539 réponses à ce sujet

[XqctaX]

even since she appear in ME2 she been out of character

some writer thought it would be a good idead to turn her into an ass.

[TobiTobsen]

DevilBeast wrote...

easygame88 wrote...

Barquiel wrote...


Every single species promised to help Earth before the reapers moved the citadel. The asari and turians pull their fleets away from Thessia and Palaven in order to save Earth (only the Alliance didn't spared their fleets to help alien planets). Ashley was wrong, and I wish there'd be the option to tell her.

Only after Shepard busted his ass to fix their problems first. They also didn't do it to save Earth. They did it because they finally realized only a united force could defeat the Reapers.

Well, they did keep their word and showed up with their fleets. Didn´t see the human fleets trying to save Thessia or Palaven...

They showed up when their own worlds were secured and they had no other choice, because the Reapers were in the process of butchering every race seperatly.
No human fleets showing up? Yeah... because they were fighting for their lives or were already dead and the rest tried to protect the beginning work at the crucible.

The council races behaved exactly like Ash told us in ME. The dog (Humanity) is getting butchered and all the Council tells Shep is a polite version of "Well Shep... tough luck. Have fun fightng the Reapers, were saving our own asses first".

The Salarians even have the... I don't know if I can call it "courage"... to not help you against the biggest threat to all live in the galaxy just out of petty spite, if you don't screw over an entire race.

[DevilBeast]

TobiTobsen wrote...

DevilBeast wrote...

easygame88 wrote...

Barquiel wrote...


Every single species promised to help Earth before the reapers moved the citadel. The asari and turians pull their fleets away from Thessia and Palaven in order to save Earth (only the Alliance didn't spared their fleets to help alien planets). Ashley was wrong, and I wish there'd be the option to tell her.

Only after Shepard busted his ass to fix their problems first. They also didn't do it to save Earth. They did it because they finally realized only a united force could defeat the Reapers.

Well, they did keep their word and showed up with their fleets. Didn´t see the human fleets trying to save Thessia or Palaven...

They showed up when their own worlds were secured and they had no other choice, because the Reapers were in the process of butchering every race seperatly.
No human fleets showing up? Yeah... because they were fighting for their lives or were already dead and the rest tried to protect the beginning work at the crucible.

The council races behaved exactly like Ash told us in ME. The dog (Humanity) is getting butchered and all the Council tells Shep is a polite version of "Well Shep... tough luck. Have fun fightng the Reapers, were saving our own asses first".

The Salarians even have the... I don't know if I can call it "courage"... to not help you against the biggest threat to all live in the galaxy just out of petty spite, if you don't screw over an entire race.

Their homeworlds secured?? I´m sorry, but have you seen how the reapers have managed to invade every single star system that holds advanced civilization (just look at the galaxy map) and the ending sequences that shows the different races still fighting loads of reapers on their homeworlds. Seriously, if their homeworlds were "secured" then the reapers would have been on the verge of losing, which they weren´t. Far from it.

No, the fact is that they still had a ton of **** on their hands, but still they showed up to fight for Earth while humanity were only concerned with their own homeworld.

Modifié par DevilBeast, 27 juillet 2012 - 06:02 .

[robertthebard]

DevilBeast wrote...

TobiTobsen wrote...

DevilBeast wrote...

easygame88 wrote...

Barquiel wrote...


Every single species promised to help Earth before the reapers moved the citadel. The asari and turians pull their fleets away from Thessia and Palaven in order to save Earth (only the Alliance didn't spared their fleets to help alien planets). Ashley was wrong, and I wish there'd be the option to tell her.

Only after Shepard busted his ass to fix their problems first. They also didn't do it to save Earth. They did it because they finally realized only a united force could defeat the Reapers.

Well, they did keep their word and showed up with their fleets. Didn´t see the human fleets trying to save Thessia or Palaven...

They showed up when their own worlds were secured and they had no other choice, because the Reapers were in the process of butchering every race seperatly.
No human fleets showing up? Yeah... because they were fighting for their lives or were already dead and the rest tried to protect the beginning work at the crucible.

The council races behaved exactly like Ash told us in ME. The dog (Humanity) is getting butchered and all the Council tells Shep is a polite version of "Well Shep... tough luck. Have fun fightng the Reapers, were saving our own asses first".

