348 réponses à ce sujet

[chemiclord]

There are plenty of better expressions to use than to invoke one of the most psychologically devastating crimes that can be done to be a person.

It goes beyond hyperbole and into absurd.

[comrade gando]

chemiclord wrote...

If you honestly feel RAPED by a video game... you have some SERIOUS priority issues to sort out.

No game, or ANY expression of art, should be able hurt you that profoundly.  I'm sorry... if it does, you need help.

since when were games art anyway

[chemiclord]

It makes your statement even more disgusting if you think you were raped by a commercial product. At least art is intended to invoke a strong emotion.

I'd stick with art if you just want to look like a major tool and not a total one.

Modifié par chemiclord, 26 juillet 2012 - 06:43 .

[AresKeith]

maybe people need to stop trying to call Video Games art and call it a video game, the only thing thats art is the Graphics ok

[Wu the Lotus Blossom]

3DandBeyond wrote...

RoboticWays wrote...


I myself, Hate the ending. But i dont see a real reason to make thread after thread about it. Sure, we feel cheated, but for what good is it going to do, to sit around talking about how we were cheated? EC was the end, That's all they're doing to the it, that's the farthest it's getting tweaked. So if you wanted more variables added to give everybody the happy ending they wanted, you're asking a lemon tree for apples. ME deserved a better ending. But BW isnt giving it one. The closest thing you can get, is a Reunion DLC for those with high EMS, but even that is a longshot. I compared it to Inception because that is who BW tried to copy as far as the speculation ending, I honestly believe BW made precautions to add conspiracy (i.e. The IT, Waking nightmare) by leaking their script and their brainstorming ideas. They tried to do it by softening our fall, when they never intended to make those the endings in the first place. People are looking for deeper meanings, trying to give BW more credit than they deserve. But oh well, thats for another thread.

As far as what you say about synthesis, i was aware of this, that's why i didnt pick synthesis. 

You're preaching to the choir.

I do agree with you, but it's my only point is to put it in context.  A reunion DLC has to be attached to something because Bioware doesn't even think it deserves any attention whatsoever.  I'll explain.  I saw pre-EC questions on twitter to J Merizan asking if there'd be a reunion in the EC.  You and I know what that means, what the person wanted to know.  JM said yes there would be.  This has since been deleted.  I saw it.  People got the EC, coudn't find a reunion and wondered if this was similar to the original MP for SP debacle in order to get high enough EMS, so they asked her about it-how to get it.  She said it wasn't in the game.  People said she said it was.  She said that it was there, Shepard's alive and clearly a reunion happened as it's implied.  Then, other devs said it wasn't there because they didn't know people wanted one-ok you had to be dead not to know this.  Then, JM said there was no reunion in the game because everyone would want something different.  Other devs started saying they didn't do one because they couldn't personalize one for everyone.  They then started saying they purposely made it ambiguous.  Speculation for everyone.   On twitter.  Never here.  Twitter.

Next came comic con-on a panel one dev said the gasp scene was a beacon of hope.  And in the same panel Chris Hepler said the kid at the beginning of the game was there so Shepard knew what s/he was fighting for.  Ok, full blown idiot mode.  He also said events in the slides take place in the future, some 200-300 years and it was great to see what happened to the Krogan.  We needed a lot of closure for the Krogan, apparently.  He also said the gasp scene was Shepard's dying gasp.

So, I asked about this on twitter and said people wanted a reunion and this has hurt them.  I was told there was no interest in discussing it further and if I didn't  like it to move on.  I don't twitter much and only went there to ask why one dev said it was a sign of hope and another said Shepard's dead.

I do have the twitter post and it's on its way to a friend who may or may not be of some help with this.   Corporate owners of companies don't like their customers being told to F off.

I fully support efforts to get them to release more DLC.  Some have contacted Mike Gamble to ask about this and others have gone right to EA with complaints.

I think this is the best attitude. We have to stick together and make our point clear. What you said about having to be dead to not realize that people wanted a reunion is spot on. They're mocking the fans that helped them get where they are. I wonder how arrogant they'll be when they start losing a lot of fans and money.

[Wu the Lotus Blossom]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

YES!! You are SOO ****ing right OP!

Why would they even put all that crap in there about seeing each other again, when we'd already played the original ending and new what the **** was coming!?

Sorry about the language, but if there's one part of the ending that pisses me off the most, it's this!

Don't worry about the language, it's completely warranted. How are we supposed to be excited about a new playthrough when we know that crap is coming no matter what?

[Wu the Lotus Blossom]

RoboticWays wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

RoboticWays wrote...


