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Ashley Williams: the Galaxy's Biggest Tool


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#126
Ryzaki

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Zjarcal wrote...

I got to kill her in ME3, that makes up for any annoying things she did in the previous games.Posted Image


I'm still bleh on not being able to tell the VS to GTFO without sounding like Shep likes them.

Would a "I don't trust you, I don't like you and I don't want you anywhere near my ship GTFO kthxbye" been so hard to implement? Nooooo Shep has to be all nice. Gag me with a spoon. can't even shoot them in the face without being all DX poor VS who was too stupid to put the damn gun down when they were vastly outnumbered! Blargh.

#127
robertthebard

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iakus wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...

I agree that her concerns are rational and well founded. It does become problematic however when she witnesses Shepard killing Cerberus' troops, telling the Illusive Man he's a tool and just the fact that Shepard saves her life after she gets taken down by Eva when it would have been easy and convenient to just kill her en route to the Citadel given her open distrust for Shepard and Cerberus.

Overall I don't even really have a problem with her writing in this regard, but I can't see why Shepard would invite her back into his crew given their problematic relationship. It just seems like asking for trouble that neither of them can afford.


It's pretty clear TIM doesn't value human life very much.  He could have been quite willing to sacrifice them to avoid blowing Shepard's "cover" Particularly if Shepard didn't know about a control chip either.

And I don't know about anyone else, but after Mars and the Eva incident, Ash told my Shep that she accepts Shepard cut all ties with Cerberus.  She even voiced a preference for rejoining the Normandy once she was healed up. 

It didn't come up again until the coup, when Shep came bursting out of an elevator shaft full of Cerberus assassins.  Even then she was pretty quick to believe Shepard's version. 

If you don't miss the paragon interrupt.  Otherwise, you can shoot her because she won't stand down, and can tell you, I had to make a stand, you taught me that, guess it depends on who shoots her, because in that particular instance, Garrus did it.  I missed it because my cat decided that was a good time to go all cat ninja on my arm.  I much prefer to let her live, and tell her no, I don't want her on my ship, since I can't trust her to follow my orders w/out question.

#128
mjh417

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She a huge tool cause thats how Bioware wrote her to be. I hated her for it, but by the end of ME3 I had forgiven her.

#129
Fawx9

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robertthebard wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

robertthebard wrote...
Yes, because spending the first hour of the game harping on you about why Cerberus is on Mars == not a tool.  Racist, I don't see it, tool?  Yes, yes I do.  If I could shoot her on the elevator on Mars, I would.  If I could shoot her in the Tram Control/Tram bay, I would.  If I could shoot her on Horizon, I would.  I didn't like the idea of being shoehorned into working for Cerberus in 2 either, but when she had a chance to help me keep the mission clean of Cerberus taint, she walked away.  How come we can't say:  She's dead, after Eva bot bangs her on the shuttle, and just leave her?


How is someone that doesn't go with the pack, go with what they believe in, a tool? Ashley questioned Shepard when none other did. She questioned Shepard when s/he needed to be questioned. Ashley didn't just follow Shepard blindly.

If you want to shoot her, then those are your personal feelings because you don't like her, wether it's because she questioned Shepard or from any other reason. In my opinion, Shepard deserved the mistrust. In my opinon, Shepard deserved to get hit by Ashley. Even with saving the galaxy, Shepard worked for the wrong people. Terrorists. Ashley has the right to doubt Shepard after that. If not her, then who will? If not for people like Ashley (or Kaidan, btw) the galaxy will already be under Cerberus's rule. Or at least very close to it. Cerberus themselves knew that with Shepard's help, they can go way up in the galaxy.

In just what context did Shepard need to be questioned, especially after James makes it clear that there was no way Shepard had any contact with Cerberus after he turns himself in.  This is an important detail, there was no pitched battle in which Shepard was captured, he turned himself in, after delaying yet another Reaper plot, all while the Alliance/Council sat on their asses doing nothing, even with what Ashley saw at Horizon.  Where does stopping the Collectors from getting the entire colony suddenly shift to working for the Collectors.  The fact is, based on the events of ME 2, barring Arrival DLC, which she doesn't have security clearance for most likely, where does she get the feeling that she needs to question Shepard?  Exactly what role did the Alliance or Council play in stopping the threat?  Oh, that's right, she went to investigate Cerberus for working with the Collectors?  The events on Horizon were, of course, staged for her benefit?

Isn't it funny that she will automatically support Udina, who, for political expedience, will disregard the events around Sovereign, despite the fact that Ash could have very well been standing there listening to Vigil?  In one of my playthroughs, this is exactly what happened.  She will automatically trust him over Shepard, despite knowing that Udina did nothing to attempt to drive the council towards being ready for what's coming, and will, more to the point, suspect that, despite what she knows to be true historically, believe that Cerberus is working for the Collectors/Reapers.

