221 réponses à ce sujet

[The Angry One]

maaaze wrote...

who knows...you go there were you needed to be.. but it was designed to be near the spot where the beam takes you...which makes sense because if the reapers already took the citadel they close the arms and activate the beam. and if not ...you don´t need the lift.

Yeah you realise that's yet another happy coincidence. Oh look the harvesting beam takes you directly to the same level as the auxilary control console for the entire Citadel. What a stroke of providence!

Gee it sure is lucky the Reapers didn't decide to send people anywhere else, like into a blending machine.

statement makes no sense...the designers build the crucible with the citadel in mind. or did you miss that?

And yet they didn't know the Citadel was the key component. Eh?

[RavenEyry]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

It symbolizes, to me, that getting shot in the gut is a slow, painful way to die...

Shepard never got shot in the gut...

[Mazebook]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@maaze:
Of course you can interpret things that way. But the symbolism exists nonetheless.

of course you can interpret things on hand of baseless assumptions...and get your symbolism.

He was lift up because of all he has accomplished.

it makes no sense for the catalyst to lift you up.
But it makes total sense that the crucible does it´s job it was designed for.

[D24O]

I thought no one knew about the Catalyst's dais, so them desining a function to get somewhere they don't know exists is far fetched. IIRC Shepard was the first one to go there, and the Citadel is a part of the Catalyst anyway, not a stretch to say he controls it. Plus the Crucible is a power source.

Modifié par D24O, 24 juillet 2012 - 08:16 .

[Zardoc]

maaaze wrote...

for the last time ...the crucible lifts him up...not the catalyst!

why is that so hard to understand?

I have a 4 meter tall lizard man covered in fur in my basement. See, I can make sh*t up too.

[RavenEyry]

maaaze wrote...

of course you can interpret things on hand of baseless assumptions...and get your symbolism.

He was lift up because of all he has accomplished.

it makes no sense for the catalyst to lift you up.
But it makes total sense that the crucible does it´s job it was designed for.

It's still just your opinion though, and you presented it in such a fashion that any debate would be wrong.

[Zardoc]

maaaze wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

@maaze:
Of course you can interpret things that way. But the symbolism exists nonetheless.

of course you can interpret things on hand of baseless assumptions...and get your symbolism.

He was lift up because of all he has accomplished.

it makes no sense for the catalyst to lift you up.
But it makes total sense that the crucible does it´s job it was designed for.

Delicious irony.

[ZLurps]

Ieldra2 wrote...

I don't think this has been discussed before, and only now do I feel detached enough to discuss it without going on an incoherent rant.

Shepard's collapse at the control panel on the Citadel is, by a very big margin, my most hated moment in the game. And here is why: this moment not only symbolizes that Shepard can't succeed without help, no, combined with the elevator lift initiated by the Catalyst it symbolizes that he needs help by a god-like presence. I am not averse to Shepard needing help. I would have accepted help by any human, turian, geth, asari etc.. etc..., even the Illusive Man. But I absolutely *hate* the suggestion that "divine" help is needed to enact a solution.

Of course I can interpret the Catalyst in a different way, and I do. I refuse to grant it the authority the symbolism suggests, as I would never grant anyone or anything such authority, but nonetheless the symbolism is there and to me it was pretty blatant. If anything, this moment alone came close to make Mass Effect - the whole trilogy - "not my story".

I would like to see how others think about this moment. Please note that this has absolutely nothing to do with the Catalyst's reasoning and the options it presents, which I can accept.  

It's odd piece.

Simplest explanation, I guess, would be that they just tried to create tension. Myself, I also concider it some sort of alternate ending scenario, what if Shepard died just there? Fade to black, (inset some seconds here) credits rolling.

Other possibility it might be that writers wanted to put some sort of idea there, that after all, despite the best efforts, sometimes plain dumb luck is needed.

That said, I can't dismiss your theory. It might be the right one, speculations...

[Tealjaker94]

maaaze wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

@maaze:
Of course you can interpret things that way. But the symbolism exists nonetheless.

of course you can interpret things on hand of baseless assumptions...and get your symbolism.

