539 réponses à ce sujet

[CHALET]

Oh for pities sake.

She DISTRUSTS aliens, she's not RACIST. She never goes up to Garrus and says "Get your filthy mandibels off the ship alien scum!". Hell, she even describes Tali as her Lil Sister away-from-home. She even disapproves of the anti-alien Terra Firma party and that's before Cerberus is even properly introduced and fleshed out in Mass Effect 2. 

People need to realise as well that non of the characters see the things Shepard have seen. They don't have access to the Mass Effect wiki and Shepard doesn't Livestream his daily life. Wouldn't -YOU- find it odd that you just saw your lover/commander get blown out of the Normandy only to magically appear back at full health a few years later? That and he never thought to contact her. Oh yeah and there were the side-quests in Mass Effect 1 where they get up to all sorts of hilariously fun and innocent experiments. 

She (and Kaidan) even apologise for the way they acted. Cue Mass Effect 3 and she only starts becoming paranoid when they find out Cerberus troops are indoctrinated. Lets look at it from their angle; Shepard dies, gets brought back to life by Cerberus, works for them for a year, then it turns out they're being mind controlled to serve? That sounds a bit suspicious to me.

Oh and it's also incredibly easy to get her to stand-down on the Citadel unless you're deliberately trying to provoke her.

Modifié par CHALET, 24 juillet 2012 - 12:42 .

[Fawx9]

Oh look, its this thread. She isn't racist for wanting the alliance to be able to handle its own **** before being the dogs of the council.

Also she and Pressly were right, how do you think Quarians got their stealth tech.

PS I am not advocating that they should have been locked up, just that sometimes you have to be a realist about things and realize letting outsiders on board a classified ship can make the things that are classified open to the public easily.

PSS I also find it hugley funny that it was Tali, her 'little sister'. Also not meaning that Tali is evil and a horrible person but its a funny string of incidents.

Modifié par Fawx9, 24 juillet 2012 - 12:47 .

[TookYoCookies]

legion999 wrote...

She's not. ****ing. Racist.

But yeah, her Cerberus hatred went way too far. If you shoot her on the coup mission she'll sometimes even say she hopes the Reapers will send you to hell.

" I cant tell the animals from the aliens!" - quote Ashley Williams on the Citadel. Yup. Definitely not racist.

[Lazurukeel]

TookYoCookies wrote...

legion999 wrote...

She's not. ****ing. Racist.

But yeah, her Cerberus hatred went way too far. If you shoot her on the coup mission she'll sometimes even say she hopes the Reapers will send you to hell.

" I cant tell the animals from the aliens!" - quote Ashley Williams on the Citadel. Yup. Definitely not racist.

Wouldn't it be more xenophobia than racism?

[CHALET]

TookYoCookies wrote...

legion999 wrote...

She's not. ****ing. Racist.

But yeah, her Cerberus hatred went way too far. If you shoot her on the coup mission she'll sometimes even say she hopes the Reapers will send you to hell.

" I cant tell the animals from the aliens!" - quote Ashley Williams on the Citadel. Yup. Definitely not racist.

Or it could just be her describing the wide array of spiecies. I mean if you saw a Elcor before hearing it speak wouldn't you assume it was some sort of pack mule? If you saw a Hanar you'd assume it was just a jellyfish.

[TookYoCookies]

Lazurukeel wrote...

TookYoCookies wrote...

legion999 wrote...

She's not. ****ing. Racist.

But yeah, her Cerberus hatred went way too far. If you shoot her on the coup mission she'll sometimes even say she hopes the Reapers will send you to hell.

" I cant tell the animals from the aliens!" - quote Ashley Williams on the Citadel. Yup. Definitely not racist.

Wouldn't it be more xenophobia than racism?

Xenophobia meaning shes scared of them?

[TookYoCookies]

CHALET wrote...

TookYoCookies wrote...

legion999 wrote...

She's not. ****ing. Racist.

But yeah, her Cerberus hatred went way too far. If you shoot her on the coup mission she'll sometimes even say she hopes the Reapers will send you to hell.

" I cant tell the animals from the aliens!" - quote Ashley Williams on the Citadel. Yup. Definitely not racist.

Or it could just be her describing the wide array of spiecies. I mean if you saw a Elcor before hearing it speak wouldn't you assume it was some sort of pack mule? If you saw a Hanar you'd assume it was just a jellyfish.

Nah. But, then again, im not racist.

[The Angry One]

legion999 wrote...

She's not. ****ing. Racist.

But yeah, her Cerberus hatred went way too far. If you shoot her on the coup mission she'll sometimes even say she hopes the Reapers will send you to hell.

...

Do you expect her to be polite after being shot?

[Lazurukeel]

TookYoCookies wrote...

Lazurukeel wrote...

TookYoCookies wrote...

legion999 wrote...

She's not. ****ing. Racist.

But yeah, her Cerberus hatred went way too far. If you shoot her on the coup mission she'll sometimes even say she hopes the Reapers will send you to hell.