The Salarians even have the... I don't know if I can call it "courage"... to not help you against the biggest threat to all live in the galaxy just out of petty spite, if you don't screw over an entire race.

Their homeworlds secured?? I´m sorry, but have you seen how the reapers have managed to invade every single star system that holds advanced civilization (just look at the galaxy map) and the ending sequences that shows the different races still fighting loads of reapers on their homeworlds. Seriously, if their homeworlds were "secured" then the reapers would have been on the verge of losing, which their weren´t. Far from it.

No, the fact is that they still had a ton of **** on their hands, but still they showed up to fight for Earth while humanity where only concerned with their own homeworld.

They didn't show up to fight for Earth, they showed up to fight for the future of the galaxy.  They show up to defend the Crucible, and get it attached to the Citadel so that it can end the Reapers.  While they don't know how it's supposed to work, they all have the research that shows it will, or is supposed to, it's why they built it in the first place.

[Iakus]

Blue Gloves wrote...

iakus wrote...

Ash doesn't reduce aliens to that state either.  She's confused about Keepers.  Well, everyone is.  Remember Jahleed and Chorban?  And asking Avina about the Keepers sheds no light on their potential sentience either.

Yes she does.  She states she'd never been on the citadel before, she'd never seen a Keeper, and she makes her comment before Avina explains them.  She sees a giant bug with a backpack working on a computer, and even though it is clearly displaying signs of intelligence, she still makes a snide comment and nevermind the fact that she should expect tosee other species in abundance while there since it's common knowledge that the citadel is home to the most diverse collection of species in the galaxy.

Assuming you don't go exploring, the first Keeper you are likely to encounter is working near the Avina terminal by the Citadel Tower.  That's the Avina you can ask about Keepers and hear that no one knows what they are or if they're sentient or not.

 If you interpret her comment as snide, that's on you.  She sounds confused to me. 

And again, humanity is the dog in the analogy.  Humans, not aliens.  The bear (Reapers) attacks the dog (humanity) so the hunter (Council races) lets the bear kill the dog so he can get away.  Whatever they may think of humanity, they won't risk themselves if hey think letting humanity fall gives them a better shot at surviving.

umm- yes, I thoroughly understand your point, thank you for explaining it to me, again, however.
Alas, understanding is not equivalent to agreement, (at no time does the councilor suggest that humanity is no better than a pack of varren, and yet Ash directly compares other aliens to mindless creatures) and I would submit that your analogy largely proves false in any case.  The turians did NOT simply turn their backs on humanity in the end.  Yes, they needed inducement to help, but in a critical moment the Turians pull out of Palaven in order to support Earth and the crucible, even though Palaven's getting hammered, and even though they already had the Krogans and there was nothing to stop them from "throwing humainty to the bear" as it were.

Just making sure, since you keep saying that 

she actively compared other sentient, intelligent life to dogs and animals

when that is demonstrably not the case.  Shepard is more guilty of that than Ash ("You big, stupid jellyfish") 

The point of the analogy is not that the dog is mindless, not that it isn't worthy of living, or an inferior (or superior, for that matter) being but that the dog isn't human.  Evolution does not reward altruism.  

The turians did not lift a finger to help humanity until Shepard gets krogan help for Palaven (even then it took a very unorthodox primarch to come up with that deal)  And even then, by endgame Palaven was about to fall anyway.  the bear was about to eat the hunter anyway.

Modifié par iakus, 27 juillet 2012 - 06:13 .

[DevilBeast]

robertthebard wrote...

They didn't show up to fight for Earth, they showed up to fight for the future of the galaxy.  They show up to defend the Crucible, and get it attached to the Citadel so that it can end the Reapers.  While they don't know how it's supposed to work, they all have the research that shows it will, or is supposed to, it's why they built it in the first place.

Yes, that is what it´s eventually about. But the Citadel was only moved to Earth late in the game, so originally the Turians fx. promised to help Earth if Shepard in turn helped them recruiting the krogan.

[robertthebard]

DevilBeast wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

They didn't show up to fight for Earth, they showed up to fight for the future of the galaxy.  They show up to defend the Crucible, and get it attached to the Citadel so that it can end the Reapers.  While they don't know how it's supposed to work, they all have the research that shows it will, or is supposed to, it's why they built it in the first place.

