Han Shot First wrote...
Or rather, some people like yourself like to make excuses for the largest plot hole in the series out of sheer nostalgia,
De1ta G wrote...
Conniving_Eagle wrote...
De1ta G wrote...
Neutral dialog was useless and when chosen, it was always vague and not very character defining. Tell me, what kind of necessary dialog choices were replaced?
Neutral dialogue was not useless. It was often pragmatic or sensical and it offered the player another option/stance.
For example, during Miranda's Loyalty mission when Shepard gives their thoughts on Niket.
Paragon: No, he would never betray you.
Renegade: He obviously double crossed you.
Neutral: We'll see when we get there.
Maybe neutral dialog is not useless but it isn't like it was necessary for ME 3. I don't recall any situtations like the Thane and Jacob conversation where you could tell them to both shut up ith the neutral choice. By Mass Effect 3, Shepard either regrets his/her previous choices(usually top option), or doesn't (usually bottom option).
SuperMegaWolf wrote...
Yeah. Lets get back to the topic. ME1 was the best.
wright1978 wrote...
De1ta G wrote...
wright1978 wrote...
No i roleplay in a roleplay game. Therefore i choose the dialogue that best suits my chracter rather than chasing paragon or renegade points. So neutral dialogue is very important. Nope, auto-dialogue in ME3 replaced very necessary dialogue choices repeatedly. How am i supposed to maintain my ability to characterise the Shep i've defined over 2 games if they start sticking huge amounts of character defining auto-dialogue in ME3.
Neutral dialog was useless and when chosen, it was always vague and not very character defining. Tell me, what kind of necessary dialog choices were replaced?
No neutral dialogue is not useless and it is equally character defining as paragon or renegade extremes. A particular example of necessary dialogue choices that were missing was Casey's Hudson's promise that the ability to roleplay anti-alliance would be present. It isn't, Shep is now railroaded into being an alliance loyalist , no matter if you spent all of ME2 choosing dialogue slagging them off. ME2 on the otherhand allowed the player the freedom to be reluctantly working for Cerberus, being anti both alliance and cerberus, be pro-cerberus etc. That's just one example of where auto-dialogue defined Shep. It's omni present in ME3 and is completely unacceptable. Player characterisation of the protaganist should be at the heart of ME3 but its been sidelined in favour of flowing cutscenes.
Fixed. Don't try to pass this off as a fact. Looking at Metacritic scores, ME2 would be the best received. But "best" is a very subjective distinction.SuperMegaWolf wrote...
Yeah. Lets get back to the topic. ME1 was the best in my opinion.
Conniving_Eagle wrote...
SuperMegaWolf wrote...
Yeah. Lets get back to the topic. ME1 was the best.
No. You think ME1 was the best. Stop enforcing your opinion as a fact.
SuperMegaWolf wrote...
Yeah. Lets get back to the topic. ME1 was the best.
De1ta G wrote...
Kind of hypocritcal to agree with the ideas of the enemy your killing. We all knew Cerberus was going to be an enemy in ME 3 after completing ME 2(if you didn't then you are blind). We all knew they were the bad guys. Even Joker changed his mind about Cerberus because now they are all "mainstream and evil". It was obvious TIM was indoctrinated and was a bad guy. Shepard may have agreed with Cerberus in ME 2 because they were the only ones doing anything about the Collectors, but a hero wouldn't side with an organization that turns people into husks.
But this thread is about the best game, not about the most coherent story. Story doesn't make a game. First game is always easiest when it comes to coherent plot, since it has no baggage. But game is much more than just story, and there ME1 falls short, but you disagree, and we come to conclusion that everyone has their own opinion and won't change it. Pointless. Unless we go with "the best is what majority thinks is best", but then ME2 wins easily. So superiority of ME1 isn't something you can prove in discussion, it is like arguing if red > blue, or blue > red.SuperMegaWolf wrote...
Pitznik wrote...
OP, what was the point of this thread anyway? Different people have different opinions, find different things fun, and different things annoying.