" I cant tell the animals from the aliens!" - quote Ashley Williams on the Citadel. Yup. Definitely not racist.

Wouldn't it be more xenophobia than racism?

Xenophobia meaning shes scared of them?

Irrational fear, usually due to lack of understanding. Doesn't mean she cowers before them but she does have a great distrust for these particular foreigners without a valid reason.

[General User]

TookYoCookies wrote...

legion999 wrote...

She's not. ****ing. Racist.

But yeah, her Cerberus hatred went way too far. If you shoot her on the coup mission she'll sometimes even say she hopes the Reapers will send you to hell.

" I cant tell the animals from the aliens!" - quote Ashley Williams on the Citadel. Yup. Definitely not racist.

Sarcasm?  In any case when the aliens include Elcor and Hanar, which do bear more resemblance to animals than any of the other sentient races, and Keepers which are better classififed as animals (or even better: as tools) than people despite using technology...

When viewed in the context of the actual aliens on the Citadel, Ash's observation is neither racist nor xenophobic, but acute, if somewhat obnoxious.

Modifié par General User, 24 juillet 2012 - 01:16 .

[Iakus]

TookYoCookies wrote...

legion999 wrote...

She's not. ****ing. Racist.

But yeah, her Cerberus hatred went way too far. If you shoot her on the coup mission she'll sometimes even say she hopes the Reapers will send you to hell.

" I cant tell the animals from the aliens!" - quote Ashley Williams on the Citadel. Yup. Definitely not racist.

That's in reference to the Keepers.  She only says that when you're near one.  And nobody knows if they are aliens, animals, or what.  It was unknown how sentient they are

[Goneaviking]

Arken wrote...

Ashley is more xenophobic than racist. She sees aliens as different than humans, but doesn't inherently wish them or ill. When Ashley meets members of Terra Firma, she even points out she doesn't approve of their hostility towards aliens. She just thinks humans need to find their own place in the galaxy.

This is why Ashley's reaction to Cerberus pisses me off. Cerberus represents everything Ashley believes in, and yet she is intent on hating the organization even before they went completely brain dead.

I don't recall Ashley advocating the kind of ruthless, reckless and unregulated scientific experimentation on humans that Cerberus utilises. In all three games.

Or you know, the assassinations of religious, military and political leaders that have been attributed to them.

Or executing an Alliance soldier outside an Alliance facility in which they had just butchered every living thing except Liara.

The problem with Ashley isn't that she hates Cerberus, which is both consistent with her character and a rational response to Cerberus' actions that she is privy to; the problem is that she doesn't give Shepard a chance to convince her that she's loyal to the Alliance even while she's gunning down Cerberus troopers by the truckload.

[MB957]

dis tahs lak gooby

[Iakus]

Goneaviking wrote...
The problem with Ashley isn't that she hates Cerberus, which is both consistent with her character and a rational response to Cerberus' actions that she is privy to; the problem is that she doesn't give Shepard a chance to convince her that she's loyal to the Alliance even while she's gunning down Cerberus troopers by the truckload.

She explains it during the Mars mission.  She's afraid that the Illusive Man did something to Shepard that could influence him/her possibly without Shepard even knowing.  Seeing the huskified trooper gets her to say it outright, saying they could have done the same thing to Shepard.

I'm glad they went this route in ME3, rather than the "traitor" route in ME2 which, frankly was rather ETF. 

[The_Shootist]

RyanSoup wrote...

legion999 wrote...

She's not. ****ing. Racist.

But yeah, her Cerberus hatred went way too far. If you shoot her on the coup mission she'll sometimes even say she hopes the Reapers will send you to hell.

She's pretty overtly racist in the first game.

Aliens are a different species, not a different race. Racism implies, no, demands, that the object of scorn be of the same species. Ashley was a specieist, not a racist (an over used term anyway).

Modifié par The_Shootist, 24 juillet 2012 - 01:25 .

[The Twilight God]

RyanSoup wrote...

v TricKy v wrote...
Did you even had conversations with her or are you just basing your argument on one remark of her?
Because if you talked to her you would know that she is not a racist. She hates even the Terra Firma Party because they have a lot of racist people in there.

That's toward the end of the game, bro.  You're cherry picking examples that don't fit.  She's pretty open about it early on in the game

What dialog makes you think she's racist. Please post it.

[obZen DF]

Some people are always sticking to their believe when they dislike something.
Alot of people who dislike Ashley call her Racist and what not. I bet, if those people liked Ashley, they were actually seeing that Ashley is far from racist.
I love Ashley, she's my partner/sister in saving the galaxy. Just like Garrus is my bro.

[General User]

nhsknudsen wrote...

RyanSoup wrote...

nhsknudsen wrote...

Tell me why she tells Terra Firma to pack their **** up then and leave?

She only states that humanity should not cater to alien interests before their own, as aliens will surely cater to their interests before humans.

Kinda the same way nations work on Earth, really. How alarmingly racist...