There is a point where one's actions should speak louder than another's suspicions, and Ash and Kaidan both go to the extreme, well past that point.  Since I don't play ME 2 as a Cerberus Boot Licker, I turn over the intel from one of the missions to the Alliance.  She's got clearance enough to know that.  She is standing right there when you talk to both Anderson and Hackett, and yet questions their orders.  So does she think that Shepard's indoctrinated them?  Is this where she's getting her "mistrust" of Shepard?  Or, is she just being pigheaded, and resentful that she didn't get command of the Normandy?  Because frankly, yes, she does come across as just that petty all through Mars, and the only reason it doesn't carry on early is because she's in the hospital, incapable of pursuing her "suspicions".


TIMs entire story arch is fighting against those that are secrertly controlling him.

The VS is the only one that has this worry with Shepard, which no matter how silly it may look to the player with their meta knoweldge, does not make it unreasonable.

And she's shocked at the udina thing. The entire Alliance trusts him (the reason he's on the council). Anyone would be if you said that to them. After the shock wore off she sides with you and everything works out. Unless you were an ass to her.

#130
SpamBot2000

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Whoa, this is still going on... It would be more impressive to morally condemn racism if you weren't indulging in fantasies of beating/pistol whipping/shooting someone for the crime of annoying you at the same time.

#131
Yakko77

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RyanSoup wrote...

legion999 wrote...

She's not. ****ing. Racist.

But yeah, her Cerberus hatred went way too far. If you shoot her on the coup mission she'll sometimes even say she hopes the Reapers will send you to hell.


She's pretty overtly racist in the first game.


No.  She's not.  Not even a little bit.  She doesn't trust aliens.  That is NOT equivalent to HATING them. 

Plus if you bring her and a alien squadmate along for the elevator rides, she shows she is anything but racist and is in fact very sympathetic to them.

#132
robertthebard

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Fawx9 wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

robertthebard wrote...
Yes, because spending the first hour of the game harping on you about why Cerberus is on Mars == not a tool.  Racist, I don't see it, tool?  Yes, yes I do.  If I could shoot her on the elevator on Mars, I would.  If I could shoot her in the Tram Control/Tram bay, I would.  If I could shoot her on Horizon, I would.  I didn't like the idea of being shoehorned into working for Cerberus in 2 either, but when she had a chance to help me keep the mission clean of Cerberus taint, she walked away.  How come we can't say:  She's dead, after Eva bot bangs her on the shuttle, and just leave her?


How is someone that doesn't go with the pack, go with what they believe in, a tool? Ashley questioned Shepard when none other did. She questioned Shepard when s/he needed to be questioned. Ashley didn't just follow Shepard blindly.

If you want to shoot her, then those are your personal feelings because you don't like her, wether it's because she questioned Shepard or from any other reason. In my opinion, Shepard deserved the mistrust. In my opinon, Shepard deserved to get hit by Ashley. Even with saving the galaxy, Shepard worked for the wrong people. Terrorists. Ashley has the right to doubt Shepard after that. If not her, then who will? If not for people like Ashley (or Kaidan, btw) the galaxy will already be under Cerberus's rule. Or at least very close to it. Cerberus themselves knew that with Shepard's help, they can go way up in the galaxy.

In just what context did Shepard need to be questioned, especially after James makes it clear that there was no way Shepard had any contact with Cerberus after he turns himself in.  This is an important detail, there was no pitched battle in which Shepard was captured, he turned himself in, after delaying yet another Reaper plot, all while the Alliance/Council sat on their asses doing nothing, even with what Ashley saw at Horizon.  Where does stopping the Collectors from getting the entire colony suddenly shift to working for the Collectors.  The fact is, based on the events of ME 2, barring Arrival DLC, which she doesn't have security clearance for most likely, where does she get the feeling that she needs to question Shepard?  Exactly what role did the Alliance or Council play in stopping the threat?  Oh, that's right, she went to investigate Cerberus for working with the Collectors?  The events on Horizon were, of course, staged for her benefit?

Isn't it funny that she will automatically support Udina, who, for political expedience, will disregard the events around Sovereign, despite the fact that Ash could have very well been standing there listening to Vigil?  In one of my playthroughs, this is exactly what happened.  She will automatically trust him over Shepard, despite knowing that Udina did nothing to attempt to drive the council towards being ready for what's coming, and will, more to the point, suspect that, despite what she knows to be true historically, believe that Cerberus is working for the Collectors/Reapers.

There is a point where one's actions should speak louder than another's suspicions, and Ash and Kaidan both go to the extreme, well past that point.  Since I don't play ME 2 as a Cerberus Boot Licker, I turn over the intel from one of the missions to the Alliance.  She's got clearance enough to know that.  She is standing right there when you talk to both Anderson and Hackett, and yet questions their orders.  So does she think that Shepard's indoctrinated them?  Is this where she's getting her "mistrust" of Shepard?  Or, is she just being pigheaded, and resentful that she didn't get command of the Normandy?  Because frankly, yes, she does come across as just that petty all through Mars, and the only reason it doesn't carry on early is because she's in the hospital, incapable of pursuing her "suspicions".