I myself, Hate the ending. But i dont see a real reason to make thread after thread about it. Sure, we feel cheated, but for what good is it going to do, to sit around talking about how we were cheated? EC was the end, That's all they're doing to the it, that's the farthest it's getting tweaked. So if you wanted more variables added to give everybody the happy ending they wanted, you're asking a lemon tree for apples. ME deserved a better ending. But BW isnt giving it one. The closest thing you can get, is a Reunion DLC for those with high EMS, but even that is a longshot. I compared it to Inception because that is who BW tried to copy as far as the speculation ending, I honestly believe BW made precautions to add conspiracy (i.e. The IT, Waking nightmare) by leaking their script and their brainstorming ideas. They tried to do it by softening our fall, when they never intended to make those the endings in the first place. People are looking for deeper meanings, trying to give BW more credit than they deserve. But oh well, thats for another thread.

As far as what you say about synthesis, i was aware of this, that's why i didnt pick synthesis. 

You're preaching to the choir.

I do agree with you, but it's my only point is to put it in context.  A reunion DLC has to be attached to something because Bioware doesn't even think it deserves any attention whatsoever.  I'll explain.  I saw pre-EC questions on twitter to J Merizan asking if there'd be a reunion in the EC.  You and I know what that means, what the person wanted to know.  JM said yes there would be.  This has since been deleted.  I saw it.  People got the EC, coudn't find a reunion and wondered if this was similar to the original MP for SP debacle in order to get high enough EMS, so they asked her about it-how to get it.  She said it wasn't in the game.  People said she said it was.  She said that it was there, Shepard's alive and clearly a reunion happened as it's implied.  Then, other devs said it wasn't there because they didn't know people wanted one-ok you had to be dead not to know this.  Then, JM said there was no reunion in the game because everyone would want something different.  Other devs started saying they didn't do one because they couldn't personalize one for everyone.  They then started saying they purposely made it ambiguous.  Speculation for everyone.   On twitter.  Never here.  Twitter.

Next came comic con-on a panel one dev said the gasp scene was a beacon of hope.  And in the same panel Chris Hepler said the kid at the beginning of the game was there so Shepard knew what s/he was fighting for.  Ok, full blown idiot mode.  He also said events in the slides take place in the future, some 200-300 years and it was great to see what happened to the Krogan.  We needed a lot of closure for the Krogan, apparently.  He also said the gasp scene was Shepard's dying gasp.

So, I asked about this on twitter and said people wanted a reunion and this has hurt them.  I was told there was no interest in discussing it further and if I didn't  like it to move on.  I don't twitter much and only went there to ask why one dev said it was a sign of hope and another said Shepard's dead.

I do have the twitter post and it's on its way to a friend who may or may not be of some help with this.   Corporate owners of companies don't like their customers being told to F off.

I fully support efforts to get them to release more DLC.  Some have contacted Mike Gamble to ask about this and others have gone right to EA with complaints.

If you watched the panel, when they said that maybe Shepard died, they said so in a joking manner. They said they wanted to add a little extra hope to those who scoured the citadel for assets and did every fetch mission. It's up to us to interpret. BW doesnt want to put more time and effort, they got tired with Shep's story. It's a sad truth. but thats what it has come down to, No more Commander Shepard. As far as what happened to you on twitter.. damn.

That's what pisses me off the most. Couldn't they keep it together just to get through the ending and THEN be done with Shepard? If I got tired of my tasks at work halfway through or just before finishing them the consequences wouldn't be good. Why do they get to do their job poorly with NO consequences?

[Wu the Lotus Blossom]

comrade gando wrote...

Auckmid wrote...

Inception is the only movie/video game I can realy think of which has a great ending which is meant to have a lot of speculating. All other games/movies which don't give you a complete ending that wraps up all loose ends tend to realy not be so great. ME3 is no exception.

for me what makes this speculative ending especially terrible is the fact that I was in complete control of my character for the entire series, and shepard's done so much badass stuff and pulled off the impossible, and keep in mind this is the entire trilogy he's doing stuff like this. then come the last 10 minutes he totally falls apart at the seams and just accepts the insane contradictions of a totally random and unexplained ghost child with the power to alter the laws of physics and reality with no explanation (magic anyone?). Then I get the most anticlimactic ending imaginable with no boss fight, no badass plot twist, no epic finale, no nothing. only confusion on top of more confusion, finished off with a nice cup of confusion.

then a dev says to "move on". in other words I know it sucks kiss my ass.