She also states that she's uncomfortable letting the aliens roam the Normandy freely.

Well, I doubt many Americans let Chinese people roam their most advanced aircraft carrier freely, or even British who are allies, Catch the drift?

Aye.  Americans don't even allow Americans to roam around their navy's ships freely.  No one does. 

The aliens that can/are brought on board the SR-1 are, by definition, dangerous foreign nationals whose backgrounds range from dubious (Garrus, Tali) to downright alarming (Wrex, Liara).  Ash was right, those aliens should have had their movements and access monitored and restricted.

[BatmanPWNS]

First, she isn't racist .She finds Shepard and Tali to be a cute couple and calls Tali her litte sister. So how is she racist?

And secondly, how is she the biggest tool? A tool is someone who cannot form their own opinion and blindly follows someone. If there had to be someone close to a tool then it would probably be Garrus.

[Goneaviking]

iakus wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...
The problem with Ashley isn't that she hates Cerberus, which is both consistent with her character and a rational response to Cerberus' actions that she is privy to; the problem is that she doesn't give Shepard a chance to convince her that she's loyal to the Alliance even while she's gunning down Cerberus troopers by the truckload.

She explains it during the Mars mission.  She's afraid that the Illusive Man did something to Shepard that could influence him/her possibly without Shepard even knowing.  Seeing the huskified trooper gets her to say it outright, saying they could have done the same thing to Shepard.

I'm glad they went this route in ME3, rather than the "traitor" route in ME2 which, frankly was rather ETF. 

I agree that her concerns are rational and well founded. It does become problematic however when she witnesses Shepard killing Cerberus' troops, telling the Illusive Man he's a tool and just the fact that Shepard saves her life after she gets taken down by Eva when it would have been easy and convenient to just kill her en route to the Citadel given her open distrust for Shepard and Cerberus.

Overall I don't even really have a problem with her writing in this regard, but I can't see why Shepard would invite her back into his crew given their problematic relationship. It just seems like asking for trouble that neither of them can afford.

[Maias227]

obZen DF wrote...

Some people are always sticking to their believe when they dislike something.
Alot of people who dislike Ashley call her Racist and what not. I bet, if those people liked Ashley, they were actually seeing that Ashley is far from racist.
I love Ashley, she's my partner/sister in saving the galaxy. Just like Garrus is my bro.

this.

[chuckles471]

I didn't really care about her being a "racist".

I just found her incredibly annoying. "I don't trust you, wha wha wha".

I just wish instead of killing her, their was an option to use the handle of your pistol on her face like the scene in goodfellas. Knock some intelligence into her dead botox face.

[Goneaviking]

The Twilight God wrote...

RyanSoup wrote...

v TricKy v wrote...
Did you even had conversations with her or are you just basing your argument on one remark of her?
Because if you talked to her you would know that she is not a racist. She hates even the Terra Firma Party because they have a lot of racist people in there.

That's toward the end of the game, bro.  You're cherry picking examples that don't fit.  She's pretty open about it early on in the game

What dialog makes you think she's racist. Please post it.

It's the part about siccing your dog on a bear so that you can escape (and that that's what aliens would do to us) because as much as you like your dog you know it's not human and you wouldn't die for it.

Also worth noting that it's pretty much what happened in when push came to shove.

[Total Biscuit]

I'd say she's a tool, as in slang for a dick.

Ashley Williams is definitely a dick.

I mean ignore the Xenophobia and ****yness, her dog metophore always made me want to reach through the screen and slap her.

If my dog was beig attacked by a bear, I'd attack the damned bear with just my bare (ah-ha) hands if there was nothing to use as a weapon. Same with any of my pets. And I very much doubt there are many dog lovers that wouldn't do the same. Most pets are like children to their owners, they even cause the exact same neurological changes in the brain as having a baby does.

You can love and value something unconditionally even if it isn't the same species. The fact that she can't comprehend that is a far more damning personality trait than some mild racism/fear of the different.

[Goneaviking]

Total Biscuit wrote...

If my dog was beig attacked by a bear, I'd attack the damned bear with just my bare (ah-ha) hands if there was nothing to use as a weapon. Same with any of my pets.

Good for you, you truly are a champion of awesomeness.

And I very much doubt there are many dog lovers that wouldn't do the same.

Suspect you may be transferring your own personality onto others there. Also most dog owners probably aren't "dog lovers" so much as "dog owners", but I don't have any figures to back that up.

Most pets are like children to their owners,

I'm willing to bet that most parents privilege their actual children over their pets. But you know, I'm operating on the assumption that most people can actually tell the difference.

they even cause the exact same neurological changes in the brain as having a baby does.

We may be making different assumptions.

You can love and value something unconditionally even if it isn't the same species. The fact that she can't comprehend that is a far more damning personality trait than some mild racism/fear of the different.

She was using the metaphor to make a statement about politics and nationalist loyalties; not about friendship, love or pet ownership.

Modifié par Goneaviking, 24 juillet 2012 - 02:18 .