TIMs entire story arch is fighting against those that are secrertly controlling him.

The VS is the only one that has this worry with Shepard, which no matter how silly it may look to the player with their meta knoweldge, does not make it unreasonable.

And she's shocked at the udina thing. The entire Alliance trusts him (the reason he's on the council). Anyone would be if you said that to them. After the shock wore off she sides with you and everything works out. Unless you were an ass to her.

Udina is on the Council because we put him there, even if we put Anderson there, oddly enough.  Nobody questioned that, and in fact gave us that oppurtunity, because we saved the Citadel.

#133
Fawx9

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robertthebard wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

robertthebard wrote...
Yes, because spending the first hour of the game harping on you about why Cerberus is on Mars == not a tool.  Racist, I don't see it, tool?  Yes, yes I do.  If I could shoot her on the elevator on Mars, I would.  If I could shoot her in the Tram Control/Tram bay, I would.  If I could shoot her on Horizon, I would.  I didn't like the idea of being shoehorned into working for Cerberus in 2 either, but when she had a chance to help me keep the mission clean of Cerberus taint, she walked away.  How come we can't say:  She's dead, after Eva bot bangs her on the shuttle, and just leave her?


How is someone that doesn't go with the pack, go with what they believe in, a tool? Ashley questioned Shepard when none other did. She questioned Shepard when s/he needed to be questioned. Ashley didn't just follow Shepard blindly.

If you want to shoot her, then those are your personal feelings because you don't like her, wether it's because she questioned Shepard or from any other reason. In my opinion, Shepard deserved the mistrust. In my opinon, Shepard deserved to get hit by Ashley. Even with saving the galaxy, Shepard worked for the wrong people. Terrorists. Ashley has the right to doubt Shepard after that. If not her, then who will? If not for people like Ashley (or Kaidan, btw) the galaxy will already be under Cerberus's rule. Or at least very close to it. Cerberus themselves knew that with Shepard's help, they can go way up in the galaxy.

In just what context did Shepard need to be questioned, especially after James makes it clear that there was no way Shepard had any contact with Cerberus after he turns himself in.  This is an important detail, there was no pitched battle in which Shepard was captured, he turned himself in, after delaying yet another Reaper plot, all while the Alliance/Council sat on their asses doing nothing, even with what Ashley saw at Horizon.  Where does stopping the Collectors from getting the entire colony suddenly shift to working for the Collectors.  The fact is, based on the events of ME 2, barring Arrival DLC, which she doesn't have security clearance for most likely, where does she get the feeling that she needs to question Shepard?  Exactly what role did the Alliance or Council play in stopping the threat?  Oh, that's right, she went to investigate Cerberus for working with the Collectors?  The events on Horizon were, of course, staged for her benefit?

Isn't it funny that she will automatically support Udina, who, for political expedience, will disregard the events around Sovereign, despite the fact that Ash could have very well been standing there listening to Vigil?  In one of my playthroughs, this is exactly what happened.  She will automatically trust him over Shepard, despite knowing that Udina did nothing to attempt to drive the council towards being ready for what's coming, and will, more to the point, suspect that, despite what she knows to be true historically, believe that Cerberus is working for the Collectors/Reapers.

There is a point where one's actions should speak louder than another's suspicions, and Ash and Kaidan both go to the extreme, well past that point.  Since I don't play ME 2 as a Cerberus Boot Licker, I turn over the intel from one of the missions to the Alliance.  She's got clearance enough to know that.  She is standing right there when you talk to both Anderson and Hackett, and yet questions their orders.  So does she think that Shepard's indoctrinated them?  Is this where she's getting her "mistrust" of Shepard?  Or, is she just being pigheaded, and resentful that she didn't get command of the Normandy?  Because frankly, yes, she does come across as just that petty all through Mars, and the only reason it doesn't carry on early is because she's in the hospital, incapable of pursuing her "suspicions".


TIMs entire story arch is fighting against those that are secrertly controlling him.

The VS is the only one that has this worry with Shepard, which no matter how silly it may look to the player with their meta knoweldge, does not make it unreasonable.

And she's shocked at the udina thing. The entire Alliance trusts him (the reason he's on the council). Anyone would be if you said that to them. After the shock wore off she sides with you and everything works out. Unless you were an ass to her.

Udina is on the Council because we put him there, even if we put Anderson there, oddly enough.  Nobody questioned that, and in fact gave us that oppurtunity, because we saved the Citadel.


It still doens't change the fact that a council member is apppointed and Udina wouldn't be there if he wasn't trusted by the majority of the alliance to represent humanity.