Yeah, that's just the thing! Even when Shepard says goodbye to his/her LI and friends, he/she is SO confident that everything will turn out ok, like it should have, like the entire frickin' game indicated all along! You just don't see it coming! Unless you've read spoilers beforehand, I guess...

[Wu the Lotus Blossom]

iakus wrote...

TheHoneyRuns wrote...

And in fact, she(?) did not. I believe she has the right of it.

Also, yes, her posts are quite articulate. I certainly didn't mean to suggest that she tweeted "Change the ending or discover what your children's feet taste like, c***jugglers!!!" ...or, you know, anything along those lines.

Oh, I understand.  Just expressing shock that anyone would say that.

Well, not "anyone", there's plenty of folks on the BSN who'd say that just to because they can.  But a developer expressing such contempt for a player...

There's one word that can explain such a rotten attitude: ARROGANCE. We're partly to blame, because we've fed it with our money, with our appreciation (when they still deserved it) and with our acceptance when they screwed up (sales for BW games were still high after the DA2 disaster, so they didn't take it seriously). And now they can't see past it anymore. They think we'll take whatever crap they throw at us. Harsh, perhaps, but that's what I think.

[Wu the Lotus Blossom]

comrade gando wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

I hate to say it, but this is like having unsatisfying sex.

Sex is like pizza. Even when it's bad it's pretty good.

I'd say it's more like having non-consenual sex. You know where it's leading and no matter what you do, say, think or feel. It's not going to change anything. Well, at least on replay playthroughs... Which is why I don't play it.

So what kind of sex is it if the pizza gives you food poisoning? haha

actually I felt raped when i first beat this game. no joke this is how it went down: I just beat the game, picked control first time around (because confused as ****), saw the ending... turned off the game and started checking my mail for some reason at 4:30 in the morning... 5 minutes later I look back at my black tv screen and then it all just registered how ****ty the ending was "WHAT THE ****?!" so began the 4 1/2 month obsession.

I went through the same thing, but it took me a little longer to process it. I was just numb for a while and then I realized what a piece of crap the ending was. Later I became pissed and here I am.

[Wu the Lotus Blossom]

SuperMegaWolf wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

SuperMegaWolf wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

SuperMegaWolf wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

SuperMegaWolf wrote...

Why does there have to be a reunion? You can't handle a melancholy ending?

Obviously. Thats the whole point of the thread.

If that's the only qualm you have with the ending you should be content. The ending was terrible but a well done "sad" ending would be infinitely better. May I suggest you read some good literature: As I Lay Dying, 1984, Of Mice and Men, The Pearl. These are just a few but I believe they will help you be more mature in your tastes.

since when is a happy or bittersweet ending immature in a Video Game? Thats like saying " oh blood in a video game is too much"

I didn't say I certian type of ending is immature. I am saying that complaining because an ending isn't happy is immature.

there upset because Bioware did a cliffhanger ending in the Destroy option for no reason what so ever, and they can't kill Shepard in all endings because that can hurt DLC sales and before and after the EC Bioware hinted at everyone that there will be a reunion with your LI and yet they want to be lazy and make you headcanon, you don't do that in Video Games.

I guess I just don't see why people are complaining about this one minute part of the ending amidst the plethora of of things that were hinted at or confirmed that never came to fruition in the third game. You guys are up in arms about love interest when the entire ending was a terribly executed deus ex machina, which is generally considered a lazy story telling device in the first place.

-When I say "deus ex machina" I mean the latin term that translates to "god from the machine". A plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved
with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event,
character, ability, or object. Not the deus ex game.

It's not that we don't realize the whole ending is a joke and renders all the lore, choices and actions completely irrelevant. We're just saying we'd be ok if at least the Shepard lives and gets reunited with everyone part would work out.

[SpamBot2000]

chemiclord wrote...

There are plenty of better expressions to use than to invoke one of the most psychologically devastating crimes that can be done to be a person.

It goes beyond hyperbole and into absurd.

Indeed.

[dsl08002]

a reunion would be perfect in my opinion

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

chemiclord wrote...

If you honestly feel RAPED by a video game... you have some SERIOUS priority issues to sort out.

No game, or ANY expression of art, should be able hurt you that profoundly.  I'm sorry... if it does, you need help.

I looked at what that poster said as more of a mind rape. It was a violation nonetheless.

Now here's what makes this a violation. It was the pre-game expectations. It was the pre-game hype and build up as to what we were going to experience vs. what we actually experienced. They were two different things. The way it was built up we were expecting from the hype and reviews was a heroic but bittersweet ending to the series. What we received was a beat down. Those are two entirely different things.

