348 réponses à ce sujet

[Marauder Shieldz]

comrade gando wrote...

I recall a thread about all the lies bioware told us. It had a complete list of pre-release quotes, most of which were completely false by the time the game ended, and the thread was closed with chris priestly saying something like: "they are not lies. end of line"

they aren't lies? I have yet to see these quotes be true.

I saw it. They flat out lied about the majority of the game. Makes the game even more unbearable finding out they lied about everything.

http://social.biowar.../index/10056886

Modifié par Marauder Shieldz, 25 juillet 2012 - 03:01 .

[3DandBeyond]

This is exactly the point. It's like they think they can say anything and the real insult there is that they will later claim they never said it. A torso in rubble is not closure in any way and they know it.

I really don't get people that think this is all ok. I can't tell you how many times I've seen where someone posted a complaint about some of the things on that list, even just the vastly different endings thing and another person will say, "that's just hype. No one believes that." This attitude is so wrong. If you say something to try to get me to buy what you are selling and I want to hold you to that when you don't deliver, I am not the one at fault. You are. As of yet, Bioware has not delivered on anything they promised.

They promised closure. This is not closure.

[Alex101Crusader]

Wu the Lotus Blossom wrote...
We deserve a lot better than pictures in our heads after investing so much emotion into this story. Am I right?

You're totally right

3DandBeyond wrote...
They promised closure. This is not closure.

So true...

Modifié par Alex101Crusader, 25 juillet 2012 - 03:20 .

[comrade gando]

the more I think about it the less sense the catalyst ultimately makes.

Sovereign: Organic life is a mistake.
Catalyst: Synthesis is the final evolution of organic life.

Rannoch Reaper: Harbinger speaks of you.
Catalyst: I control the reapers.

there's just contradictions all over the place when you're talking to that stupid glowstick, he literally throws the entire plot of the story out in 10 minutes flat. If they're not doing this on purpose, then mac n' casey are some of the worst writers I've ever seen.

this is like ewe boll standards here...

Modifié par comrade gando, 25 juillet 2012 - 03:25 .

[macrocarl]

I like it the way it is. I was sort of wanting it too a bit. And no offense to all the fanfic endings, but after seeing different LI reunions made by other folks out there on the interwebz I realized that it's kind of stale. It's super predictable and not really worth it.

[Marauder Shieldz]

3DandBeyond wrote...

This is exactly the point. It's like they think they can say anything and the real insult there is that they will later claim they never said it. A torso in rubble is not closure in any way and they know it.

I really don't get people that think this is all ok. I can't tell you how many times I've seen where someone posted a complaint about some of the things on that list, even just the vastly different endings thing and another person will say, "that's just hype. No one believes that." This attitude is so wrong. If you say something to try to get me to buy what you are selling and I want to hold you to that when you don't deliver, I am not the one at fault. You are. As of yet, Bioware has not delivered on anything they promised.

They promised closure. This is not closure.

They lied about the game, hyped it up beyond comparison, and then when the ****storm started they brought out a DLC that was meant to bring closure, but it didn't. The EC didn't really do much. FIxed the massive plot holes and added a small crappy epilogue, but not much else.

The fans asked for closure. We wanted to see Shepard reunite with his LI. We wanted to see what happened to the characters we loved after the events of the game. I think they even promised us a LI reunion but it was another thing they lied about.

Believe it or not, we wanted a happy ending. I paid 54 Euro for a complete game. That means the ending, and not having to do massive speculation just to get a halfway decent ending. Its not a lot to ask for. After putting hundreds of hours into to the game and getting to love the characters and stories, and ending it like that...

Quoting Aria T'Loak here, but now Bioware is on the top of my **** list.

Forget Bungie and Halo : Reach and Infinity Ward or Blizzard or whoever else. What Bioware did is unforgivable, whether they intended it or not.

[comrade gando]

macrocarl wrote...

I like it the way it is. I was sort of wanting it too a bit. And no offense to all the fanfic endings, but after seeing different LI reunions made by other folks out there on the interwebz I realized that it's kind of stale. It's super predictable and not really worth it.

I'd rather have predictable than this. at least predictable makes sense.

[3DandBeyond]

I posted this elsewhere, but head canon works two ways. They can head canon my money and see how that works for them. Speculate that. Then they can take it any way they like. Imagine I've said they will get my money as a beacon of hope. Or look at the last dollar I gave them, sitting alone under a pile of promises.

[chemiclord]

Marauder Shieldz wrote...

I asked for closure. I wanted to see Shepard reunite with his LI. I wanted to see what happened to the characters I loved after the events of the game. I think they even promised us a LI reunion but it was another thing they lied about.