Yes, that is what it´s eventually about. But the Citadel was only moved to Earth late in the game, so originally the Turians fx. promised to help Earth if Shepard in turn helped them recruiting the krogan.

Yes, for the "Final Battle" scenario.  However, no fleets were called until the Crucible was finished, which oddly coincided with the Citadel being moved to Earth.  In my head, since this is explained nowhere else, I saw the initial promise of support coming after the Crucible had been fired.  I saw it as working completely differently from what it did, however.  I thought it was going to release a Reaper paralyzing virus, or some such, and this was initially reinforced once the Citadel was unveiled as the Catalyst, since it can control all the Mass Relays, I figured that's how the virus would be transmitted to all the systems.

[Blue Gloves]

avenging_teabag wrote...

Blue Gloves wrote...

umm- yes, I thoroughly understand your point, thank you for explaining it to me, again, however.
Alas, understanding is not equivalent to agreement, (at no time does the councilor suggest that humanity is no better than a pack of varren, and yet Ash directly compares other aliens to mindless creatures) and I would submit that your analogy largely proves false in any case.  The turians did NOT simply turn their backs on humanity in the end.  Yes, they needed inducement to help, but in a critical moment the Turians pull out of Palaven in order to support Earth and the crucible, even though Palaven's getting hammered, and even though they already had the Krogans and there was nothing to stop them from "throwing humainty to the bear" as it were.

Pardon me for butting in, but the bolded part is inexcusably ignorant. Ash's words were just a comparison, a figure of speech. If I say "Wow, you're busy as a bee today", do i insult my conversation partner, comparing them to a mindless insect? No, i'm just just using a figure of speech. Similarily Ash made up an imaginary situation with animals to better illustrate her point. I'm pretty sure they teach that stuff in middle school or even earlier. 

Well, I've never claimed to be the sharpest tool in the shed, so I hope that my ignorance isn't that inexcusable, nor my middle school teachers too deplorable.  I would, however, say that telling someone they are busy as a bee is completely different from telling them they are akin to a dog and I am akin to a human.  I daresay I'd even consider it mildly offensive to be pegged with a traditionally good characteristic if it put me on the same level as a dog ex.- loyal as a dog- still not particularly nice.

Also- have a beer man, (or maybe a juice, if alcohol's off the menu) Ashley's an imaginary character, in an imaginary universe- no need to get all insulting.

Modifié par Blue Gloves, 27 juillet 2012 - 07:54 .

[Blue Gloves]

iakus wrote...


  Shepard is more guilty of that than Ash ("You big, stupid jellyfish") 

Oh- no doubt!  Funny- but still kinda racist.  All my Shepards are pretty much tools though, so, you know.  Not really the point of the thread.
As to the rest, we've both sorta been bashing each other over the heads with the same point for 2 pages now.  It boils down to this- you think her comments are guarded, not racist, and I think they're racist, or at least indicative of racism and/or xenophelia. 
Thanks for the debate.  Tip of the cap and all that.
Exit- stage left.

edit:  well, maybe not completely exit- xenopheli/ phobia?  Guess it's an example of my inexcusable ignorance.

Modifié par Blue Gloves, 27 juillet 2012 - 07:58 .

[Apocaleepse360]

Generic Screen Name wrote...

RyanSoup wrote...

legion999 wrote...

She's not. ****ing. Racist.

But yeah, her Cerberus hatred went way too far. If you shoot her on the coup mission she'll sometimes even say she hopes the Reapers will send you to hell.

She's pretty overtly racist in the first game.

Nope.

Yep.

*Shepard, Kaiden and Ashley walking in the Citadel during ME1*
Ashley: "I can't tell the aliens from the animals in here."

THAT is racist.

[DevilBeast]

robertthebard wrote...

DevilBeast wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

They didn't show up to fight for Earth, they showed up to fight for the future of the galaxy.  They show up to defend the Crucible, and get it attached to the Citadel so that it can end the Reapers.  While they don't know how it's supposed to work, they all have the research that shows it will, or is supposed to, it's why they built it in the first place.

Yes, that is what it´s eventually about. But the Citadel was only moved to Earth late in the game, so originally the Turians fx. promised to help Earth if Shepard in turn helped them recruiting the krogan.