Had the game been advertised as "experience Shepard being beaten down and leave the galaxy a wasteland" that would have been different. However, I don't think very many people would have bought the game, and I think why the hype was so high was to bury that Walter's interview.

[Batnat]

magnetite wrote...

Most of the vocal people, some don't even come on this board or use Facebook/Twitter to express how they feel.

Yeah, like me for example. I´m not an active participant on the forums, but I do browse through them from time to time. This is actually my first post ever...so please forgive any formatting mistakes...or gramatical errors (english isn´t my native language).

So, I´m one of the "silent" gamers...one of those, that people who liked the endings, often (read: NOT "always"
or "everyone") like to refer to as the non-vocal majority who probably have nothing to complain about.

Well...in MY case the reasons for my active inactivity happens to be the fact, that I´m a bit of a misanthropic creature who unfortunately is part of the human species and  not too fond of interacting with others of its kind. But today I decided to go against my nature and be vocal...yay me!...my shrink will be proud.  <_<

Ok, this seems to become a wall of text, please excuse that, and let´s get to the topic at hand:

I LOVE Mass Effect...probably more than is considered healthy. If anybody wants to tell me to "get a life" don´t
bother, I do HAVE a life and I don´t care for it much! If you find that sad, so be it, I don´t! Since a friend of mine introduced me to the ME Universe and therefore to gaming in general about 2 years ago I can endure my life just fine and, to get really overly dramatic, it probably saved my life too. 

I really really enjoyed ME3, despite quite a bit of unfortunate "artistic" or whatever happenings (lame intro, auto-dialogue, inconsistencies, etc)...I even accepted the VERY poorly handled concept of the crucible (don´t even get me started! ).
All of that I could ignore...but the ending(s)...no, just NO! I don´t really want to get into that, because then this post will never see it´s end. Suffice to say I wasn´t impressed, yes the EC made it bearable enough so I can still enjoy the franchise and import all of my 20 or so Sheps. But bearable isn´t what I expected, not at all!

I have two friends who also played the game and DO NOT participate in these forums (partly because they don´t understand english that well and mostly because they´re not die hard enough fans to care about forum interaction). Both also DID NOT like the ending(s)! If that is any indication of how the "silent" gamers feel, well, I think it speaks volumes, and the existence of the EC proves that BiowEAre obviously came to the same conclusions. 

I´m not saying the endings as they now stand should be changed or erased...I do actually quite like the differences post-EC and enjoy reading the more intellectual and philosophical discussions about all the implications they provide (and on the other hand loathe those people who have nothing better to do than accuse others of "whining" and "nitpicking" and what not instead of ignoring threads and posts that they have no valuable input to)...I´m quite sure these speculations are exactly what Bioware wants! Also, it proves to me, that I´m not the only one immersing myself so deeply into this (unfortunately) fictional world.

Long story short(er): OP, I agree!

Even though I find the given choices interesting and thought-provoking (the choices/outcomes themselves! Not so much the appearance of the lying ghostly Bioware-rEAper-lovechild ...and did I mention this is NOT one of the little blue babies I had envisioned!), I do wish for ONE "happy" (reunion) ending. Call me entitled if you must.

I don´t really give a crap anymore if it´s an additional scene for the destroy ending or an elaborate (conventional or unconventional) victory outcome of refusal...of course I´d prefer the latter...but I´m at a point where I´d be really really happy with something akin to ME1/2 like many have already described in this thread. And NO, that doesn´t mean I need to see blue babies or Tali´s house on Rannoch or a wedding ceremony, etc. I´d be quite satisfied with a last shot of the surviving crew/friends including Shep with his/her LI in their arms.

And anybody who objects to that OPTION beeing in the game...well, I guess you and I played different games and have a fundamentally different point of view on RPGs! And YES, I´m quite aware of the fact that ME is partly a TPS, and I don´t give a F***! If Bioware over and over states Shepard´s story is MINE, than I do want the different OPTIONS to shape his/her END...and that doesn´t mean death or near death in all outcomes...I haven´t created almost two dozens of different Sheps to have them all die and not have just ONE of them have their deserved happy sendoff (happy being a relative term, seeing as the galaxy doesn´t come out unscathed and Shep DID lose friends during the war!)!!! Sorry for those of you who can´t get that into your thick sculls and think melancholy endings are the be all and end all of Shep´s journey. I envy you and I´m happy you got what you hoped for (no sarcasm), I would just like the same courtesy in return.  