#134
Olive Oomph

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Ashley was a fantastic character in ME1, unfortunately only in ME1. I wasn't bothered by her reaction in ME2, though is was a badly written scene. It was nothing more than a cameo. The simplistic reduction of her character to a few basic traits however, that happened in ME3, is unforgivable :(

Modifié par Olive Oomph, 24 juillet 2012 - 04:25 .


#135
robertthebard

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Fawx9 wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

robertthebard wrote...
Yes, because spending the first hour of the game harping on you about why Cerberus is on Mars == not a tool.  Racist, I don't see it, tool?  Yes, yes I do.  If I could shoot her on the elevator on Mars, I would.  If I could shoot her in the Tram Control/Tram bay, I would.  If I could shoot her on Horizon, I would.  I didn't like the idea of being shoehorned into working for Cerberus in 2 either, but when she had a chance to help me keep the mission clean of Cerberus taint, she walked away.  How come we can't say:  She's dead, after Eva bot bangs her on the shuttle, and just leave her?


How is someone that doesn't go with the pack, go with what they believe in, a tool? Ashley questioned Shepard when none other did. She questioned Shepard when s/he needed to be questioned. Ashley didn't just follow Shepard blindly.

If you want to shoot her, then those are your personal feelings because you don't like her, wether it's because she questioned Shepard or from any other reason. In my opinion, Shepard deserved the mistrust. In my opinon, Shepard deserved to get hit by Ashley. Even with saving the galaxy, Shepard worked for the wrong people. Terrorists. Ashley has the right to doubt Shepard after that. If not her, then who will? If not for people like Ashley (or Kaidan, btw) the galaxy will already be under Cerberus's rule. Or at least very close to it. Cerberus themselves knew that with Shepard's help, they can go way up in the galaxy.

In just what context did Shepard need to be questioned, especially after James makes it clear that there was no way Shepard had any contact with Cerberus after he turns himself in.  This is an important detail, there was no pitched battle in which Shepard was captured, he turned himself in, after delaying yet another Reaper plot, all while the Alliance/Council sat on their asses doing nothing, even with what Ashley saw at Horizon.  Where does stopping the Collectors from getting the entire colony suddenly shift to working for the Collectors.  The fact is, based on the events of ME 2, barring Arrival DLC, which she doesn't have security clearance for most likely, where does she get the feeling that she needs to question Shepard?  Exactly what role did the Alliance or Council play in stopping the threat?  Oh, that's right, she went to investigate Cerberus for working with the Collectors?  The events on Horizon were, of course, staged for her benefit?

Isn't it funny that she will automatically support Udina, who, for political expedience, will disregard the events around Sovereign, despite the fact that Ash could have very well been standing there listening to Vigil?  In one of my playthroughs, this is exactly what happened.  She will automatically trust him over Shepard, despite knowing that Udina did nothing to attempt to drive the council towards being ready for what's coming, and will, more to the point, suspect that, despite what she knows to be true historically, believe that Cerberus is working for the Collectors/Reapers.

There is a point where one's actions should speak louder than another's suspicions, and Ash and Kaidan both go to the extreme, well past that point.  Since I don't play ME 2 as a Cerberus Boot Licker, I turn over the intel from one of the missions to the Alliance.  She's got clearance enough to know that.  She is standing right there when you talk to both Anderson and Hackett, and yet questions their orders.  So does she think that Shepard's indoctrinated them?  Is this where she's getting her "mistrust" of Shepard?  Or, is she just being pigheaded, and resentful that she didn't get command of the Normandy?  Because frankly, yes, she does come across as just that petty all through Mars, and the only reason it doesn't carry on early is because she's in the hospital, incapable of pursuing her "suspicions".


TIMs entire story arch is fighting against those that are secrertly controlling him.

The VS is the only one that has this worry with Shepard, which no matter how silly it may look to the player with their meta knoweldge, does not make it unreasonable.

And she's shocked at the udina thing. The entire Alliance trusts him (the reason he's on the council). Anyone would be if you said that to them. After the shock wore off she sides with you and everything works out. Unless you were an ass to her.

Udina is on the Council because we put him there, even if we put Anderson there, oddly enough.  Nobody questioned that, and in fact gave us that oppurtunity, because we saved the Citadel.


It still doens't change the fact that a council member is apppointed and Udina wouldn't be there if he wasn't trusted by the majority of the alliance to represent humanity.

Nor should it change the fact that Ashley hates politicians, and will tell you so in Ambassador Udina's office in ME 1.  So what changed?  Is he less of a politician in 2 or 3?  In the majority of my playthroughs, he certainly is in 2, since he works for Anderson.  Of course, since the Reapers are busy ravaging Earth, he does seem to come off as more concerned about the threat, imagine that...Posted Image

#136
Fawx9

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robertthebard wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

robertthebard wrote...
Yes, because spending the first hour of the game harping on you about why Cerberus is on Mars == not a tool.  Racist, I don't see it, tool?  Yes, yes I do.  If I could shoot her on the elevator on Mars, I would.  If I could shoot her in the Tram Control/Tram bay, I would.  If I could shoot her on Horizon, I would.  I didn't like the idea of being shoehorned into working for Cerberus in 2 either, but when she had a chance to help me keep the mission clean of Cerberus taint, she walked away.  How come we can't say:  She's dead, after Eva bot bangs her on the shuttle, and just leave her?


