348 réponses à ce sujet

[chemiclord]

Wu the Lotus Blossom wrote...

You could be right. On the other hand, look at the reviews for ME 1 and 2 all over the web. Not so many people "enraged" then, right? Which means there may be some truth to what these unsatisfied fans are saying about ME 3 and they aren't just venting for no reason.

You can't claim that Mass Effect is "our story too", then refuse to make it your story when prompted.

You can't scream about how Bioware is negating your headcanon, then demand that they compose something that negates it.

The greater problem is here that what fans want in many cases outright contradict what other fans want.  If Bioware is guilty of anything, it's that they keep trying to please as many people as possible (they keep trying to offer closure while remaining open ended enough for speculation)... because that inevitably is how you wind up pleasing no one.

[TheHoneyRuns]

Bolt-Action wrote...

TheHoneyRuns wrote...

Atakuma wrote...
Plenty of people were satisfied by the EC, so it did it's job. They weren't going to please everyone nor did they try.

Yes! Exactly. That's all I've been saying. It was satisfying. It's not like I'm overjoyed with it, it wasn't the amazing experience of an ending that the first two were, but after the original ending, that's precisely what the new one is! Satisfying.

Jeepers.

This type of answer is given ALOT by fans who say they love/like the ending. I'm not busting your balls but out of curiousity, is mediocrity "satisfying" ? by your own admittance, it was mediocre. 

Uh, yeah. Yeah. A thousand times, yeah. And I never once have said that I liked or loved the ending. But I'll take it.

The ending wasn't mediocre.

This is from my original post. "They messed that first one up so bad, so monumentally, stupendously,
inconceivably bad, that I will take this small pittance as the hand of the Maker itself. Don't touch that ending again. It's fine. Leave it the hell alone, before you decide to go back to forcing all the good Shepards to be Neo/Jesus/Non-Morrigan Warden again."

I am not some mindless, knee-jerk Gears of War, COD casual who just enjoys shooters and trolls to entertain myself. That original ending f**ed my sh*t up for a good long while. Having this, it's not epic, but comparable to what it was, it's as happy an ending as I'll get. There's something to be said for being a realist.

Modifié par TheHoneyRuns, 24 juillet 2012 - 07:43 .

[10K]

Imagination is apparently cheaper. As you can see they still didn't officially deny IT, instead they tell us those who believe it arn't wrong or something like that. So basically they want all of us to imagine or speculate what actually happened at the end. This way everyone can be happy and less resources are used.

[chemiclord]

mosesarose wrote...

Imagination is apparently cheaper. As you can see they still didn't officially deny IT, instead they tell us those who believe it arn't wrong or something like that. So basically they want all of us to imagine or speculate what actually happened at the end. This way everyone can be happy and less resources are used.

I'd more say that was the ATTEMPT.

I wouldn't say that it was remotely successful.

[Vox Draco]

mosesarose wrote...

Imagination is apparently cheaper. As you can see they still didn't officially deny IT, instead they tell us those who believe it arn't wrong or something like that. So basically they want all of us to imagine or speculate what actually happened at the end. This way everyone can be happy and less resources are used.

I wonder when the time comes they sell us an empty DVD with a cool cover on it and say "imagine now! no more spoonfeeding!"

That way I could actually try to follow a decent career in professional writing? Just selling empty books? Maybe at least I give you some characters and a manual what they are supposed to feel and an outline of the overall plot, the rest is up to you?

Imagine your own bestseller, the future of storytelling!

[Bolt-Action]

The bottom line is this;
There are those that like or are okay with the endings
And
Those that are not satisfied in the slightest.
Why even bother to open a thread that you know is going to have an opposing viewpoint?
Do you really think that by spouting witty retorts such as, get over it. People that do not like the endings, are suddenly going to be struck dumb by the sudden thought, oh yeah, I adore the ending now!
Do we think BW is going to change the ending? Not likely, but we can hope until we move on, in our own way. Fact is, overall, I like the game, it's the ending I take offense to.
If you love the ending great, and to take a page from your own book, move on.

[PuppiesOfDeath2]

The endings were ART. Just like a monkey flinging poo at a blank canvas is ART.

[TheHoneyRuns]

Bolt-Action wrote...