Hmpf...that was WAY more, than I planned to say.
Well, If you stuck with me this far, I guess thank you for your patience and interest. Let´s hope that those of us who are still not completely happy with the end to "our" story will have a reason to smile again, at least after the last SP-DLC is out......ok, back to lurking... 


EDIT: Formatting...

Modifié par Batnat, 26 juillet 2012 - 10:43 .

[Delaney]

Batnat wrote...

magnetite wrote...

Most of the vocal people, some don't even come on this board or use Facebook/Twitter to express how they feel.

Yeah, like me for example. I´m not an active participant on the forums, but I do browse through them from time to time. This is actually my first post ever...so please forgive any formatting mistakes...or gramatical errors (english isn´t my native language).

So, I´m one of the "silent" gamers...one of those, that people who liked the endings, often (read: NOT "always"
or "everyone") like to refer to as the non-vocal majority who probably have nothing to complain about.

Well...in MY case the reasons for my active inactivity happens to be the fact, that I´m a bit of a misanthropic creature who unfortunately is part of the human species and  not too fond of interacting with others of its kind. But today I decided to go against my nature and be vocal...yay me!...my shrink will be proud.  <_<

Ok, this seems to become a wall of text, please excuse that, and let´s get to the topic at hand:

I LOVE Mass Effect...probably more than is considered healthy. If anybody wants to tell me to "get a life" don´t
bother, I do HAVE a life and I don´t care for it much! If you find that sad, so be it, I don´t! Since a friend of mine introduced me to the ME Universe and therefore to gaming in general about 2 years ago I can endure my life just fine and, to get really overly dramatic, it probably saved my life too. 

I really really enjoyed ME3, despite quite a bit of unfortunate "artistic" or whatever happenings (lame intro, auto-dialogue, inconsistencies, etc)...I even accepted the VERY poorly handled concept of the crucible (don´t even get me started! ).
All of that I could ignore...but the ending(s)...no, just NO! I don´t really want to get into that, because then this post will never see it´s end. Suffice to say I wasn´t impressed, yes the EC made it bearable enough so I can still enjoy the franchise and import all of my 20 or so Sheps. But bearable isn´t what I expected, not at all!

I have two friends who also played the game and DO NOT participate in these forums (partly because they don´t understand english that well and mostly because they´re not die hard enough fans to care about forum interaction). Both also DID NOT like the ending(s)! If that is any indication of how the "silent" gamers feel, well, I think it speaks volumes, and the existence of the EC proves that BiowEAre obviously came to the same conclusions. 

I´m not saying the endings as they now stand should be changed or erased...I do actually quite like the differences post-EC and enjoy reading the more intellectual and philosophical discussions about all the implications they provide (and on the other hand loathe those people who have nothing better to do than accuse others of "whining" and "nitpicking" and what not instead of ignoring threads and posts that they have no valuable input to)...I´m quite sure these speculations are exactly what Bioware wants! Also, it proves to me, that I´m not the only one immersing myself so deeply into this (unfortunately) fictional world.

Long story short(er): OP, I agree!

Even though I find the given choices interesting and thought-provoking (the choices/outcomes themselves! Not so much the appearance of the lying ghostly Bioware-rEAper-lovechild ...and did I mention this is NOT one of the little blue babies I had envisioned!), I do wish for ONE "happy" (reunion) ending. Call me entitled if you must.

I don´t really give a crap anymore if it´s an additional scene for the destroy ending or an elaborate (conventional or unconventional) victory outcome of refusal...of course I´d prefer the latter...but I´m at a point where I´d be really really happy with something akin to ME1/2 like many have already described in this thread. And NO, that doesn´t mean I need to see blue babies or Tali´s house on Rannoch or a wedding ceremony, etc. I´d be quite satisfied with a last shot of the surviving crew/friends including Shep with his/her LI in their arms.

And anybody who objects to that OPTION beeing in the game...well, I guess you and I played different games and have a fundamentally different point of view on RPGs! And YES, I´m quite aware of the fact that ME is partly a TPS, and I don´t give a F***! If Bioware over and over states Shepard´s story is MINE, than I do want the different OPTIONS to shape his/her END...and that doesn´t mean death or near death in all outcomes...I haven´t created almost two dozens of different Sheps to have them all die and not have just ONE of them have their deserved happy sendoff (happy being a relative term, seeing as the galaxy doesn´t come out unscathed and Shep DID lose friends during the war!)!!! Sorry for those of you who can´t get that into your thick sculls and think melancholy endings are the be all and end all of Shep´s journey. I envy you and I´m happy you got what you hoped for (no sarcasm), I would just like the same courtesy in return.  

