ship for them to roam on.

You mean the specific aliens she doesn't want roaming around? The individuals she doesn't want roaming around? The people with absolutely no connection to the Turian military that she doesn't want roaming around? The people she, and Shepard, have known for a grand total of 30 minutes that she doesn't want roaming around? No they had absolutely nothing to do with the fact that you have a ship for them to roam on. Silly that you would even consider it really.

Seriously the only way what you're talking about could have any relevance is if she had an issue with Turian commandos or officers being stationed on board.  You know somebody representing someone who could legitimately have as much claim to the Normandy as the Alliance.  That's not the case here.

Nonsense.  We used to let anyone who so desired, come onboard the nuclear submarine on which I was stationed.  After all, they are all humans - and humans built the sub.  So that was OK, right?

And on another note - inaccurate as it might be, the humans were basically represented as one political unit, as were the salarians, turians, etc. So saying "I'm no fan of <race X>" doesn't have the same damning connotations that saying "I'm no fan of <artifical human race construct X>" does on 21st Century Earth.  It would be more like saying "I'm no fan of any foreign government", given the way that Ashley generally treats the nonhumans we meet in ME (noted exception - any female alien that's in contention as LI).

Modifié par iamweaver, 27 juillet 2012 - 02:02 .

[robertthebard]

iamweaver wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

Seifer006 wrote...
I'm no fan of American Cheese. I'm no fan of Footabll. I'm no fan of COD. I'm no fan of President _____ "insert name here*

it's not racism since Ash showed appreciation towards other races ie Garrus and Wrex.

So it's not racist to say "I'm no fan of aliens"? Okay, just to confirm that you don't have an asinine double standard, let me change one single word in that statement, and see if it's stil not racist.

"I'm no fan of black people"

Still not racist? You're in an interesting position now. If you say yes it is racist, you're a hypocrite, and if you say no it isn't, you're clearly racist yourself. What's your answer?

technically you change a word and add one however I'll play ball, I'm no fan of black people is not racist.  You do realize where fan comes from right?  Fanatic, as in someone who has a fanatic affection for or devotion to something.  Saying, "I'm no fan of [blank]," is simply a statement that you do not hold [blank] in particularly high regard.  It doesn't necessarily mean, though it can, that you hold a negative opinion of [blank] it's just the lack of a positive one.

robertthebard wrote...
Just the facts sir: The Normandy was a joint project with the Alliance and Turians. Again, play the first 5 minutes or so of ME 1. Now, since she's not an "original" member of the crew, but a stray picked up on Eden Prime, she may not know that, but that doesn't change the fact that, from what we are presented, w/out some of these aliens she doesn't want roaming the ship, we'd not have a ship for them to roam on.

You mean the specific aliens she doesn't want roaming around? The individuals she doesn't want roaming around? The people with absolutely no connection to the Turian military that she doesn't want roaming around? The people she, and Shepard, have known for a grand total of 30 minutes that she doesn't want roaming around? No they had absolutely nothing to do with the fact that you have a ship for them to roam on. Silly that you would even consider it really.

Seriously the only way what you're talking about could have any relevance is if she had an issue with Turian commandos or officers being stationed on board.  You know somebody representing someone who could legitimately have as much claim to the Normandy as the Alliance.  That's not the case here.

Nonsense.  We used to let anyone who so desired, come onboard the nuclear submarine on which I was stationed.  After all, they are all humans - and humans built the sub.  So that was OK, right?

And on another note - inaccurate as it might be, the humans were basically represented as one political unit, as were the salarians, turians, etc. So saying "I'm no fan of <race X>" doesn't have the same damning connotations that saying "I'm no fan of <artifical human race construct X>" does on 21st Century Earth.  It would be more like saying "I'm no fan of any foreign government", given the way that Ashley generally treats the nonhumans we meet in ME (noted exception - any female alien that's in contention as LI).