Believe it or not, I wanted a happy ending. I paid 54 Euro for a complete game. That means the ending, and not having to do massive speculation just to get a halfway decent ending. Its not a lot to ask for. After putting hundreds of hours into to the game and getting to love the characters and stories, and ending it like that...

Fixed that for ya.

[mauro2222]

Predictable or a M. Night Shyamalan... I mean Mac Walters twist?

So hard!

Predictable...

Modifié par mauro2222, 25 juillet 2012 - 03:35 .

[Marauder Shieldz]

chemiclord wrote...

Marauder Shieldz wrote...

I asked for closure. I wanted to see Shepard reunite with his LI. I wanted to see what happened to the characters I loved after the events of the game. I think they even promised us a LI reunion but it was another thing they lied about.

Believe it or not, I wanted a happy ending. I paid 54 Euro for a complete game. That means the ending, and not having to do massive speculation just to get a halfway decent ending. Its not a lot to ask for. After putting hundreds of hours into to the game and getting to love the characters and stories, and ending it like that...

Fixed that for ya.

Yeah. I did want all that. But your blind if you can't see the amount of people who see it the same way as me. The countless threads, polls, etc. 

I'm not speaking for everyone, of course not. Everyone has different opinions and are entitled to them, but i'm not alone in mine.

[garrusfan1]

OP I agree. Honestly OP money on the table they will put it in another dlc so more people will buy it or better yet sell it individually for only $10 and unfortunately many myself included will buy it.

[chemiclord]

Marauder Shieldz wrote...

Yeah. I did want all that. But your blind if you can't see the amount of people who see it the same way as me. The countless threads, polls, etc. 

I'm not speaking for everyone, of course not. Everyone has different opinions and are entitled to them, but i'm not alone in mine.

It's a pet peeve of mine.

You want these things, and there's nothing inherently wrong with wanting them.  Own it.  You don't need to hide behind pluralized language to make that opinion have weight.  It's just as valid as anyone else.  Personally, when I see or hear someone use "we" or "our" or "us" to qualify what they're requesting, it tells me they aren't nearly as confident in their opinion, and I inherently start to dismiss that person.

[DocGriffin]

I'll just leave this here

[Marauder Shieldz]

chemiclord wrote...

Marauder Shieldz wrote...

Yeah. I did want all that. But your blind if you can't see the amount of people who see it the same way as me. The countless threads, polls, etc. 

I'm not speaking for everyone, of course not. Everyone has different opinions and are entitled to them, but i'm not alone in mine.

It's a pet peeve of mine.

You want these things, and there's nothing inherently wrong with wanting them.  Own it.  You don't need to hide behind pluralized language to make that opinion have weight.  It's just as valid as anyone else.  Personally, when I see or hear someone use "we" or "our" or "us" to qualify what they're requesting, it tells me they aren't nearly as confident in their opinion, and I inherently start to dismiss that person.

I understand that, and your right. 

Thanks for shedding light on that. I'll think before i do it again. I mainly did it because i genuinely don't think i'm alone on the forums in what i think though, but i do understand where your coming from.

[3DandBeyond]

comrade gando wrote...

macrocarl wrote...

I like it the way it is. I was sort of wanting it too a bit. And no offense to all the fanfic endings, but after seeing different LI reunions made by other folks out there on the interwebz I realized that it's kind of stale. It's super predictable and not really worth it.

I'd rather have predictable than this. at least predictable makes sense.

Predicatable can also be very satsifying.  Know why happy endings work?  Guess.  Because they make people happy.  Sometimes simple is better.  They created a rather simple story with a lot of story lines surrounding it and those were rather simple as well.  Good or bad and so on. 

Then they went all Kubrick at the end and wanted to recreate 2001's star child feeling where life is just one big circle.  2001: A Space Odyssey was borrowed from heavily at the end as well as a bunch of other stories and games.  The reapers plant tech to advance organics.  The monolith in 2001 did the same and was put there by a race that had been organic became biomechanical and then became pure energy through evolution.

And Stanley Kubrick wanted 2001's ending to be open to interpretation whereas Clarke wanted it to be a bit more understandable.

Gee, it's never predictable when you copy someone else's work is it?  The fact that a lot of it has been done to death before and done better makes ME3's ending is as cliche as can be.  So, give me a choice between happy fulfilling and comprehendable cliche and sad, demoralizing, suicidal, genocidal, and demented, contradictory fantastic cliche and I'll go for happy every time.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 25 juillet 2012 - 03:57 .

[eye basher]

That's the problem with gamers this days no imagination.

[chemiclord]

3DandBeyond wrote...