The bottom line is this;
There are those that like or are okay with the endings
And
Those that are not satisfied in the slightest.
Why even bother to open a thread that you know is going to have an opposing viewpoint?
Do you really think that by spouting witty retorts such as, get over it. People that do not like the endings, are suddenly going to be struck dumb by the sudden thought, oh yeah, I adore the ending now!
Do we think BW is going to change the ending? Not likely, but we can hope until we move on, in our own way. Fact is, overall, I like the game, it's the ending I take offense to.
If you love the ending great, and to take a page from your own book, move on.

...? I'm looking for anyone who has said this. I don't think anyone has yet. It's all been relatively civil discourse.

[3DandBeyond]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Why do all you Reunioners hate anyone who picked Control or Synthesis?

I mean, really. It makes me feel bad.

Also, no. Not now. Not ever. Get over it.

I don't think people that want a reunion hate the people that pick control or synthesis.  I know I don't.  I hate all choices equally and not those that choose them.  If I say they are demented, that doesn't mean I think you are or anyone else is.  You have a right to choose and do and like what you want.  My problem always has been with the writers.

They want you to think about the endings-always said they did and they said we didn't understand the original ones.  Now we get the EC ones and they are what I always thought they were and I like them even less because they meant them to be this way.

I want Shepard to have one ending that's happier.  Shepard lives and sees his/her friends and vice versa.  That's it.

I hate destroy because it's genocide. 
I hate control because even paragon Shepard/Shreaper says non-paragon things, this lets serial killer reapers with people goo live among people whose friends and loved ones reapers have "eaten".  Reapers are also there to direct the path of learning for organics.
I hate synthesis because it's forced on people who wouldn't all want it-some who didn't want even tech implants.  It's also the kid's demented idea of perfection.  Of course it is-he thinks people want to be more like him.  It advances people beyond their readiness and there is value in learning things and not just in knowing things.  This may advance people along a path the reaper kid directs, so knowledge is all from a reaper perspective.  Go back and see what Legion said about how the geth see things, many eyes from different perspectives as well as learning along different paths to gain perspective.  Also, immortality and over-population, never a problem?

All choices solve the starkid's problem and not Shepard's or the galaxy's and the kid keeps sending the real problem every 50k years.  Control and synthesis allow them to still exist.  The kid's programming got warped, so why not Shreaper's and why couldn't synthesized beings get warped as well and go "crazy". 

All 3 are also poisonous fruit from one poisoned tree-the kid.  He's the only one that knows about the choices, he doesn't get mad if Shepard chooses any of them, so they must all work for him, and anything that helps my enemy isn't likely to help me or at least I wouldn't trust it.

I don't hate anyone for picking anything.  It's just frustrating that this stuff is being passed off as some sort of win when all of them totally force any Shepard to compromise values, morals, friendship, and humanity.

[RiouHotaru]

chuckles471 wrote...

Your entitled.

You need everything spoon feed.

You are not smart enough.

You don't understand how fiction works.

Movies do this all the time.

Just move on.

Bioware doesn't make games just for you.

You are the reason that art is being dumbed down.

Use you imagination.

Whine some more.

Stop complaining they gave you the EC.

These are some of the things you will read in this topic. Just save you some time.

To be fair, about a third of these are true, at worse, and about half are true at best.  The rest is hyperbole, like this thread's OP statement.

[3DandBeyond]

Vox Draco wrote...

mosesarose wrote...

Imagination is apparently cheaper. As you can see they still didn't officially deny IT, instead they tell us those who believe it arn't wrong or something like that. So basically they want all of us to imagine or speculate what actually happened at the end. This way everyone can be happy and less resources are used.

I wonder when the time comes they sell us an empty DVD with a cool cover on it and say "imagine now! no more spoonfeeding!"

That way I could actually try to follow a decent career in professional writing? Just selling empty books? Maybe at least I give you some characters and a manual what they are supposed to feel and an outline of the overall plot, the rest is up to you?

Imagine your own bestseller, the future of storytelling!

Well along with that disc you will get links to twitter.  That's where initial retconning exists and then contradictory plot filler.

[RiouHotaru]

3DandBeyond wrote...

I don't think people that want a reunion hate the people that pick control or synthesis.  I know I don't.  I hate all choices equally and not those that choose them.  If I say they are demented, that doesn't mean I think you are or anyone else is.  You have a right to choose and do and like what you want.  My problem always has been with the writers.

They want you to think about the endings-always said they did and they said we didn't understand the original ones.  Now we get the EC ones and they are what I always thought they were and I like them even less because they meant them to be this way.

