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A reunion in my head just won't cut it!


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#301
comrade gando

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magnetite wrote...

I think the whole EC ending is a one time thing. They listened to what most people wanted, but unfortunately, they did say they cannot address absolutely everyone's concerns. Moat people were satisfied on how things turned out, even more so after the EC. Unfortunately, there are still a small number who were not.

Imagine trying to create an ending catered to every single person who plays the game with their wishes. Be it blue children, settling down on that beach front property on Rannoch, or any other of the millions of combinations of that. Just not feasible as they've said before.


most people were happy? what are you nuts? the reason why they even made EC is because of how many people hated the ending. EC made it better I'll give it that... but that's not saying much that's like saying the dump I took today is better than the dump I took last week. all the problems with the ending are still there, and if you ask me personally EC brought the endings from "god-awful" to just "bad". some people are ok with "bad". but I'm not one of those people.

#302
malakim2099

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chuckles471 wrote...

Your entitled.

You need everything spoon feed.

You are not smart enough.

You don't understand how fiction works.

Movies do this all the time.

Just move on.

Bioware doesn't make games just for you.

You are the reason that art is being dumbed down.

Use you imagination.

Whine some more.

Stop complaining they gave you the EC.

These are some of the things you will read in this topic. Just save you some time.;)


You forgot Artistic Integrity. :wizard:

#303
Guest_magnetite_*

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As to making endings to satisfy everyone:  well, isn't that the entire point of having multiple endings, so that there can be outcomes to satisfy lots of differnt people?
And for some reason, Biowoare decided Shepard had to die in every single one of them. :huh:


I don't know how many people who currently play Mass Effect 3, but like I said to create an indivual ending catered to what each one of those people want. Most games do not have millions of different endings, and it wouldn't be feasable for a developer to create an ending catered to every single person who plays this game (eg. millions of different variations in the endings).

Not every ending, Shepard lives in the Destroy ending if your EMS is high enough.

I still believe people should appreciate what they've been given though. A free DLC that Bioware didn't even make you pay for to clear up some of the issues that some people were having with the game.

most people were happy? what are you nuts? the reason why they even made
EC is because of how many people hated the ending. EC made it better
I'll give it that... but that's not saying much that's like saying the
dump I took today is better than the dump I took last week. all the
problems with the ending are still there, and if you ask me personally
EC brought the endings from "god-awful" to just "bad". some people are
ok with "bad". but I'm not one of those people.


Most of the vocal people, some don't even come on this board or use Facebook/Twitter to express how they feel.

Modifié par magnetite, 26 juillet 2012 - 03:59 .


#304
comrade gando

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no way I can know how everybody feels about ME3's ending, but if I was somebody who just played the trilogy and saw that ending... I'd be pissed.

#305
The Twilight God

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AlanC9 wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...
Destroy, even though the only logically sound ending, is the worst from a metagamming perspective.


It's the worst from any perspective. What you mean there is that Shep should pick Destroy based on the available information, even though it is a worse ending. But the outcome is worst without metagaming. It's just plain worst.

Except for Refuse, that is.

And your argument that Destroy needs more rewards to be competitive isn't very convincing, since Destroy seems to be quite popular anyway. If everyone was picking Control rather than Destroy you'd have a case.


First let's get one thing straight... Refusal is just an middle finger to us all. Not an ending.

People aren't picking destroy because it's better. Most people take the endings at face value. They pick it because of false "hope" that Shepard is alive or because it's what the plot demands. It is also proof that headcanon is not enough for alot of people. Because Control is easier to headcanon Shepard returning alive than Destroy. If Cerberus can make EDI's body surely with Reaper tech he can make something more lifelike and reunite via avatar. But people want to see something. And although it's not much, the breath scene makes it more appealing for alot of people even though it adds nothing tangible and gives no more than the other two. No matter what you choice Shepard is dead no matter what for all intents and purposes. From a player perspective Shepard ends in that catayst chamber the same as if he disintegrated. Out of curiousity, what maes you thin destroy is the most popular? Wehre did you get the info from?

Shepard has no reason to trust the Catalyst. Ergo, Control (what the Reapers were just trying to convince you of via TIM) and Synthesis (what soveriegn was trying to convince you of in ME1 via Saren) are presented as indoctrinated choices. Not the choice of a Shepard who is completely in control of himself. They basically are the reapers asking you to kill yourself to further THEIR agenda. With nothing but their word to go on. Notice how in those last 10 minutes the plot goes from "stop the reapers" to "let's help the reaper's with their social studies homework"?