I was 9 years old, or so the first time I sat in the cockpit of an A7 fighter.  That was 40 or so years ago, so I'm a bit shakey on the exact age.  But you're absolutely correct, you should confine members of your crew to their quarters, they are, after all, unworthy of trust.  Of course, I guess if you really expect them to watch your back in a fox hole, you'd probably be better off not alienating them, wouldn't you?  Regardless, since Tool is a definition that I can roll with for either VS, this does support that, doesn't it?  "I don't mind running around with them on hostile planets, fighting hostile forces, armed to the teeth, but don't let 'em out of the hangar bay".  Funny that Shepard can tell her that they are members of the crew, and should be treated as such.  Which does get you the "kiss a turian" line, eh?  If it were me, and she were a member of my crew, acting like people that are helping us accomplish our objective should be treated as less than full members of the crew, I would suggest she get a transfer off the ship.  In fact, I might actually request that she do.  Hey, maybe she can get a job guarding Udina.  Then her behavior after the coup would make more sense.

[Captain McBuck]

Eh I'm not so sure she is racist...overly blunt certainly, I think Ash pretty much outright says she thinks the council will throw humanity under the bus to save there own backside without even stopping to think about it and she was kind of right - in ME2 the council throws human colonies under the bus and even vetos the Aliance' attempts to push for an official council investigation while the collectors are grinding people into goo. and again in ME3 right at the start the council throws earth under the bus to secure there own borders - Tavos even states this explicitly.

As for the mission on Cyone before..anyone got any quotes of things she said?

The main problem I had with Ash in ME3 though was that we didn't get Ash or Kaiden we go "Virmire Survivor", Bioware basically made them one character, not two with two distinct personalites.

Modifié par Captain McBuck, 27 juillet 2012 - 02:23 .

[Ryzaki]

@robertthebard: Sadly in ME1 when my Shepard did try to tell Ashley to GTFO she only to smugly said Anderson said she could be on the ship.

...why I can't kick her off after Anderson puts Shep in charge boggles me but there you go.

[iamweaver]

robertthebard wrote...

iamweaver wrote...
<snip>

Nonsense.  We used to let anyone who so desired, come onboard the nuclear submarine on which I was stationed.  After all, they are all humans - and humans built the sub.  So that was OK, right?

And on another note - inaccurate as it might be, the humans were basically represented as one political unit, as were the salarians, turians, etc. So saying "I'm no fan of <race X>" doesn't have the same damning connotations that saying "I'm no fan of <artifical human race construct X>" does on 21st Century Earth.  It would be more like saying "I'm no fan of any foreign government", given the way that Ashley generally treats the nonhumans we meet in ME (noted exception - any female alien that's in contention as LI).

I was 9 years old, or so the first time I sat in the cockpit of an A7 fighter.  That was 40 or so years ago, so I'm a bit shakey on the exact age.  But you're absolutely correct, you should confine members of your crew to their quarters, they are, after all, unworthy of trust.  Of course, I guess if you really expect them to watch your back in a fox hole, you'd probably be better off not alienating them, wouldn't you?  Regardless, since Tool is a definition that I can roll with for either VS, this does support that, doesn't it?  "I don't mind running around with them on hostile planets, fighting hostile forces, armed to the teeth, but don't let 'em out of the hangar bay".  Funny that Shepard can tell her that they are members of the crew, and should be treated as such.  Which does get you the "kiss a turian" line, eh?  If it were me, and she were a member of my crew, acting like people that are helping us accomplish our objective should be treated as less than full members of the crew, I would suggest she get a transfer off the ship.  In fact, I might actually request that she do.  Hey, maybe she can get a job guarding Udina.  Then her behavior after the coup would make more sense.

Your squadmates aren't members of the Alliance vessel on which you are stationed.  They aren't members of your military.  What they are is some free agents that you have hired to solve a problem, and who are combat specialists - but they are not crew members.

It's not until you have been roaming the galaxy for a while that Ashley and the rest of the crew feel more comfortable with your squadmates.

