348 réponses à ce sujet

[RShara]

Least you guys can head canon a reunion *sigh*

[Reorte]

eye basher wrote...

That's the problem with gamers this days no imagination.

No, it is not. It's the job of the storyteller to use his imagination to satisfy the player otherwise a bare bones synopsis would be entirely satisfactory. Or a straightforward shooter, where you can imagine a load of story around it if you like. I want a story to fire my imagination and inspire me to go and create for myself, not to finish the story. I also want the level of detail and description to remain constant throughout a story. Some are more vague and ambiguous, some detail every little thing, both can be good, and both fail if they switch at all.

People with no imagination are the ones who are satisfied with the superficial. They don't care about plot or characters, they just like whizzy effects and explosions and don't care whether they're there for a good reason or not.

[3DandBeyond]

RShara wrote...

Least you guys can head canon a reunion *sigh*

Well that's purely subjective.  Some have more of an ability to do it and some, like me do very much need a total visual experience-you know what a video game is supposed to include.

But, does this mean you chose Thane as the LI or some other non-team member.

[Ageless Face]

I pick this...

chuckles471 wrote...
Movies do this all the time.

 

This...

Bioware doesn't make games just for you.

 

I'll also pick this one...

 
Use you imagination.

And this.

Stop complaining they gave you the EC.

And also one of my own:

I didn't pick destroy, but I would have liked to see Harbinger getting a message to Kaidan from AI Shepard. But hey, we can't always get what we want.

[chemiclord]

Reorte wrote...

eye basher wrote...

That's the problem with gamers this days no imagination.

No, it is not. It's the job of the storyteller to use his imagination to satisfy the player otherwise a bare bones synopsis would be entirely satisfactory. Or a straightforward shooter, where you can imagine a load of story around it if you like. I want a story to fire my imagination and inspire me to go and create for myself, not to finish the story. I also want the level of detail and description to remain constant throughout a story. Some are more vague and ambiguous, some detail every little thing, both can be good, and both fail if they switch at all.

People with no imagination are the ones who are satisfied with the superficial. They don't care about plot or characters, they just like whizzy effects and explosions and don't care whether they're there for a good reason or not.

Then you will agree that Mass Effect is not your story, then?

[Iakus]

3DandBeyond wrote...

RShara wrote...

Least you guys can head canon a reunion *sigh*

Well that's purely subjective.  Some have more of an ability to do it and some, like me do very much need a total visual experience-you know what a video game is supposed to include.

But, does this mean you chose Thane as the LI or some other non-team member.

Judging by the sig, yes.  And I sympathize.

But really, wouldn't a reunion with the Normandy crew be better than what we got?

[Iakus]

chemiclord wrote...

Reorte wrote...

eye basher wrote...

That's the problem with gamers this days no imagination.

No, it is not. It's the job of the storyteller to use his imagination to satisfy the player otherwise a bare bones synopsis would be entirely satisfactory. Or a straightforward shooter, where you can imagine a load of story around it if you like. I want a story to fire my imagination and inspire me to go and create for myself, not to finish the story. I also want the level of detail and description to remain constant throughout a story. Some are more vague and ambiguous, some detail every little thing, both can be good, and both fail if they switch at all.

People with no imagination are the ones who are satisfied with the superficial. They don't care about plot or characters, they just like whizzy effects and explosions and don't care whether they're there for a good reason or not.

Then you will agree that Mass Effect is not your story, then?

As much as any role playing campaign is the GMs.  Or the players'.

I don't like killer GMs...

[kyban]

Even through all the hate going on in here, there are some people that still care about the ending and still feel very passionately about it.
I am one of those people. Despite what everyone says, compared to the first two games this ending falls short.

[3DandBeyond]

HagarIshay wrote...

I pick this...

chuckles471 wrote...
Movies do this all the time.

 

This...

Bioware doesn't make games just for you.

 

I'll also pick this one...

 
Use you imagination.

And this.

Stop complaining they gave you the EC.

And also one of my own:

I didn't pick destroy, but I would have liked to see Harbinger getting a message to Kaidan from AI Shepard. But hey, we can't always get what we want.