As far as I'm concerned the control and synthesis endings must be delusions. One is narrated by an reaper influenced EDI anf the other by the warped mind of Shepard, broken by the reaper megaconsciousness, seeing the cycle as "helping" and "looking out for everyone" but in reality his help is harvesting organics. Basically, both endings are indoctrinated propaganda and in actuality Destroy is the only win ending. The last boss is indoctrination. You have to beat it. That is why Destory is made out to SEEM worse than the others.

But if people take them at face value then sure, Control and Synthesis are better endings. The only good thing abot refusal is that it proves the Catalyst was lying when it says 1. ) It's current solution won't work anymore and 2. synthesis is inevitable and 3.) it's not expecting the Crucible. The very design of his chambers proves he was expecting the Crucible. If the idea on control or synthesis just appeared minutes ago why is there a preset walkway and consoles for each. Why is there a Crucible suppression device keeping it from working that you have to destroy to activate the Crucible for Destroy ending?  Obviously, if either 1 or 2 were true refusal could not occur as the reapers would have to simply retreat and wait for synthesis to occur naturally. It even ceases all pretense and reverts back to Harbinger's voice. Hell, if you tell it there must be a way to win without using the citadel it says right then and there that you can't win and if you don;t they'll keep harvesting. The Catalyst

#306
SuperMegaWolf

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Why does there have to be a reunion? You can't handle a melancholy ending?

#307
The Twilight God

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SuperMegaWolf wrote...

Why does there have to be a reunion? You can't handle a melancholy ending?


Obviously. Thats the whole point of the thread.

#308
Fauxnormal

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The Twilight God wrote...

SuperMegaWolf wrote...

Why does there have to be a reunion? You can't handle a melancholy ending?


Obviously. Thats the whole point of the thread.


Well that's shallow.

#309
SuperMegaWolf

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The Twilight God wrote...

SuperMegaWolf wrote...

Why does there have to be a reunion? You can't handle a melancholy ending?


Obviously. Thats the whole point of the thread.


If that's the only qualm you have with the ending you should be content. The ending was terrible but a well done "sad" ending would be infinitely better. May I suggest you read some good literature: As I Lay Dying, 1984, Of Mice and Men, The Pearl. These are just a few but I believe they will help you be more mature in your tastes.

#310
AresKeith

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SuperMegaWolf wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

SuperMegaWolf wrote...

Why does there have to be a reunion? You can't handle a melancholy ending?


Obviously. Thats the whole point of the thread.


If that's the only qualm you have with the ending you should be content. The ending was terrible but a well done "sad" ending would be infinitely better. May I suggest you read some good literature: As I Lay Dying, 1984, Of Mice and Men, The Pearl. These are just a few but I believe they will help you be more mature in your tastes.


since when is a happy or bittersweet ending immature in a Video Game? Thats like saying " oh blood in a video game is too much"

#311
Jadebaby

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Taboo-XX wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

I hate to say it, but this is like having unsatisfying sex.


Sex is like pizza. Even when it's bad it's pretty good.


I'd say it's more like having non-consenual sex. You know where it's leading and no matter what you do, say, think or feel. It's not going to change anything. Well, at least on replay playthroughs... Which is why I don't play it.

So what kind of sex is it if the pizza gives you food poisoning? haha

Modifié par Jade8aby88, 26 juillet 2012 - 04:20 .


#312
SuperMegaWolf

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AresKeith wrote...

SuperMegaWolf wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

SuperMegaWolf wrote...

Why does there have to be a reunion? You can't handle a melancholy ending?


Obviously. Thats the whole point of the thread.


If that's the only qualm you have with the ending you should be content. The ending was terrible but a well done "sad" ending would be infinitely better. May I suggest you read some good literature: As I Lay Dying, 1984, Of Mice and Men, The Pearl. These are just a few but I believe they will help you be more mature in your tastes.


since when is a happy or bittersweet ending immature in a Video Game? Thats like saying " oh blood in a video game is too much"


I didn't say I certian type of ending is immature. I am saying that complaining because an ending isn't happy is immature.

#313
comrade gando

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Jade8aby88 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

I hate to say it, but this is like having unsatisfying sex.


Sex is like pizza. Even when it's bad it's pretty good.


I'd say it's more like having non-consenual sex. You know where it's leading and no matter what you do, say, think or feel. It's not going to change anything. Well, at least on replay playthroughs... Which is why I don't play it.