So, give me a choice between happy fulfilling and comprehendable cliche and sad, demoralizing, suicidal, genocidal, and demented, contradictory fantastic cliche and I'll go for happy every time.

And you have now answered your own question about why Bioware didn't add a "happy" ending.

Whether you think it was a good move or not; Bioware wanted to end ME3 (and the trilogy) with a moral dilemma.  They wanted you to think about what was important to you and make a value judgment.  Having an inherently "happy" ending defeats that moral choice.  It's no longer a question... it becomes "go for the happy every time."

[3DandBeyond]

chemiclord wrote...

Marauder Shieldz wrote...

Yeah. I did want all that. But your blind if you can't see the amount of people who see it the same way as me. The countless threads, polls, etc. 

I'm not speaking for everyone, of course not. Everyone has different opinions and are entitled to them, but i'm not alone in mine.

It's a pet peeve of mine.

You want these things, and there's nothing inherently wrong with wanting them.  Own it.  You don't need to hide behind pluralized language to make that opinion have weight.  It's just as valid as anyone else.  Personally, when I see or hear someone use "we" or "our" or "us" to qualify what they're requesting, it tells me they aren't nearly as confident in their opinion, and I inherently start to dismiss that person.

The problem here is you can't read too much into what people say-just because someone says, "this is what we all want," doesn't mean what you think it means.  Your analysing it way too much.

On these forums people in some sense become actually protective of themselves.  It's not that they don't fully believe what they are saying, it's because they know as soon as they say it it will be ripped apart as did happen here.  There are people that just run around making it their business in little quips to tell people just how stupid they are.  So, in the face of that people that often did say before, "I wanted xyz" now want a crowd standing with them.

I state it emphatically, I want and feel I do deserve, because I was promised one, a happier ending for closure.  In saying that I know immediately there is someone who will read it and say that I am in the minority (I don't think I am).  They will say that I am acting entitled and just demanding to have everything done just for me.  I'm not demanding anything, since I am in no position to demand anything, but entitled, yes I am.  I am entitled because a company that made multiple repeated promises and has called fans liars and stated there was closure has as yet to deliver on promises made to me.  Yes, they made them to others as well.  But I gave them my money, so I speak for me.  I value my money and really can't understand those that don't value theirs and are willing to accept less than what was promised.

I don't think anyone that says "we" does not believe fully what they are saying.  I think at this point a lot of people feel very beaten down.  They loved this series and the stories and the characters and they loved Shepard.  They hoped and I hoped Bioware did as well.  I think BW has proven they couldn't care less about both Shepard and fans.

[clarkusdarkus]

they should have said in 2007 that we'll need to use our imaginations at the end as would have saved me many hours and money i could have spent in a brothel.....either way im screwd!!! We can now add the closure quote with the pre-release quotes as misleading and false. I dont pay to use my imagination at the end of a trilogy...

[3DandBeyond]

chemiclord wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

So, give me a choice between happy fulfilling and comprehendable cliche and sad, demoralizing, suicidal, genocidal, and demented, contradictory fantastic cliche and I'll go for happy every time.

And you have now answered your own question about why Bioware didn't add a "happy" ending.

Whether you think it was a good move or not; Bioware wanted to end ME3 (and the trilogy) with a moral dilemma.  They wanted you to think about what was important to you and make a value judgment.  Having an inherently "happy" ending defeats that moral choice.  It's no longer a question... it becomes "go for the happy every time."

No, I didn't.  You are mischaracterizing what I said.  I was making a comparison between all of the endings they have created and one simpler alternative.  The endings as they are are pseudo-intellectual and sophomoric.  There is no value judgement to be made, because neither ending allows you to adhere to any sort of real values.  They are all equally poor attempts at it because there are no rewards and the compromises of Shepard's morals are not made in order to achieve some good.

No, a happy ending doesn't defeat a moral choice at all.  There is no moral choice in these endings.  I actually want a moral choice-in fact, I've always wanted my moral choices to lead somewhere in the game and story.  But the Shepard at the end that makes any choice, no longer has any morals.  That Shepard capitulates and helps the enemy achieve its goal.  Or, the player is rewarded for being an idiot and not wanting to make a choice and loses the war for Shepard.

I think the real moral and value conflict should have been what Shepard would do for everyone else, not what Shepard would force everyone else to do.

I and others have envisioned scenarios where Shepard sacrificed all for the galaxy-that's a sacrifice for something.  And also a path to a happier ending which contrary to the views of some is not all rainbows and bunnies.  The galaxy would still be a mess, billions have died, planets are in ruins, and people at long last are on their own to freely determine their own future without reaper interference.