Yes, for the "Final Battle" scenario.  However, no fleets were called until the Crucible was finished, which oddly coincided with the Citadel being moved to Earth.  In my head, since this is explained nowhere else, I saw the initial promise of support coming after the Crucible had been fired.  I saw it as working completely differently from what it did, however.  I thought it was going to release a Reaper paralyzing virus, or some such, and this was initially reinforced once the Citadel was unveiled as the Catalyst, since it can control all the Mass Relays, I figured that's how the virus would be transmitted to all the systems.

Yeah, I thought it was something like that too. Some sort of killswitch or something that would screw up, I dunno, their cognitve systems or whatever.

[DevilBeast]

Apocaleepse360 wrote...

Generic Screen Name wrote...

RyanSoup wrote...

legion999 wrote...

She's not. ****ing. Racist.

But yeah, her Cerberus hatred went way too far. If you shoot her on the coup mission she'll sometimes even say she hopes the Reapers will send you to hell.

She's pretty overtly racist in the first game.

Nope.

Yep.

*Shepard, Kaiden and Ashley walking in the Citadel during ME1*
Ashley: "I can't tell the aliens from the animals in here."

THAT is racist.

*awaiting response from iakus*

[Iakus]

DevilBeast wrote...

Apocaleepse360 wrote...

Yep.

*Shepard, Kaiden and Ashley walking in the Citadel during ME1*
Ashley: "I can't tell the aliens from the animals in here."

THAT is racist.

*awaiting response from iakus*

WHO DARES INVOKE MY NAME? 

::sees another "aliens from animals" post::

I outta just bookmark my post and copy/paste it every twelve hours or so:

It's a bug!

Look at where she says the line.  It's always in the vicinity of a Keeper.  If there's no Keeper around, she doesn't say it.  She's supposed to be closer to them so it's more obvious, but the range is too far

Modifié par iakus, 27 juillet 2012 - 08:39 .

[robertthebard]

Blue Gloves wrote...

avenging_teabag wrote...

Blue Gloves wrote...

umm- yes, I thoroughly understand your point, thank you for explaining it to me, again, however.
Alas, understanding is not equivalent to agreement, (at no time does the councilor suggest that humanity is no better than a pack of varren, and yet Ash directly compares other aliens to mindless creatures) and I would submit that your analogy largely proves false in any case.  The turians did NOT simply turn their backs on humanity in the end.  Yes, they needed inducement to help, but in a critical moment the Turians pull out of Palaven in order to support Earth and the crucible, even though Palaven's getting hammered, and even though they already had the Krogans and there was nothing to stop them from "throwing humainty to the bear" as it were.

Pardon me for butting in, but the bolded part is inexcusably ignorant. Ash's words were just a comparison, a figure of speech. If I say "Wow, you're busy as a bee today", do i insult my conversation partner, comparing them to a mindless insect? No, i'm just just using a figure of speech. Similarily Ash made up an imaginary situation with animals to better illustrate her point. I'm pretty sure they teach that stuff in middle school or even earlier. 

Well, I've never claimed to be the sharpest tool in the shed, so I hope that my ignorance isn't that inexcusable, nor my middle school teachers too deplorable.  I would, however, say that telling someone they are busy as a bee is completely different from telling them they are akin to a dog and I am akin to a human.  I daresay I'd even consider it mildly offensive to be pegged with a traditionally good characteristic if it put me on the same level as a dog ex.- loyal as a dog- still not particularly nice.

Also- have a beer man, (or maybe a juice, if alcohol's off the menu) Ashley's an imaginary character, in an imaginary universe- no need to get all insulting.

I don't know, I have called all of my friends dogs, or worse, at one time or another, or at some point of insobriety or another.  We all still get along ok.  Except Spot, he can't get over me calling him dog all the time, and has taking to peeing on my car.  I'd chase him down and kick his ass, but he has four legs, and runs a lot faster than I do.

[dublin omega 223]

Apocaleepse360 wrote...

Generic Screen Name wrote...

RyanSoup wrote...

legion999 wrote...

She's not. ****ing. Racist.

But yeah, her Cerberus hatred went way too far. If you shoot her on the coup mission she'll sometimes even say she hopes the Reapers will send you to hell.

She's pretty overtly racist in the first game.

Nope.