Re: in the cockpit:  The military often provides opportunities for Americans to see some of its toys.  But I can guarantee that had you attempted to walk off with a maintenance or tech manual for the plane, you would have been in trouble.  And you weren't given the opportunity to "freely roam" about the aircraft, check out its engines and  study its hydraulics, etc.  I also bet there was an airman or some such present the whole time that you were able to take that seat.

Ashley wasn't complaining about aliens being on the Normandy at all - merely that they were unsupervised.

[Indylavi]

Ashley is ok by me. Not only did she help out my Shepard but she even gave Intel to Batman in the Arkham games.

[iamweaver]

Captain McBuck wrote...
<snip>
As for the mission on Cyone before..anyone got any quotes of things she said?

<snip>

As you are moving the crates out of the way with the crane, Liara says, "Something terrible has happened here."  Ashley respondsy, "Huh, What was your first clue", to which Liara replies, "The tension in your face, LCDR".

[robertthebard]

iamweaver wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

iamweaver wrote...
<snip>

Nonsense.  We used to let anyone who so desired, come onboard the nuclear submarine on which I was stationed.  After all, they are all humans - and humans built the sub.  So that was OK, right?

And on another note - inaccurate as it might be, the humans were basically represented as one political unit, as were the salarians, turians, etc. So saying "I'm no fan of <race X>" doesn't have the same damning connotations that saying "I'm no fan of <artifical human race construct X>" does on 21st Century Earth.  It would be more like saying "I'm no fan of any foreign government", given the way that Ashley generally treats the nonhumans we meet in ME (noted exception - any female alien that's in contention as LI).

I was 9 years old, or so the first time I sat in the cockpit of an A7 fighter.  That was 40 or so years ago, so I'm a bit shakey on the exact age.  But you're absolutely correct, you should confine members of your crew to their quarters, they are, after all, unworthy of trust.  Of course, I guess if you really expect them to watch your back in a fox hole, you'd probably be better off not alienating them, wouldn't you?  Regardless, since Tool is a definition that I can roll with for either VS, this does support that, doesn't it?  "I don't mind running around with them on hostile planets, fighting hostile forces, armed to the teeth, but don't let 'em out of the hangar bay".  Funny that Shepard can tell her that they are members of the crew, and should be treated as such.  Which does get you the "kiss a turian" line, eh?  If it were me, and she were a member of my crew, acting like people that are helping us accomplish our objective should be treated as less than full members of the crew, I would suggest she get a transfer off the ship.  In fact, I might actually request that she do.  Hey, maybe she can get a job guarding Udina.  Then her behavior after the coup would make more sense.

Your squadmates aren't members of the Alliance vessel on which you are stationed.  They aren't members of your military.  What they are is some free agents that you have hired to solve a problem, and who are combat specialists - but they are not crew members.

It's not until you have been roaming the galaxy for a while that Ashley and the rest of the crew feel more comfortable with your squadmates.

Re: in the cockpit:  The military often provides opportunities for Americans to see some of its toys.  But I can guarantee that had you attempted to walk off with a maintenance or tech manual for the plane, you would have been in trouble.  And you weren't given the opportunity to "freely roam" about the aircraft, check out its engines and  study its hydraulics, etc.  I also bet there was an airman or some such present the whole time that you were able to take that seat.

Ashley wasn't complaining about aliens being on the Normandy at all - merely that they were unsupervised.

Who was supervising her when she first came on board?  She's not a member of the crew, when you get Beacon Zapped.  However, freelancer, mercenary, makes no difference, once they sign on, they are a member of your crew.  If you can select them to go on missions, they are every bit as much a member of the crew as Ashley is.  Ironically enough, they even share "quarters" on the SR 1.  I guess her clearance wasn't high enough to stay any where else.

[D24O]

Actually the Citadel is the biggest tool in the galaxy. No other construct is of that scope, Ashley pales in comparison to it.

[MegaSovereign]

D24O wrote...

Actually the Citadel is the biggest tool in the galaxy. No other construct is of that scope, Ashley pales in comparison to it.

You're insulting the Catalyst's home!!