Hmpf...that was WAY more, than I planned to say.
Well, If you stuck with me this far, I guess thank you for your patience and interest. Let´s hope that those of us who are still not completely happy with the end to "our" story will have a reason to smile again, at least after the last SP-DLC is out......ok, back to lurking... 


EDIT: Formatting...

You're not entitled because you want to see a reunion between Shepard and his/her LI ... or a good or some kind of happy ending ... A lot of people (me too!) want real closure for Shepard - not just imagination. I know all the problems ME3's ending still have - even after the EC - but ... I would ignore them totally if ... You know: One scene ... a few seconds long ... one smile of my LI ... one sentence ... The little things can make the difference you know.

[3DandBeyond]

SuperMegaWolf wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

SuperMegaWolf wrote...

Why does there have to be a reunion? You can't handle a melancholy ending?

Obviously. Thats the whole point of the thread.

If that's the only qualm you have with the ending you should be content. The ending was terrible but a well done "sad" ending would be infinitely better. May I suggest you read some good literature: As I Lay Dying, 1984, Of Mice and Men, The Pearl. These are just a few but I believe they will help you be more mature in your tastes.

Exactly how many of those pieces of "good literature" were set in the ME "universe"?  Not to be snarky(though you were in implying immaturity), but all that truly matters when judging ME is what exists within  ME itself.  The ending of Of Mice and Men need not be viewed next to any other work to be appreciated.  In order to be authentic it must be believably set within the Of Mice and Men milieu.  If ME3's endings work and are in keeping with great literature then why not consider it worthy of being tacked onto the end of Of Mice and Men?  Well, obviously because it would be out of context and not fit in with George, et al.

The same holds true for ME.  I don't care how Twelfth Night ended.  That does not fit in with ME.  The ending and the fate of Shepard within ME3 must ring true and be in context with all that has come before.  Those are rules set up within ME by the writers and not by me. 

Players and readers are given implicit promises within games and stories.  ME all along implied how the series would end.  Large tough  gritty action and strategic fight for the galaxy against the reapers-possible to die, possible to live, possible to win or lose, based upon your actions and decisions.  Character choices would matter. ME3 through a bomb on all of this.  The ending to Of Mice and Men was logical because all roads were leading there.  ME3's are not because no roads in it seem to even exist in ME1 and 2, and even parts of ME3 itself.

The point isn't that no one thinks a truly relevant coherent sad ending shouldn't exist, that that both a well done sad one and a well done happier one should exist.  Neither do.  This is a game of possibilities and of choices that matter.  The endings are melancholy but gratuitously so.  For them to be well done, Shepard should have died for a reason, but doesn't.  And if alive, there should be context for that as well.  Both should exist and be definitive with meaning.  I would no more deny someone a sad and relevant ending than think I should be denied a less sad and relevant ending.  Even in a happier one there is enough melancholy to go around.  The galaxy is a mess, billions if not trillions dead, people in shock and grief.  Lives shattered.  Reaper dead everywhere.  And the pieces need to be put back together, people need to be reminded once more to work together and meet the future.

What we got is dead Shepard for no reason and a torso in rubble that could be used in a dictionary as a picture to illustrate "ambiguity".  That's not how you end a heroic character's story in ME.  The Krogan get more of an epilogue than the.  Zaeed does.  Jacob does.  Hackett does.  Everyone but Shepard does.  There's no way to be content with that.

[3DandBeyond]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

chemiclord wrote...

If you honestly feel RAPED by a video game... you have some SERIOUS priority issues to sort out.

No game, or ANY expression of art, should be able hurt you that profoundly.  I'm sorry... if it does, you need help.

I looked at what that poster said as more of a mind rape. It was a violation nonetheless.

Now here's what makes this a violation. It was the pre-game expectations. It was the pre-game hype and build up as to what we were going to experience vs. what we actually experienced. They were two different things. The way it was built up we were expecting from the hype and reviews was a heroic but bittersweet ending to the series. What we received was a beat down. Those are two entirely different things.

Had the game been advertised as "experience Shepard being beaten down and leave the galaxy a wasteland" that would have been different. However, I don't think very many people would have bought the game, and I think why the hype was so high was to bury that Walter's interview.

This is exactly right.  And games, even other games feature a level of interactivity that other more passive forms of entertainment do not.