He was lift up because of all he has accomplished.

it makes no sense for the catalyst to lift you up.
But it makes total sense that the crucible does it´s job it was designed for.

The crucible was designed to take you to the catalyst, who no one knows about and is in a place no organic has been? Odd, I thought it was just a power source like the game tells us.

Modifié par Tealjaker94, 24 juillet 2012 - 08:22 .

[Armass81]

Symbolism!

Modifié par Armass81, 24 juillet 2012 - 08:23 .

[o Ventus]

maaaze wrote...

for the last time ...the crucible lifts him up...not the catalyst!

why is that so hard to understand?

So the Crucible (that isn't even physically touching the Citadel, mind you) is what lifts him up to the Catalyst's room?

wat

[Taboo]

The one thing that rustles my jimmies more than certain types of aesthetics is forced symbolism. Hammering in symbolism is a great way to tell me that you've run out of ideas and have no idea what the **** you're doing.

In an attempt at being smart, you throw in a reference to Religion or something. It isn't smart because we've seen it a million times.

[dorktainian]

and here i thought he just passed out......

[Mazebook]

The Angry One wrote...

maaaze wrote...

who knows...you go there were you needed to be.. but it was designed to be near the spot where the beam takes you...which makes sense because if the reapers already took the citadel they close the arms and activate the beam. and if not ...you don´t need the lift.

Yeah you realise that's yet another happy coincidence. Oh look the harvesting beam takes you directly to the same level as the auxilary control console for the entire Citadel. What a stroke of providence!

Gee it sure is lucky the Reapers didn't decide to send people anywhere else, like into a blending machine.

statement makes no sense...the designers build the crucible with the citadel in mind. or did you miss that?

And yet they didn't know the Citadel was the key component. Eh?

And yet they didn't know the Citadel was the key component. Eh? 

i am astonished how much you missed in this game.
How do you know that the Citadel is the Catalyst?...yes through the Prothean A.I. !...and how does it know that?...through the designers.

The different designers decided at one point that the Citadel was the necessery key component.

Yeah you realise that's yet another happy coincidence. Oh look the harvesting beam takes you directly to the same level as the auxilary control console for the entire Citadel. What a stroke of providence! 

like i said thousand times before...reapers are arrogant...they are not suspecting anyone alive could get through...it is kind of their character trait to underestimate organics and Shaperd for that matter.

why the beam is set up that way...who knows...why should I care? Why is the human reaper hanging on four tubes...why not 12...why aren´t there any turrets...why does the plattform even takes them there...why does saren try to strangle Shepard instead of shooting him/her...

[legion999]

maaaze wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

maaaze wrote...

for the last time ...the crucible lifts him up...not the catalyst!

why is that so hard to understand?

The crucible activates a lift in one part of the citadel that takes you to another part of the citadel? How odd.

yes...really strange concept that a device would bring you to the room where you can enable its functions.

Wait I thought it was just a power source?

[The Angry One]

maaaze wrote...

i am astonished how much you missed in this game.
How do you know that the Citadel is the Catalyst?...yes through the Prothean A.I. !...and how does it know that?...through the designers.

The different designers decided at one point that the Citadel was the necessery key component.

No. Vendetta says the Protheans determined this on their own. Guess what? The Protheans weren't the designers.

why the beam is set up that way...who knows...why should I care? Why is the human reaper hanging on four tubes...why not 12...why aren´t there any turrets...why does the plattform even takes them there...

It's an important element that's never answered satisfactorily.

why does saren try to strangle Shepard instead of shooting him/her...

Because Saren sees potential in Shepard and would rather convince them of the truth as he sees it.
Did you not pay attention to anything Saren says?

[Ieldra]

dorktainian wrote...
and here i thought he just passed out......

He did just pass out.

The question is: why did the writers make him pass out? Why did they, without any need, reduce Shepard's agency to zero at this point? Why didn't Shepard reach the console and press the button that would lift him up before he collapsed? You can be sure this wasn't just done on a whim.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 24 juillet 2012 - 08:32 .