[General User]

robertthebard wrote...

iamweaver wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

iamweaver wrote...
<snip>

Nonsense.  We used to let anyone who so desired, come onboard the nuclear submarine on which I was stationed.  After all, they are all humans - and humans built the sub.  So that was OK, right?

And on another note - inaccurate as it might be, the humans were basically represented as one political unit, as were the salarians, turians, etc. So saying "I'm no fan of <race X>" doesn't have the same damning connotations that saying "I'm no fan of <artifical human race construct X>" does on 21st Century Earth.  It would be more like saying "I'm no fan of any foreign government", given the way that Ashley generally treats the nonhumans we meet in ME (noted exception - any female alien that's in contention as LI).

I was 9 years old, or so the first time I sat in the cockpit of an A7 fighter.  That was 40 or so years ago, so I'm a bit shakey on the exact age.  But you're absolutely correct, you should confine members of your crew to their quarters, they are, after all, unworthy of trust.  Of course, I guess if you really expect them to watch your back in a fox hole, you'd probably be better off not alienating them, wouldn't you?  Regardless, since Tool is a definition that I can roll with for either VS, this does support that, doesn't it?  "I don't mind running around with them on hostile planets, fighting hostile forces, armed to the teeth, but don't let 'em out of the hangar bay".  Funny that Shepard can tell her that they are members of the crew, and should be treated as such.  Which does get you the "kiss a turian" line, eh?  If it were me, and she were a member of my crew, acting like people that are helping us accomplish our objective should be treated as less than full members of the crew, I would suggest she get a transfer off the ship.  In fact, I might actually request that she do.  Hey, maybe she can get a job guarding Udina.  Then her behavior after the coup would make more sense.

Your squadmates aren't members of the Alliance vessel on which you are stationed.  They aren't members of your military.  What they are is some free agents that you have hired to solve a problem, and who are combat specialists - but they are not crew members.

It's not until you have been roaming the galaxy for a while that Ashley and the rest of the crew feel more comfortable with your squadmates.

Re: in the cockpit:  The military often provides opportunities for Americans to see some of its toys.  But I can guarantee that had you attempted to walk off with a maintenance or tech manual for the plane, you would have been in trouble.  And you weren't given the opportunity to "freely roam" about the aircraft, check out its engines and  study its hydraulics, etc.  I also bet there was an airman or some such present the whole time that you were able to take that seat.

Ashley wasn't complaining about aliens being on the Normandy at all - merely that they were unsupervised.

Who was supervising her when she first came on board?  She's not a member of the crew, when you get Beacon Zapped. 

When you got beacon zapped, Ash was a NCO serving in Eden Prime's Alliance Garrison.  After you got beacon zapped Ash was reassigned to the Normandy at the authority of Captain Anderson.  Captain Anderson was the one "supervising" Ash when she first came on board.  And since Ash was a Alliance soldier, a handshake and a "welcome aboard Gunny" was more or less all the "supervision" she required.

However, freelancer, mercenary, makes no difference, once they sign on, they are a member of your crew.  If you can select them to go on missions, they are every bit as much a member of the crew as Ashley is.

Only if you're running a pirate ship.  The aliens on the SR-1 were not members of the crew, they were military and/or intelligence assets that (one way or another) became attached to the mission.

Modifié par General User, 27 juillet 2012 - 04:25 .

[D24O]

MegaSovereign wrote...

D24O wrote...

Actually the Citadel is the biggest tool in the galaxy. No other construct is of that scope, Ashley pales in comparison to it.

You're insulting the Catalyst's home!!

Gooby pls, it is a part of him. 

[iamweaver]

robertthebard wrote...

iamweaver wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

iamweaver wrote...
<snip>

Nonsense.  We used to let anyone who so desired, come onboard the nuclear submarine on which I was stationed.  After all, they are all humans - and humans built the sub.  So that was OK, right?