So what kind of sex is it if the pizza gives you food poisoning? haha


actually I felt raped when i first beat this game. no joke this is how it went down: I just beat the game, picked control first time around (because confused as ****), saw the ending... turned off the game and started checking my mail for some reason at 4:30 in the morning... 5 minutes later I look back at my black tv screen and then it all just registered how ****ty the ending was "WHAT THE ****?!" so began the 4 1/2 month obsession.

#314
AresKeith

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SuperMegaWolf wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

SuperMegaWolf wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

SuperMegaWolf wrote...

Why does there have to be a reunion? You can't handle a melancholy ending?


Obviously. Thats the whole point of the thread.


If that's the only qualm you have with the ending you should be content. The ending was terrible but a well done "sad" ending would be infinitely better. May I suggest you read some good literature: As I Lay Dying, 1984, Of Mice and Men, The Pearl. These are just a few but I believe they will help you be more mature in your tastes.


since when is a happy or bittersweet ending immature in a Video Game? Thats like saying " oh blood in a video game is too much"


I didn't say I certian type of ending is immature. I am saying that complaining because an ending isn't happy is immature.


there upset because Bioware did a cliffhanger ending in the Destroy option for no reason what so ever, and they can't kill Shepard in all endings because that can hurt DLC sales and before and after the EC Bioware hinted at everyone that there will be a reunion with your LI and yet they want to be lazy and make you headcanon, you don't do that in Video Games.

#315
SuperMegaWolf

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AresKeith wrote...

SuperMegaWolf wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

SuperMegaWolf wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

SuperMegaWolf wrote...

Why does there have to be a reunion? You can't handle a melancholy ending?


Obviously. Thats the whole point of the thread.


If that's the only qualm you have with the ending you should be content. The ending was terrible but a well done "sad" ending would be infinitely better. May I suggest you read some good literature: As I Lay Dying, 1984, Of Mice and Men, The Pearl. These are just a few but I believe they will help you be more mature in your tastes.


since when is a happy or bittersweet ending immature in a Video Game? Thats like saying " oh blood in a video game is too much"


I didn't say I certian type of ending is immature. I am saying that complaining because an ending isn't happy is immature.


there upset because Bioware did a cliffhanger ending in the Destroy option for no reason what so ever, and they can't kill Shepard in all endings because that can hurt DLC sales and before and after the EC Bioware hinted at everyone that there will be a reunion with your LI and yet they want to be lazy and make you headcanon, you don't do that in Video Games.


I guess I just don't see why people are complaining about this one minute part of the ending amidst the plethora of of things that were hinted at or confirmed that never came to fruition in the third game. You guys are up in arms about love interest when the entire ending was a terribly executed deus ex machina, which is generally considered a lazy story telling device in the first place.

-When I say "deus ex machina" I mean the latin term that translates to "god from the machine". A plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved
with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event,
character, ability, or object. Not the deus ex game.

#316
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comrade gando wrote...

no way I can know how everybody feels about ME3's ending, but if I was somebody who just played the trilogy and saw that ending... I'd be pissed.


Not everyone expressed how they feel about it, so it's hard to get an actual number.

Modifié par magnetite, 26 juillet 2012 - 04:54 .


#317
AresKeith

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SuperMegaWolf wrote...


I guess I just don't see why people are complaining about this one minute part of the ending amidst the plethora of of things that were hinted at or confirmed that never came to fruition in the third game. You guys are up in arms about love interest when the entire ending was a terribly executed deus ex machina, which is generally considered a lazy story telling device in the first place.

-When I say "deus ex machina" I mean the latin term that translates to "god from the machine". A plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved
with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event,
character, ability, or object. Not the deus ex game.


I know what you mean, I still want that Starbrat gone and for the Crucible to be what is was really intended to be.

but the reunion thing is basically part of the problem with the ending after the EC, but the endings were taken from the Deus Ex game

#318
Iakus

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magnetite wrote...


As to making endings to satisfy everyone:  well, isn't that the entire point of having multiple endings, so that there can be outcomes to satisfy lots of differnt people?
And for some reason, Biowoare decided Shepard had to die in every single one of them. :huh:


I don't know how many people who currently play Mass Effect 3, but like I said to create an indivual ending catered to what each one of those people want. Most games do not have millions of different endings, and it wouldn't be feasable for a developer to create an ending catered to every single person who plays this game (eg. millions of different variations in the endings).