I want Shepard to have one ending that's happier.  Shepard lives and sees his/her friends and vice versa.  That's it.

I hate destroy because it's genocide. 
I hate control because even paragon Shepard/Shreaper says non-paragon things, this lets serial killer reapers with people goo live among people whose friends and loved ones reapers have "eaten".  Reapers are also there to direct the path of learning for organics.
I hate synthesis because it's forced on people who wouldn't all want it-some who didn't want even tech implants.  It's also the kid's demented idea of perfection.  Of course it is-he thinks people want to be more like him.  It advances people beyond their readiness and there is value in learning things and not just in knowing things.  This may advance people along a path the reaper kid directs, so knowledge is all from a reaper perspective.  Go back and see what Legion said about how the geth see things, many eyes from different perspectives as well as learning along different paths to gain perspective.  Also, immortality and over-population, never a problem?

All choices solve the starkid's problem and not Shepard's or the galaxy's and the kid keeps sending the real problem every 50k years.  Control and synthesis allow them to still exist.  The kid's programming got warped, so why not Shreaper's and why couldn't synthesized beings get warped as well and go "crazy". 

All 3 are also poisonous fruit from one poisoned tree-the kid.  He's the only one that knows about the choices, he doesn't get mad if Shepard chooses any of them, so they must all work for him, and anything that helps my enemy isn't likely to help me or at least I wouldn't trust it.

I don't hate anyone for picking anything.  It's just frustrating that this stuff is being passed off as some sort of win when all of them totally force any Shepard to compromise values, morals, friendship, and humanity.

If you want to only see the negatives of the choices, that's entirely your fault.  Not Bioware's.

[TheHoneyRuns]

...ah, except, apparently, for Father Jerusalem. I must've missed that post.

[3DandBeyond]

RiouHotaru wrote...

chuckles471 wrote...

Your entitled.

You need everything spoon feed.

You are not smart enough.

You don't understand how fiction works.

Movies do this all the time.

Just move on.

Bioware doesn't make games just for you.

You are the reason that art is being dumbed down.

Use you imagination.

Whine some more.

Stop complaining they gave you the EC.

These are some of the things you will read in this topic. Just save you some time.

To be fair, about a third of these are true, at worse, and about half are true at best.  The rest is hyperbole, like this thread's OP statement.

No all of them are true.  I've seen every one of these said repeatedly.  In fact the list is incomplete.

[Krunjar]

Or could we perhaps let bioware focus on more single player dlc? Love interests are all well and good but there is more to Mass Effect than what hole your shep decides to get his Bleep! wet in. Or what pole she decides to ride. If bioware was to satisfy all the butthurt fans who don't get full coverage in Me3 it would probably be 2050 before we get Retake Omega.

[3DandBeyond]

RiouHotaru wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

I don't think people that want a reunion hate the people that pick control or synthesis.  I know I don't.  I hate all choices equally and not those that choose them.  If I say they are demented, that doesn't mean I think you are or anyone else is.  You have a right to choose and do and like what you want.  My problem always has been with the writers.

They want you to think about the endings-always said they did and they said we didn't understand the original ones.  Now we get the EC ones and they are what I always thought they were and I like them even less because they meant them to be this way.

I want Shepard to have one ending that's happier.  Shepard lives and sees his/her friends and vice versa.  That's it.

I hate destroy because it's genocide. 
I hate control because even paragon Shepard/Shreaper says non-paragon things, this lets serial killer reapers with people goo live among people whose friends and loved ones reapers have "eaten".  Reapers are also there to direct the path of learning for organics.
I hate synthesis because it's forced on people who wouldn't all want it-some who didn't want even tech implants.  It's also the kid's demented idea of perfection.  Of course it is-he thinks people want to be more like him.  It advances people beyond their readiness and there is value in learning things and not just in knowing things.  This may advance people along a path the reaper kid directs, so knowledge is all from a reaper perspective.  Go back and see what Legion said about how the geth see things, many eyes from different perspectives as well as learning along different paths to gain perspective.  Also, immortality and over-population, never a problem?

All choices solve the starkid's problem and not Shepard's or the galaxy's and the kid keeps sending the real problem every 50k years.  Control and synthesis allow them to still exist.  The kid's programming got warped, so why not Shreaper's and why couldn't synthesized beings get warped as well and go "crazy". 

All 3 are also poisonous fruit from one poisoned tree-the kid.  He's the only one that knows about the choices, he doesn't get mad if Shepard chooses any of them, so they must all work for him, and anything that helps my enemy isn't likely to help me or at least I wouldn't trust it.