The point is that when you look at the series as a trilogy (i.e. a continuous story). The first is the most well done installment. People complain about the ending and don't realize that it is built upon prevoius installments. The first point where the overarching plot began to falter was in the second game. This, in turn, laid a bad foundation for the third. It has nothing to do with which you like the most. The first is the only one that did what was needed for a cohesive trilogy. It developed a plot, revealed a threat, and raised a lot of good quistions. Most of those questions were glossed over in the second game to allow for character interactions. These are important but when dieling with a trilogy, overarching plot is generally the most important thing. Otherwise it's just a series, like a sitcom.
Modifié par Pitznik, 24 juillet 2012 - 04:35 .
De1ta G wrote...
SuperMegaWolf wrote...
Yeah. Lets get back to the topic. ME1 was the best.
Go talk about it in the ME 1 forum then. There is one of those you know. You just have to scroll down a little further.
tonnactus wrote...
Han Shot First wrote...
Or rather, some people like yourself like to make excuses for the largest plot hole in the series out of sheer nostalgia,
People explained that "plothole" enough in other threads. Its your problem not paying attention to them. I for sure wouldnt repeat the arguments here.
Conniving_Eagle wrote...
SuperMegaWolf wrote...
Yeah. Lets get back to the topic. ME1 was the best.
No. You think ME1 was the best. Stop enforcing your opinion as a fact.
The purpose of a game is to entertain. I enjoy ME1 less than 2 and 3. IMO ME1 is the worst.SuperMegaWolf wrote...
De1ta G wrote...
SuperMegaWolf wrote...
Yeah. Lets get back to the topic. ME1 was the best.
Go talk about it in the ME 1 forum then. There is one of those you know. You just have to scroll down a little further.
Haters gonna hate. You're the one who came to the forum. You don't have to read it. I'm not forcing you to. It's your choice. Storywise, ME1 was superior. Since the purpose of these games was to involve you in a story, ME1 did the best at what it was supposed to do.
fr33stylez wrote...
Conniving_Eagle wrote...
SuperMegaWolf wrote...
Yeah. Lets get back to the topic. ME1 was the best.
No. You think ME1 was the best. Stop enforcing your opinion as a fact.
Why the heck do people say this? Sorry to pick o you, but it's a pet peeve of mine.
When I say "Chocolate cake is the best" do you immediately scream "IT'S AN OPINION! NOT A FACT!"
No **** it's an opinon! You don't have to preface every sentence you say with "Disclaimer: this is an opinon".
Do people even know what an opinon is?
Modifié par Conniving_Eagle, 24 juillet 2012 - 04:38 .
SuperMegaWolf wrote...
Conniving_Eagle wrote...
SuperMegaWolf wrote...
Yeah. Lets get back to the topic. ME1 was the best.
No. You think ME1 was the best. Stop enforcing your opinion as a fact.
It had the most well written plot for the trilogy. Plots of the other games failed to continue the overarching story arc in a cohesive manner. The gameplay wasn't as good but it did what it was supposed to in light of a trilogy. The others fell short in that respect.
De1ta G wrote...
SuperMegaWolf wrote...
Conniving_Eagle wrote...
SuperMegaWolf wrote...
Yeah. Lets get back to the topic. ME1 was the best.
No. You think ME1 was the best. Stop enforcing your opinion as a fact.
It had the most well written plot for the trilogy. Plots of the other games failed to continue the overarching story arc in a cohesive manner. The gameplay wasn't as good but it did what it was supposed to in light of a trilogy. The others fell short in that respect.
Bad alien got indoctrinated, attacked a human colony, wants to bring reapers back. You chase him around the galaxy and eventunally stop him.
Human colonies are completely vanishing. No one seems to be doing anything about it but it could be tied to the reapers. Build a super squad to improve your chances of defeated the Collectors. Find out collectors are tied to reapers and find out they used to be protheans. Eventually kill of the collectors.
Reapers have finally made it to the galaxy and are attacking Earth. Shepard must form an alliance to with all the species in the galaxy to stop them. Find a super weapon that can potentially destroy all the reapers. Once alliances are built and super weapon in completely, attack the reapers. Use the Crucible, defeat the reapers.
Don't see how any are better than the other. The story should be judged as a whole, not as individual games.
DarthKilby wrote...