Want to know exactly what ME3 isn't.  Some other story or movie that is not called Mass Effect.  I don't care what happened in "Meet the Parents" and don't want that ending in ME3.  So what happened elsewhere is unimportant.  What has happened within ME games is what matters.  Never before was Shepard's fate left to head canon and the only place it is exists in one ending.  ME should remain true to ME not some other game or movie.  Oh except when devs decide to steal the endings from other games and movies-then that art that was their vision, really needs someone else's name on it, because it was all someone else's vision, not theirs.

No one has turned off their imagination.  Bioware repeatedly breaks promises.  Closure is another promise broken.  As well people all have different sensory needs as far as stories go.  Visually attuned interactive stories more likely appeal to people due to their visual nature.  Omitting a crucial part of that in an ending does reject a NEED many people have to see events play out.  They can imagine things just fine, but it does not seem authentic or real if they do not see it.  You can't argue with that, that is how different people are "wired" especially in a visually oriented generation.  Very few people today would buy a text only "video" game.  When I was young, they were very popular.  People buy video games today for their video nature.  You might as well tell someone to speak Aramaic.  Yes, other games don't fully show their endings-see above.  However, most are not well done like this one.  And others have decent context which forces the mind to see what happens.  The destroy ending is totally ambiguous and contradictory.  We have no context for anything in it.  If you can't see what I'm talking about replay it and really listen to what the kid says and then try to explain what he is saying.  How intact is Shepard-does Shepard have a head, arms, legs?  Where is Shepard?  How long will it take the Normandy to get there?  What does the kid mean when he says, "there will be losses but no more than you have already suffered" (paraphrased)?

They "gave" us the EC to placate people because they totally botched the original endings.  They truly had to do this because EA and Bioware began to bleed money.  They did not however as yet fulfill the promises made prior to ME3's release.  The only thing the EC was meant to do was to add "color" to the crap that they released, but it still stinks.  The video game industry is sheltered by a culture of reviewers that protect the products, no matter how bad.  No other industry benefits from that.  If a product that I buy fails to do what was promised, I will complain.  If that's not your attitude then you are throwing money away.  It's time the video game industry woke up.  I hear it all the time--"game endings are always bad", "what do you expect, it's Bioware?", "games suck, move on, play something else", "other game companies are a lot worse", "other games used the same ending, so what?"  If you value your money at all, this is not acceptable.  If you keep letting companies do just whatever they want, you may as well mail me your money, because games will get worse and worse.

It's not my fault if you don't express things you'd like to see in the game but didn't.  That's your fault.  If you always accept things as they are even when you don't like them, you won't ever get anything you'd like.

The EC is the result of the devs releasing a bare bones ending that they couldn't or didn't flesh out.  Many of the things in the EC are exactly what fans speculated it could, but hopefully wouldn't mean.  Look at the scenes they did change.  Normandy landing right in front of Harbinger.  I remember people laughing when someone suggested that they might be so stupid as to mean something like that happened so the teammates would be with Joker at the end.  And, so they took that and put it in the game.  It's our fault if games continually get worse.  If you don't tell them you would actually like them to make games with great stories in them the next ME you might see will be an MMO or a COD-like action game with a small weak story.

[3DandBeyond]

iakus wrote...


Judging by the sig, yes.  And I sympathize.

But really, wouldn't a reunion with the Normandy crew be better than what we got?

Ah yes stupid me.  Duh.

Yes, I don't think this is only about love interests though I do think they continually liked to play cruel there by dropping some off of a cliff.

Thane was incredibly deep and someone that needed to have more involvement-well they all did in ME3.  They didn't need to introduce new characters-they had to allow more interaction with the ones we'd come to love.

[Marauder Shields N7]

Wu the Lotus Blossom wrote...

We deserve a lot better than pictures in our heads after investing so much emotion into this story.

[N085]

I know people say use our imagination. But if I pay £60 for a game I don't want to use my imagination to think-up my own ending. I play ME for the story not use my own imagination to create an end to said story.

[Kel Riever]

It is amazing how many people can't understand that Mass Effect has a story, with choices, and isn't actually a movie. Did you notice you use a controller instead of sitting in a theater or on your couch, watching it doing nothing?

I can go over and over again about how bad the ending was from being a story, and it STILL wouldn't address the totl failure the ending was as a video game rpg. But let's go on about comparing it to a movie, which it totally isn't....

[3DandBeyond]

Kel Riever wrote...