And on another note - inaccurate as it might be, the humans were basically represented as one political unit, as were the salarians, turians, etc. So saying "I'm no fan of <race X>" doesn't have the same damning connotations that saying "I'm no fan of <artifical human race construct X>" does on 21st Century Earth.  It would be more like saying "I'm no fan of any foreign government", given the way that Ashley generally treats the nonhumans we meet in ME (noted exception - any female alien that's in contention as LI).

I was 9 years old, or so the first time I sat in the cockpit of an A7 fighter.  That was 40 or so years ago, so I'm a bit shakey on the exact age.  But you're absolutely correct, you should confine members of your crew to their quarters, they are, after all, unworthy of trust.  Of course, I guess if you really expect them to watch your back in a fox hole, you'd probably be better off not alienating them, wouldn't you?  Regardless, since Tool is a definition that I can roll with for either VS, this does support that, doesn't it?  "I don't mind running around with them on hostile planets, fighting hostile forces, armed to the teeth, but don't let 'em out of the hangar bay".  Funny that Shepard can tell her that they are members of the crew, and should be treated as such.  Which does get you the "kiss a turian" line, eh?  If it were me, and she were a member of my crew, acting like people that are helping us accomplish our objective should be treated as less than full members of the crew, I would suggest she get a transfer off the ship.  In fact, I might actually request that she do.  Hey, maybe she can get a job guarding Udina.  Then her behavior after the coup would make more sense.

Your squadmates aren't members of the Alliance vessel on which you are stationed.  They aren't members of your military.  What they are is some free agents that you have hired to solve a problem, and who are combat specialists - but they are not crew members.

It's not until you have been roaming the galaxy for a while that Ashley and the rest of the crew feel more comfortable with your squadmates.

Re: in the cockpit:  The military often provides opportunities for Americans to see some of its toys.  But I can guarantee that had you attempted to walk off with a maintenance or tech manual for the plane, you would have been in trouble.  And you weren't given the opportunity to "freely roam" about the aircraft, check out its engines and  study its hydraulics, etc.  I also bet there was an airman or some such present the whole time that you were able to take that seat.

Ashley wasn't complaining about aliens being on the Normandy at all - merely that they were unsupervised.

Who was supervising her when she first came on board?  She's not a member of the crew, when you get Beacon Zapped.  However, freelancer, mercenary, makes no difference, once they sign on, they are a member of your crew.  If you can select them to go on missions, they are every bit as much a member of the crew as Ashley is.  Ironically enough, they even share "quarters" on the SR 1.  I guess her clearance wasn't high enough to stay any where else.

Well, since you weren't awake when she came on board, and the story line didn't cover it, neither you nor I know.  But she actually *is* a member of the crew - Anderson got her transferred.  That's stated.  

I'm not sure why you are so insistant about the mercs being a member of the Alliance.  They aren't.  Ashley points it out, Presley points it out, the Rear Admiral who comes on board points it out.  They aren't members of the Alliance Military.  That's simply fact.  That the game mechanics allows you to select them has no real relevence. After all, you can't select Joker, or Pressley, or Hardware-sales-guy.  

They are part of the Spectre mission, but not members of the crew.  For example, our sub took on board a SEAL team once.  But the SEAL team members weren't allowed aft of the Aux Machinery spaces, and didn't have access to Navagation or Sonar.

Yes, I know this is a video game, not the "real military".  But the character Ashley is prety clearly looking at your squad members from a traditional military viewpoint, as is Pressley or the Admiral.  That over time, she comes to understand your ignoring strict military regs as the mission takes priority does occur - but initially, her reaction shouldn't actually surprise anyone.

[DPSSOC]

robertthebard wrote...

iamweaver wrote...
Your squadmates aren't members of the Alliance vessel on which you are stationed.  They aren't members of your military.  What they are is some free agents that you have hired to solve a problem, and who are combat specialists - but they are not crew members.

It's not until you have been roaming the galaxy for a while that Ashley and the rest of the crew feel more comfortable with your squadmates.