How is someone that doesn't go with the pack, go with what they believe in, a tool? Ashley questioned Shepard when none other did. She questioned Shepard when s/he needed to be questioned. Ashley didn't just follow Shepard blindly.

If you want to shoot her, then those are your personal feelings because you don't like her, wether it's because she questioned Shepard or from any other reason. In my opinion, Shepard deserved the mistrust. In my opinon, Shepard deserved to get hit by Ashley. Even with saving the galaxy, Shepard worked for the wrong people. Terrorists. Ashley has the right to doubt Shepard after that. If not her, then who will? If not for people like Ashley (or Kaidan, btw) the galaxy will already be under Cerberus's rule. Or at least very close to it. Cerberus themselves knew that with Shepard's help, they can go way up in the galaxy.

In just what context did Shepard need to be questioned, especially after James makes it clear that there was no way Shepard had any contact with Cerberus after he turns himself in.  This is an important detail, there was no pitched battle in which Shepard was captured, he turned himself in, after delaying yet another Reaper plot, all while the Alliance/Council sat on their asses doing nothing, even with what Ashley saw at Horizon.  Where does stopping the Collectors from getting the entire colony suddenly shift to working for the Collectors.  The fact is, based on the events of ME 2, barring Arrival DLC, which she doesn't have security clearance for most likely, where does she get the feeling that she needs to question Shepard?  Exactly what role did the Alliance or Council play in stopping the threat?  Oh, that's right, she went to investigate Cerberus for working with the Collectors?  The events on Horizon were, of course, staged for her benefit?

Isn't it funny that she will automatically support Udina, who, for political expedience, will disregard the events around Sovereign, despite the fact that Ash could have very well been standing there listening to Vigil?  In one of my playthroughs, this is exactly what happened.  She will automatically trust him over Shepard, despite knowing that Udina did nothing to attempt to drive the council towards being ready for what's coming, and will, more to the point, suspect that, despite what she knows to be true historically, believe that Cerberus is working for the Collectors/Reapers.

There is a point where one's actions should speak louder than another's suspicions, and Ash and Kaidan both go to the extreme, well past that point.  Since I don't play ME 2 as a Cerberus Boot Licker, I turn over the intel from one of the missions to the Alliance.  She's got clearance enough to know that.  She is standing right there when you talk to both Anderson and Hackett, and yet questions their orders.  So does she think that Shepard's indoctrinated them?  Is this where she's getting her "mistrust" of Shepard?  Or, is she just being pigheaded, and resentful that she didn't get command of the Normandy?  Because frankly, yes, she does come across as just that petty all through Mars, and the only reason it doesn't carry on early is because she's in the hospital, incapable of pursuing her "suspicions".


TIMs entire story arch is fighting against those that are secrertly controlling him.

The VS is the only one that has this worry with Shepard, which no matter how silly it may look to the player with their meta knoweldge, does not make it unreasonable.

And she's shocked at the udina thing. The entire Alliance trusts him (the reason he's on the council). Anyone would be if you said that to them. After the shock wore off she sides with you and everything works out. Unless you were an ass to her.

Udina is on the Council because we put him there, even if we put Anderson there, oddly enough.  Nobody questioned that, and in fact gave us that oppurtunity, because we saved the Citadel.


It still doens't change the fact that a council member is apppointed and Udina wouldn't be there if he wasn't trusted by the majority of the alliance to represent humanity.

Nor should it change the fact that Ashley hates politicians, and will tell you so in Ambassador Udina's office in ME 1.  So what changed?  Is he less of a politician in 2 or 3?  In the majority of my playthroughs, he certainly is in 2, since he works for Anderson.  Of course, since the Reapers are busy ravaging Earth, he does seem to come off as more concerned about the threat, imagine that...Posted Image



Do you trust someone less just because their attitude pisses you off? He has given no character in game any rason to distrust him (the thing with Bailey is maybe something one could like at but it was a side point that was never followed up on in game). Anderson trusts him, hacket trusts him, the alliance trusts him, the fact that he was working with cerberus shocks everyone. Why is the VS not allowed to be shocked?

#137
Guest_wiggles_*

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RyanSoup wrote...

Ignoring her idiotic racism in the first game

Stopped reading.