I get the feeling that a lot of people confuse the ME2 character subplots with the actual plot of the game. The recruitment quests and their loyalty quests were fantastic, but they don't bring anything to the overall plot of the game let alone the series. That's just my thoughts though.
Bleh to those beloved elevators. With the fast transit panels you hardly even had to use the elevators. Most of the time it was the news instead of a conversation. When a conversation did happen, they weren't even that interesting.
I break it down to immersion with the elevator scenes. Honestly, it was a clever way to retain immersion in teh game. Nothing breaks immersion to see some ridicilous load screen/transit panel. But hey, thats just me
Nice.I have right here in my hands the CE of Mass Effect 1, Xbox 360 version (even though I don't own a 360, long story).
Look at the list of features and see which one is dead last on the list.
- Customise your character and embark on an epic adventure in an immersive, open-ended storyline.
- Interplanetary exploration of an epic proportion.
- Incredible, real-time character interation.
- Thriling tactical combat as you lead an elite squad of three.
legion999 wrote...
Han Shot First wrote...
Yes.
Being a Spectre with indoctrinated commandos who also have access to the Citadel, means you don't need something to teleport yourself and Geth to the Citadel. Saren also already had a Prothean beacon on Virmire.
The Keepers argument also doesn't work. The job of the Keepers was to open up the Citadel relay so the Reapers could jump through. In ME1 however Sovereign has completely abandoned the Keeper plan when they failed to respond. Saren didn't jump through the Conduit to fix the Keepers, he jumped through to open up the Citadel so that Sovereign could assume control and open the Citadel master relay manually.
The Keeper problem could have easily been resolved after the Reapers had annihilated the current cycle.
Indoctrinated commandos and Saren vs C-Sec and any Spectres on the Citadel. Yeah that would work perfectly.
And he needed another beacon to understand the vision.
And I don't understand what point you're trying to make with the Keepers.
wright1978 wrote...
De1ta G wrote...
Kind of hypocritcal to agree with the ideas of the enemy your killing. We all knew Cerberus was going to be an enemy in ME 3 after completing ME 2(if you didn't then you are blind). We all knew they were the bad guys. Even Joker changed his mind about Cerberus because now they are all "mainstream and evil". It was obvious TIM was indoctrinated and was a bad guy. Shepard may have agreed with Cerberus in ME 2 because they were the only ones doing anything about the Collectors, but a hero wouldn't side with an organization that turns people into husks.
No in ME2 Cerberus are portayed in a much greyer fashion. Cerberus and TIM may go nuts in ME3(rather stupidly) but that doesn't mean Shep should be railroaded into being an Alliance loyalist.
SuperMegaWolf wrote...
Conniving_Eagle wrote...
SuperMegaWolf wrote...
Yeah. Lets get back to the topic. ME1 was the best.
No. You think ME1 was the best. Stop enforcing your opinion as a fact.
It had the most well written plot for the trilogy. Plots of the other games failed to continue the overarching story arc in a cohesive manner. The gameplay wasn't as good but it did what it was supposed to in light of a trilogy. The others fell short in that respect.
[*]^Thisen2ym3 wrote...
DarthKilby wrote...
I get the feeling that a lot of people confuse the ME2 character subplots with the actual plot of the game. The recruitment quests and their loyalty quests were fantastic, but they don't bring anything to the overall plot of the game let alone the series. That's just my thoughts though.
I remember starting to play, and starting to do all the recruitment missions, thinking, "Hey, interesting sidequests - where's the plot quests?" It took me a while to accept that, like maps, there wasn't much there anymore.
The squad stuff was really well done, but I was frustrated by how little plot/universe there was in comparison to 1.Bleh to those beloved elevators. With the fast transit panels you hardly even had to use the elevators. Most of the time it was the news instead of a conversation. When a conversation did happen, they weren't even that interesting.
Beloved? Heh. I thought I was in the minority, here? Aren't they commonly despised?
You don't have to, but I amble around the Citadel more manually, more often, so I end up doing it anyways.