I don't hate anyone for picking anything.  It's just frustrating that this stuff is being passed off as some sort of win when all of them totally force any Shepard to compromise values, morals, friendship, and humanity.

If you want to only see the negatives of the choices, that's entirely your fault.  Not Bioware's.

No, that is exactly as they are.  You take any one of them and point me to something I've said that is not true.  You can't avoid the negatives because they are not positive messages.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 24 juillet 2012 - 07:58 .

[Bolt-Action]

I'd like to point out; if everyone was "realistic" then BW would not have been forced to release the EC.

[Vox Draco]

Krunjar wrote...

Or could we perhaps let bioware focus on more single player dlc? Love interests are all well and good but there is more to Mass Effect than what hole your shep decides to get his Bleep! wet in. Or what pole she decides to ride. If bioware was to satisfy all the butthurt fans who don't get full coverage in Me3 it would probably be 2050 before we get Retake Omega.

Well, they can actually stuff Omega where the sun doesn't shine as far as I am concerned. ME was way more than shooting things or staring at Aria's blue arse.

They already screwed the entire story-arch with the Reaper-threat, so what is left for many fans? The characters, adn Shepard as smallest denominator for a somewhat satisfying experience. But as it seems, Bioware gives a damn about that...

And I love how you reduce the demands for an emotional reunion to sex...says more about you I guess than about the reunion-supporters...

[TheHoneyRuns]

Krunjar wrote...

Or could we perhaps let bioware focus on more single player dlc? Love interests are all well and good but there is more to Mass Effect than what hole your shep decides to get his Bleep! wet in. Or what pole she decides to ride. If bioware was to satisfy all the butthurt fans who don't get full coverage in Me3 it would probably be 2050 before we get Retake Omega.

I think you're missing the point, here, Krunjar.

Many people don't look at the forward progression of storytelling in gaming that now includes epic romance between characters spread out across three games with the same kind of... loving adoration that you apparently do.

For these guys, if the ending sucks and your Shep doesn't get to be with the 'hole they're getting it wet in' or the 'pole they're riding', in a cutscene and if all of the choices lead to miserable, non-sensical outcomes, then why the hell would they want to play single-player DLC that doesn't change the ending?

Modifié par TheHoneyRuns, 24 juillet 2012 - 08:08 .

[TheHoneyRuns]

Bolt-Action wrote...

I'd like to point out; if everyone was "realistic" then BW would not have been forced to release the EC.

I wasn't being a realist back then. I was a hurt gamer who'd spent a lot of money on a crap non-ending. Realism comes when you know the limitations of what they're going to be willing to do. If they release more ending where Shepard actually reunites with LI, I will track down whatever thread you're on on the Social, bow and swear fealty to your kingdom, Bolt, and that's only half-joking. What I mean is, I will heartily apologize for not having stuck to my guns.

But there is just no way they will release a third ending with no crucible. That's insane.

Modifié par TheHoneyRuns, 24 juillet 2012 - 08:09 .

[Wu the Lotus Blossom]

Regarding the "butthurt fans" remark and other similar shots at fans unsatisfied with the ending/s: Guys, I get that we have different opinions, but is it really necessary to become aggressive with each other? After all, we're all here because we love ME as a whole and us "reunioners" are venting here because we couldn't really do it with our friends who haven't played ME and therefore wouldn't understand our involvement with the thing. I propose we try to keep it civil.

Modifié par Wu the Lotus Blossom, 24 juillet 2012 - 08:26 .

[Krunjar]

TheHoneyRuns wrote...

Krunjar wrote...

Or could we perhaps let bioware focus on more single player dlc? Love interests are all well and good but there is more to Mass Effect than what hole your shep decides to get his Bleep! wet in. Or what pole she decides to ride. If bioware was to satisfy all the butthurt fans who don't get full coverage in Me3 it would probably be 2050 before we get Retake Omega.

I think you're missing the point, here, Krunjar.

Many people don't look at the forward progression of storytelling in gaming that now includes epic romance between characters spread out across three games with the same kind of... loving adoration that you apparently do.

For these guys, if the ending sucks and your Shep doesn't get to be with the 'hole they're getting it wet in' or the 'pole they're riding', in a cutscene and if all of the choices lead to miserable, non-sensical outcomes, then why the hell would they want to play single-player DLC that doesn't change the ending?