Each ending doesn't have to be totally unique to the player, but there should have been a broad cross-section of possible fates for Shepard as a result of his/her actions.  Including endings where Shepard lived

Not every ending, Shepard lives in the Destroy ending if your EMS is high enough.


As of EC we have seven endings where Shepard dies, and one tossed in as an afterthought where Shepard might suvive, but was deliberately left ambiguous.  

So, yeah.  There's technically an ending where Shepard "survives"  But that's like saying Kurt Russell and Keith David (speaking of Anderon) "survived" in The Thing... 

I still believe people should appreciate what they've been given though. A free DLC that Bioware didn't even make you pay for to clear up some of the issues that some people were having with the game.


hey, it's nice that they did it, and it helped some.  But it wasn't nearly enough.  I can only be so appreciative of a game that has zero replay value for me.  And hurts the replay value of its predecessors.

#319
Iakus

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AresKeith wrote...

I know what you mean, I still want that Starbrat gone and for the Crucible to be what is was really intended to be.

but the reunion thing is basically part of the problem with the ending after the EC, but the endings were taken from the Deus Ex game


I've made my peace with thte fact that ME3's ending will never make sense.

But if there could just be a happy alternative, I can at least play it as an action game...

#320
AresKeith

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iakus wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

I know what you mean, I still want that Starbrat gone and for the Crucible to be what is was really intended to be.

but the reunion thing is basically part of the problem with the ending after the EC, but the endings were taken from the Deus Ex game


I've made my peace with thte fact that ME3's ending will never make sense.

But if there could just be a happy alternative, I can at least play it as an action game...


that was something else that annoyed me, they turned ME into generic 3rd person shooter, I grateful from them improving the combat system, but ME was mainly an RPG over a shooter

#321
Kel Riever

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Does move on mean don't buy anymore BioWare stuff? I mean, I want to, but if they are telling me otherwise, maybe I should listen...:D

#322
sH0tgUn jUliA

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comrade gando wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

I hate to say it, but this is like having unsatisfying sex.


Sex is like pizza. Even when it's bad it's pretty good.


I'd say it's more like having non-consenual sex. You know where it's leading and no matter what you do, say, think or feel. It's not going to change anything. Well, at least on replay playthroughs... Which is why I don't play it.

So what kind of sex is it if the pizza gives you food poisoning? haha


actually I felt raped when i first beat this game. no joke this is how it went down: I just beat the game, picked control first time around (because confused as ****), saw the ending... turned off the game and started checking my mail for some reason at 4:30 in the morning... 5 minutes later I look back at my black tv screen and then it all just registered how ****ty the ending was "WHAT THE ****?!" so began the 4 1/2 month obsession.


Fascinating. In other words, you felt violated. I felt violated. I threw in the sex comment above just to bring this out. I called it something else, but no one wanted to touch it with a 10' pole. It gets too deep into the psychological end of things which is uncomfortable. Sometimes when one looks at stuff one looks in the wrong places.

When one starts the game one can still be play acting the role of Shepard as carried over from the previous parts of the story. One can do this through Tuchanka and Rannoch pretty much with ease. However, in most cases people really stop the role playing as the story progresses and due to the emotional effect of the horrors of the war stop role playing as much and start making the choices they themselves would make. This is key, and this especially happens on the first playthrough.

As one continues to do this, Shepard and the player begin to merge. By the time one finishes Sanctuary and launches Cronos, there is little of the classic role playing taking place. The player is no longer play acting. The player for all practical purposes is Shepard.

This opens the door for psychologically breaking the player. If the process fails (Destroy), you make the player commit genocide and leave the galaxy in a 10,000 year dark age as the price (the rebuilt Citadel is supposed to be 300-500 yrs in the future now?), or the reaping continues, and the player is punished with no closure to the game especially if they worked hard enough to get enough resources to unlock both Control and Synthesis. If the process succeeds the player will choose Synthesis. If it sort of succeeds the player will choose Control. For being broken, the player is rewarded with closure.

The indoctrination isn't being done on Shepard. It is being done to the player. Perhaps this is why BW will to this date neither confirm nor deny indoctrination theory?

It's actually quite brilliant, yet I detest it because this is a video game, not a book or a movie. Why do I detest it? There should have been a secret reward for not being indoctrinated, like a reunion cutscene after the Stargazer scene with a secret achievement, and I don't think the Geth or EDI should have been hit in the Destroy ending. I think that should have been part of this indoctrination, however they made you commit genocide anyway. Then they could have had their "Shepard has become a legend. Buy DLC" screen. That I could have lived with. This is just my opinion. I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 26 juillet 2012 - 06:25 .