I'd play endings that made sense and even play sadder ones if they just made sense and actually offered a good outcome for someone.  But in the absence of sense and logic and in the presence of demented cliched endings, as I said, give me a happy cliched ending every time.

[3DandBeyond]

chemiclord wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

So, give me a choice between happy fulfilling and comprehendable cliche and sad, demoralizing, suicidal, genocidal, and demented, contradictory fantastic cliche and I'll go for happy every time.

And you have now answered your own question about why Bioware didn't add a "happy" ending.

Whether you think it was a good move or not; Bioware wanted to end ME3 (and the trilogy) with a moral dilemma.  They wanted you to think about what was important to you and make a value judgment.  Having an inherently "happy" ending defeats that moral choice.  It's no longer a question... it becomes "go for the happy every time."

And please with all due respect don't try to say here that BW didn't want a canon ending.  They have repeatedly said nothing in the game is canon and yet they've made things obviously at least partly canon all over the place.  I don't care if one ending is a canon one or not.  In fact, that would be a step up, but there is nothing from what they have done to suggest they have ever thought of happy anything as canon.  You want Mordin to live, you have to kill Wrex.  You want to stop the reapers from using the Alpha relay, then kill 300k Batarians.  Is there a non-canon way to solve the Arrival?

The very reason why they gratuitously added the death of the geth and EDI to destroy was so it would be non-canon for no reason.

However, their original canon ending and meaning of the original endings was that the galaxy was a wasteland.   If things are never to be canon, then never make anything that is canon.

What's the non-canon ending for ME1?  ME2?  Shepard and everyone can die, but you can't play ME3 based on it if that happens, so there is no non-canon ending for either of those.

The thing is if there were several equally authentic and well done endings that did offer a real variety of sensible and even morality issues where just one was an unequicovally happy, victorious ending with no consequences, I might choose it.  But you might not.  That would make in not canon.  A lot of people wouldn't want a happy ending no matter what.  Others would want a happy ending and nothing else.  Choices.  Not canon at all.

In the game, Liara is repeatedly practically thrown at Shepard all along the way.  Many people always choose her for their LI.  Many never will.  Some will always go for Thane even though he isn't around much.  Some won't go for any LI at all.  As presented Liara is frequently seen as the one the writers want you to choose.  But that does not mean you have to.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 25 juillet 2012 - 04:46 .

[Wu the Lotus Blossom]

3DandBeyond wrote...

comrade gando wrote...

macrocarl wrote...

I like it the way it is. I was sort of wanting it too a bit. And no offense to all the fanfic endings, but after seeing different LI reunions made by other folks out there on the interwebz I realized that it's kind of stale. It's super predictable and not really worth it.

I'd rather have predictable than this. at least predictable makes sense.

Predicatable can also be very satsifying.  Know why happy endings work?  Guess.  Because they make people happy.  Sometimes simple is better.  They created a rather simple story with a lot of story lines surrounding it and those were rather simple as well.  Good or bad and so on. 

Then they went all Kubrick at the end and wanted to recreate 2001's star child feeling where life is just one big circle.  2001: A Space Odyssey was borrowed from heavily at the end as well as a bunch of other stories and games.  The reapers plant tech to advance organics.  The monolith in 2001 did the same and was put there by a race that had been organic became biomechanical and then became pure energy through evolution.

And Stanley Kubrick wanted 2001's ending to be open to interpretation whereas Clarke wanted it to be a bit more understandable.

Gee, it's never predictable when you copy someone else's work is it?  The fact that a lot of it has been done to death before and done better makes ME3's ending is as cliche as can be.  So, give me a choice between happy fulfilling and comprehendable cliche and sad, demoralizing, suicidal, genocidal, and demented, contradictory fantastic cliche and I'll go for happy every time.

Couldn't have said it better. Many people went to this game because it made them happy. I'm actually wondering if the people who are mocking us right now were sitting there during ME 1 and 2 going: "Oh, man, I love this game!!! I really hope the ending will be vague and will render all I'm doing COMPLETELY irrelevant! Man, maybe Shepard could DIE too!!!"

[Wu the Lotus Blossom]

eye basher wrote...

That's the problem with gamers this days no imagination.

I have plenty of imagination, I just prefer not to have to pay to use it.

[3DandBeyond]

Wu the Lotus Blossom wrote...

eye basher wrote...

That's the problem with gamers this days no imagination.

I have plenty of imagination, I just prefer not to have to pay to use it.

I actually think we should all submit a bill to Bioware for the need to make up our own ending--oh and for all those that helped them write the EC by speculating as to what the original endings meant.