It is amazing how many people can't understand that Mass Effect has a story, with choices, and isn't actually a movie. Did you notice you use a controller instead of sitting in a theater or on your couch, watching it doing nothing?

I can go over and over again about how bad the ending was from being a story, and it STILL wouldn't address the totl failure the ending was as a video game rpg. But let's go on about comparing it to a movie, which it totally isn't....

This is it exactly and even further the only comparison that is relevant at all is comparing ME3 (endings) to ME1, 2, and the rest of 3. 

If it were a one game story then you would compare the ending to what you knew at the beginning of that one story and ask if it fit what came before.  I don't want to know if it's like "the Blair Witch Project" or an episode of "The Big Bang Theory".  They don't matter.  What matters is how 3 games have treated the ends of stories in them and how they've always treated Shepard at the end of a story.  ME1 and 2 are clear about Shepard's fate.  They show what happens.  Compare the torso, fill in the blanks scene and it does not fit. 

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

The dream sequences. At first I was like WTF. Then at the last one when I saw "myself" with the kid, my first thought was "aw geez not this **** again." This was the start of the 2001 A Space Idiocy stuff for the game. The End is nigh! You will die!

Then they try to move you emotionally when you talk to your comrades. If you're Liara's bondmate, she is saying "goodbye". It is planned right here. You're going to die. This is it. Game over. And we wonder why Shepard's last "inspiring speech" was so lackluster? Then your character gets taken over for 30 minutes of what mental torture. It was like Mac Walters sadistically playing with you, but without consent. This is another matter of why we hate the endings so much. We had no control.

And that scene where Shepard collapses? I think the dream sequences, tied in with everyone saying goodbye, and then especially from the laser blast onward up to the Catalyst scene was for one purpose and one purpose alone: to break the player. It was cruel, done without consent because in the past there had always been hope. Here there was none. I hate them for it. The Catalyst scene was to show you how powerless you are. You are broken and alone. Then you leave the galaxy a wasteland, and get a gasp of air, unless you go along with the program.

Honestly? The reunion scene is the only thing that can make any future DLC worth purchasing. If they don't patch the EC with this simple six second scene IMO they might as well not even bother making any. I'm not buying any if they don't. I know there are a lot of others who aren't going to buy any either if they don't. A so called "glimmer of hope" doesn't cut it.

Six seconds of Shepard holding hands his/her LI and the crew is standing around in groups watching the sun rise for a new day at the end.

If you don't want this scene, don't gather all the resources. It's that simple.

They can head canon my money.

[chemiclord]

iakus wrote...

As much as any role playing campaign is the GMs.  Or the players'.

I don't like killer GMs...

If the GM wrote every line of dialogue in the campaign, and made you choose which one you wanted, the comparison would be apt.  Since they don't, sorry... the analogy does not work.  There is no player/GM cooperation in Mass Effect.  They do everything.  You just read from the script they already wrote in full.

And the answer to not playing with "killer GMs" is not to play with them.  Problem solved.

But the greater point is, you can't scream "this is our story too!" then refuse to make it your story when prompted.  Either it was never "our story" in the first place, or you never wanted it to be.

"It's our story... well, until we don't want it to be... after that point, it's all yours... BUT YOU BETTER TELL IT THE WAY I WANT IT!"  doesn't fly.

Modifié par chemiclord, 25 juillet 2012 - 07:46 .

[AresKeith]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

The dream sequences. At first I was like WTF. Then at the last one when I saw "myself" with the kid, my first thought was "aw geez not this **** again." This was the start of the 2001 A Space Idiocy stuff for the game. The End is nigh! You will die!

Then they try to move you emotionally when you talk to your comrades. If you're Liara's bondmate, she is saying "goodbye". It is planned right here. You're going to die. This is it. Game over. And we wonder why Shepard's last "inspiring speech" was so lackluster? Then your character gets taken over for 30 minutes of what mental torture. It was like Mac Walters sadistically playing with you, but without consent. This is another matter of why we hate the endings so much. We had no control.

And that scene where Shepard collapses? I think the dream sequences, tied in with everyone saying goodbye, and then especially from the laser blast onward up to the Catalyst scene was for one purpose and one purpose alone: to break the player. It was cruel, done without consent because in the past there had always been hope. Here there was none. I hate them for it. The Catalyst scene was to show you how powerless you are. You are broken and alone. Then you leave the galaxy a wasteland, and get a gasp of air, unless you go along with the program.