[o Ventus]

legion999 wrote...

maaaze wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

maaaze wrote...

for the last time ...the crucible lifts him up...not the catalyst!

why is that so hard to understand?

The crucible activates a lift in one part of the citadel that takes you to another part of the citadel? How odd.

yes...really strange concept that a device would bring you to the room where you can enable its functions.

Wait I thought it was just a power source?

It's very obviously a microphone. I mean, haven't you ever taken a look at it from cutscene view?

[CINCTuchanka]

The point is to make you, the player, think Shepard is dead. And then he/she is not and OMG SURPRISE SPESHBEBBY TIEMS.

Not much in the way of intended symbolism methinks. Don't stress too much trying to read into it.

[Taboo]

I won't lie. The sexual nature of the scene reminded me of a discussion of 2001 I once had.

Kubrick made the space stations look that way intentionally as to inspire those thoughts.

All I see is a giant phallus docking at port and then firing a different colored beam when tickled enough.

[TMA LIVE]

Ieldra2 wrote...

I don't think this has been discussed before, and only now do I feel detached enough to discuss it without going on an incoherent rant.

Shepard's collapse at the control panel on the Citadel is, by a very big margin, my most hated moment in the game. And here is why: this moment not only symbolizes that Shepard can't succeed without help, no, combined with the elevator lift initiated by the Catalyst it symbolizes that he needs help by a god-like presence. I am not averse to Shepard needing help. I would have accepted help by any human, turian, geth, asari etc.. etc..., even the Illusive Man. But I absolutely *hate* the suggestion that "divine" help is needed to enact a solution.

Of course I can interpret the Catalyst in a different way, and I do. I refuse to grant it the authority the symbolism suggests, as I would never grant anyone or anything such authority, but nonetheless the symbolism is there and to me it was pretty blatant. If anything, this moment alone came close to make Mass Effect - the whole trilogy - "not my story".

I would like to see how others think about this moment. Please note that this has absolutely nothing to do with the Catalyst's reasoning and the options it presents, which I can accept.  

Everyone's a critic.

[CINCTuchanka]

Taboo-XX wrote...

I won't lie. The sexual nature of the scene reminded me of a discussion of 2001 I once had.

Kubrick made the space stations look that way intentionally as to inspire those thoughts.

All I see is a giant phallus docking at port and then firing a different colored beam when tickled enough.

And here I thought that the Citadel was the phallus.  I guess one could construe it to be something else.  And the result...my god...

This means that in synthesis Shepard is spreading his space-seed to the entire galaxy to make them cyborgs.

[RavenEyry]

Taboo-XX wrote...

All I see is a giant phallus docking at port and then firing a different colored beam when tickled enough.

Or when someone leaps into its... stream.

[Mazebook]

o Ventus wrote...

maaaze wrote...

for the last time ...the crucible lifts him up...not the catalyst!

why is that so hard to understand?

So the Crucible (that isn't even physically touching the Citadel, mind you) is what lifts him up to the Catalyst's room?

wat

that isn't even physically touching the Citadel, mind you

WHAT????

okay...you clearly were doing something else when you played that game...because you keep making stuff up.

the arms of the crucible are clearly stretching and the crucible docks...it even makes aloud PHUM [00:42 sec.] noise.

It interacts with the citadel...it is common sense that it activates the lift by touch....

[TMA LIVE]

Ieldra2 wrote...

dorktainian wrote...
and here i thought he just passed out......

He did just pass out.

The question is: why did the writers make him pass out? Why did they, without any need, reduce Shepard's agency to zero at this point? Why didn't Shepard reach the console and press the button that would lift him up before he collapsed? You can be sure this wasn't just done on a whim.

The point of Shepard passing out, is to go somewhere where no one has ever gone before, and witness something that only he would see before his death. At least, if it's not in Shepard head. That or Shepard is taken somewhere where he's going to be hooked up by Keepers, so he came make choices with the Catalyst.

Don't like the idea of Shepard talking to a Godish character in a Heaven environment? Everyone's a critic.