#138
Ageless Face

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robertthebard wrote...
In just what context did Shepard need to be questioned, especially after James makes it clear that there was no way Shepard had any contact with Cerberus after he turns himself in.  This is an important detail, there was no pitched battle in which Shepard was captured, he turned himself in, after delaying yet another Reaper plot, all while the Alliance/Council sat on their asses doing nothing, even with what Ashley saw at Horizon.  Where does stopping the Collectors from getting the entire colony suddenly shift to working for the Collectors.  The fact is, based on the events of ME 2, barring Arrival DLC, which she doesn't have security clearance for most likely, where does she get the feeling that she needs to question Shepard?  Exactly what role did the Alliance or Council play in stopping the threat?  Oh, that's right, she went to investigate Cerberus for working with the Collectors?  The events on Horizon were, of course, staged for her benefit?

 

And Shepard having no contact with Cerberus changes the fact s/he worked for them? Shepard might not be the same person s/he used to be. Shepard could still have a terrorist heart. Shepard can have a control chip. And tell me, who are you going to believe? The people you worked for several years, know they are helping humanity in a good way, or one person who was persumed dead, came back after two years from nowhere, and went off to work for terrorists, which the military you work for it fighting them several years? Don't tell me you are going to believe such a person, no matter who that person was before to you. Believing Shepard, after s/he doesn't even give any evidences to Ashley that the collectors are working with the reapers, is crazy.

 
Isn't it funny that she will automatically support Udina, who, for political expedience, will disregard the events around Sovereign, despite the fact that Ash could have very well been standing there listening to Vigil?  In one of my playthroughs, this is exactly what happened.  She will automatically trust him over Shepard, despite knowing that Udina did nothing to attempt to drive the council towards being ready for what's coming, and will, more to the point, suspect that, despite what she knows to be true historically, believe that Cerberus is working for the Collectors/Reapers.

 

Udina is a respectable counciler that even if was an A-hole, still did his job. Shepard went rouge. And the fact you treat Ashley like sh** doesn't make your point any better (I assume the fact she atomatically trusts Udina is because you treated her like that). Did Shepard do anything in the last three years to make amends, to make Ashley trust him/her again? Killing some Cerberus operatives doesn't say much, from reasons I said above.

BTW, after what we saw on Mars, didn't you at least have a bit of sespect Ceberus was starting to work with the reapers? Or doing something to their soldiers with using reaper technology (which they did)? Ashley's suspicion turned correct. So you can't say she was being irrational about it.

 
There is a point where one's actions should speak louder than another's suspicions, and Ash and Kaidan both go to the extreme, well past that point.  Since I don't play ME 2 as a Cerberus Boot Licker, I turn over the intel from one of the missions to the Alliance.  She's got clearance enough to know that.  She is standing right there when you talk to both Anderson and Hackett, and yet questions their orders.  So does she think that Shepard's indoctrinated them?  Is this where she's getting her "mistrust" of Shepard?  Or, is she just being pigheaded, and resentful that she didn't get command of the Normandy?  Because frankly, yes, she does come across as just that petty all through Mars, and the only reason it doesn't carry on early is because she's in the hospital, incapable of pursuing her "suspicions".


How do you know she got clearance? How do you know Ashley even looked at anything more than the base information about what Shepard did during that time? And how exactly do you connect commandership of the Normandy to mistrust in Shepard? A person can be sincere about his mistrust without anything behind it. In fact, I didn't see anything about Kaidan or Ashley on Mars more than concern for Shepard and doubt about who's Shepard loyalty is to.

#139
Zjarcal

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Ryzaki wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

I got to kill her in ME3, that makes up for any annoying things she did in the previous games.Posted Image


I'm still bleh on not being able to tell the VS to GTFO without sounding like Shep likes them.

Would a "I don't trust you, I don't like you and I don't want you anywhere near my ship GTFO kthxbye" been so hard to implement? Nooooo Shep has to be all nice. Gag me with a spoon. can't even shoot them in the face without being all DX poor VS who was too stupid to put the damn gun down when they were vastly outnumbered! Blargh.


Lol, actually I agree, I did enjoy the things I got to say in Mars, but I wanted more nasty dialogue choices. Lemme vent my hatred towards that damn woman game!

#140
revaew

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I tried to be nice to Ashley in ME3. I even tried to romance her. But no, she is just a big tool bag. She is tacky and I hate her.

#141
F4H bandicoot

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Tell her my hatred for her???
I wanted to shoot the ****.

#142
The Twilight God

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Goneaviking wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

RyanSoup wrote...

v TricKy v wrote...
Did you even had conversations with her or are you just basing your argument on one remark of her?
Because if you talked to her you would know that she is not a racist. She hates even the Terra Firma Party because they have a lot of racist people in there.


That's toward the end of the game, bro.  You're cherry picking examples that don't fit.  She's pretty open about it early on in the game


What dialog makes you think she's racist. Please post it.


It's the part about siccing your dog on a bear so that you can escape (and that that's what aliens would do to us) because as much as you like your dog you know it's not human and you wouldn't die for it.