Yep.

*Shepard, Kaiden and Ashley walking in the Citadel during ME1*
Ashley: "I can't tell the aliens from the animals in here."

THAT is racist.

I gotta agree Ashley was definately racist in fact when I first played ME2, i was expecting to see a plot twist where you learned she was a member of Cerberus the whole time.

And in ME3, with her racist idealogy she'd be a terrible choice for a spectre, but then again Saren was a spectre after all:whistle:.

[TobiTobsen]

DevilBeast wrote...

Their homeworlds secured?? I´m sorry, but have you seen how the reapers have managed to invade every single star system that holds advanced civilization (just look at the galaxy map) and the ending sequences that shows the different races still fighting loads of reapers on their homeworlds. Seriously, if their homeworlds were "secured" then the reapers would have been on the verge of losing, which they weren´t. Far from it.

No, the fact is that they still had a ton of **** on their hands, but still they showed up to fight for Earth while humanity were only concerned with their own homeworld.

Asari councilor: "The cruel and unfortunate truth is that while the Reapers focus on Earth we can prepare and regroup."
That's the bear and dog analogy live and in action.

What I saw after that was a Human who had to fight for every big alien species to maybe get some help from them.

And in the end they didn't even showed up to fight for Earth. They showed up to fight for the Citadel. That it's in the Sol system is just a coincidence.

Modifié par TobiTobsen, 27 juillet 2012 - 10:44 .

[krasnoarmeets]

TobiTobsen wrote...

DevilBeast wrote...

Their homeworlds secured?? I´m sorry, but have you seen how the reapers have managed to invade every single star system that holds advanced civilization (just look at the galaxy map) and the ending sequences that shows the different races still fighting loads of reapers on their homeworlds. Seriously, if their homeworlds were "secured" then the reapers would have been on the verge of losing, which they weren´t. Far from it.

No, the fact is that they still had a ton of **** on their hands, but still they showed up to fight for Earth while humanity were only concerned with their own homeworld.

Asari councilor: "The cruel and unfortunate truth is that while the Reapers focus on Earth we can prepare and regroup."
That's the bear and dog analogy live and in action.

What I saw after that was a Human who had to fight for every big alien species to maybe get some help from them.

And in the end they didn't even showed up to fight for Earth. They showed up to fight for the Citadel. That it's in the Sol system is just a coincidence.

And yet you see Asari, krogans and Turians fighting together with humans on Earth. Down on the ground, getting dirty and bloody. The citadel is seen to be the key to everything.

Ashley certainly was racist in ME1. Then again look at Navigator Presley, he was too. You can note the change in his attitude when you read from his datapad in ME2 when scouring that ice dwarf for the Normandy crew rermains. Is there any evidence that trait still exists in ME3 in Ashley? I don't think so. The bear-dog analogy was openly racist whether she believed it or not at the time, but it's correct to say that the Asari councillors analogy was equal to Ashley's. Look where it got the Asari though. Palaven received assistance. There were no Krogan troops on Thessia. 

It's rather disappointing that your actions throughout the series be they racist or otherwise have no real bearing on the war assets available to you. It doesn't have any impact on their availability or to what lengths you have to go to in order to get them. That's my biggest beef in this arena. Maelon's data means more Krogan troops. So what? Let the council die, save the council -  no difference. It also has no bearing on their willingness to help you out. You get the brush off regardless of the sacrifices you've made.

[Apocaleepse360]

iakus wrote...

DevilBeast wrote...

Apocaleepse360 wrote...

Yep.

*Shepard, Kaiden and Ashley walking in the Citadel during ME1*
Ashley: "I can't tell the aliens from the animals in here."

THAT is racist.

*awaiting response from iakus*

WHO DARES INVOKE MY NAME? 

::sees another "aliens from animals" post::

I outta just bookmark my post and copy/paste it every twelve hours or so:

It's a bug!

Look at where she says the line.  It's always in the vicinity of a Keeper.  If there's no Keeper around, she doesn't say it.  She's supposed to be closer to them so it's more obvious, but the range is too far

She said it in the Embassy when I was playing.

[iSousek]

Apocaleepse360 wrote...

Generic Screen Name wrote...

RyanSoup wrote...

legion999 wrote...

She's not. ****ing. Racist.