Honestly? The reunion scene is the only thing that can make any future DLC worth purchasing. If they don't patch the EC with this simple six second scene IMO they might as well not even bother making any. I'm not buying any if they don't. I know there are a lot of others who aren't going to buy any either if they don't. A so called "glimmer of hope" doesn't cut it.

Six seconds of Shepard holding hands his/her LI and the crew is standing around in groups watching the sun rise for a new day at the end.

If you don't want this scene, don't gather all the resources. It's that simple.

They can head canon my money.

they'll headcanon a billion dollars lol

[Carlthestrange]

I've settled down and accepted my fate now. After all, I've moved on to newer and more exciting games, that i would be playing this moment if it weren't so damn hot today.

[Wu the Lotus Blossom]

I really miss mods. Remember the amazing stuff they did for DA:O?

[RoboticWays]

Oh my god, The game takes a brain to understand. BW doesnt NEED to explain everything, You can see the symbolism with the nightmares and the kid. Symbolism is in every great movie, every great book, you just have to look for it. As far as a reunion, that would be nice. But the reason BW made this "non-canon" ending is because they thought it would be fun for us to speculate with. Just like in the Inception ending. I always wanted an ending like TDKR but we all know its not going to happen. Stop whining about the ending, start chanting for a reunion DLC.

[Ozida]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

The dream sequences. At first I was like WTF. Then at the last one when I saw "myself" with the kid, my first thought was "aw geez not this **** again." This was the start of the 2001 A Space Idiocy stuff for the game. The End is nigh! You will die!

Then they try to move you emotionally when you talk to your comrades. If you're Liara's bondmate, she is saying "goodbye". It is planned right here. You're going to die. This is it. Game over. And we wonder why Shepard's last "inspiring speech" was so lackluster? Then your character gets taken over for 30 minutes of what mental torture. It was like Mac Walters sadistically playing with you, but without consent. This is another matter of why we hate the endings so much. We had no control.

And that scene where Shepard collapses? I think the dream sequences, tied in with everyone saying goodbye, and then especially from the laser blast onward up to the Catalyst scene was for one purpose and one purpose alone: to break the player. It was cruel, done without consent because in the past there had always been hope. Here there was none. I hate them for it. The Catalyst scene was to show you how powerless you are. You are broken and alone. Then you leave the galaxy a wasteland, and get a gasp of air, unless you go along with the program.

Honestly? The reunion scene is the only thing that can make any future DLC worth purchasing. If they don't patch the EC with this simple six second scene IMO they might as well not even bother making any. I'm not buying any if they don't. I know there are a lot of others who aren't going to buy any either if they don't. A so called "glimmer of hope" doesn't cut it.

Six seconds of Shepard holding hands his/her LI and the crew is standing around in groups watching the sun rise for a new day at the end.

If you don't want this scene, don't gather all the resources. It's that simple.

They can head canon my money.

+1

[Ticonderoga117]

HagarIshay wrote...

I pick this...

chuckles471 wrote...
Movies do this all the time.

 

This...

Bioware doesn't make games just for you.

 

I'll also pick this one...

 
Use you imagination.

And this.

Stop complaining they gave you the EC.

And also one of my own:

I didn't pick destroy, but I would have liked to see Harbinger getting a message to Kaidan from AI Shepard. But hey, we can't always get what we want.

Mass Effect is not a 2 hour movie.

BioWare makes games for all of us, and when most are unhappy with said product, then something has gone wrong.

I didn't pay $60 to "use my imagination" for a vital part of the story.

EC helped, but Destroy is still "Lol, use your imagination to fill in the rest" and GlowBoy is still there, breaking lore all over the place.

[RoboticWays]

Wu the Lotus Blossom wrote...

I really miss mods. Remember the amazing stuff they did for DA:O?

This.

[3DandBeyond]

RoboticWays wrote...

Oh my god, The game takes a brain to understand. BW doesnt NEED to explain everything, You can see the symbolism with the nightmares and the kid. Symbolism is in every great movie, every great book, you just have to look for it. As far as a reunion, that would be nice. But the reason BW made this "non-canon" ending is because they thought it would be fun for us to speculate with. Just like in the Inception ending. I always wanted an ending like TDKR but we all know its not going to happen. Stop whining about the ending, start chanting for a reunion DLC.