#323
chemiclord

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If you honestly feel RAPED by a video game... you have some SERIOUS priority issues to sort out.

No game, or ANY expression of art, should be able hurt you that profoundly.  I'm sorry... if it does, you need help.

Modifié par chemiclord, 26 juillet 2012 - 06:31 .


#324
comrade gando

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sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

comrade gando wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

I hate to say it, but this is like having unsatisfying sex.


Sex is like pizza. Even when it's bad it's pretty good.


I'd say it's more like having non-consenual sex. You know where it's leading and no matter what you do, say, think or feel. It's not going to change anything. Well, at least on replay playthroughs... Which is why I don't play it.

So what kind of sex is it if the pizza gives you food poisoning? haha


actually I felt raped when i first beat this game. no joke this is how it went down: I just beat the game, picked control first time around (because confused as ****), saw the ending... turned off the game and started checking my mail for some reason at 4:30 in the morning... 5 minutes later I look back at my black tv screen and then it all just registered how ****ty the ending was "WHAT THE ****?!" so began the 4 1/2 month obsession.


Fascinating. In other words, you felt violated. I felt violated. I threw in the sex comment above just to bring this out. I called it something else, but no one wanted to touch it with a 10' pole. It gets too deep into the psychological end of things which is uncomfortable. Sometimes when one looks at stuff one looks in the wrong places.

When one starts the game one can still be play acting the role of Shepard as carried over from the previous parts of the story. One can do this through Tuchanka and Rannoch pretty much with ease. However, in most cases people really stop the role playing as the story progresses and due to the emotional effect of the horrors of the war stop role playing as much and start making the choices they themselves would make. This is key, and this especially happens on the first playthrough.

As one continues to do this, Shepard and the player begin to merge. By the time one finishes Sanctuary and launches Cronos, there is little of the classic role playing taking place. The player is no longer play acting. The player for all practical purposes is Shepard.

This opens the door for psychologically breaking the player. If the process fails (Destroy), you make the player commit genocide and leave the galaxy in a 10,000 year dark age as the price (the rebuilt Citadel is supposed to be 300-500 yrs in the future now?), or the reaping continues, and the player is punished with no closure to the game especially if they worked hard enough to get enough resources to unlock both Control and Synthesis. If the process succeeds the player will choose Synthesis. If it sort of succeeds the player will choose Control. For being broken, the player is rewarded with closure.

The indoctrination isn't being done on Shepard. It is being done to the player. Perhaps this is why BW will to this date neither confirm nor deny indoctrination theory?

It's actually quite brilliant, yet I detest it because this is a video game, not a book or a movie. Why do I detest it? There should have been a secret reward for not being indoctrinated, like a reunion cutscene after the Stargazer scene with a secret achievement, and I don't think the Geth or EDI should have been hit in the Destroy ending. I think that should have been part of this indoctrination, however they made you commit genocide anyway. Then they could have had their "Shepard has become a legend. Buy DLC" screen. That I could have lived with. This is just my opinion. I could be wrong, but I doubt it.



exactly, I WAS commander shepard. this game felt like a break from myself, I actually felt like I was somebody else entirely over the course of the few days it took me to beat this game. I was going to go out, save the galaxy one last time, defeat the reapers, end the cycle and get to rannoch where I can finally give somebody a home I promised them. Make a speech about "the lost don't have to be alone" or something, and walk out of my room smiling the rest of the day. It was like a trance, those last 15 minutes I mean, was sad that anderson died but something just kept nagging in the back of my mind that something wasn't right about this whole thing, like something was watching my shepard's every move it felt like. then by the time the catalyst jumps out and start spouting insanity and giving me 3 colors to pick from, I just kinda vegged out at this point, and picked control because it was blue and blue is good right? right?! well idk. I certainly wouldn't call any of the choices "good", and even the destroy ending with high EMS (supposedly the best) the price is just far too high, the collateral damage is rediculous and shepard and his crew's fate remains vague at best, which is quickly followed by a very confusing and nonsensical starchild with space grandpa telling stories about shepard.

wtf happened to this game, they almost had it, then they just shat themselves.

#325
AresKeith

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chemiclord wrote...

If you honestly feel RAPED by a video game... you have some SERIOUS priority issues to sort out.

No game, or ANY expression of art, should be able hurt you that profoundly.  I'm sorry... if it does, you need help.


and you need to learn what an expression is