But yeah, her Cerberus hatred went way too far. If you shoot her on the coup mission she'll sometimes even say she hopes the Reapers will send you to hell.

She's pretty overtly racist in the first game.

Nope.

Yep.

*Shepard, Kaiden and Ashley walking in the Citadel during ME1*
Ashley: "I can't tell the aliens from the animals in here."

THAT is racist.

That's not rascist? Do you even know what rascism is?

This is just anthropocentristic view on species you met for the first time. You try to explain them through what is known to humans. So suddenly Turian or Krogan legs remind you of most mammals, Keepers look like bugs and Hanar remind you of some aquatic organism.

It's not rascist any more than shepard saying that Liara's dad is her 'mother'.

It would be rascist if she was saying that there are fundamental characteristics (not physical) of those species that make them no better than animals.

[Lokanaiya]

Ashley: "Humans have to stick together and look out for ourselves, because when the time comes aliens will only watch out and take care of their own people!"

ME2--
Tali: finishes the job assigned to her by the admiralty board, comes with Shepard as soon as she can.
Garrus: Whether or not he's going to come back to the Normandy with you and join your squad is never even discussed, because the second he sees you he's already decided he's going to join your crew again.
Wrex: Greets you with genuine warmth on Tuchanka and, out of everyone else, is the happiest to see you alive. Would come with you, but he's busy leading the krogan, trying to make a better future for them.
Liara: Recovers your body and gives you to Cerberus in the first place, helps you out as much as she can, but is busy being an information broker. In the LotSB and the scene on the Normandy proves how much Shepard and Liara trust each other. She also gives you free access to many of her resources as Shadow Broker.
Every alien squadmate + Jack: States repeatedly that they are only there because of Shepard and are very loyal to Shepard by the end.
Ashley: Shepard saves her life (again) on Horizon, and she responds by giving Shepard hell about some rumors and reports she's heard without giving Shepard much of a chance to explain and not really listening to what Shepard does say.

And let's not even get into ME3.

For someone who believes so strongly that humans should stick together, you'd think she'd be more inclined to support or at least listen to Shepard than some of those "aliens who will only look out for themselves."

[Deihjan]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Racism is the belief that one race is superior to another.

"Look, if you're fighting a bear, and your only way to survive is to sic your dog at it and run, you'll do it. As much as you love your dog it isn't human. It's not racism, not really. Members of their species will always be more important to them than humans are."

This is a terrible metaphor if you're trying not to make yourself seem racist. Comparing other species to that of a dog doesn't fit the definition of racist?

When I first heard Ashley say that, along with her xenophobic remarks about Tali, Wrex, Garrus and Liara when first I played ME1, I was sick to my stomach.
She reminds me too much of my father and she comes off as borderline racist as well as xenophobic.

She compares other highly intelligent, even more advanced than humanity-species to dogs, and she wasn't even trying to hide her hatred or mistrust toward Liara when Shepard experiences the flashbacks from the Beacon.
She will kill Wrex with no remorse and little to no hesitation on Virmire, if Shepard even as much as blinks and tries to think about it a little 'too' long, because he's an alien. If Wrex had been human, Ashley would have given him the benefit of the doubt or have seen the issue from his side, even if she didn't agree with his opinions.

I am glad that I never rescued her on Virmire. I am glad that I let her fry and I am so unimaginably pleased that she has issues in ME3 beyond those she harbours toward Shepard, because it just proves to me even more that Kaidan Alenko was the right choice for saving on Virmire, forgiving after Horizon and forcing to shoot Udina on the Citadel.

Yes, I may be a Shenko fangirl, but I would never, ever be able to let any Shepard, male, female, homosexual, heterosexual, omnisexual or any other kind of definition keep Ashley Williams alive after Virmire, because she makes such a bad example of a soldier, no, a human, in the 22nd Century with space faring technology and first contact having happened 50 years prior to her birth.
Even her grandfather was a better example of a soldier during Shanxi.

[TobiTobsen]

Deihjan wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Racism is the belief that one race is superior to another.

"Look, if you're fighting a bear, and your only way to survive is to sic your dog at it and run, you'll do it. As much as you love your dog it isn't human. It's not racism, not really. Members of their species will always be more important to them than humans are."