I do agree they didn't pop up often - in my opinon, not nearly often enough - but I loved them. Those little character moments are often part of why I love a game so much. So it makes me have a soft spot for the elevators - not entirely rational, I know.I break it down to immersion with the elevator scenes. Honestly, it was a clever way to retain immersion in teh game. Nothing breaks immersion to see some ridicilous load screen/transit panel. But hey, thats just me
Agreed. :]Nice.I have right here in my hands the CE of Mass Effect 1, Xbox 360 version (even though I don't own a 360, long story).
Look at the list of features and see which one is dead last on the list.
- Customise your character and embark on an epic adventure in an immersive, open-ended storyline.
- Interplanetary exploration of an epic proportion.
- Incredible, real-time character interation.
- Thriling tactical combat as you lead an elite squad of three.
How 'bout for ME3? I'm curious if their advertisement for the covers changed, too, with all their other ads. (I'm expecting they did)
SuperMegaWolf wrote...
De1ta G wrote...
SuperMegaWolf wrote...
Conniving_Eagle wrote...
SuperMegaWolf wrote...
Yeah. Lets get back to the topic. ME1 was the best.
No. You think ME1 was the best. Stop enforcing your opinion as a fact.
It had the most well written plot for the trilogy. Plots of the other games failed to continue the overarching story arc in a cohesive manner. The gameplay wasn't as good but it did what it was supposed to in light of a trilogy. The others fell short in that respect.
Bad alien got indoctrinated, attacked a human colony, wants to bring reapers back. You chase him around the galaxy and eventunally stop him.
Human colonies are completely vanishing. No one seems to be doing anything about it but it could be tied to the reapers. Build a super squad to improve your chances of defeated the Collectors. Find out collectors are tied to reapers and find out they used to be protheans. Eventually kill of the collectors.
Reapers have finally made it to the galaxy and are attacking Earth. Shepard must form an alliance to with all the species in the galaxy to stop them. Find a super weapon that can potentially destroy all the reapers. Once alliances are built and super weapon in completely, attack the reapers. Use the Crucible, defeat the reapers.
Don't see how any are better than the other. The story should be judged as a whole, not as individual games.
I can tell by word count that your summaries aren't objective
SuperMegaWolf wrote...
De1ta G wrote...
SuperMegaWolf wrote...
Conniving_Eagle wrote...
SuperMegaWolf wrote...
Yeah. Lets get back to the topic. ME1 was the best.
No. You think ME1 was the best. Stop enforcing your opinion as a fact.
It had the most well written plot for the trilogy. Plots of the other games failed to continue the overarching story arc in a cohesive manner. The gameplay wasn't as good but it did what it was supposed to in light of a trilogy. The others fell short in that respect.
Bad alien got indoctrinated, attacked a human colony, wants to bring reapers back. You chase him around the galaxy and eventunally stop him.
Human colonies are completely vanishing. No one seems to be doing anything about it but it could be tied to the reapers. Build a super squad to improve your chances of defeated the Collectors. Find out collectors are tied to reapers and find out they used to be protheans. Eventually kill of the collectors.
Reapers have finally made it to the galaxy and are attacking Earth. Shepard must form an alliance to with all the species in the galaxy to stop them. Find a super weapon that can potentially destroy all the reapers. Once alliances are built and super weapon in completely, attack the reapers. Use the Crucible, defeat the reapers.
Don't see how any are better than the other. The story should be judged as a whole, not as individual games.
I can tell by word count that your summaries aren't objective
Yes I agree with that. Sorry if I implied otherwise.Han Shot First wrote...
The point I was making about the Keepers is that your argument that Saren needed the Conduit to resolve the Keeper problem, doesn't hold water. He didn't go to the Citadel to fix the Keepers. He went to the Citadel to bypass the Keepers by giving Sovereign manual control.
Also, Saren was not battling the entirely of C-Sec in the ME1 end game sequence. He jumped through the Conduit with a small force of Geth that took control of a single building, allowing Sovereign to 'assume control' and for Geth dropships to disembark reinforcements.
That is exactly the sort of thing indoctrinted commandos could have done, particularly when said commandos have access to the presidium and no one had yet heard of indoctrination.
In short, the Eden Prime/Conduit plotline is the biggest plot hole in the series.
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