You actually need something to be fun for it to be fun.  We see things in vastly different ways-see, it's as it should be which explains why synthesis is so bad.

To illustrate this, would you like it if you saw everything from my perspective?  Would you like it if we always only ever agreed on every point?  Would that be fun, inspiring, get you to think, or boring, stagnating, and rather annoying.  Synthesis has been altered by people to mean that everyone would still have their own personalities, but really synthesis wouldn't allow it.  If we both see and know everything from only one point of view, we lack perspective.  We won't disagree because we know the same things.  I can't tell you anything you don't know and you can't tell me anything I don't know.  There's no value in talking, writing, discussing.  No learning to be had and no way to even really know how to learn. 

This is just one point.  They wanted us to think about the endings and implied they were intellectual, but if you think about them they are in no way happy or fulfilling.

And I take exception to referring to Inception.  I don't care what other games and stories do with their endings.  This is Mass Effect.  ME1 and 2 and even stories within 3 clearly show Shepard's and other's fates, Shepard's always being most important.  The only thing that ME 3 can be and should be compared to is ME3.  I won't compare this to the show Dexter or any other movie or show other than to say that endings in those other shows need to fit with their stories.  Harry Potter needed to end in a way that fit Harry Potter and not Superman.  ME3 needed to have an ending that fit ME and I don't think it does.

[RoboticWays]

3DandBeyond wrote...

RoboticWays wrote...

Oh my god, The game takes a brain to understand. BW doesnt NEED to explain everything, You can see the symbolism with the nightmares and the kid. Symbolism is in every great movie, every great book, you just have to look for it. As far as a reunion, that would be nice. But the reason BW made this "non-canon" ending is because they thought it would be fun for us to speculate with. Just like in the Inception ending. I always wanted an ending like TDKR but we all know its not going to happen. Stop whining about the ending, start chanting for a reunion DLC.

You actually need something to be fun for it to be fun.  We see things in vastly different ways-see, it's as it should be which explains why synthesis is so bad.

To illustrate this, would you like it if you saw everything from my perspective?  Would you like it if we always only ever agreed on every point?  Would that be fun, inspiring, get you to think, or boring, stagnating, and rather annoying.  Synthesis has been altered by people to mean that everyone would still have their own personalities, but really synthesis wouldn't allow it.  If we both see and know everything from only one point of view, we lack perspective.  We won't disagree because we know the same things.  I can't tell you anything you don't know and you can't tell me anything I don't know.  There's no value in talking, writing, discussing.  No learning to be had and no way to even really know how to learn. 

This is just one point.  They wanted us to think about the endings and implied they were intellectual, but if you think about them they are in no way happy or fulfilling.

And I take exception to referring to Inception.  I don't care what other games and stories do with their endings.  This is Mass Effect.  ME1 and 2 and even stories within 3 clearly show Shepard's and other's fates, Shepard's always being most important.  The only thing that ME 3 can be and should be compared to is ME3.  I won't compare this to the show Dexter or any other movie or show other than to say that endings in those other shows need to fit with their stories.  Harry Potter needed to end in a way that fit Harry Potter and not Superman.  ME3 needed to have an ending that fit ME and I don't think it does.

I myself, Hate the ending. But i dont see a real reason to make thread after thread about it. Sure, we feel cheated, but for what good is it going to do, to sit around talking about how we were cheated? EC was the end, That's all they're doing to the it, that's the farthest it's getting tweaked. So if you wanted more variables added to give everybody the happy ending they wanted, you're asking a lemon tree for apples. ME deserved a better ending. But BW isnt giving it one. The closest thing you can get, is a Reunion DLC for those with high EMS, but even that is a longshot. I compared it to Inception because that is who BW tried to copy as far as the speculation ending, I honestly believe BW made precautions to add conspiracy (i.e. The IT, Waking nightmare) by leaking their script and their brainstorming ideas. They tried to do it by softening our fall, when they never intended to make those the endings in the first place. People are looking for deeper meanings, trying to give BW more credit than they deserve. But oh well, thats for another thread.

As far as what you say about synthesis, i was aware of this, that's why i didnt pick synthesis. 

You're preaching to the choir.