This is a terrible metaphor if you're trying not to make yourself seem racist. Comparing other species to that of a dog doesn't fit the definition of racist?

When I first heard Ashley say that, along with her xenophobic remarks about Tali, Wrex, Garrus and Liara when first I played ME1, I was sick to my stomach.
She reminds me too much of my father and she comes off as borderline racist as well as xenophobic.

She compares other highly intelligent, even more advanced than humanity-species to dogs, and she wasn't even trying to hide her hatred or mistrust toward Liara when Shepard experiences the flashbacks from the Beacon.
She will kill Wrex with no remorse and little to no hesitation on Virmire, if Shepard even as much as blinks and tries to think about it a little 'too' long, because he's an alien. If Wrex had been human, Ashley would have given him the benefit of the doubt or have seen the issue from his side, even if she didn't agree with his opinions.

I am glad that I never rescued her on Virmire. I am glad that I let her fry and I am so unimaginably pleased that she has issues in ME3 beyond those she harbours toward Shepard, because it just proves to me even more that Kaidan Alenko was the right choice for saving on Virmire, forgiving after Horizon and forcing to shoot Udina on the Citadel.

Yes, I may be a Shenko fangirl, but I would never, ever be able to let any Shepard, male, female, homosexual, heterosexual, omnisexual or any other kind of definition keep Ashley Williams alive after Virmire, because she makes such a bad example of a soldier, no, a human, in the 22nd Century with space faring technology and first contact having happened 50 years prior to her birth.
Even her grandfather was a better example of a soldier during Shanxi.

HUMANITY is the dog. Not the aliens.

And she kills Wrex after he pulled a gun on her superior officer and was a second away from murdering Shepard because he/she failed to talk the Krogan down.

[aTrueFool]

Deihjan wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Racism is the belief that one race is superior to another.

"Look, if you're fighting a bear, and your only way to survive is to sic your dog at it and run, you'll do it. As much as you love your dog it isn't human. It's not racism, not really. Members of their species will always be more important to them than humans are."

This is a terrible metaphor if you're trying not to make yourself seem racist. Comparing other species to that of a dog doesn't fit the definition of racist?

When I first heard Ashley say that, along with her xenophobic remarks about Tali, Wrex, Garrus and Liara when first I played ME1, I was sick to my stomach.
She reminds me too much of my father and she comes off as borderline racist as well as xenophobic.

She compares other highly intelligent, even more advanced than humanity-species to dogs, and she wasn't even trying to hide her hatred or mistrust toward Liara when Shepard experiences the flashbacks from the Beacon.
She will kill Wrex with no remorse and little to no hesitation on Virmire, if Shepard even as much as blinks and tries to think about it a little 'too' long, because he's an alien. If Wrex had been human, Ashley would have given him the benefit of the doubt or have seen the issue from his side, even if she didn't agree with his opinions.

I am glad that I never rescued her on Virmire. I am glad that I let her fry and I am so unimaginably pleased that she has issues in ME3 beyond those she harbours toward Shepard, because it just proves to me even more that Kaidan Alenko was the right choice for saving on Virmire, forgiving after Horizon and forcing to shoot Udina on the Citadel.

Yes, I may be a Shenko fangirl, but I would never, ever be able to let any Shepard, male, female, homosexual, heterosexual, omnisexual or any other kind of definition keep Ashley Williams alive after Virmire, because she makes such a bad example of a soldier, no, a human, in the 22nd Century with space faring technology and first contact having happened 50 years prior to her birth.
Even her grandfather was a better example of a soldier during Shanxi.

You do realise the the dog in that metaphor is humanity not aliens. She is saying that aliens will look to their own interests before humanity's, just like humans would put theirs before aliens.

i.e. everyone is just as much of a selfish jerk as each other no matter if you're blue, hairy ,spikey, humpy, four eyed, suit wearing, artifical or used to eat flies.

Modifié par aTrueFool, 28 juillet 2012 - 12:47 .

[Dendio1]

Haters gonna Hate. Ash is fine

[BD Manchild]

My god, the sheer amount of stupidity, misinterpretation and willful delusion in this thread is absolutely unbelievable. People STILL get Ashley's bear/dog analogy completely backwards even after it has been explained to them numerous times?

Christ, I've never known a place filled with more people who are basically willing to ignore facts for their own stupid agendas.