Also worth noting that it's pretty much what happened in when push came to shove.


And how does this make her racist exactly?

She is stating a simple sociological reality. Turians will always value turian colonies over human colonies. Asari will always value asari colonies over turian colonies. That's just a fact of life. Note that the Krogan rebellions did not officially begin until the krogan took an asari world. Apparently, it wasn't a problem until it became their problem. We can apply this same dynamic to present day earth. You can save San Antonio, Texas or Kabul, Afgahanistan. Which would you value more? Me? ASan Antonio dispite the fact that Kabul has a higher population. The fact is the Afghans aren't my people. And U.S. city is going to take precedence over any afghan city. Not because I hate them or have anything against them as a people and culture. It's just how we are wired. 

Would a sacrifice Kabul is it could divert a force that would have taken San Antonio. Yep.  I'd feel bad for them, but I'd feel even worse otherwise.

She also makes comments about Garrus and Wrex having free run of the ship. This makes sense. If I there were chinese personnel with free access to a B-2 Bomber I would raise some red flags too. We're not at war with them. We are trade partners. They've loaned us money. That doesn't mean I want them having access to our most stealth designs. Doesn't mean I hate the Chinese. 

I've sen absolutely nothing from Ashley to state she is racist. The only thing she says is "I'm no fan of aliens" in ME2.  But people have been calling her a racist since ME1.

Modifié par The Twilight God, 24 juillet 2012 - 04:38 .


#143
D1ck1e

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I remember thinking she was a jerk when I met here in ME2, but that's pretty much it.

#144
robertthebard

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Fawx9 wrote...


Do you trust someone less just because their attitude pisses you off? He has given no character in game any rason to distrust him (the thing with Bailey is maybe something one could like at but it was a side point that was never followed up on in game). Anderson trusts him, hacket trusts him, the alliance trusts him, the fact that he was working with cerberus shocks everyone. Why is the VS not allowed to be shocked?

I addressed that in the pyramid.  Couldn't see it getting any bigger w/out affecting the ability/willingness of others to actually read it.  Which is obvious, since I'm being asked to answer it again.

#145
BatmanPWNS

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I can't believe people are throwing the word tool around. Tool is someone who can't form their own opinion and follows blindly. How is Ashley a tool then?

Edit: The reason people are hating her is: A) She's human, it's so much easier to hate on your own kind than aliens really B) Because she doesn't get on the floor, lick Shepards boots and treat him/her like a God C) Seriously if this was RL, people would act more like Ashley is doing rather than like everyone else treats Shepard joining Cerberus.

Modifié par BatmanPWNS, 24 juillet 2012 - 04:43 .


#146
Iakus

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robertthebard wrote...

If you don't miss the paragon interrupt.  Otherwise, you can shoot her because she won't stand down, and can tell you, I had to make a stand, you taught me that, guess it depends on who shoots her, because in that particular instance, Garrus did it.  I missed it because my cat decided that was a good time to go all cat ninja on my arm.  I much prefer to let her live, and tell her no, I don't want her on my ship, since I can't trust her to follow my orders w/out question.


Taking the interrupt might make it easier, but you can still talk her down rather than shoot her (unless you've been an **** to her, of course)  Heck she'll even point out to Udina that Shepard killed a bunch of Cerberus goons on Mars.

Modifié par iakus, 24 juillet 2012 - 04:43 .


#147
robertthebard

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HagarIshay wrote...

robertthebard wrote...
In just what context did Shepard need to be questioned, especially after James makes it clear that there was no way Shepard had any contact with Cerberus after he turns himself in.  This is an important detail, there was no pitched battle in which Shepard was captured, he turned himself in, after delaying yet another Reaper plot, all while the Alliance/Council sat on their asses doing nothing, even with what Ashley saw at Horizon.  Where does stopping the Collectors from getting the entire colony suddenly shift to working for the Collectors.  The fact is, based on the events of ME 2, barring Arrival DLC, which she doesn't have security clearance for most likely, where does she get the feeling that she needs to question Shepard?  Exactly what role did the Alliance or Council play in stopping the threat?  Oh, that's right, she went to investigate Cerberus for working with the Collectors?  The events on Horizon were, of course, staged for her benefit?

 

And Shepard having no contact with Cerberus changes the fact s/he worked for them? Shepard might not be the same person s/he used to be. Shepard could still have a terrorist heart. Shepard can have a control chip. And tell me, who are you going to believe? The people you worked for several years, know they are helping humanity in a good way, or one person who was persumed dead, came back after two years from nowhere, and went off to work for terrorists, which the military you work for it fighting them several years? Don't tell me you are going to believe such a person, no matter who that person was before to you. Believing Shepard, after s/he doesn't even give any evidences to Ashley that the collectors are working with the reapers, is crazy.