Games became visual for the same reasons that movies and tv both came into being.  I started off gaming partly by playing text only games.  You had to imagine and visualize everything and that was fine, great even.  Like reading a book and then determining where to go next.  My parents lived through a time before tv (gasp) and listened to the radio.  It was indeed about imagination, just like a book, but one that talked.  In fact, the human brain in a visual culture has become more visually oriented.  We obtain feedback more from what we see.  Why does youtube exist if not for that very reason?  And how many people are content to just listen to someone tell them about a funny video they saw?  They don't want to hear about it, no matter how well it's described.  They want to and even need to see it.  If you tell me you saw the funniest dog video, then I will say "give me the link" and I was born when God was a boy.

That's how we are wired today.  That doesn't mean we don't have imaginations but it means our imaginations start to form pictures and we need feedback that confirms or denies what our imaginations have said.  We read a book and still will go see the movie.  We read a news story and want to see what happened.

Enter ME3.  We were told what it would and would not be.  We got our imaginations going.  We played ME1 and/or 2 or just heard how great they were and all about Shepard and how you made decisions by being Shepard.  The games and the hype reinforced our opinions of what ME3 would be.  The previous games confirmed what the hype said.  If either had said or led us to believe ME3's fight with the reapers really would be impossible and never happen, our imaginations wouldn't have made us think we'd get to fight them in some big Take Earth Back campaign.  If either the hype or the previous games had said or led us to believe that the end of Shepard's story would quite literally mean the end or debasement of Shepard then personally that's not a story/game I would have bought nor wanted to play.  If either the hype or previous games has led us to believe this-that the hero of 3 games would be thoroughly trashed by being forced into an amoral choice or in a new and improved version would be given the chance for an irrational suicide, my imagination would have said, "get the hell out of here" and I wouldn't have wanted to see any of that.

ME1, 2, and even 3 and the hype for ME3 led many people to imagine a great big fight in which bad things might happen but good things were possible.  People did imagine fighting and Shepard sacrificing his/her life for his/her friends.  But they also imagined the fighting after which Shepard (through hard work and determination and different choices) stands up and quite literally raises the survivors of a near galactic extinction up behind him/her and lives and works to fix all that had been lost.  And then, we wanted to see that cool stuff happen.

We got demented, amoral, demoralizing.  And we got dead Shepards for no reason and a gasping torso with no context and no epilogue and certainly no closure.

[Wu the Lotus Blossom]

It all comes down to how much emotion each of us invested into this game. Some cared more than others, that's just a fact. The ones who didn't care as much shouldn't get to judge us just because their emotional response is different. And emotions aside, we do have the right to comment on something we paid quite a bit of money for however we like. Are we insulting Bioware? Perhaps. But they insulted us far worse.

[Marauder Shieldz]

Wu the Lotus Blossom wrote...

It all comes down to how much emotion each of us invested into this game. Some cared more than others, that's just a fact. The ones who didn't care as much shouldn't get to judge us just because their emotional response is different. And emotions aside, we do have the right to comment on something we paid quite a bit of money for however we like. Are we insulting Bioware? Perhaps. But they insulted us far worse.

This. I put hundreds of hours into this trilogy, bought the games and most of the DLCs costing me a fair bit of money. I should be able to feel whatever i like for this trilogy i put so much effort into. If that means loving the characters or getting deep into to story, so be it. 

Of course i'm upset with Bioware. The endings lacked any closure and were plain bad even with the EC. I got no reunion and had to do massive speculating to get a halfway happy ending. You can't blame us for being pissed with Bioware after all the crap in ME3. They lied about most of it as well before the game was even released.

Modifié par Marauder Shieldz, 26 juillet 2012 - 02:18 .

[The Twilight God]

SuperMegaWolf wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

SuperMegaWolf wrote...

Why does there have to be a reunion? You can't handle a melancholy ending?

Obviously. Thats the whole point of the thread.

If that's the only qualm you have with the ending you should be content. The ending was terrible but a well done "sad" ending would be infinitely better. May I suggest you read some good literature: As I Lay Dying, 1984, Of Mice and Men, The Pearl. These are just a few but I believe they will help you be more mature in your tastes.

Ah, yes. Maturity = morose and gloomy. Very mature point.

I respect your opinion, but it is just your opinion. Please don't tell myself or others how they should or should not feel about an issue. If you are satisfied with the current endings then don't download the update. Simple, right?

Why is it that because you don't want something, nobody should be able to get it? To the best of my knowledge, no one is insisting anything be forced on you. So please don't insist an unsatisfying ending continue to be forced on us. Thank you. 

P.S. Are you seriously comparing ME to a book? I've read Of Mice and Men and have absolutely zero emotional investment in it. Unlike that book I am not put in the shoes of the protagonist. I did not bond with or grow to care about the characters. It hasn't been a 5 year experience. I could care less how a single book ends. Similarly, if ME1 had ME3's ending I would not care as much. 