Re: in the cockpit:  The military often provides opportunities for Americans to see some of its toys.  But I can guarantee that had you attempted to walk off with a maintenance or tech manual for the plane, you would have been in trouble.  And you weren't given the opportunity to "freely roam" about the aircraft, check out its engines and  study its hydraulics, etc.  I also bet there was an airman or some such present the whole time that you were able to take that seat.

Ashley wasn't complaining about aliens being on the Normandy at all - merely that they were unsupervised.

Who was supervising her when she first came on board?

Dr. Chakwas most likely.  It would seem sensible that Anderson would then debrief her and Alenko (probably Alenko first), and then he offered her a position on the Normandy.

robertthebard wrote...
However, freelancer, mercenary, makes no difference, once they sign on, they are a member of your crew.  If you can select them to go on missions, they are every bit as much a member of the crew as Ashley is.

Correct, however none of them, not one, is a member of the Alliance or Turian military and therefore, in Ash's thinking anyway, should not be given unrestricted access to sensitive systems like weapons, the prototype Tantalus drive core, or the IES Stealth System.

Besides it's not like she argues the point.  She brings up a concern she has, says her piece, and then accepts whatever decision you make.

[Spitfire017]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

Racist? I don't know. The worst character in the Mass Effect series? Without question.

Have you been to the Ash thread. There would be sooo many that disagree with you, since they love her character and appreciate her.

So, your statement is invalid.

[robertthebard]

DPSSOC wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

iamweaver wrote...
Your squadmates aren't members of the Alliance vessel on which you are stationed.  They aren't members of your military.  What they are is some free agents that you have hired to solve a problem, and who are combat specialists - but they are not crew members.

It's not until you have been roaming the galaxy for a while that Ashley and the rest of the crew feel more comfortable with your squadmates.

Re: in the cockpit:  The military often provides opportunities for Americans to see some of its toys.  But I can guarantee that had you attempted to walk off with a maintenance or tech manual for the plane, you would have been in trouble.  And you weren't given the opportunity to "freely roam" about the aircraft, check out its engines and  study its hydraulics, etc.  I also bet there was an airman or some such present the whole time that you were able to take that seat.

Ashley wasn't complaining about aliens being on the Normandy at all - merely that they were unsupervised.

Who was supervising her when she first came on board?

Dr. Chakwas most likely.  It would seem sensible that Anderson would then debrief her and Alenko (probably Alenko first), and then he offered her a position on the Normandy.

robertthebard wrote...
However, freelancer, mercenary, makes no difference, once they sign on, they are a member of your crew.  If you can select them to go on missions, they are every bit as much a member of the crew as Ashley is.

Correct, however none of them, not one, is a member of the Alliance or Turian military and therefore, in Ash's thinking anyway, should not be given unrestricted access to sensitive systems like weapons, the prototype Tantalus drive core, or the IES Stealth System.

Besides it's not like she argues the point.  She brings up a concern she has, says her piece, and then accepts whatever decision you make.

Which is why I think she's a tool.  As I've said before, I don't subscribe to the racist thing, I grew up in the Deep South, when "people of color" had to ride at the back of the bus, and had seperate drinking fountains in public areas.  I have a deep understanding on racism, and while her comments do border on it, it's not close enough for me to buy it.  She is certainly biased against them, again as I pointed out, perhaps unreasonably, we don't know for sure, since all we have is her version of her grandfather's situation.  My point is, and has been, that despite the fact that w/out aliens, we wouldn't be where we are, both the Prothean site on Mars, and the Council with the Normandy, as Kaidan will explain to Joker, she acts like we got there on our own.  So I am comfortable with "tool" as an appropriate label.

Modifié par robertthebard, 27 juillet 2012 - 04:42 .

[Mathias]

Spitfire017 wrote...

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

Racist? I don't know. The worst character in the Mass Effect series? Without question.

Have you been to the Ash thread. There would be sooo many that disagree with you, since they love her character and appreciate her.

So, your statement is invalid.

I know lots of people who like her. She doesn't come close to the worst character. This issue is her views are too blunt for our overly sensitive generation.