 
Isn't it funny that she will automatically support Udina, who, for political expedience, will disregard the events around Sovereign, despite the fact that Ash could have very well been standing there listening to Vigil?  In one of my playthroughs, this is exactly what happened.  She will automatically trust him over Shepard, despite knowing that Udina did nothing to attempt to drive the council towards being ready for what's coming, and will, more to the point, suspect that, despite what she knows to be true historically, believe that Cerberus is working for the Collectors/Reapers.

 

Udina is a respectable counciler that even if was an A-hole, still did his job. Shepard went rouge. And the fact you treat Ashley like sh** doesn't make your point any better (I assume the fact she atomatically trusts Udina is because you treated her like that). Did Shepard do anything in the last three years to make amends, to make Ashley trust him/her again? Killing some Cerberus operatives doesn't say much, from reasons I said above.

BTW, after what we saw on Mars, didn't you at least have a bit of sespect Ceberus was starting to work with the reapers? Or doing something to their soldiers with using reaper technology (which they did)? Ashley's suspicion turned correct. So you can't say she was being irrational about it.

 
There is a point where one's actions should speak louder than another's suspicions, and Ash and Kaidan both go to the extreme, well past that point.  Since I don't play ME 2 as a Cerberus Boot Licker, I turn over the intel from one of the missions to the Alliance.  She's got clearance enough to know that.  She is standing right there when you talk to both Anderson and Hackett, and yet questions their orders.  So does she think that Shepard's indoctrinated them?  Is this where she's getting her "mistrust" of Shepard?  Or, is she just being pigheaded, and resentful that she didn't get command of the Normandy?  Because frankly, yes, she does come across as just that petty all through Mars, and the only reason it doesn't carry on early is because she's in the hospital, incapable of pursuing her "suspicions".


How do you know she got clearance? How do you know Ashley even looked at anything more than the base information about what Shepard did during that time? And how exactly do you connect commandership of the Normandy to mistrust in Shepard? A person can be sincere about his mistrust without anything behind it. In fact, I didn't see anything about Kaidan or Ashley on Mars more than concern for Shepard and doubt about who's Shepard loyalty is to.

So I guess this all comes down to what you told her on Horizon, instead of considering everything that happened in ME 1?  So from my viewpoint, she should be clear that my intentions were to stop the Collectors, even if it meant that I had, through no choice of my own, to work with Cerberus, not for them.  This is not semantics, I used the resources I had available to accomplish the mission.  If I could have walked away from Cerberus at any point in the game prior to the SM, I would have.  I made this as clear as the dialog system allowed on Horizon, but she chose to accuse me of working for the Collectors/Reapers.  I get it now, it makes perfect sense.  The fact that I actually saved some colonists was a show, put on for her benefit, it had nothing to do with actually wanting to save the colonists...Posted ImagePosted Image

I'm not a member of the "We banged Ashley, and she can do no wrong" fan club.  Although I actually did bang Ashley twice, once in 1 and once in 3.  It was a forgettable experience.

#148
flanny

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 yeah i saved her on my first my first play through and always regretted, i'd expected her to get over the ME2 thing by ME3 (even though she admits going to horizon to spy on shepard because she thinks he's one kidnapping colonists...WTF!), but no she spendd the entire mars mission moaning then points a gun at me during.
to cut a long story short, I went to hospital to tell i don't care we romanced in ME1 i have no feelings for her anymore, i rejected her offer to rejoin the normandy, and now i always save Carth Kaiden on virmire and skip over Shepard's apology and pretend he doesn't say anything to her 

#149
Iakus

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robertthebard wrote...
Nor should it change the fact that Ashley hates politicians, and will tell you so in Ambassador Udina's office in ME 1.  So what changed?  Is he less of a politician in 2 or 3?  In the majority of my playthroughs, he certainly is in 2, since he works for Anderson.  Of course, since the Reapers are busy ravaging Earth, he does seem to come off as more concerned about the threat, imagine that...Posted Image


What's changed is she's a Spectre now and it's her duty to protect the Council, whatever her personal feeling are. 

That said, once she's talked down, she has no compunctions about shooting Udina when he pulls a gun to shoot the asari Councilor (if you don't take the interrupt and do it yourself)

#150
robertthebard

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iakus wrote...

robertthebard wrote...
Nor should it change the fact that Ashley hates politicians, and will tell you so in Ambassador Udina's office in ME 1.  So what changed?  Is he less of a politician in 2 or 3?  In the majority of my playthroughs, he certainly is in 2, since he works for Anderson.  Of course, since the Reapers are busy ravaging Earth, he does seem to come off as more concerned about the threat, imagine that...Posted Image


What's changed is she's a Spectre now and it's her duty to protect the Council, whatever her personal feeling are. 

That said, once she's talked down, she has no compunctions about shooting Udina when he pulls a gun to shoot the asari Councilor (if you don't take the interrupt and do it yourself)


So the bribe worked, is what you're saying, since Shepard is also a Spectre.