Modifié par The Twilight God, 26 juillet 2012 - 02:46 .

[RoboticWays]

Im just interested to see how they're going to explain in future titles.

[3DandBeyond]

The Twilight God wrote...

Ah, yes. Maturity = morose and gloomy. Very mature point.

I respect your opinion, but it is just your opinion. Please don't tell myself or others how they should or should not feel about an issue. If you are satisfied with the current endings then don't download the update. Simple, right?

Why is it that because you don't want something, nobody should be able to get it? To the best of my knowledge, no one is insisting anything be forced on you. So please don't insist an unsatisfying ending continue to be forced on us. Thank you. 

P.S. Are you seriously comparing ME to a book? I've read Of Mice and Men and have absolutely zero emotional investment in it. Unlike that book I am not put in the shoes of the protagonist. I did not bond with or grow to care about the characters. It hasn't been a 5 year experience. I could care less how a single book ends. Similarly, if ME1 had ME3's ending I would not care as much. 

Yes, if ME 1 had ended like ME3, ME would have ended right there for me.

I'm tired of being told or seeing people being told how they ought to feel or what they ought to do.  We are considered haters because we want something generally considered "good".

We are all wired differently.  Arguing with people over this is like trying to argue what someone's favorite color should be.  I like blue.  Well, you're stupid because anyone with brains knows red's where it's at.

Whenever I see someone saying, "use your imagination", "go read a book and see how it's done, that's art", I don't think it's for me to tell them to stop using their imagination or to tell them not to like other stories and their endings.

We all see things differently.  I'll get really morose here.  Ever have a loved one die?  I have and all too often.  My sister died 30 years ago last week.  I never understood until then how important it is to get to say goodbye face to face with someone (in real life).  I never got that with her (didn't see her dead-she was just gone one day) and I went through a lot of dreams where I was certain she was alive but I couldn't find her.  I never got closure and it took many years to get past this.  I knew she was dead, but my dreams didn't want me to believe it.

This is just to point out that for me, seeing something is important.  I don't confuse a game with real life and it's not as dire as all that, but it is what I wanted to see in the game.  For me this is how the game needed to end and I am not apologizing for wanting something happier as well.  I don't believe that just killing people off is all that mature.  In fact, that's very easy to do.  I could write a hundred different ways to kill off people and make it work (and I'm not a great writer), but it is not easy to do a really good happy scene.  That takes real maturity and sensitivity and is a true art.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Yes, if ME 1 had ended like ME3, ME would have ended right there for me.

I'm tired of being told or seeing people being told how they ought to feel or what they ought to do.  We are considered haters because we want something generally considered "good".

We are all wired differently.  Arguing with people over this is like trying to argue what someone's favorite color should be.  I like blue.  Well, you're stupid because anyone with brains knows red's where it's at.

Whenever I see someone saying, "use your imagination", "go read a book and see how it's done, that's art", I don't think it's for me to tell them to stop using their imagination or to tell them not to like other stories and their endings.

We all see things differently.  I'll get really morose here.  Ever have a loved one die?  I have and all too often.  My sister died 30 years ago last week.  I never understood until then how important it is to get to say goodbye face to face with someone (in real life).  I never got that with her (didn't see her dead-she was just gone one day) and I went through a lot of dreams where I was certain she was alive but I couldn't find her.  I never got closure and it took many years to get past this.  I knew she was dead, but my dreams didn't want me to believe it.

This is just to point out that for me, seeing something is important.  I don't confuse a game with real life and it's not as dire as all that, but it is what I wanted to see in the game. 

<reformatted for clarity>

For me this (closure -- my add) is how the game needed to end and I am not apologizing for wanting something happier as well.  I don't believe that just killing people off is all that mature.  In fact, that's very easy to do.  I could write a hundred different ways to kill off people and make it work (and I'm not a great writer), but it is not easy to do a really good happy scene.  That takes real maturity and sensitivity and is a true art.

I think we're about the same age. My mother died 14 yrs ago (closure). My dad died two weeks ago (102 - closure). My husband died 16 yrs ago (closure). And a dear friend of mine died 15 yrs ago (murdered - no closure). Okay enough with the morose stuff.

I had the same experience regarding my friend that I bolded and put in italics. The people I had closure with? It was easier for me to move on. My brother never got closure with my mother. He never got to say goodbye. He's still dealing with that.

You stated it very well in your last paragraph. I have nothing to add.