I am not "missing the point" Look I may have come accross as crass. But frankly I am sick and fed up of having romance be a central plot in absolutley EVERYTHING. Mass effect is supposed to be about action and roleplaying. Romance plays a part in that but only a part. And not something that should be central to the plot. And honestly the romance in mass effect is about as weak plot wise as your average Harem Anime. Hell it was late in Me3 before any romances between squaddies that didn't involve Shepard even showed up. Constructing a credible and interesting romance is an art form into itself and frankly most of those in Me franchise fall short. And even those that don't aren't really all that special. If it wasn't for the fact that it catered to the "Explore strange new worlds meet exotic green (pr blue) women and F*ck em kink" It wouldn't even receive notice. 

Liara - ZOMG u like protheans too!?
Tali - Be my hero!
Jack - Someone was nice to me for a change!
Miranda - You like my ass? I like your ass too!
Garrus - Interspecies XXX Sure why not any holes a goal! (Sick little puppy)
Kaiden - Hello im the token LI for weirdos who play a femshep (Sarcasm before anyone goes mental) 
Thane - Let me close my eyes and pretent your my ex
Jacob - Do I really have to even try here?
Ash - Were both military! we have so much in common! Liek gunz an making thingz ded.

I know I missed a few but u get my drift.

Modifié par Krunjar, 24 juillet 2012 - 08:36 .

[Bolt-Action]

TheHoneyRuns wrote...

Bolt-Action wrote...

I'd like to point out; if everyone was "realistic" then BW would not have been forced to release the EC.

I wasn't being a realist back then. I was a hurt gamer who'd spent a lot of money on a crap non-ending. Realism comes when you know the limitations of what they're going to be willing to do. If they release more ending where Shepard actually reunites with LI, I will track down whatever thread you're on on the Social, bow and swear fealty to your kingdom, Bolt, and that's only half-joking. What I mean is, I will heartily apologize for not having stuck to my guns.

But there is just no way they will release a third ending with no crucible. That's insane.

You were a "hurt gamer who stuck to their guns" we are still there. While I don't believe BW is going to release another ending, I just don't see it happening, ever, Im still hoping that somehow, they resolve it. 

While I appreciate the gesture, as odd as it is "kingdom"? Lol you got me there btw, all I'm saying is this; you're okay with the ending and that's fine, I'm not berating (not saying you are either)you into not liking the ending. We have differing opinions, that is all, I respect your take on it, just respect ours in return, that is all. 

[AlanC9]

TheHoneyRuns wrote...
For these guys, if the ending sucks and your Shep doesn't get to be with the 'hole they're getting it wet in' or the 'pole they're riding', in a cutscene 

Can we please not use these metaphors in this thread?

[TheHoneyRuns]

Bolt-Action wrote...

TheHoneyRuns wrote...

Bolt-Action wrote...

I'd like to point out; if everyone was "realistic" then BW would not have been forced to release the EC.

I wasn't being a realist back then. I was a hurt gamer who'd spent a lot of money on a crap non-ending. Realism comes when you know the limitations of what they're going to be willing to do. If they release more ending where Shepard actually reunites with LI, I will track down whatever thread you're on on the Social, bow and swear fealty to your kingdom, Bolt, and that's only half-joking. What I mean is, I will heartily apologize for not having stuck to my guns.

But there is just no way they will release a third ending with no crucible. That's insane.

You were a "hurt gamer who stuck to their guns" we are still there. While I don't believe BW is going to release another ending, I just don't see it happening, ever, Im still hoping that somehow, they resolve it. 

While I appreciate the gesture, as odd as it is "kingdom"? Lol you got me there btw, all I'm saying is this; you're okay with the ending and that's fine, I'm not berating (not saying you are either)you into not liking the ending. We have differing opinions, that is all, I respect your take on it, just respect ours in return, that is all. 

Totally! Of course I respect the fact that you don't like the ending. I don't like it either, but for me, it'll do.

I certainly do not remember being disrespectful previously on the thread. Well, beyond that one 'people never cease to amaze me' point, but I already withdrew that statement as prickishness. A thread cannot survive simply on the basis of one person saying, "this stinks" and having every subsequent post follow with, "Agreed! Bump."

Discourse is the spice of life, sir. ...At least until we start boiling down ten hours of dialogue in the 'getting to know your LI' phase of each game to a single silly line that deliberately ignores every nuance of character... Krunjar.